As John pointed out that conservative and Republican are not the same thing--we should also note that misinformation and conservative are not the same thing. You don't see people quickly dismissing articles from the Wall Street Journal or Forbes, just for example. But when there are repeated posts from laughable misinformation or disinformation sites, you should expect them to be called for what they are

Websites aren't going to matter.
The economy is front and center... and federal support is largely gone.

Biden authorized a coordinated release of crude from the reserve... but as we see covid is what really brought the crude futures back down to Earth.

I know that the government contract mandate is really going to shake up the situation... but even that will shake out rather quickly in a month or two.

Good point, but an easy mistake to make. We're in a situation where the loudest Republican voices assert they are the most conservative people, while doing very unconservative things.

Deficit spending increases during the Trump administration were at levels that would make conservatives blush, just as one example.

President Trump's friendliness to Russia was also very new for a group that coined the phrase "Evil Empire".

I am not opining on whether these things were good or bad, only noting that they were not conservative.

Conservatives are defined as conserving...
Basically we are taught from birth... Waste not, Want not.
Politicians of either party are a different breed, they flow to whatever they feel will get them the vote.

For us, the vaccines mean less time loss at work (hopefully), less time lying around (I spend more time working to increase the productivity of my property during my down time), and less medical costs (going to the hospital for most means a bill - a very costly bill).

Very admirable and easy to understand. Also harkens back to when people who described themselves as conservative sought to protect the environment. I have never thought of myself as conservative, but I do try to be conservative in the way you define it. Cheers

A fair point.....but if those who are vaccinated can still carry, spread and contact covid 19.......why are we demonizing the unvaccinated. Looks like everyone is in the same boat

Because I was forced to stay home because I carried the virus to, and I quote, ''Protect those that are not vaccinated''. Why should I have to protect them from a choice they made?
I have seen my medical insurance premiums rise dramatically... it isn't because I was sitting in an ER or hospitalized.

Except the chances of hospitalization and death are much greater in the unvaccinated. And aside from the obvious, the unvaccinated are a greater economic burden. Not everyone is in the same boat at all.

I think that is why we are slowly seeing the businesses transfer the medical premiums back onto their workers. It places more responsibility on the individual do what they can to remain symptom free.

The loss time for the various outlets will continue to show up in higher costs registered as inflation.

Interesting thing on the health care side, Medicare Part A is not in the best of shape... so more hospitalizations may have serious implications on retribution rates and what facilities will end their attachment to Medicare.

Medicaid directly impacts the State budget (that includes uncompensated care), so the outcome is a bit more collective on that front.

I don't think anyone has demonized the unvaccinated. That is not the same thing as being disappointed in their actions or even requiring them to be vaxxed to keep their jobs.

The chances of a vaccinated person contracting/spreading are far less than those of an unvaccinated person.

Actually in favor of vaccinations.......just curious about the controversy

I agree, sadly, that the controversy itself is fascinating.

A very thoughtful cousin said to me a few weeks ago that the capacity for sophisticated thought separates humans from other species. But the irony is that our capacity for thought does not give us the capacity to change our behavior on these complex issues. In this case, we have the ability to protect the entire world, but we have not done so.

The same can be said for eliminating poverty, we have not. Eliminating hunger and homelessness, we have not. Eliminating wars, we have not. However, you believe we have the capacity to eliminate this virus.


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We just have to wait! Everyone is on their way here coming across the southern border.

YES! EXACTLY! I did not mean to suggest that this is the only situation, this phenomena is everywhere, including your great examples. I did mean to point out that there is a difference between our thoughts and our "capacity". We do not have the capacity to be governed by our rational thoughts.

To your examples--We have the brains and resources to eliminate poverty, at least in the USA, yet we do not. Wars are not the product of rational humanitarian thinking anywhere--everyone knows that at least one side will suffer terribly, and we keep choosing to enter them. We know that if we vaccinated everybody worldwide, covid would pretty much disappear; yet we do not choose to do this.

This occurs at a personal level stuff too. Just recall all the things you've done that conflicted with your own rational thought.

Dr. Anthony Fauci says we should do 8 things to deal with the Omicron variant.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...edgdhp&pc=U531

Mutations on the spike proteins of the variant caught the attention of researchers who have been on the lookout for changes that could worsen the pandemic.


https://www.nbcnews.com/science/scie...ickly-rcna6979

This statement is patently untrue.... Unfortunately the vaccine does not prevent the spread and thus does not prevent mutation of Covid. The CDC published a report that showed similar viral loads in vaccinated people as they did in unvaccinated people.

In the P-Town Delta outbreak, 74% of the people were vaccinated. Omicron is poised to be even more pervasive. Luckily the vaccines are good at keeping people out of the hospital. Unfortunately, they do not prevent employee downtime...

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/...cid=mm7031e2_w

Woodsy

I doubt they could have made the argument with a straight face that I had to isolate - downtime - to protect those that are not vaccinated if everyone on the planet was vaccinated.

The vaccines reduce infections and thus spread and mutation dramatically. I can't believe I still have to type that or that you think covid would have any significance at all if everyone was vaxxed.

In P-town hundreds of young people descended on crowded bars to get up close and personal with strangers. Moronic and highly unusual--they were basically bathing themselves in other people. I can't believe you hold that up as some sort of typical happening.

I leave your gain of function posts alone because they are so out there that nobody believes them. Please go back to those

I give you the link to the CDC study on Ptown... and yet you dismiss precisely what it says! You claim the vax reduces infection, yet despite MA having a 69% vaccination rate at that time, out of the 469 people who contracted Covid in this incident, 346 (74%) were fully vaxxed! 74%! The CDC study found similar viral loads in vaxxed/unvaxxed people, indicating that despite being vaxxed, you can still transmit Covid! You dismiss the Ptown outbreak as "moronic and unusual"... However, Ptown was studied precisely because it represents a typical large gathering!

The US currently has an average vax rate of 59%... yet we have had more infections this year than last year. With a 59% vax rate one would think it would be much lower.

You cannot have it both ways! If the CDC is to be believed, then the message on the CDC website that states despite being fully vaccinated you can still catch & spread Covid is truthful... and Ptown outbreak backs that message up!

The ONLY thing the vax is good at is keeping a person's symptoms relatively mild (if any symptoms) and out of the hospital... thus conserving an already low resource (medical care) and $$$ that would have to pay for it. Unfortunately, the vax has had little effect on the lost time due to quarantine and the affect that lost time has on the economy. A scary sidebar is an asymptomatic vaxxed person spreading the virus without knowing.

Woodsy

Will everybody please pray for Marcus Lamb, 64 ...... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/marcus-l...isinformation/ ..... "a vaccine skeptic who repeatedly suggested on air that people pray instead of getting vaccinated."

http://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/01/us...lamb-dead.html

In September of 2020, if the announcement were made that the new “warp speed” vaccine produced during the Trump administration would remarkably reduce death and hospitalization due to Covid, there would be rejoicing and a mad rush to get vaccinated.


It is also true, according to the latest studies and the scientific consensus, that even the fully vaccinated can still be infected with the virus and transmit it to others….whether the vaccinated person has no symptoms or mild symptoms.

This is why, according to the LATEST CDC recommendation, that in some circumstances even the vaccinated should mask up in large indoor spaces and in areas with a high transmission rate, such as NH. And in some circumstances, even in large outdoor gatherings.

What is still in some dispute is just how easily the vaccinated can transmit it. The latest study suggests that the vaccinated transmit it as easily as the unvaccinated. That is how science works, you learn as you go.

The truth is there is still a lot we don’t know about Covid, the original alpha variant as well as those to come.

The most important lesson is that we would be in a lot better shape if more people were vaccinated, regardless of how easily the vaccinated can spread the virus.

And, miracle of miracles, with full vaccination Covid might be only as dangerous as the Flu.

It's not that I claim the vax reduces infections, it's that clinical trials prove it.

You seem to be hung up on the idea that if any vaxxed person becomes infected, that disproves the vaccines. This is ridiculous--nobody has said the vaccines are perfect. If, just for example, you read that a vaccine is 90% effective, that means that (all else being equal) a vaccinated person has reduced his chance of infection by only 90% compared to an unvaxxed person with the same lifestyle and level of exposure. It should be obvious that this is extraordinarily good.

But this is all exposure dependent--if a vaxxed person amps up his exposure, he also amps up his chance of getting covid. I don't know if you've ever been to a crowded bar or dance club that caters to singles, or maybe seen one on TV? These extremely tight quarters with hundreds of sweating heavy breathers all trying to maximize their contact with others. This was not tea and crumpets on the beach.

Get vaxxed. Stay out of mosh pits

Has anyone seen data or information on how vaccinated vs. unvaccinated have behaved in terms of risk exposure? Specifically, do vaccinated people take more risks and, as such, have a higher likelihood of being exposed in the first place?

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I sorta,maybe, know what you’re asking. But in evaluating ones risk exposure, regardless of what the vaccinated do, their risk for a particular activity, in terms of death and hospitalization, will be less than the unvaccinated.

The REAL risk takers are the unvaccinated.

But there is a difference between real risk and perceived risk. The person who believes his magic feather will protect him from Covid is not really a “risk taker” by exposing himself to the virus.

Well ...... organized indoor pickleball run by the local town recreation depts is happening. I play about three or four times per week with no one wearing a mask and no vaccination requirement. No one has asked to see my CVS official Triple-Vaxx government vaccination card to get inside the gym, yet. When you play pickleball the dynamics and socialization involved whomps the hell out of any stray virus strands alive inside the large indoor gymnasium and the covid doesnt have no chance to make contact with a pickleball player! ...... ;):banana:

Hey ...... what the hay ..... iff'n I actually get whomped by the covid ...... I'm think'n it will backfire in a good way ...... and whomp the holy hell out of my tinnitus. Covid trumps tinnitus ...... and I come out the big winner! Weeeeooooo ...... :D

I appreciate the nuance, but I was looking more for generalities. For example, I went to a comedy show (Gary Gulman) in Boston last week that required proof of vaccination and mask wearing. In that scenario, "vaccinated" people (I'm assuming some weren't really) were increasing their odds of exposure in a way that unvaccinated were not.

Also, are more of those unmasked people in public spaces vaccinated people who are more confident or is there a relationship between "safety minded" people and masks in general...even after being vaccinated?

So many questions!

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Why do you assume some individuals are lying about their vaccine status? Sitting in a crowded theater enjoying a comedy show this time of year is a risk you are willing to take. Many of us wouldn’t take pandemic or not


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Congregating in bars with strangers, whether in Provincetown or elsewhere, is normal human social behavior, and the opposite of moronic. Normal people have moved well beyond the pathological virus panic and discarded the useless masks and begun to live their lives out from under their beds again. The fad of fixation on the virus has faded, as all fads do. Virtually no one pays attention to those who want to cling to being miserable and trying to make others join them in their misery.


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You win first prize
 

Congratulations! This is the best post of 2021 - period, end of discussion. :cheers: The panic porn crowd will continue to push this ridiculous narrative until they're out of breath. Their house of cards is rapidly collapsing, as is the administration that's pushing this nonsense.

I don't know how widespread it is, but I've been told by people they've been vaccinated only to find out later they weren't, so I'm assuming that applies to some in general.

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Like Aaron Rodgers? Oh wait, he said he was immunized...:liplick::)

But seriously, I know more than one fully vaccinated person who tested positive with no symptoms. Their concern is not for themselves but instead for the unvaccinated and/or high risk people they come into contact with. One is a doctor, the other an educator in an elementary school where children can only now be vaccinated. I applaud their willingness to take precautions to protect others. Until this happened so close to me I was getting tired of the precautions I have been putting up with for so long. Now, as I look at my vaccinated and boosted parents who are very high risk, I am grateful for the steps so many are taking to protect not themselves but others and will continue to choose to do the same.

Good read from the Atlantic. Brewing a second cup of coffee before I read how a few of you tear it apart!
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...s-fine/620824/


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Why would any thoughtful person “tear it up?” This isn’t high school, where you have to root for your “side.”

The article is well written. If you read beyond the title, a lot of the success of the schools is stated to be attributed to the reasonable precautions of masking and other mitigating measures. My stepson teaches at a small university which had very reasonable guidelines that were followed and the school has had very few problems.

And, there still is a lot we don’t understand about the pandemic.

Exactly right. Here's a solid section.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d2126e8d50.jpg

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I haven't seen any data on that. I don't tend to socialize outside of work; but spend a lot of hours there. I think for my breakthrough it was more a matter of the number of people that work closely together and the number that finally came down with it after all those hours together. When some started showing some pretty strong signs of being sick, I have to admit we didn't react as quickly as we should have.

You're right. I was too harsh with moronic.

Let's just say that it is higher risk wrt covid than pretty much anything else, so we should not be surprised that a number of people got sick.

I think a certain section of our society has yet to accept that the recent indiscretions are going the way of the dinosaur.