I would have to disagree on this. It does work, or at least it did in my case. I was subject to a DB check last year. My average pass was around 84 db vs the 82 db standard. I was surprised considering I had a stock Corsa exhaust, and they are guaranteed to meet all state requirements. I went back to the boathouse, took apart my exhaust, and found I had a couple of broken baffles. Replaced them and did some other work, and voila, retested at 78 db.

What I think we do need is some sort of voluntary db check by the MP. If you think the 82 db limit is too high, propose a change to your state reps (if you're a resident).

Most people, I'm sure, want to be in compliance, but like me, don't realize they aren't, and have no way of knowing.

My message to all is simple, let's try to do some constructive things instead of bashing. Get involved in local boating organizations. I for one belong to two, and probably spend 10 hours a week (in the summer) volunteering my time to boater saftey and education efforts. Like the old Black Panther saying (I know I'm dating myself), you're either part of the problem or part of the solution. Pick a side.

Lakes Region Sail & Power Squadron
 

Welcome to Anylake USA. If you venture to ANY decent lake in the US from Lake of the Ozarks to my home lake of Lake Maloney in Central Nebraska you will find the same complaint (never seen a boat over 24 feet on maloney), heck even in some respects on the Missouri river where I have done some boating. May be new to your lake but not to most others. Not saying it isn't an issue, just saying it's not unique by any means.

What I have found for example is at LOTO if you want to ski on memorial day you do it before 10am or after 8pm, the rest of the day hit a cove, the waterpark, golf course or whatever.

You want to limit boat traffic, limit all infrastructure and waterfront development, if you can't get a burger, build a cabin or get gas on the lake it will really cut down on boat traffic.

Interesting comments, my 22 foot stingray will do 60 MPH and with its alpha drive and through prop exhaust makes very little noise. I fail to see a connection of speed and excessive noise. If you want to connect something connect unmuffled exhaust with noise not speed. 2 different issues. I can tell you the Hendrick motor in Jeff Gordon’s Nextel cup car makes a lot of noise at 40 MPH a lot more than my pickup. Main (not only) difference? Muffler. If a boat is traveling at 100 MPH but only produce say 82dbs does that solve your noise problem? Can you live with that?

Playing devils advocate, you don't drive a moped on the interstate. Maybe larger bodies of water need to be reserved for larger or faster boats and smaller lakes for smaller boats. I know numerous smaller lakes here in NE that limit HP or even require electric motors, but it isn't the larger lakes. OR maybe the lake should be closed at certain times of the day to powered vessels of any kind. Then the canoes and sailboats can have their time on it and the power sports people can have their time. Lake of the Ozarks has no daytime speed limit but does at night. In the 2 1/2 years I lived there most problems we had were with alcohol and rental boats/jet ski operators not knowing the rules of the road. On guy parked his 40ft sea ray on the Porta Cima Golf course in the middle of the night. He wasn’t speeding, just drinking and a couple of gals that were not his wife onboard distracted him. Does that mean we ban all Sea-Rays because he parked his boat on the 14th green? Nope we sent him to jail for being an idiot, I am sure his wife also inflicted some monetary pain on him too.

Kind of funny, several years ago the Nebraska Game and Parks were fielding numerous complaints that there were too many canoes on our 22 miles of scenic Niobrara river. Get that too many Canoes!!! Not noise, to many frigging canoes!!!! Now they are complaining that canoes are no longer a problem but inner tube are??? I still go and canoe it twice a year but now we do it on a Sunday instead of Saturday. That way we avoid the crowed. They can still have their fun and we still have ours.

If you want to limit what happens on your lake maybe you should live on a private lake? I am not trying to be an ass either, I considered a lot at Lake Panorama in Central Iowa which is a large private lake. you have to own property to use it, check it out

http://www.lakepanorama.org/memberinfo.html

If you live on a public lake then you should understand that the public gets to use it how they see fit. I don't relish the bass boats at 5:30 AM running up and down the lake but that is part of living on a PUBLIC body of water. If I want to get away from the public I go out to the farm and sit in the middle of the 200 acres and it's real peaceful.

But hey those thoughts are just an opinion..and you know what they say.... ;)

And you don’t drive Indy race cars on the Interstate either.

There are other large lakes with hp or speed limits. What about the two largest bodies of water in Massachusetts? Quabbin Reservoir has a 25 hp limit and boating is prohibited completely on Wachusett Reservoir. What about Squam Lake (the second largest lake in NH) with a 40 MPH speed limit? What about Lake George, NY, which has a 45MPH speed limit?


In NH any lake over 10 acres is a public body of water, so that would only leave very small lakes as possible private ones. That’s pretty small for any type of boating. (I cover 15 to 20 miles in my kayak in 3 or 4 hours of paddling.)

Having regulations on a lake is not an attempt to “get away from the public”. It’s done so that everyone (or at least as many as possible) can safely enjoy using the lake together. Laws are made (or rather should be made) for the good of the majority.

Party Favors, anyone???
 

Well Von, you don't have to go that far to make your point. As a matter of fact, every summer just a few miles to the northeast of the big Lake we have a huge boating problem. GFBLs out of control? Loud exhausts at 3 am? Nope, just raucous canoers & tubers raising hell all night long on the Saco River between Conway & Fryeberg. Police being called in all hours of the day & night, and not a single internal combustion engine anywhere to be found!

That's it! Its not the boat, its the operators....gee, where have we heard that before??? :confused:

I don't know about the other facts , but this is wrong. It's 45 and it's smaller than Winnipesaukee :rolleye1:

Sorry, that was a typo, which I've since corrected. Yes, Lake George is smaller than Winni, but it's still a large lake with a speed limit, which is what we were discussing. My other facts are correct . . . look them up, rather than try to discredit my entire post, do to one typing error.

Perhaps not, but you can drive a Corvette C5/C6, Porsche 911, Ferrari F430, etc (all are capable of speeds in excess of 175). An Indy car isn't street legal. A typical performance boat passes all NH requirements.

Your point?

My point was that comparing mopeds on the Interstate to smaller or slower boats on a large lake, isn't all that different from comparing performance boats to an Indy race cars.

And Interstates do have a speed limit, so those performance cars can't legally drive at their top speeds of 175 mph, can they? Notice that the speed limits don't prevent performance cars from driving on them either, any more than a speed limit on Winni would prevent performance boats from still using the lake.

You guys are the ones comparing Winni to the Interstate, even though there's really no valid comparison between the two. Hello? ... one is for high speed transportation and the other is for recreation.

I'm just standing up for paddlers, trying to balance things out here a bit, as this thread has become very one-sided. And my kayak is ocean capable ... it's not a short recreational kayak, but is a 15.5' long, narrow, expensive sea kayak, designed for large bodies of water. I follow the rules, have the proper clothing and equipment, and know how to navagate, using charts and a deck-mounted compass. I resent having my kayak compared to a moped.

Hasn't this item been removed from the menu?
 

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the webmaster close the thread on speed limits? :confused:

Remember, the speed limit bill (HB 162) never even made it out of committee. There will be no more talk of this subject in the legislature until/or at least next year. :)

Perhaps we should follow their lead and move on from the subject too???

Anyway, your appetite may vary....so....

Bon apetit! :liplick:

Comparing Apples to Oranges?
 

Evenstar, you can't compare Quabbin & Wachusett resevoirs to a lake like Winni, Squam or any other lake that allows public recreation. Quabbin has always had those restrictions ever since the 4 towns were evacuated & the resevoir was created(its manmade) The same is probably true for Wachusett. Cochickewick in North Andover only allows fishing from shore, Massabesic in Auburn allows boating & fishing but no swimming.

The restrictions on those bodies of water & many others are for different reasons other than what we are discussing here. They were never intended to be used for public recreation. That is not a good or fair comparison.

Just because some other lake has a speed limit or some kind of restrictions does not mean it was right, was needed or that it can be compared to Winni. Every lake has its own individual characteristics. Maybe Lake George had a small but powerful group of individuals with disproportionate influence & didn't like GFBL boats & they were successful at getting a speed limit passed. Does not mean it was needed or that it should have passed. Just because Lake Goerge passed a speed limit law does not mean the NH legislature shoudl also. Also Lake George is very narrow & does not have the wide expanse we have in the Broads & this could contribute to making it very congested.

I know I will have alot of disagreement here but in my opinion Winni is not nearly as congested as many posters would lead you to believe. Its my opinion that some people will purposely say congestion is heavy to lend support to the speed limit bill. But I also believe some do not purposely do this, its just that everyones definition of congested is not the same.

It find it interesting that just about any boating discussion turns into a debate over speed limits on the lake. In reality, we currently have speed limits (albeit subjective ones). Either people are unaware, or choose to be so.

It is unlawfull to:

Overtake another vessel at a distance and speed such that your wake causes danger or damage.

No vessel shall be operated within New Hampshire in a reckless or negligent manner. Examples of reckless or careless operation include: Excessive speed in regulated or congested areas ...

If the above we consistantly enforced, a speed limit would seem redundant.

Just my .02

Paugus, I agree with you. However, in my opinion the reason that is not good enough has been alluded to in the numerous threads & posts on this subject, albeit indirectly.

I believe the speed limit supporters do not like the noise of the GFBL boats & they are not happy with the current noise ordinances so they are using the speed limit bill to hopefully deter owners of GFBL boats from operating on Winni. I guess they figure if they can not go faster than 45 mph they will go somewhere else. However, since enforcement will be a nightmare for various & obvious reasons GFBL owners will probably still come to Winni knowing they will probably not get caught going 60-65 or what ever speed over 45 mph & on the rare occasion they do they will either fight the ticket or pay it, no big deal.

Secondly, I believe the speed limit supporters do not think GFBL boats belong on a pristine, beautiful MT lake. It represents in their mind all the things they came to Winni to get away from. They just don't like them.

I also believe that when people read about all the alleged close calls that are posted here(I believe this is exaggerated) they automatically think that a GFBL boat was involved. There had to be a GFBL boat involved, look how fast they go. When in reality that is not the case.

I think its more about these issues & maybe others than about speed.

Propeller,

Guess you're probably be right. I'm sure it runs much deeper than speed limits.

Interesting though, I can't recall any proposed legislation to reduce the DB level down from the current 82 DB (less than motorcycles). New Hampshire, by the way, has one of the lowest DB requirements of any state. Many states are either at 90 DB or have no limit.

NASBLA see page 25 of the report (interesting reading).

Funny how antique / classic boats (which I love by the way), with straight through exhaust (which typically are allowed to run at 86 DB), sound nostalgic, a performance boat sounds loud :rolleye2:

Hey, I didn't start the speed limit issue in this thread, but was just responding to other posts.

SO GET OFF MY CASE! And stop trying to make me look bad by quoting a chopped up version of my post.

Pardon, but I don't believe I mentioned you, or anyone else. I was referring to the general trend of this thread and others.

If you re-read my post, I said, "I find it interesting that just about any boating discussion turns into a debate over speed limits on the lake. "

No names were mentioned. Geez, why do you take it personally? :confused:

Evanstar your points are well taken and I don't have a dog in this fight, heck you can ban everything from the lake that doesn't have feathers and webbed feet and it will not bother me.

My points really aren't about speed but tolerance to allow people with different ideas of recreation to enjoy a large lake. And also that speed and noise are not as closely related as some lead you to believe, you can address one or the other separately.

In my world (see post #1 for definition of opinion) with large bodies of water, due to the lack of them, I personally think you have to be more tolerant to the general publics usage. Again, I rarely keep my canoe at the cabin at Lake of the Ozarks because that just isn't the place for it. At one time when my parents when down there in the late 30's and early 40's it was but not anymore unless you want to rise early and be on and off the lake before the crowds.

Finally, if a speed limit is imposed (separate from noise) I sell my 38 foot 12,000 lb boat and plod around the lake at 30 MPH in my 39 foot sea ray 30,000 lb boat and we start the discussions about wakes and how cruisers and diesel smoke are killing the lake. Large boat wakes (and condo development) are the issue we are dealing with at Lake of the Ozarks. Some want a size limit, some a displacement limit, me, I just bought a boat that allows me to go out on the lake no matter how rough rather than try to restrict how other people enjoy the lake. If they do ban boats over a certian size, I won't support it but still no problem I'll downsize or bring one of the other boats and sit it on the lift.

I try to respect everyone opinion and go by the platnum rule...

I was responding only to restauranteer's post, where he quoted me. If you re-read my post, you would see that I quoted him and not you. His post was obviously directed at me.

My post was a reply only to what Von Bongo wrote I was just pointing out that there really are other large lakes that do have regulations on hp and/or speed. I do understand that every lake is unique, which is why there are different regulations for different lakes.

I do find it interesting that the two largest lakes in MA have very strick regulations on their use (for whatever reason), yet some of the people who make the most noise against any additional regulations on Winni are from that same state.

I've always wanted to try that place
 

Perhaps, but I do find it interesting that some of the people making the most noise for additional regulations have never been to Winni:

From your second forum post April 2, 2005:

I do believe you are sincere in your opinions, but perhaps a few visits to the Lake this summer and an actual observation of what the true problems may be could lead to a more informed opinion....

Evenstar, my apologies. The heat must be getting to me ;)

I'm not for banning anyone from the lake. I've stated that before, several times. I have nothing against power boats, as long as they obey the boating rules and that they respect my right to use the lake also.

How much tolerance am I as a kayaker supposed to have? Am I to just accept that I can't use the main lake, for fear of being run over? All I've tried to say is that I have just as much right to safely use the main lake as anyone. But that right is being taken away. Have I even once complained about noise? I don't like excessive noise, but it's my safety and my right to use the lake that I'm more concerned about.

I also just "bought a boat that allows me to go out on the lake no matter how rough". But my new boat is a 15.5' sea kayak.

Apology accepted. :)

Evenstar, did you read my post responding to your comparison of Quabbin & Wachusett resevoir? NO, it is not interesting that those large bodies of water are heavily restricted. Quabbin was manmade in the 1930's specically to provide drinking water to the greater Boston area. There was never any inten tion to use it for a wide range of recreational purposes. Thats true of most drinking water resevoirs that I am familiar with, they are heavily restricted not because of issues like we have at Winni but because they used for completely different purposes.

And NO, your right to use any part of Winni is not being taken away. You may choose not to exercise that right because YOU may not feel safe. That does not mean you are not safe, only that you perceive it is not safe. You already stated in your first post you did not feel safe on a lake that does have a speed limit, so what is to be done next?

The question is: Is representation needed?
 

You may find yourself a day late and a dollar short... :eek:

That's does it!
 

I'm joining the NHRBA. Does anyone know when these hearings take place?
http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/4393470/detail.html

Over Kill!
 

How many boats on the lake can do 80-90MPH?

I don't rememeber seeing many boats going over 40MPH its the slow huge crusiers that throw the BIG wakes not the Fountains, Well Crafts, Formulas, Bajas......

You can pass all the laws you want but if they cannot be enforced what good are they?

Yes, I did read your post. I was just trying to avoid an argument, but since you insist, here are some actual facts: Lake Mead and Lake Powell are the two largest man made reservoirs in the United States and they providing drinking water for the residents of Phoenix, Las Vegas, and Los Angeles. Yet they are also used for recreational boating. Dillon Reservoir is also man made and is the largest water storage facility in the Denver Water system. It also allows recreational boating. Lake McConaughy is a manmade reservoir and the largest body of water in the state of Nebraska. And it also allows recreational boating. The list goes on and on. Modesto Reservoir, Loch Lomond Reservoir in CA, and Buffalo Bill Reservoir in WY are more examples.

In fact forty-five states permit recreational boating use on drinking water lakes, rivers and reservoirs. So, the fact is that most man made reservoirs actually do allow recreational boating. You just have to have a more expensive water treatment filtering system to use the water for drinking. And some states only permit boats using MTBE free fuel.


Is it safe to paddle my kayak across a lake where boats travel back and forth at 75 mph and faster? And some of you on this forum have even admitted that you have trouble seeing kayaks. If you can’t see me until you get close to me, can you guarantee that you’ll be able to avoid me, when you are traveling at 110 feet per second? No you can’t. So this is not something that is just perceived as being unsafe. It is unsafe. And if I cannot safely use the main lake, my rights to kayaking on the main lake have been essentially taken away.

I'm not talking about the 45 states that do allow recreational boating on their resevoirs, I'm talking about the 2 you felt you had to use as a comparison simply because they are the largest in Massachusetts which is totally irrelevant to our topic of discussion here. They are restricted for different reasons.

If boaters keep 150" of distance from you, you are safe. If a boater is going under the proposed 45 mph speed limit & travel too close(inside the 150' required by law) you may not be safe & the speed limit is irrelevant.

And seeing kayakers is only difficult if they do not wear more visible colors which you claim you do so theres no issue there. If you don't its only more difficult to see, that does not mean you can not be seen.

And please don't say you are trying to avoid an argument. You have been heavily involved in the debate for some time now.

Point taken
 

I agree with you GTXrider. It is the big cruisers that you have to watch out for. And they also create erosion of the shore line.

Evenstar. Don't tell me you never been awamp by the waves from the big cruisers doing 20 mph. You might as well ban all powerboats from the lake. Including the Mt Washington. I hope you are not one of those damn kayakers that are out after dark without any form of a light. I had my share of those! Lets ban ALL watercraft! :(

The Citizen article says people are scared to boat on the lake & tourist dollars are being lost. If thats so then how come so many posters on this forum are complaining about the lake being crowded with boaters? I don't see how both can be true. Either the lake is crowded & therefore those boaters are not scared & they are spending tourist dollars or the lake is not crowded & limiting the number of boats as some have suggested is not needed & there are not alot of close calls as others have suggested(just can't be supported if the lake is not crowded). Which is it?

Actually I've never been swamped by any large boat that was obeying the NH boating regulations. And I've only been swamped once by a large boat and that boat came way to close to me at a fairly fast speed, so I never had a chance to position my kayak properly. I have a long sea kayak, so the wakes don't bother me unless they are right on top of me. It's high speeds, with the possiblilty of being hit that concerns me.

I don't kayak after dark. And I always carry a waterproof headlamp (with a strobe) just in case I have a major problem which delays me and I happen to end up on a lake after dark.

I've said many times that I'm not out to ban anyone, just that I support regulations that will help make this lake safer for everyone.

I responded to Von Bongo's post, where he said "I know numerous smaller lakes here in NE that limit HP or even require electric motors, but it isn't the larger lakes". I gave Quabbin and Wachusett Reservoir, Squam Lakeand Lake George as just some examples of larger lakes that have limits on speed or hp.
Then you stated that "most drinking water resevoirs that I am familiar with, they are heavily restricted not because of issues like we have at Winni but because they used for completely different purposes." And my reply gave the facts that most drinking water supplies are also used for recreational boating. So how are Quabbin and Wachusett Reservoir "totally irrelevant to our topic of discussion here"?

I've explained this one many times. Apparently you just don't accept my views on this.

It's been stated by others here that kayaks can be difficult to see, due to the waves, not just because of their colors. If I'm difficult to see, I'm obviously at more risk of being hit by boats that are traveling at a fast speed. Again, this is basic physics.

I'm only trying to give the non-powerboat side here, as this thread is a discussion about the possible need of a new boating organization, which would protect the right of all boaters, not just powerboaters. How meaningful is a discussion, if only one side is represented?

The reason that I didn't respond to your other post was that I honestly didn't want to agrue with you. That's the truth. You come across as an argumentive person to me. You give your opinions as gospel, and then just ignore the facts, or try to twist them around when you are proven wrong. Just as you did in your last reply to me. So I'm not going to argue with you. There's a difference between arguing and discussing. You need to learn the difference.

evenstar
 

I'm back , I just find it funny how you can talk about the facts when you have never been to the lake before . :emb: :laugh:

Where did you get the idea that I've never been to Winni? I only live an hour away and I've been to the lake plenty of times. I've just never kayaked on it before ... mostly because I just took up kayaking last spring. My family has been in NH for many generations. My grandparents boated on Winni, when they lived in Laconia.

I presented actual facts, and if you don't believe me, look up what I posted. I didn't make any of that up. I find it funny how some of you try to discredit me, just because you can't out debate me.

This is supposed to be a discussion about a new boater's organization ... for supposedly all boaters, yet it appears that only the views of powerboaters are welcome here.

Representation or not...
 

Wonder why you never kayak after dark or 1/2 hour before - your kayak lack proper lighting?!

The purpose of this thread is to seek interest in a boating organization that would be representative of a majority of Lake boaters; not a chat room posting for your entertainment.

Please, state your opinion regarding the purpose of this thread and move on to another post. The repetition of your non-thread opining is growing old.

P.S.- Perhaps Concord needs to mandate a masted flag on all kayaks and canoes on the Lake - all the better to see you! :eek:

Hey, I was just replying to a post which was directed at me! Am I not permitted to do that? BTW: Proper lighting is available for kayaks, so if I wanted to kayak at night, I would be able to do so legally.

So exacty what does your post have to do with this thread?

Take a wild guess...
 

Now, start your own thread about kayaking and how long you have been in the Lake region and your improper emergency backup plan if kayaking on the Lake after dark, please, for your sake - your mind is no match for mine.

Again, express your opinion regarding the need for a boating organization in the Lake area, move on, and stop hijacking this thread.

I just had to chime in on this one....

Lake Winnipesaukee is a PUBLIC resource, and as such is for everyone to use. Sailboaters, Kayakers, Canoeists, Jetskier, Powerboaters of all types and of course Landowners.

I guess the best solution is to require people to think... and unfortunately you cannot legislate common sense!

If your a Canoeist or Kayaker, and you want to paddle around Winni on a busy holiday weekend, use some common sense, bright colored canoe or kayak and wear a bright colored PFD so that you can be seen. I have on numerous occasions seen people out kayaking in the middle of the Broads in dark colored kayak while wearing a blue or black PFD! You don't go for a walk in the woods during hunting season and wear camoflage!

Not too much to say about the Sailboat crowd... they do seem to enjoy the broads alot when the wind is there... The smaller guys seem to have an attitude, but they are the ones most challenged by overgrown cruiser wakes splashing across thier bows!

JetSki owners are like motorcycle riders. They want to do thier own thing, they are small, fast and highly maneuverable, really don't care too much about rules & regulations as long they get to do thier thing.

The powerboaters really are thier own worst enemy! They all have differing opinions on how the lake should be governed and bicker quite vociferously about it and its all related to what type of boat they operate. The easiest guys to pick on are the GF boaters as they are the most visible of the bunch even though they are a very small minority of the powerboaters on Winnipesaukee. I don't use GFBL because not all go fast boats are loud and obnoxious. The majority of boats on the lake are family type runabouts.

The Landowners are like powerboaters, they all have opinions that relate directly to ownership of property around the lake.

The bottom line is, everyone is entitled to thier opinion. However, no one is entitled to restrict another persons pusuit of happiness. Choice is the operative word. People make thousands of decisions every day of thier lives. The speed limit on the highway is 65mph in SOME spots. I don't think there is anyplace in the country you can exceed 75mph. However, every car sold in this country is capable of exceeding the speed limit by a large margin. Some people don't like minivans (family runabouts), but they sell alot of them. Some like monster SUV's (Big Cruisers), some like hybrids (Kayaks & Sailboats) some like Convertibles (Jetskis) and some like exotic sports cars (Go fast boats). All of these vehicles, when driven properly provide safe, fun transportation and entertainment. They key is when DRIVEN PROPERLY! Its not so much the car or boat, but it is the manner in which it is operated!

a Speed Limit on Winnipesaukee is not a solution to any of the issues on the lake. It really only affects the go-fast boaters, who are a very small minority. At the hearing, the chief officer in charge of the Marine Patrol spoke AGAINST a speed limit, citing among other reasons, the lack of any empirical or statistical data showing speed was a consistent factor in boating accidents on the lake, the logistics of enforcing the limit, not limited to but including, costs in upgrading equipment (a simple police radar will not work there is a whole list of techinical reasons but I will save that for another post), increased manpower, and the new certificate program now in place.

Some here have mentioned Lake George, NY as a model lake with a speed limit. Lake George is nothing like Winnipesaukee. First off, most of the shoreline and all of the islands are owned by the State of NY. There are very few private residences on the water as compared to Winnipesaukee! The speed limit on Lake George is not enforced, although it is on the books, and is mostly cited in cases where alcohol intoxication and boating have mixed poorly.

We have enough rules and regulations on the books now. We need better driver education, and better enforcement of existing rules regarding boating safety.

Woodsy