So are you really trying to suggest that anyone who makes a financial decision that may benefit them from a tax perspective is engaging in illegal behavior? REALLY?

This happens all the time and why people/businesses itemize their returns and hire CPAs to give them advice on how to manage their finances in such a way to benefit them from a tax perspective. Nothing wrong with that.

So sorry Wal-Mart doesn't offer this service for $2.99.

Team-USA: Make America Great Again!
 

Something you do learn at Walmart ...... to Make America Great Again ..... all the people need to step up to the plate ..... and pay their taxes!

To avoid paying taxes is totally legal,

To evade paying taxes is totally not legal.

So, is prepaying your local property tax a design to avoid, or a design to evade ..... a very big question ..... and one that is unresolved for now .....until it gets the attention of the Internal Revenue Service.

... the www.irs.gov ..... Making America Great Again!

The most common means of tax avoidance is accomplished by claiming all your permissible deductions and credits. This is not illegal.

Now if the new law explicitly said you cannot pre-pay your property tax I would agree that would be illegal and could be classified as evasion. However in the absence of that language pre-payment for the purposes of avoidance is perfectly fine in theory. Of course one should check with their tax preparer!

In an interesting turn of events....

New York State will allow residents to pre-pay 2018 property taxes in 2017, in order to take advantage of a bigger deduction before new federal tax laws go into effect, Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced Friday.
In a news conference, Cuomo told reporters he was trying to find ways to help cushion the blow of the tax law, which he said “disproportionately hurts New York State, more than any state in the nation.”

I am stunned that a elected official, in particular a democrat who has railed in the past over not paying one's "fair share" is now purposely maneuvering state law by executive order no less to create a tax loophole for people to take advantage of. How many people will starve or better yet DIE because of this?

It may be a tax loophole for residents but it would be a tax winfall for the state. The state gets to invest that money all year and collect interest and dividends.

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IMHO anyone who has a property tax bill of $10,000 or more probably don't give this new tax change much thought. Especially when they can afford to pay that much on a vacation home.

Remember everyone, I said IMHO.

I would respectfully disagree. People who have made good decisions all of their life that enable them to afford a property with a tax bill in excess of $10,000 probably give their financial decisions a lot of thought. Unless, by accident of birth these people were very fortunate, I think a lot of thought, calculation, and financial planning goes into every major decision.

IMHO :)

You're absolutely correct about first generation money, those that actually made it.

Second and subsequent generations - unless taught otherwise may not have as much appreciation for what they got and may suffer from Paris Hilton syndrome. That however is not the norm.

IMHO - I'm sick and tired of the ever increasing number of free loaders expecting somebody else to work and pay for what they want. This smug notion that oh that person is wealthy they can afford it. Constant whining and crying about the rich, income inequality and so on....well ya know what maybe if you had spent less time crying and feeling sorry for yourself as a victim, quit making stupid financial decisions, and went out and did something for yourself you'd be in a far better position. I've never seen hard work and perseverance ever lead to failure, but complacency and ignorance all but guarantees it.

FYI - I'm not a rich guy but I love rich people, and more so the story of how they got there. I don't curse them I'm inspired by their success. To bad I'm in the minority which is a shame.

Well said. Many do don’t understand the trials, stress sacrifice and pressure that it can take to attain financial independence. Also just First generations but if I seen it in second and third when previous generations do not guard their assets well. To be bitter of those that sacrificed reached a certain level of wealth is simple arrogance and jealousy.


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Not all rich people are created equal. Not all got their money from working hard.

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If I may...
I am far from rich, I made poor (hindsight they were stupid) financial decisions in my younger days. I have failed on several occasions. I have needed a hand to get back on my feet. I am thankful that today, I am in a position to help those that helped me. We were not all brought into this world with a Silver Spoon.

Inherited Wealth
 

There are different surveys out there, but 86-88% of "millionaires," those individuals having a net worth greater than $1,000,000, did not inherit their money, but earned it. I know this is true for relatives in my family.

There's a sizeable difference between "inheritance" and "starter loans/parental help," etc. There is also a sizeable continuum for "earned" success, however, given the nature of one's birth lottery.

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Disagree
 

"Birth lottery!" :laugh: What a joke. Three out of my four grandparents never made it past the 8th grade. One grandfather worked in a plating factory and the other was a house painter. The grandfather who worked in the plating factory was orphaned at age 8, and joined WWII at 16 to get out of foster homes and the orphanages. I'm sure if he was alive today, he would laugh out loud at the concept of "birth lottery." To take it further, my dad was a painting contractor and my mom was a hairdresser, when she worked. Again, hardly an upper hand on life.

You and others keep on perpetuating the notion that one can't get ahead without being the beneficiary of whatever reason. Nothing is further from the truth. ANYONE can get ahead if one works hard, makes good decisions and maintains a positive outlook. No doubt some have to overcome more obstacles than others, but if you were lucky enough to be born in America, you can make it!

Wow, you are so far out of touch.

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Confused
 

I'm confused. How so?

You are spot on, Major. The entitlement generation cannot understand the concept of the risk and hard work necessary to succeed. Sad, in my opinion.

Thanks
 

I get so frustrated when I hear that you just can't get ahead unless . . . . All of us have obstacles to overcome. Nothing good comes easy. I wish everyone understood that.

Back on topic...
 

Getting back to the original topic... Gilford allows for up to 2 yrs prepayment of property taxes based on your 2017 amount. Depending on your situation, AMT may offset the benefit of doing so.

To begin with, your anecdotal evidence. My father also has an 8th grade education and worked 40 years in maintenance/machining. With that job, and my mother's at a grocery store, I was able to attend college. That couldn't ever happen again--they haven't hired a person at Dad's shop without a college degree in the last twenty years, and mom's pay would've barely increased in the last ten.

Also, to think that success or failure in this country is purely a matter of making the right decisions throws sand in the face of, I dunno, everything we know through sociology and psychology.

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As the great Si Robertson said, we'll have to disagree to disagree.

I personally know the owners of two local machine shops, and a college degree is NOT required. If you're smart, and show promise, the owners of these shops are willing to give you a chance. It is hard to find good machinists.

Also, I don't place much stock in sociology or psychology.

Tax Pre Payment
 

I stopped by the Moultonborough Town Hall today and learned they will accept up to 2 years prepayment for property taxes based on this years tax bill.

Tax Prepayment
 

Anyone know if Meredith accepts prepayment?

NH 5% dividends and interest tax (yes NH does have an income tax).

For those that have to pay the tax, the final estimated tax payment for 2017 is due 1/16/2018. I see no reason why it can't be paid this calendar year.

I don't consider a million dollar neg worth rich today unless you are in your 20's.

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I think we are confusing rich with making a good living. A million dollars net worth today is not my definition of rich uless you're in your 20's. Then you are well on your way. I would consider upwards of 10 million net worth as being rich today.

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Knowing things through "sociology and psychology" is what is wrong with the thought process. How about real life. I agree with Major, anyone who wants to make it and be successful can. The only exceptions are people who have limited ability due to diminished physical or mental capacity.

There are too many people who expect the world to be handed to them. WalMart is hiring first year truck drivers and starting them at $80,000 per year. If you take that job and live a $40,000 per year lifestyle you can save a lot of money and buy some investment property. Or, you can get tattoos, smoke cigarettes, and hang with your friends and use drugs. Maybe you can even have a pregnant girlfriend too. Poor choices are the reason many people have little or no money. Everyone in America has the opportunity to be successful if they make good choices.

I have a friend who is a school teacher and for many years he expressed jealousy when I bought a house or a new car or a new boat. When I suggested that he get a full time job he didn't even know what I was talking about. That tells you all you need to know.

You're both right--everyone has the same exact chances at success. Those people who fail are all just choosing to. Brilliant.

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Reading comprehension 101: I never said people chose to fail, I said they didn't choose to succeed.

My first job after high school? A gas station, pumping gas. My next job: a different gas station 1 mile down the road. But I had goals and wanted a boat. I even dreamed about a house on Winnipesaukee some day. Starting in 1970 I would cruise the lake in my boat and admire the waterfront homes, wondering how I could ever get there. I had no family there and no property (or money) to inherit.

No one ever gave me 5 cents but I figured out a path to have a boat (and many more) and eventually buy a waterfront home on the lake. I worked a lot of hours, sometimes at three different jobs, trying to get ahead. I am not special, gifted, or lucky, I just decided it was worth the the effort to do the work to get there. And I did. After 14 years on the lake I still get up every morning that I am there and look out at the lake and smile. I am very grateful to have a home there.

I believe that at a young age everyone has the same opportunity. It is the decisions that follow that determine where and how far they will go.

I am grateful that I didn’t have Thinking as a parent. I would not have pushed myself and worked hard to achieve any level of success. What’s the point, the little guy can’t get ahead, right? There’s no point in trying to be a little smarter, work a little harder, do things outside your comfort zone. The deck is stacked against us.


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Kind of a low blow, don't you think?

Hmm, seems close enough to me, but whatever.

How'd you get to your first job? Who taught you how to apply, interview, and fill out paperwork? Who guided you through school? Were you in a safe enough area to not worry about traveling? Who helped you get your license? Who fed and clothed you well enough to receive the education that allowed you to pursue your dreams? Who taught you that you could succeed with hard work? Who taught you how to work with money, to keep a checkbook and bank accounts, to consider loans and financing.

None of those things is natural, they all require investment from people and institutions. If either are lacking, the potential for success is hindered. Basic behaviorism. Oh, wait, psychology and sociology are the reason we're in this mess.

Note that I'm not saying success is impossible, but the truth is--whether or not you want to accept it--is that one's birth situation--parents/family, location, financial circumstances, education, race, etc.-- directly correlates to one's chances of success. Choice is only a reflection of what has been learned.

I apologize to the OP for continuing to be off-topic.

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Fair point, but I’m not the one saying that it’s nearly impossible to get ahead, and if you do, it is because of some type of privilege. I’ve seen too many people who came from nothing achieve tremendous success. I believe in making something of oneself.


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No worries. Major was born in the forest and all his success is his own doing. No one, and no institution, had any influence on him. He's a pull-yourself-up-by-the-not-given-to-him-boot-straps kinda guy.

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You have a good head on your shoulders and I agree with your well written reasons that explain what it takes for MOST people to succeed in life.

No, but I was born to Forrest. The one advantage I had was great parents, but I had to do a lot on my own. I was the one who saw an advertisement in the paper for a day student scholarship at New Hampton School. Yes, my mom drove me there to take the test, but I took the test and won the scholarship. My parents never applied to college, so I was the one who investigated and applied to colleges. I was the one who investigated and applied for an Army ROTC scholarship so that I could go to WPI instead of UNH. No one guided me through the process. Same thing with law school, which my wife and I cash flowed.

We had moral support from my parents, but you are correct in that I did most of it on my own.


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So, yeah....

What a bunch of psychobabble crap! With all due respect..... thank GOD I didn't go to college or listen to people like you.

I guess I'm a unicorn then right? Believe it or not I managed to do the following having nothing but a high school diploma:

1. Move out on my own at 18 years old with nothing but what I had on my back
2. Learned to live on 75% of my income from day one, put the rest away for a rainy day - NEVER WENT INTO DEBT!!!! Paid cash for everything, if I didn't have cash to buy it I would wait to buy. Only in an emergency would I tap into savings to buy what was absolutely needed.
3. Got married in my mid 20's and shockingly my wife and I built a brand new house in lieu of a fancy wedding (yes a coherent choice we made)
4. Two years after we go married wife quit her job so she could stay home and take care of the kid - from there on out we've lived on a single income

5. Worked my ass off till I could break into the career I have now, that was done by brute force hard work. Nothing was handed to me, I made that happen.
6. Have two properties (one on the lake) and still no debt.
7. Mange my own portfolio and well on my way to retiring early.

What I have NOT done

1. lease a car or buy new cars
2. go on vacations
3. use my property as a cash register
4. pay anyone to do anything for with very few exceptions
5. go out to dinner or out on the town regularly
6. keep up with the jones'

Now how exactly does one accomplish this? Easy, work hard and every decision is all about weighing the pros and cons. It's common sense! If I didn't know I sought out somebody who could advise me. Have I made bad decisions, sure but not many and I'd classify those as taking a known risk that had limited down side should it not pan out which some did not. Am I lucky, I will simply and smugly say no, because every decision was well thought out and no I didn't need to be handheld the entire way to make this happen. But I will say that along my journey there have been plenty who thought what I was doing was crazy.... opinion vary!

This thread had turned into a forum for people to pat themselves on the back. :(

Someone made a comment earlier about a school teacher not being able to get ahead because they had, what he considered, a part time job. While I agree it's not a job you're going to get rich at, it's a selfless job that deserves more of our respect.
Not everyone puts a dollar value on success.
It's true that choices you make help to determine the outcome of your future but some people have more road blocks to over come with no one to help them through the tough times.
Great family and friends will make your rich beyond the money.
All of us here have a passion for the NH lakes region but that's not everyones dream.
We go through life with the desire to make more money and buy more things. When we are gone no one will give a rats ass how much money you made. They will divide it all up and move on. Sad but true.
Happy New Year everyone! I hope it's a happy and prosperous one for all my forum friends. :cheers:

I grew up in a family of 7 with one car that my parents shared. On the days my mother had the car my father took the bus to work. There was no extra money. My mother even mixed powdered milk in with the regular milk to make it go farther because the grocery budget was a little tight.

How did I get my first job? Not sure how far back to go. Had a morning paper route delivering newspapers before I went to public schools. Worked at the Dairy Queen during high school. First full time job? I walked a mile to the gas station and asked if they needed any help. Fill out paperwork? I guess I learned enough in school to read and write the English language. I saved enough to buy a Buick Special for $250 so I could drive to work.

Who helped me get my license? I paid for Driver Education with my own money and even paid to use their car for the test. When I was 21, I sold my car and used the money to buy a truck tractor, took lessons and got Commercial Drivers License and hauled other people's trailers for mileage pay.

No one taught me I could succeed with hard work. I looked around me and saw what might work and did it. From my 20's though about age 50 I worked 3 jobs, averaging about 80 hours per week.

Who taught me how to keep a checkbook? It isn't rocket science to keep a checkbook but I admit I now use QuickBooks to manage the finances of my commercial and residential investment properties. I guess you would say I have help. I did figure out how QuickBooks works on my own.

In these times of safe spaces and participation trophies many young people have neither the desire nor the will to be very successful. I have friends who are proud that their child is getting a degree in Ancient European History. Uhhh....OK. Good luck with that!

WOW! 28 I/me/my's! Exactly the biggest issue in this country today!