Saturday at noon - most boat complying
 

The rule is sort of working up north of Moultonboro bay. I'm in an area where safe passage is less than 600', so everyone passing by should be leaving no wake. Lots of big boats out, and all but a few are going slow until they hit the big part of the bay. The bass boats and the midsize cruisers (23'-28') are the worst scofflaws today. Many bass boats are going by slow, but at maximum wake speed. Don't they get it? The midsize boats are the ones that don't seem to care at all, and just fly by with the family on board. When blasted with an airhorn, they just wave. I'd guess 80% compliance overall. The shoreline is taking a beating when the captain boneheads go by, but its not continuous. Better than last weekend, and much better it would be with no rule at all. No power boating for me today. I'm going out shopping, to show the local businesses that no-wake doesn't mean no money.

Look at the pictures
 

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Everyone boating should check the Web-cams. Watch boats pass, white wakes curling, reload the image and see the effect on the water surface. Then go to the Gallery and view the images of 'Houses.' Many of the older camps, built close to the water, must be nearly floating off of foundations. Let's watch our wakes!

I'd say it's about the same over our way today in West Alton ... probably 80% compliance. The other 20% either don't know or don't care about the 600' restriction.

Again, it's much the same here. Most of the performance boats we've seen today seem to be complying.

Considering that it's Memorial Day weekend, boat traffic seems to be relatively light overall.

jkjoshuatree,

Yes, my note was in reference to your claim that anyone who altered their vacation plans due to the nowake restriction on winnie was "foolish".

That is an arrogant statement whether you meant it or not. To decide that you know what's best for *anyone* other than yourself is just plain silly. Furthermore, you imply that changing ones plans is a case of "whining" about the no wake zone.... not necessarily. I'm fairly confident that most of the people who heard about the nowake zone and chose to go elsewhere know that the lake has much to offer.

I'm not looking for an argument.....

I never whined, nor commented about the no wake zone... I simply turned left onto route 104 West (instead of East) and travelled over to Newfound and had a glorious day cruising (or bombing) around on an almost deserted lake and managed to land a few nice smallies to boot. For *MY* purposes... it was a much better option than my original plan of heading to winnie for the day.

Pretty simple, huh??

I truly hope *all* property owners survive these conditions with minimal damage...

Gusman

The Dock-Rocking Coefficient²
 

Boats here were so "all over the map" with respect to distance to shore, there was no point in determining a percentage of No-Wake compliance. Since most of my day was doing carpentry on the dock, a perpetrator-based rating system was in order—"A" being the best on the lake:

1) Outboards (All, irrespective of speed) should rate a B+ in dock-rocking.
2) Pontoon boats rate an "A"
3) Jet-Skis aren't in the running—Okay, an "A"
4) Ski-boats and wake-boats get a "D"
5) Remaining inboards: "D-"

An airhorn was used twice pre-emptively on two light cruisers, with 50% effectiveness. (One slowed to headway—one "didn't hear".) :rolleye2:

A NW wind piped up at about 3:20PM: That wind, combining now with the boat wakes, repeatedly crashed the dock and pegged the dock-rocker meter. (The surface of a large water-filled garbage can). Some very large wakes appeared "out of nowhere".

One funny encounter earlier this morning was two inboards heading towards one another at ¾-throttle -- about 200' offshore. When they came within 600' of one another, they slowed to "headway speed". When clear, they took off again.

Talk about "Not Clear on the Concept"! :laugh:

All in all? Not too bad—with two more days to go.
:eek: :confused:

Please Don't Come Back
 

First of all, this is not the kind of forum where people use that kind of language. I am surprised the web master even allowed your post!

Second, the people here are not trying to tell others how to behave. They are worried and concerned about the loon nests, the otter nests (which we have on our neighboring land) and other wildlife that live at the edge of lakes...something you apparently care little about. They are worried about the safety of the general public who might be hurt by the debris in the water. And, they are worried about the land, docks, boats, etc. many, not just they themselves, have poured their hearts and souls into, in most cases, to maintain.

So, that was really nice of you to go mess up the shores of Newfound instead of Winnipesaukee. I'm sure the otters, loons, and people whose docks are underwater on Newfound are appreciative of your generosity.

If you are this disrespectful in your writing, I'm not surprised you don't recognize arrogance when you see it in the mirror.

Defending GusMan
 

MJP,
Before you go accusing GusMan of doing something utterly destructive to Newfound Lake, maybe you should do some research. According to the DES Dam Bureau website, the height of Newfound Lake is right where it is supposed to be and is not at all flooded. He didn't do anything wrong. In fact, bravo to him for thinking outside the box.

http://www.des.state.nh.us/RTi_Home/...found+Lake+Dam

For what it's worth
 

I saw a letter from the State of NH posted at 2 different marinas (I on Winnisquam, the other on Winnipesaukee). The marine patrol was also out in force "educating" those that weren't aware of the new rule. Paugus Bay was definitely quieter than usual, so the 600' rule is at least be helping somewhat. There is still alot of debris in the water, which is a good reason to go slow even if you aren't worried about the property owners and shoreline.

First of all Gusman,


Nice language. You're a class act.

Second of all, you should read my post(s) again. I never called anyone foolish. There was a quote from another forum member that I used.

You're missing the point completely.

I'm just letting people know that Winni has a lot to offer in all of its surrounding towns and areas and it'd be good if we could take care of the environment, businesses, and property of lakeside owners all at once.

After all, we're all in this together.


Jk

Another FWIW
 

No less than three people at Irwin Marine reminded us of the no wake restriction when they put our boat in. This was our first boating of the season and we enjoyed just being out there even if it was just at headway speed most of the time. Very light boat traffic in Paugus, and as others have observed, about 80% compliance. 20% are jerks, which seems like the typical ratio for most things.:rolleye2:

KOTL

Enough Already!
 

First of all, I don't think I accused him of "something utterly destructive", but more like being inconsiderate and thoughtless. Newfound's levels are one thing, but I know that lake well and it is certainly not the size or character of lake anyone should be "bombing" around on at any time. Also, the tone and words used in his post were not, I believe, appropriate for this forum. I'm sorry you didn't like my comment, but I think his was just grossly inappropriate.

Now, if he had said respectfully something like, "I looked up Newfound's levels (and, are you even sure he knew that before he went there?) and finding them to be at normal levels, spent a nice day fishing there instead," then I wouldn't have had a problem. But, that's not what was said or how it was said.

As for Newfound, did you happen to notice in those charts how rapid the draw down was from the dam? Don't you wonder how the people below that dam feel about that? Imagine if that were done at Winnipesaukee? Good grief! I imagine there is someplace I can go look up if that rapid draw down did do damage, but frankly I'm getting off this computer today and going out to enjoy our beautiful weather for a change.

Anyway, none of this diminishes the fact that the NWZ on Winni. should have been lake-wide, not just for 600ft., and it was just a wrong decision by the governor. Many of you are saying you see 80% compliance, but it only takes one big jolt of waves from one boat to do damage. 20% is still 20% too many. I've had enough of this, though. I hope you all have a nice weekend. Get outside and enjoy it!

(p.s. In another thread, Bizer says Newfound had been 28" above level on 5/15! Ya' think they might have been a little nervous there about boats out on their lake this weekend regardless of what the charts show? Also, Right On!, JK; we are all in this together!)

WOW! It is amazing how fast the topic of not enough water in the lake can go polar opposite...too much water. YIKES!!

Not Even!
 

Just in for lunch and wanted to report what I'm observing as boaters zip around Little Mark Island...full speed ahead! No 20% observance here! They're barely even observing the 150 ft. rule! As I said right along...the MPs should have had a boat stationed in each of the large bays. This whole thing has become nothing but a joke. It may just take a little longer for the waves to hit shore. I could practically build a whole new dock with the stuff washing up on our shore! Groan....:(

And...uh, mcdude...I wouldn't be out there in my kayak today if my life depended on it; 'cause it would. What a mess!

Thanks for the heads up, MJP. I had pretty much come to the same conclusion. Other than this glorious weather, the other nice thing I've noticed about this week-end is NO BUGS!!!

:look:

You're right... I apologize for the language...
Inappropriate phrase used without thinking and
without hostile intent.

Gusman

Also... I edited the offending reply out of the original message...

Not trying to hide from it... just cleaning it up.

Gusman

Poor MPs
 

I feel so sorry for the Marine Patrol. We had so many violators, including a few PWCs doing wheelies no more than 60ft. from our shore (for hours!), I finally started calling the Marine Patrol around 1:00 pm. 4 calls later and they still didn't show and my husband started getting really fed up. I think he probably made another 5 or 6 calls. At 5:20 pm, they FINALLY showed and of course everyone had cleared out for supper (and/or because he was there) and all was (fairly) calm.

I'm telling you I'm ready to bust a gasket! I watched two kayakers have to hold on to each other not 10 ft. off my shore so they wouldn't be tipped over by the waves. When the MP got here we told him exact descriptions of the PWCs and showed him what house they were at. He came back and told us, "They have them all covered up and denied everything!" Well, of course! Then he told me he'd need me to, and you all know this bit of insanity, "Get their bow numbers!"

My word, people, what is it going to take to get some sanity into our NH government!!! I think I'm living in a parallel universe, because it just seems that no one in Concord is getting it! :eek: I'm beginning to believe the state motto is mis-stated, it might as well read, "Live Free AND die," because I feel like I must be dead...no one is listening!

The MP can't be everywhere at once. If people are being irresponsible and you know where their dock/house is, go over there and inform then of the no wake rule. Much of it is innocent - many people not boating from marinas have no idea about the no wake restriction. Above all, relax and enjoy the holiday. :)

Not such a quiet weekend after all...
 

Tolerable as Saturday was, today was awful.

You could have told me that the No-Wake Rule had been rescinded at 2PM today, and I'd have believed you. (And the exhaust-noise abatement rule, too).

I re-learned something about wakes: You can make a huge arc with your boat and the inside, more curved, wake will triple in intensity and size as it reaches the shore: One of the biggest wakes crashing against my dock today was made by a ski-boat close to the opposite shore, one-half mile away.

They constructed my dock really well in 1985, but my neighbor's much newer docks have been taking a beating. One neighbor has a dock made with mahogany decking. What that's going to look like after a month of this -- is anybody's guess.

There appears to be more debris in the water today than yesterday, and nobody's slowing to pick up any of it.

These aren't the boaters of 1984. (Or 1998, for that matter). :(

Perspective...yours vs. mine
 

Oh, don't worry; we DID inform them and as I said, they just denied everything they were doing. We went over and had a discussion of the 3 rules they were breaking over and over and what it was doing to the wildlife and all of our docks. They still lied to the MP 4 hours later! I've been through this enough times to know the routine, believe me! There is not a thing the regular law abiding citizen/victim can do.

This isn't about the MPs. It's about Gov. Lynch making the tourist dollar more important than the safety of the wildlife, the public, and our property. He put the MPs in an impossible position. They are hugely understaffed and underpaid. It IS about Lynch not looking at the whole picture. As someone said in another post, this is worse than no ruling at all.

Clearly you must not live on the shores of one of the affected lakes or are in an area not as exposed as we are. We've all been just holding our breaths here waiting for someone to get hurt or our boats or docks to get bashed with trash or snapped off in whole or part. If you were sitting there watching your dock (which has always been very secure) being thrashed about, as well as your boat and those of your neighbors, you would not be having such a nice weekend either.

Glad you're enjoying it; I'm not and won't be until all these self-centered fools get off the water. Then we can gear up for the invasion of 500,000 +/- more people who could also care less about the preservation of the NH Lakes Region in about 2 more weeks... Zoom Zoom... It is so sad to see what has happened here in the last 20 years. And, I think we're supposed to call this "progress", right?

No wake zone
 

It is with amusement and disgust that I have read some of the postings and replies. The words selfish, arrogant, and seldf centered cross my mind. I feel soory for the merchants with the poor winter and rainy weekends as well as the landowners who have property destroyed by the flooding. What I can't understand is the people who have no regard for others or their property as well as no regard for their safety or the safety of others. I have heard many times " no one owns the lake" or "we have the same rights to the lake as the propery owners". Consider this before you speed across the lake, in violation of the law, or reply in anger to others thoughts. God owns the lake because hemade it. He has given all of us the privelege of using it and enjoying it. Also, along with rights are respect and responsibility. It is a privelege to use the lake, not a right, and that privelege is constatntly earned by being respectful of others and rsponsible in followingh the rules and laws set forth.
Life is too short, Slow down, stop and smell the roses. They really doo smell very nice. YIS, doc

mjp, it sounds to me that you might never be happy or content around people having a good time in ways that you do not approve of. so why don't you move to a nice secluded place with no one around ? you cant change other people by complaining, you can only change your own attitude.

My husband is up today doing some seasonal chores. The water is unbelievably high...he's been coming to the lake his whole life and had never seen it this high. Our dock is taking a pounding he says...not many observing the NWZ w/in 600' of shore...hell not ever our neighbors are he said. MJP I know how furstrated you are we have similar neighbors. Their favorite thing to do is let their 12 yr. old kids and friends out on the jetski's alone....they do it all the time. I've called MP so many times it's on speed dial..they've never show up. Foster it doesn't sound like to me that MJP is upset about people having a good time in ways he does not aprove of..it sounds as if all he wants is for people to have thier good times w/in the confines of the law. Funny that he's the one you pointed out in your post..and not the people who were breaking the law.

Let me preface this by saying I have looked at, but NOT read, all the posts on this topic.

One thing that keeps coming through to me, especially in some of the later posts, is the lack of response by MP to calls for violations.

During the 45/25 discussion it was pointed out by myself and a number of others that perhaps MP forces need to be expanded and a couple of ideas on how to fund the expansion were presented.

Another item that someone posted during the 45/25 debate. I don't know what has come of it but I think it's a great idea. IIRC someone posted the Laconia paper was thinking about adding the Marine Patrol to their police call list. Publishing the calls that are logged into MP and how they were handled.

It might be interesting to see what they are doing and how many boats they have on the lake during peak periods. It would give us more information about whether they are underfunded and overworked, or just an agency that needs to get their act together.

Have you ever passed a car that was doing the speed limit? have you ever slightly rolled a stop sign? should i call the cops on you when i see it, no i dont think so. maybe a little more Live and let live, unless a person is being hurt by another then i would step in. when the wind blows are you going to call the cops on mother nature? when its all over and the water goes down, go help your neighbors rebuild their dock and live your life.

[QUOTE=foster]Have you ever passed a car that was doing the speed limit? have you ever slightly rolled a stop sign? should i call the cops on you when i see it, no i dont think so. maybe a little more Live and let live, unless a person is being hurt by another then i would step in. when the wind blows are you going to call the cops on mother nature? when its all over and the water goes down, go help your neighbors rebuild their dock and live your life.[/QUO


No the police shouldn't be called I agree with you there. Now let's take it a step further. What if I was speeding by your home 25 times a day? What if you had kids who rode their bikes..walked to friends houses on that very same road I was speeding up and down on?? Would you call the police then? I bet you would. That's how I feel. You ride by my home at ungodly speeds and put my family or property in danger...I'm going to call the police.

huh?
 

KonaChick,
i know what your saying but speeding by a house in a car is a lot different then speeding by your house on a boat, do you swim across the lake more then 60' away from your house? prob. not and if you are then you shouldn't, if someone comes closer to your house will swiming then you should call but, that aren't damaging anyone.

Apparently No No Wake Unless You Want To
 

I just got back to the Boston after a weekend up at the Lake. We did get out on the boat both Saturday and Sunday. We boat out of Wolfeboro. I saw very few boats following the No Wake rule. Nor did it seem to me that anyone at Goodhue hawkins was advising boaters of the rule. Saturday was a little windy and there were not as many boats out when we were at around 4, but even in Wolfeboro Bay the boats were popping right up to speed and pushing a wake as soon as they got away from the docks. On Sunday, there were may more boats out and even less compliance. We motored over to Alton Bay and as we came to the area of Echo Point (where I think it would be tough to keep 600 feet from either shore) we saw all of these boats coming out at headway speed and I thought at least there the word was out. A little further in the Bay I saw why. There was a MP boat cruising out. CLearly noncompliance was not just a lack of knowledge. I saw one boat passing all the others at headway speed, probably not even following the 150 foot rule as to other boats, and he immediately powered down when he saw the MP boat, which I had hoped would be pulling him over. There seems very limited enforcement of the rules. Has NH ever considered something similar to the Coast Guard Auxillary to help out on the lake? Auxillary volunteers have been very helpful to the Coasties with little expense as they are volunteers.

Perhaps a silly question, but if folks are worried about their docks taking such a beating, why not just pull them out until the water goes down?

Except for Goodhue, which I didn't see, your observations match mine. :look:

Sunday was somewhat windier than today and Saturday, and did a better job of "covering up the evidence". (Many boats could spread a big wake and go faster+ than headway). Today was calm with somewhat better compliance, but full of exhaust >>koff<< >>koff << fumes , like most calm weekend days.

It seems that the 600' rule was neglectful of those dock owners without a breakwater which, in my neighborhood, is about 95% (without breakwaters). Remember,
"The 600' Rule Was a Compromise of Competing Interests", which were tourism and...and...and...I forgot the other one. http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7629/stupid17dq.gif

There was a Marine Patrol Auxiliary but was disbanded, according to a 2002 letter written to the Granite State News following a hit&run fatality. The writer, from Tuftonbboro, appeared upset that the MP Auxiliary's work—restricted to a floating advisory role—went under-appreciated.

BTW: Today offered an opportunity to put out water-filled garbage cans on the "high" side of my dock that had developed from last week's heavy winds and high water. Thanks mostly to a boat towing a tube, the affected dock end-piling appears to have nearly "settled back in"!

(Now if the governor can just raise the lake about another 4 inches, I should be able to get it perfectly level). ;)

Where do I leave dock sections?
 

I keep my boat at Fay's and I didn't see any signs announcing the no-wake rule. If I hadn't read about it here, I wouldn't have known. Saw MP several times but they weren't enforcing the no-wake rule.

Three or four sections of different docks have washed up on my beach. Two of them look to be of standard size and I thought it might be a good idea to drop them off someplace where they can be claimed by people looking to replace the sections they've lost. Any ideas about where I could leave them?

I did
 

I did move to a place like that almost 20 years ago, but then people like you showed up. Your avatar says it all...then there's mine...

Hotdog this is all in reference to our property being damaged by large wakes because of the high water.....I'm saying that the reference to sliding through a stop sign or someone passing me on the highway speeding isn't a good one because the large wakes rolling across my beach and dock due to boats not obeying the law ARE doing damage...it's NOT as trivial as the comparison of sliding through a stop sign or someone passing you on the highway over the speed limit. People just aren't getting it. :confused:

A great many docks on the lake are permanent, installed either on pilings driven down into the lake bottom or on cribs which contain large rocks to secure the dock to the lake bottom. Only "seasonal" docks can be raised up out of the water.

Nobody seems to get that there are competing interests...

Bottom line is that 600' was a reasonable compromise. As I predicted, nobody is really happy with it. I really don't think that the word got out as well as it should have. That might have been somewhat intentional. We do need the tourist $$$ to help pay for all of the flood damage.

I did witness an MP boat stationed in Paugus Bay for most of the day Sat & Sun. He was pretty busy "informing" people of the NWZ. Paugus was pretty calm...

Woodsy

I'd think any dock built to survive ice would have an easy time with water and would not be in danger. If not, perhaps a re-design is in order. I doubt this'll be the last flood.

This a great opportunity for folks to fix weaknesses in design and implementation. Seems to me, that would a better way to spend time than fretting about wakes. If folks really care about maintaining their property in it's current state, they should do what is necessary to prevent it from changing.

Grow Up?
 

Grow Up? I think you need to grow up a bit yourself.

Maybe it was a knee jerk reaction; but I'd been trying to find out the status of the lake all week, and all we got was "there's nothing wrong up here, come on up". I boat all the way down Paugus Bay. That makes going anywhere with at no wake a 2 hour trip, one way. Sorry, that's not boating to me (me i said, your opinion may differ).

I made one comment that we were going somewhere else, and you've decided to attack me. Maybe it was a little whiney, but I wasn't happy with how the information was getting out. I vented. I know that's something new to this site, sorry i offended/bothered you.

We go up every weekend and I consistently put 150 hours on my boat each year. We save those non boating days for bad weather weekends. No need to start that now (again, my opinion).

You're Missing My Point Again...
 

All you need to do is go back and look at my original post. It just talks about all of the other things Winnipesaukee and the Lakes Region has to offer besides actually being on the lake.

It benefits everyone when people are up there for a long holiday weekend.

When people say they're going to go somewhere else because they can't be "zipping" around the lake, I get a little defensive and for that I apologize.

I love being on the water as much as the next guy, but I'd rather be at Winni (NWZ or not) than any where else on earth. And I've been to some pretty amazing places.

Why can't you "get it"?
 

Most people who have permanent docks have winter circulators. These are simply machines that keep the water moving, do no harm to the environment, and keep ice from forming around these docks in winter. Even these are no match for Mother Nature, however. Even the most sturdily built dock with multiple circulators cannot battle against ice floes. A few years back one of my neighbors, who has a very sturdy dock and circulators, stood there and watched a big chuck of ice during ice-out take away 1/2 his u-dock in seconds. That was over $5,000 in damage in a blink of an eye. There is simply nothing anyone can do when nature takes its course. So, I wish people would stop trying to blame shore owners and scold them for not having sturdy docks.

As for floods and waves... Like ice, we can't control or predict flooding. No one ever saw this perhaps-once-in-a-lifetime type of situation coming, not even the weathermen. We do the best we can with the money we have to keep our docks from letting go and causing public danger. No one could predict the kinds of beatings our docks would take last fall and now again this spring. But, the thing is, there are NO MACHINES that can stop wave action, and this CAN BE CONTROLLED by people, so it should have been.

So, please stop criticizing us and realize we are as much concerned about public safety and danger to wildlife as we are about our own property damage, maybe even more. A dock can be rebuilt, but a child getting hurt while tubing (yes, they did it in the fruit salad of debris right in front of our house on Sunday) or a loon nest with eggs destroyed just so someone can get an adrenaline rush, is unthinkable.

Hope this is the last time I have to reiterate this...:rolleye1:

MJP, very good post....you are right on with your comments.......

Now I am new here and trying not to blast people.....and of course at the momment can't even tell you who made the comment....but someone in this thread, posed the question of why not just take a seasonal dock out. Well for those that have never put a dock in or out let me just say....it is not that easy. I would have loved to have taken my dock out....as welll as my nieghbors (my aunt and uncles) but....I can't do it be myself....I have to get help to help me, which is usually not a problem....but to ask someone to give up thier weekend to help me.....and then be left to ask the same person to help me a few weeks later....come on...

For a situation that happens so seldom....people should just grow up....and realize that once or twice in thier lives they may not be able to what they want when they want..............