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The school board has no clue on a plan. The school board is a separate legal governing body, with it own Wishlist of expenditure's. You MoBo residents need to plan on attending the annual school district meeting and vote on the warrant articles the school board will submit. That annual meeting is in March. The town annual meeting is in May. The annual school district meeting had about 70 of us that bothered to attend. It lasted all of 8:58 minutes for a $17 million dollar budget! It's on youtube. The town meeting meeting had to be re-scheduled because too many voters showed up to vote on The Hub. The town budget was $10 million. You'll note that local ed. is part of the tax rate, although the annual town meeting doesn't vote on those expenditures ... the annual school meeting voters do. Yes, the same potential voters but voters that attend the school meeting have been under the radar. |
Why are people "entitled" to a house on the lake or a house with lake access?
I bought a Moultonborough lake house in 1994 and I knew the tax structure then (it had already worked the way it does for quite a while). I knew that waterfront property would escalate in value and shift ever more tax proportionately to me. I planned to retire to the lake but my personal situation changed and I couldn't afford the lake house in retirement. I sold it, got a nice chunk of change for my retirement, and now live in a nice house (not on the lake) in Center Harbor. It quite nicely fits my retirement budget and, as observed, my taxes are much more stable and affordable. Friends of ours did the same thing and have been very happy in their non lake house with affordable taxes in Meredith for many years. Why should lake owners be entitled to shift the taxes to other people so that they can keep their preferable house? Should the rest of the taxpayers be required to set aside some cash to allow lakefront owners to buy a Mercedes because that's more preferable than a Toyota? The present property tax structure is reality and is unlikely to change. The state would have to decide that "helping" a small number of advantaged property owners and shifting the tax burden to non advantaged property owners would be workable. Since there are a LOT more NON advantaged property owners AND voters than advantaged owners, it would NOT be politically smart to consider this. Confront the reality of the tax situation and do what you have to to fit your personal situation. |
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People that have owned waterfront property for many years shouldn't be forced to sell because they can no longer afford the taxes, no matter how much their property has increased in value. In my hometown in Ma, because we have so many rental properties, residential owners who live full time in their properties get a 20% reduction on their property taxes. If you have a multifamily and you live in one unit you get a discount on that portion of the property. |
Personally, I've never been a lakefront owner; lake access yes, on Longisland. Bought the property in1974, built a house, sold it five years ago; neighborhood went to hell. I should change my handle from Longislander to Moultonboro Necker. Prefer to look at the ever changing view of the mountains, especially Mt. Washington than the lake.
I don't begrudge lakefront owners. Their choice. Moultonborough, according to gov't census, has around 5,000 residents' about 1,000 increase from the 2010 to 2020 census. What the censuses don't show is the summer influx of second homeowners and renters. The town blooms, like cyanobacteria, to 25,000-40,000 folks, mainly out-of-staters. Happy to see the out-of-state plates. They cannot legally vote, but help the local economy. |
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I have not problem with the Tax Rate itself.....However its increase with the Re-assement increase, is a combination that leaves my stomach sour..... I will again use my situation as an example. My old valuation and the new tax rate: ~750K x 5.70 per thousand = ~4.2K This would have been 300$ above my 2022 total tax and inline with my 2019 and 2020 taxes the extra ~300K I was just assessed for added ~300K x 5.7 per thousand = ~1,710 Now you can talk about inflation etc. and give back in 2022 etc.... but 1710$ increase in taxes just doesn't added up..... Now add fuel to this agrument, taxes in 2021 where the highest I have record of at ~5.2K, this years total tax at ~5.9K is still a 13% increase... which is still an incredible increase...... Once again I stick to the NH way is not a sound way..... I have never seen year over year property tax swings like I have seen in NH... |
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The "list" is relevant in exposing the fallacy that tax rates are too high. Quote:
If you have been a taxpayer since 2006 on Longisland, regardless of lakefront, just review your own assessment. The other property assessments are their assessments. Just go to the town website, to the tax/gis maps, if you haven't already, and the property card gives you the last three years assessment/tax for both property and buildings. You can see there the upswing, alone, never mind prior. Maybe you can get some meaning from numbers. https://www.axisgis.com/moultonboroughNH/ For those of you that are not MoBo'ers just "search" any address, last name etc. Smith ... Jones etc. Go to "Documents and Links', and then "property card". On the right side you see the last three years of assessment and taxes. Better yet, for you lakefront folks, when the map comes up don't bother with "search" just zoom-in on a lakefront property, click on it, and then go to the property card. |
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The towns are required to submit to the NH DRA many forms, with data before tax rates are approved.
Then, Tax rates ... by the NH DRA ... then .... https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/...ation-data.pdf https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/...-tax-rates.htm I'm heading out the door to Wolfeboro, but will take a look back at the forum later this evening, if we can chat some more. |
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For a property to be sold, there must be a buyer. |
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That amount is then divided the total property tax within the district (gets a little more complex with multi-district schools due to agreed upon funding formulas). So if the town needs to raise $50M per budget, but has offsets of $5M, then the property tax must raise $45M. The DRA takes the $45M and divides it by total property valuation within the town. That sets the municipal rate. The DRA continues down the line until each category rate is set. The category rates added together is the total rate that we are looking at. The total rate is multiplied by assessed value (fair market value) divided by 1000 and that is your tax. So a town budget can stay exactly the same... but the loss of a revenue offset can make the amount to be raised by property taxes higher. The same can happen with the school and county budgets. |
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Once again, this is a very important point. All the taxes we pay are voted into being, or law, by either town meeting or our representatives. Taxes do not increase due to new assessments. That is unless your property has appreciated faster than the average of everyone else's increase, but that's another discussion. |
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Sometimes it goes up and sometimes it goes down, but it's always feels like it's too much when you're a buyer and not enough when you're a seller! |
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If a property is to be sold... there must be a buyer.
What you are asking is will market value have to fall (sell for less) to get a buyer. That would be an equilibrium. The falling fair market values would create a lower assessment and begin shifting the ratio away from waterfront. So far, it hasn't happened even in other surrounding towns that have higher tax rates. Interest rates could play a role, but long cycle dynamics are in opposition to that outcome. |
John - please message me
John - if you can private message me I would appreciate it. Thanks
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At some point, there will be a market slump. Current owners will still be able to sell, just at somewhat reduced prices. As the lower lake values are factored in, some of the tax responsibility will be shifted away from the lake owners to the non lake residents. Then you will hear non lake residents groaning about their taxes going up, ... until the next boom cycle. Effectively, rising lake home prices guarantee that taxes will proportionately shift more to those houses. The silver lining is that if you DO need to sell, you will get more for your lake home without having to do anything to improve it. In fact, if you are in the position of not being able to afford the taxes, NOW is a time to consider selling while prices are still high and you can get the most benefit. Also consider, every year that you spend in a house with taxes you can barely afford, you are depleting your resources, never to get the money back. Say you are pulling $5,000 out of savings every year to pay taxes. After 10 years, you are down $50,000. That money could have been spent on some nice vacation getaways. Or money for a needed new car. Some future planning may show you would be smart to get away from the high taxes NOW, rather than later after all the tax damage is done. Also, is your lake house needing big repairs (new roof, septic, flooring ...) that you cannot afford. If you sell, you can afford another house in great condition. It's a personal choice BUT it's also driven by hard economic realities. |
moultonboro tax
been a lakefront owner since 1997. taxes/ unit of market value are quite low in 03254 compared to other towns and reasonable compared to other states. it seems like people are complaining that their property values have increased and they don't like that their taxes have increased commensurately.
move? |
There will always be buyers for waterfront property. They aren’t making any more waterfront. Off waterfront may be a different story.
Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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What I do have a problem with it both taking place in the same year, at the rate in which they did... That tells me that somewhere something is not be kept in check.... Once again I will stick to the math of it all....... using the Figures from Tummyman, and starting with the Tax rate, we would have had last year with this year property values $4.14 We add the addition of "extra cash" and the reduced income which I am fine with and can understand we get too 4.71 and ok that is reasonable and I would have a tax bill of ~5200$ which is inline with my 2021 tax bill..... And to me that is reasonable. But I do know the cost of things have gone up, so I expect a increase from there.... Where we start to encounter questions is from the additional $0.99..... on a personal level for me I see that as an $1000 of additional Taxes.... But now lets play that out further at the Town of Multonborough level, which has $5.6B worth of property value.... That is over 5.5M dollars worth of additional funding..... I don't care who you are that is a lot of additional Cabbage, So where is it all going.... What is being done with the money.... Have the towns spending needs changed that much? I would be very suprised by that.... Now had the tax increase been 1/3 of that 99 cents so 33 cents... which would have been 1.8M dollars of additional funding at the town level and 363$ passed on to a homeowner... I wouldn't have batted and eye.... I probably would have rationalized 50 cents per thousand additional.... I do agree that overall the Tax rate for Moultonborough is very low... which is what leads to the property especially on the water being so desirable... And why in my estimation, there will never be a problem selling waterfront property in Moultonborough.... The Town and the State know this... And Moultonborugh isn't the only town that sees this overall all the Winnipesaukee towns have a low tax rate.... Mostly because there Municipal and Local Ed. needs are minimal, do to the very low permanent resident population. I think locally the spending in Moultonborough is very frugal, and I don't have concerns at that level, I do have concerns at the County and State levels however, which come down and have an effect on our property Taxes.... Here is the food for thought once again with Numbers, According to publicly available forms, the valuation of property for all of New Hampshire is ~$200B..... an increase accross the board of 33 Cents per thousand is ~$100M..... |
Access To Tax Bill Online
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https://nhtaxkiosk.com |
What the heck!! My tax bill went up 42% from 2022 to 2023.
Apparently the town assessors is getting bombarded with questions. This needs to be addressed at next years annual meeting. The town does not need 42% more in taxes. |
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If you think the number is off... that the municipal budget and divide it by total town property valuation. From what tummyman stated, you do not have a ''buy down'' of the taxes this year like you did last year; so that simple math should be reasonably accurate in the final number. |
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Moultonborough taxes
Every year the question of taxes is beat to death on this Forum, and after a while, people finally begin to realize he complexity of calculating the tax rate, and that each Town, for the matter, each property, the tax rate is unique. To really know about taxes year after year, drag out your last year's checkbook and see what you paid - if it is more, your taxes went up, if it is less, your taxes went down. And that is the simplest explanation possible.
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So I just found some interesting reading , regarding the town of Moultonborough, expenditures and overall budget...
https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/Doc...ant--Budgetpdf https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/Doc...Town-Budgetpdf What did this help me understand? - The School Budget is not accounted for as part of the Town Budget... - A clear run done of all the proposals from last year... Not sure what was voted down, beyond the HUB... but I am sure I can find those results somewhere... all the the rest of it seemed reasonable.... - The town and school budgets combined come out to around $27M - Already Known, amount of taxes to the County ~$5M - Already known, amount of Tax Revenue from Property Tax is ~$34M So at this point there is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1-2 Million dollars unaccounted for.... This is closer to what John M. has been trying to preach then I thought... But tells me our property Tax money isn't all accounted for at the local level... Do I feel any better about the current situation, no absolutely not... I feel like there where parallel efforts going on, and the impact of both resulted in this issue. The effects of the Increase in valuations, was not fully understood before setting the Tax Rate.... It will be interesting to see what happens next year... |
Gilford Tax Rate
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School (Local) - $4.72 School (State) - $1.20 Town - $3.39 County - $0.99 Total assessed valuation for 2023 = $3,506,841,980 Total assessed valuation for 2022 = $2,601,781,920 Valuation went up 34.8% over 2022 and the tax rate went down 15.9%. The upcoming budget battles will determine just how much our town will spend versus this year. If folks want their taxes to go down or at least stay the same then they need to get involved with budgeting and make sure they vote at Town Meeting. It's OK to vote 'No' on spending measures. It's how we keep control. |
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Results of town meetings on town website. Been available a long time.
UNH also has online annual reports for most towns going way back Town https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/402...eeting-Minutes https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/254...rrant-Articles https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/Archive.aspx?AMID=44 "Proposed Budget Moultonborough For the period beginning July 1, 2023 and ending June 30, 2024" The NH DRA form MS-636 for the town is on page 43 The ABC, advisory budget committee is just that, advisory to the select board. The select board may or may not follow advice. The 2023 annual report comes out early 2024 showing 2024 warrant with the 2023 town meeting results. Since the school board is a legally separate "governing body", just as the select board is the legal "governing body" of the town, it has its own budget and legally required annual meeting (analogous to town meeting). School https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...oscUask58kYlst Click on download file, like the 2023 annual report The download file (from cloud) for the school district takes a while. For the 2023 annual report and budget see page 32; the MS-26 |
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I hate to keep beating this horse, but it is very important for taxpayers to understand, not a penny is spent with out a vote from town meeting. The only exception to that would be some immediate emergency that does not allow enough time to put into a budget and voted. Those should be few and far between. Once again, there are politicians that like it when they aren't held accountable for rising taxes because the public thinks assessments cause the increases. Then there are politicians who don't understand either. https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/252...l-Town-Reports |
Okay here is my complaint. Although my tax for waterfront property, owned since 1882 is now 45% higher than last year, I don’t like it but it is what it is. My second bill is 117% higher than last year’s, but that’s not it. My complaint is that they want this amount a full month before their normal billing cycle. People have to budget things! That’s what really riles me!:fire::fire:
One last thing mr. assessor I know the land value goes up but please don’t tell me my building has appreciated in value. It’s a 141 year old lake cottage, uninsulated, not heated, and only occupied 4 months out of the year. If it wasn’t owned by a group of descendants of the original builder it would have gone the way a lot of lake cottages have gone. Torn down and a McMansion put up. |
If the town voted for the increase... it really isn't the politicians.
I'm sure over time the desire for lakefront on Winnepesuakee will cool. It is just as easy to leave I-93 and end up on Newfound or Winnisquam. |
Being leery of awakening the forum "opinion-appraisers/assessors", thought I'd submit my last comment on this thread (I know ... thank God!).
https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/...asb-manual.pdf Has a lot of "stuff" with links that might be interesting when bored or glassy eyed. No ... I'm not trying to get in the last word ... and don't believe it will be. |
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