...to the editor!
 

Hey jcr, if like you say, I've already created a felony then maybe I should be expecting the sheriff's dept to come haul me away to jail. Hopefully, I'll get sentenced to the State Prison in Laconia because it has a good view of Paugus Bay! New Hampshire is the most terrific place to live. Go to prison here and you end up incarcerated on waterfront property.....what a very nice state!

From today's Laconia Daily Sun, an interesting letter to the editor sent in by B.B. of Gilford.

"Both Flynn, Barrett should be at speed limit hearing"

"To the editor:
It seems as though the boating speed limit hearing Sept 25, 10 a.m., should be attended by both Commissioner Flynn, who will make the decision about speed limits on the big lake, and Director Barrett, who doesn't have an opinion about speed limits but is very vociferous about them, to make the majority of N.H. voters understand why speed laws can't be enforced when no other law enforcement agency, in this state or others, has a problem.
Maybe they can also tell us why, when there is no speed law in effect, they keep telling us there is no data relating to accidents related to speed in New Hampshire. They may also be able to explain why they feel a speed limit wouldn't make lake Winnipesaukee a much safer place for ourselves and our families, even the tourists and weekenders would like to hear an answer to that.
Please attend the hearing Sept. 25, 10 a.m, at the Meredith Community Center. We might all learn something, like we are going to continue this effort until a speed limit is put in place."

B.B.
Gilford

If it's the incident I think you're referring to, it didn't happen on Winni (or even in NH) and Winni is the body of water the speed limit folks are focused on so it really isn't relevant.

After reading that closing statement, maybe "unecessary and foolish" is a pretty good argument after all...

Well, you know I'm not a lawyer or even a law enforcement officer, so my opinion isn't enough to put you in jail. Besides, I'm sure the "I was just kidding" defense would be accepted in this case. If you want to test the legality of selling your vote, I suggest you place an add in the Citizen and see what happens.

So did anyone go and want to offer a summary or recap? Is there another public hearing scheduled or a date set for a decision?

Hearing results according to WMUR-TV
 

This is the report as filed by WMUR-TV. They claim that speakers were about evenly split on the issue. I am sure there will be much more in tomorrow's Union Leader & the Foster's/Citizen papers.

Skip

Is that accurate?

I thought the speed limit folks chose going this route in order to bypass the legislative process (which they lost once) and that the commissioner has the final yay or nay decision.

Here's the NH Union Leader's article:

http://www.unionleader.com/article.a...5-364e0b83f4b7

Equivalent-size lake with no speed limit. Was there a boating forum that didn't carry "the incident" country-wide? (Maybe world-wide?)

Now I'm reading that Commissioner Flynn (with four more years left on his appointment by the governor), needs to reach the S/L decision. That's one way to define "non-starter". :rolleye1:

Joint Legislative Committee on Administrative Rules
 

Under the procedures for establishing Administrative Rules, the submitting agency (in this case the Commissioner's Office) after holding the required public comment period, submits the proposed rule for adoption. During a 45/60 day window following this submission a ten member legislative committee (made up of five members of the House & five from the Senate) can move to modify or kill the proposed rule. If they do so it starts a whole new subset series of actions.

If the Joint Legislative Committee on Administrative Rules takes no action during the allowed review process then the rule becomes law for a certain window of time, depending on the type of rule invoked.

You can read and learn about the entire process here.

Skip

Send in your opinion
 

Make your opinion known - by October 1.

Office of Safety Commissioner
C/O Richard Flynn
James H. Hayes Safety Building
33 Hazen Drive, Concord, N.H. 03305

I was there...

It was the same arguments and horror stories heard last year. The sponsors of the petition had no new info other than thier horror stories and the requisite Lake George comparisons... They did bring up some of the boat accidents on other lakes, however none of those lakes have a 150' Safe Passage law. The opponents of the petition (myself included) presented the simple fact that while boat registrations are up yet again, accidents are down. Out of the 102,000 registered boats in the state there was only one speed related accident... the Bass boat that flipped over on Ossipee Lake.

To paraphrase Ben Franklin... those that would give up liberty for safety deserve neither....

Woodsy

Since this is an electronic forum, perhaps the following info is in order:

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...208/-1/CITIZEN

Don't you need an @ in an email address.

Maybe it's:

safety-hearings@safety.state.nh.us

APS, Equivilant sized lake with no speed limit or not it isn't relevant since the speed limit folks are now focused ONLY on Winnipesaukee and are claiming Winni is frightening and dangerous.

There is nothing backing up their argument except their own fear, wish to eliminate a class of boat from the lake and desire to turn back the clock to the days when the classic wooden boat was king.

Unless I misunderstand the following rule, the Commissioner of Public Safety already regulates the types of activities that you bring up and can deny the permit and/or require the folks to take special precaution.

As my tracking of boating accidents in NH have shown, there have been no accidents on Winnipesaukee this year related to speed.

For anyone who might not know what we are writing about. The was an accident that left 5 people dead during a Poker Run on an Oklahoma lake over Labor Day weekend.

The link to the AP story via Boston dot Com is here:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...ake_killing_5/

Skip: Does the administrative rule give a time frame for the commissioner to make his recommendation to the legislative committee?

Time frames for Administrative Rules
 

This is where the whole process becomes very complicated. Using this particular process you are basically allowing Department Heads with a handful of the members of the Legislature to enact and enforce rules that have the full effect of law. The law wisely forces the individuals involved in this process to tread very carefully!

There is much latitude to allow the entity making the proposal to extend the public hearing deadline, add additional public hearings and add additional time to the public comment process. In addition, if the members of the JLCAR so choose, they can hold additional public hearing and public comment periods while ammending the proposed rule!

In a nutshell, if the Commissioner does choose to go forward with a proposal the final adoption could stretch out in excess of six months.

If the Commissioner chooses not to go forward with a proposal I would suspect we would know those intentions within 30 to 60 days.

Like any piece of legislation that works it way through the halls of Concord, the process can become very complicated and highly convoluted with time.

I suspect the good folks in the local media covering this current proposal will keep us abreast of the situation as it develops! :)

Skip

How true, how true...

So much for quoting the Media...

From the Bureau of Hearings' web page regarding contact info:

mailto:safety-hearings@safety.state.nh.us

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/h...contactus.html

P.S.- Thanks for correcting the error in my post.

Speed Limit
 

Here we go again.. Ive lived on Winni for 40 years ! I think we can all agree that there are some problem areas on the weekends.. Lets have a speed limit in these areas, perhaps more expanded no wake zones like we have had the past couple years.. From where im sitting the biggest problem is lack of education.. To me anyone who does not know the right of way laws or know who the stand on or stand down boat is doesnt belong out there ..and there are plenty of them ! How about a 10,000 LB limit .. the big cruisers are the worst wave makers and law breakers ..Too big to slow down or give way ..WRONG !
I have to laugh when I go out in the boat after labor day.. There is noone out there !
I would also suggest that the non voting proponents worry about making laws at home , not were they visit for 20 days each year !

Concord Monitor letter to editor 9/30
 

The real issue? Kayaks

Here we go again. Another attempt at a speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee.

Reducing the speed on the lake instead of enforcing the laws already in place will not make a difference. There have been no accidents on Lake Winniesaukee attributed solely to high speed.

If safety is the real concern, how about banning canoes and kayaks that are blue, gray, or any color that is hard to see on the water? Why not stiffer penalties for violations such as the night we were in Alton Bay and a fleet of no fewer than six six kayaks were paddling well after dark with no lights of any kind? We could not even see them in the picture we took with a flash camera.

How about mandatory training and use of preservers in all self-propelled vesses. There have been far more deaths in these type of craft than in high-speed performance boats in New Hampshire.

A speed limit is a panacea that will have no real positive effects. The speed limit is a smokescreen attempt to turn Lake Winnipesaukee into a private playground for the exclusive few that own waterfront property. Winnipesaukee is a public lake and should be accessible to everyone who wishes to enjoy it. Current laws are more than adequate to maintain and promote safety on the lake. What is needed is adequate funding of the Marine Patrol to enforce the existing laws.

C.C. Concord

The way I see it is , it's a smoke screen to rid the lake of a certain type of boat and nothing more. If these proponents were SO concerned with safety the would have a "headway" speed limit for nights. I've been out at night (without a moon) when you couldn't see diddley squat past the bow light and 25 mph would be rediculous. I see their misguided logic as an end run around the fact that they simply can't post signs at all boat ramps...

NO PERFORMANCE BOATS

Correct me if I'm wrong:o

You are wrong, consider yourself corrected.

Then why oh why is the night time speed limit SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO high when you could be operating in near ZERO visbility....HUH?:confused:

Oh , I got it. The sign is wrong , it should be...

NO PERFORMANCE BOATS ON OUR LAKE

:rolleye1: :rolleye1:

The visibility might be zero, but it also could be a full moon. Speed limits are the MAXIMUM.

The maximum speed on rt95 is 65 MPH. In a snow storm that would be way to fast. Most people understand this principle.

The same applies to one's speed on the Lake. It's called common sense.

It's also a Law (RSA).

Laws (RSAs)
Chapter 270
Section 270:29-a Careless and Negligent Operation of Boats.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...0/270-29-a.htm

Unfortunately, a few do not understand this principle and are pushing for a speed limit on the Lake.

I remember a fisherman telling me of almost being run over by the Mount in a fog during daylight hours and then there was the court situation involving the Sophie C and a woman boater and the 150 rule - the Sophie C lost.

If the Lake is so unsafe, how did the steamboaters, J-boaters, and rowers ever have their events on the Lake without incident, recently?

Well the next time I'm on the lake in a snow storm I'll keep it well under 65:laugh:
I just can't "Bear " it anymore.

As Forrest Gump said many times "That's all I've got to say about that";)

I've wondered about this for a while (say 40 years!) When there is fog on the lake I have never heard the Mount or any other commercial vessel (or any vessel) sounding fog horns. A long blast
(5 seconds) of your regular horn once every two minutes if I recall without looking it up. (Edit; I looked it up, rule 35)

I do recall the owner of a boat dealership telling me the story of how he was almost run down in the fog by a classic wooden boat near Sandy Point in Alton Bay years ago. He said he knew were he was going but this boat just apeared out of the fog. Neither was sounding a horn!
Speed limit issues?, I doubt it. Rules issue, yep!

If it were left to me, a non voting taxpayer that I am told should mind my own business even though I pay more taxes than most year round residents for my 20 days. (To tell you the truth it was only 10 days this year!)

I would make only two changes to the following rule that already exists, the changes would be elimiate the word "Power" and change misdemeanor to felony!

Any objections?

If those changes were made then folks arrested this past spring for drunk boating in a canoe, that endangered the lives of several folks not to mention the people who rescued them, would be charged with a felony instead of just handed a ticket, as would that bonehead kid who took his mother's boat and ran it onto Eagle Island in addition to BWI!

Why isn't a closing speed of 330 miles per hour a possibility on Lake Winnipesaukee? :confused:

changing words
 

Airwaves, I totally agree with you. a person in any boat, of any type could be a danger to others when and if they do something stupid.

Our country is always adding laws, but seems that they fail to enforce the laws that are on the books already. And until they enforce the laws, the education given will not matter. People seem to push themselves into situations that the know are illegal until they get caught.

Speed limits on the lake are already their for those that care to use "common sense" How do you educate common sense? The Marine Patrol has done better I think this year then in the past but more is needed and the 150' rule is the best example of lack of common sense. Coarse the MP needs to be educated on what is 150' and what is not. (3 football fields is a tad more than 150')

I have said it before, limit speeds in the bays, and let the broads do what they want.:eek:

Laws
 

I have never heard any of the proponents acknowlege the idea of localized speed limits at all. The only thing they will settle for is a blanket speed limit on the entire lake. Why is that ? Its obvious to anyone who uses the lake on a regular basis or goes beyond their own general area that a lakewide speed limit is overkill.
I would also question why a non voting taxpayer who only visits the area 10 days a year would want to impose laws on people who LIVE and WORK here. Thereby raising everyones taxes to pay for this legislation ?
Im curious how many of the proponents are full time residents ?

Results of Union Leader poll

http://www.unionleader.com/article.a...5-aa1fa4c37b07

Residents ?
 

"Recreational boating is supposed to be enjoyable," said speed limit supporter Frank Marino. "When people are scared, there is no enjoyment and they are being denied the recreational experience that Lake Winnipesaukee is supposed to be offering to all of NH's citizens."

Heres another Mass resident claiming to speak for all of New Hampshires residents..
Why not recreate on a lake in MA with a speed limit if its so bad here ?

Apparently the public comment period ended at the close of the business day this past Monday. According to the Laconia Citizen the hearings officer says it will take "a while" to go through all the comments.

Link to article below, requires free registration:

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...73258848242456


I guess I must have missed the official estimate of speed, last I read it was still under investigation and I don't believe it was a head-on collision of two boats doing 165 miles an hour. One victim's racer was equipped with engines capabile of that, but no one has said he was doing even close to that speed. So now you want to limit engine size as well as impose a speed limit?

If you are talking about me, since the nonvoting taxpayer is my signature and I wrote that I was only at the lake 10 days this year, then you have to re-read my posts. I oppose a speed limit. There are sufficient laws on the books already if MP chooses to enforce them.
edit to correct spelling!

My appolagies :D

That is why some of us that look for the comprimise sent a letter to the state. There are some areas where the speed limit makes sense, and we all know where they are. And my firm belief is that those areas should have a speed restriction with a heathy fine. But the rest of the lake should be open...Just like driving a car there are multiple speed zones....so why not on the water.... makes sense to me... so I let the state know how I felt and I hope others did too.....

I went looking for the winnfab website. It's always good to know who the opponents are, and now and again they might be right!

However after a google search, and doing a winnfab.com and .org search, I couldn't find them:eek:

Do they still exist? Are they behind the latest speed limit attempt or did they slide into the dark and removed themselves? :rolleye1:

I am sure some folks on the forum will know the answer to this question :look:

You needed to add an "s"
 

Oh NO-O-O-O-O-O
 

Another setback for the speed limit folks.Meredith News headline this week......"RADAR GUNS HAVE TOUGH TIME CLOCKING SOME WATERCRAFT"....Jeesh...
one thing after another.

Updates ???
 

I really hate the thought of getting the Forum blood pressure rising again and getting a series of rehashed (HB162) threads .............

But ...........

Has anyone heard what's happening ....... quiet scares me!!:eek:

And finally, yes I'm against any form of "Daylight" speed limits for those curious.

boating speedlimit
 

I hear that they are gonna do a trial run on boat speed limit. But they are going to use 40 MPH daytime and 20 MPH night time. This will in fact limit the type of boating people on the Big lake are use to. They are going to start this trial on Jan 24 2007 and end it on March 31 2007. That should keep you LBGF off the lake for a little while.:emb: