Unfortunately most voters are not informed. They vote for something if it says recommended by the planning board or selectmen or whatever. I stood outside talking to voters years ago and was shocked at how little they knew about what they were voting for. Zoning amendments are particularly difficult unless you have studied before hand because for instance if they are recommending a change, it doesn't tell you what it is changing from. In this case, it has been publicly discusses enough so the voters know what they are voting for and therefore the big turnout.

Yes, they are little, small, selfish, cliques. Although using the word click is understood.

Now back to the HUB status and the associated adjunct of SB2.

Who is paying for all of those mailings sent to homes in Moultonborough?

As learned in early 1970's: follow the money.

The Friends of the Moultonborough Community Center (FOTMCC)

https://quickstart.sos.nh.gov/online...inessID=714337

Hub and Companies in that Business
 

I did a quick search and found at least 8 companies in the business of running facilities like they are proposing for the Hub. If there is such a need for that type of facility, why aren't they working with the sponsors of this article, or fighting each other to build such a facility here?

Moultonborough knows better than anyone else how to do things. Logic and rational thinking does not exist here. Only wants for the residents survive that get paid for by the majority of non-resident lakefront people that bankroll 70% of everything.

This. People give up from exhaustion but the zealots have never ending energy and if it comes up enough times it will pass eventually.

Please let us know how it goes today!

Just got to Town Meeting. Still room in the auditorium and was able to park on the school property. No chaos yet but it’s not supposed to start for an hour.

Any update?

Six minutes to start time. Unknown if it will start on time.

What was the vote ?

How many people are there, would you guess?

No vote yet. Article 2 is being presented. Then debate then secret ballot box open for an hour so we are a long way from voting on the HUB.

No idea as to attendance numbers. Auditorium is full and there are quite a few people in the gym and the cafeteria.

Debate ended on the Hub at 6:47 so ballot box is open until 7:47. Article 3, SB 2 is now on the floor.

This is riveting—thanks for the live updates!

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Surely you jest.

SB 2 is being voted.

Actually, no—I'm interested to see where this goes...and how my taxes change as a result.

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Updates?
 

Any results?

The HUB failed. 990 votes total. No 546. Yes. 444 Hub needed 60% or 594 so they fell short by 150 votes. The Hubbers will be back next year I am sure. 👍👍
But they have yet again failed.

Congrats to all who voted voted No
Thank you


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They did not even get a majority ����

SB 2 did not pass. Your reporter is signing off now 😊

Time for a new Petition Warrant Article stating no more voting articles for any recreation complex for 10 years.

Insensitive clods
 

I wish we could do that….they have been pursuing this community center for 16 years…..and each time it’s way more expensive and grandiose. They’re very dense in that they fail to realize that the majority of taxpayers aren’t buying. What is so infuriating to me right now is that they are blind to the effects inflation and other factors are having right now…not only blind, but extremely insensitive to their neighbors.
By the way, that turned into 6 hours from start to finish. We left home at 3:15 so we could snag a decent parking spot, and registration started at 3:30 for a 6:00 meeting. We got home at 9:30. Long day…..sorry SB2 failed to resonate with enough voters.

150 votes isn't a ton to lose by, so I can't help but think the Hub proponents will feel emboldened (or at least not dissuaded).

That also seems like a super low voter turnout for something that could significantly affect taxes. Does anyone know what the registered voter count is in Moultonborough?

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Winni, thank you so much for the updates. It was very interesting. That's still a decent defeat. I am sorry SB2 didn't pass. I think townspeople are against it, but once they have it, they seem to like it better.

A big thank you to all voted against the HUB, from those of us who pay the highest taxes and can’t vote.

Maybe the “ hubbers” can add an indoor golf course next time so can get price up to 30m. Glad it failed

I'm sure this will surface again next year because the HUB proponents just don't seem to want to take no for an answer.

Not being an eligible voter I didn't bother watching any of the meeting since I'm going to get a bill regardless of what was said and how the vote turned out.

What I wonder is if there's any thought by the HUB people of taking their proposal and dropping the two pools from the mix. I don't know what that would do to both the initial cost estimate as well as the ongoing operating expenses but I've got to believe it would drop considerably. Not sure if that swings more votes to yes if the cost is more reasonable but on the flip side that makes some of the yes votes go to no because people that don't have as much tax skin in the game are looking to get a cheap (to them) place to swim.

To respond to a question from Think:

Moultonborough has somewhere around 5,000 registered voters. At the Town Election on May 8, 2023 (where Town Officers are elected, among other items), there were about 1,374 ballots cast. This is the election where the polls are open all day and there is the opportunity to vote by absentee ballot. At the Town Meeting on June 1, the highest number of votes cast was 990 (on the HUB). Rounding up to 1,000 people present at Town Meeting is an historic high. Previously, the highest number voting at Town Meeting was 2019 where there were about 650. So the number present at Town Meeting was in my view very high since historically more people vote in the Town Elections than at Town Meeting. The fact that the HUB failed to achieve even a majority of the 990, let alone the fact that the proposal fell 150 votes short of the 60% required, given the extensive effort to convince voters to approve the Taj Mahal is in my opinion a significant defeat for the Hubbers. Unfortunately I do not know of any way that one Town Meeting can restrict what happens at a future Town Meeting, so like the proverbial Hydra, we can expect more efforts to wear down the opposition and shove this thing down the throats of the Moultonborough taxpayers, especially those who own property and are not eligible to vote.

150 votes out of 990 is actually a landslide by most pundits. But after all this effort will they do it again? Only time will tell but this is also a very divisive issue that hopefully the Hubbers will let the wounds heal.

Thoughts while Shaving - "The HUB"
 

So the "go for it all" philosophy of 2020 killed this.

Remember these take-aways

* On the two previous votes, more than 50% of the voters were in favor. For this one it was only 45%. - learn from this.

* This project was destined for failure in 2020, you just didn't know it yet. The $5.5M First-Phase project (track, courts, rooms, etc) that could have been expanded in the future, that the Selectmen voted in favor of, back in 2020, was the lost opportunity. By organizing the "I want it all" $7.3 M project and putting it in THE SAME town meeting, and with the Selectmen voting against it - was your undoing. Not only did your option go down, the $5.5M project still got >50% of voters. If your voters had also voted for it, the town would have easily reached the 66% threshold. The cost would have been a 10-yr bond at 1.3%. If you had gone for your additional needs in a second phase today, you may well have succeeded.

* It will be years now before you get the economic conditions AND the positive reception by the town that will make this project possible.

No joke - As I sat there, the HUB people gave us a project that was well-planned. All the "i"s dotted and "t"s crossed, very good. These folks were honest and forthright, had no desire to name-call, etc.... Embarrassingly, the other side was not so civil.

But-be-that-as-it-may, Just keep in mind that the answer to this is NO, will likely continue to be NO, and if you don't change your plan it will be like Groundhog Day...

Well said and completely agree.

It's only 150 votes but that's 15 percent.

Watching from the outside
 

A quick Google shows a population of 4189 in 2019. Enter the pandemic and it jumps to 5091 in 2021. HUGE. Where did these folks come from and what are they used to voting for?

As of June 2021 the NH Secretary of State shows 4615 registered voters
DeM:1001,Rep: 1089 Undeclared: 1805. 1000 at Town meeting is good turnout, but there are a lot of hidden voters just waiting to be led by the hand.

Presidential elections usually get the highest turnout and M'borugh had 1987 for Trump and 1605 for Biden in 2020 total 3592 (NY Times)

Anybody giving odds for/against the HUB next time around?

A more modest proposal could have won
 

I agree with Cal to NH - a more scaled down proposal could have carried the day - especially with a reduced threshold of 60% vs. the previous 66%. In an attempt to provide all things to each constituent group, the project grew beyond what the majority of voters could stomach. Most everyone agrees the Lion's Club building needs replacement. And if the Town cares to make sure our kids can learn to swim (as was stated in the proposal for the pool), why not redouble our efforts to teach swimming in the summer time at the Town Beach?
I am sorry if the HUB proponents felt disparaged by the opponents. They put a lot of thought and effort into their proposal and should be recognized for their work. It will be interesting to see if they "read the room" and scale down a future proposal to better meet the most compelling need of replacing the Lion's Club. I guess time will tell. If they persist in bringing back a larger proposal, I fear townspeople will really dig their heels in again with another strong no vote.

Hogwash !

No, most do not believe that the Lion's Club building needs replacement.

The Lion's Club buildiing was properly constructed. The building is perfectly fine for its intended use.

One person's hogwash is another person's belief
 

In my conversations with many residents who voted against the HUB, most agreed that the Lion's Club should be replaced. You may disagree but that is my experience and also how our two no votes would turn to yes (assuming it is a more practical design). The town has three gyms and a declining school population. Just my opinion but the town could do a better job of utilizing current facilities for recreational use without the need of another gym.

Lions Club Replacement
 

A plan for replacing the Lion's Club needs to emanate from the Selectmen. The actual needs, need to be identified, and a proposal outlining all costs and issues developed. Sitting in the auditorium last night next to some people with expertise in excavation and building last night, their input was the proposed land the Lions Club is on has wetland issues and could require more extensive work than was included in the presentation last night.

We don't need another click petition for the building of a Moultonborough Taj Mahal.

I also agree with another poster, the usage of the current gyms and other facilities needs to be evaluated to see if they could be better leveraged.