is it a he or a she?
 

Well this has always been a subject that gets interesting. For example, when they pull the USS Enterprise out of water they scrap "Her" bottom. and for a long time is the only female that went to sea on ships. So if they pull the mount are they gonna scrape "her" bottom?

However I have never heard of a car, or truck called a her or he.

:laugh:

Maybe I'm all wet on this but here goes....whatever.....

Here's a couple of items to consider while thinking about the benefits of a new aerial tower truck and/or a town oral hygene program..

The New Hampshire state legislature is considering a bill, HB 301, that allows dental hygienists to practice independantly without being employed by a dentist.

The five selectmen who voted 5-0 in favor of this extremely expensive truck....they all get town paid health insurance that includes dental.

While driving past the Community Center one sees baby sitting lessons, basketball and such activities posted on the signboard. In my opinion, medical programs using local providers would be money better spent than a $750,000 fire truck.

Ya know, if the town can afford "Cadillac" health insurance for its' employees, teachers, police & selectmen then why not some low level medical programs for the residents? Can't hurt to give it a try....and start with basic oral hygene.....you know....brushing, flossing, bleeding gums, plaque....and all that good stuff.... a check-up clinic.....

After all.....who pays the property tax that pays for their health & dental insurance?

Do you have dental insurance?

I believe the correct term is "off topic." :laugh:

I have had dental problems so believe me, I am not making fun of those who need help in that area. The fire truck will have no impact on the local dental health but it will provide flexibility and greater capabilities in the town's response to fire emergencies.

The state's regulation of dental hygenists has no impact on local budget issues. A government's fiscal priorities change form year to year. Partly in response to which need has been ignored the longest and partly due to when and how loud the voters expres their opinion. This is more noticable at the local level.

If dental is really your passion then all I can say is... Better luck next time!

When times are good, we hear "municipal salaries are only 60% of private salaries, but they get good benefits so they don't deserve a raise!" and as soon as the economy turns we hear "the town employees have "Cadillac" benefits that we should cut!" . . . . can't win for losing . . .

Nobody is ever 100% happy with anything...it's the American way!

750K Fire Truck
 

FLL.....sounds like you need to get a town job!!:laugh::laugh:

Ya,they must need a vice president in charge of push-ups.:laugh:

If everyone who drinks "Bottled Water" were to switch over to "Tap Water" they would get FLUORIDE and their teeth wouldn't ROT. Just sayin.. :D

I actually have a reusable water bottle with the Politically Correct..AND SHEIK label on it so everyone can see that I'm in touch. I replenish the water from the Tap. NB

PS: I'm 68 and I still have my own teeth. :)

Only if you are on city water.

Yea, and next time I go to buy a car , or home owners insurance, or grocerys for that matter, I want the cost of the company's health and dental insurance deducted from the price.

Be careful of fluoride: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4XhhTF7vRM

Precious Bodily Fluids: Totally Off Topic...However..

That movie was one of my all time favorites. I remember that guy with the cowboy hat...was it Slim Pickens.? .... Flying out of the bomb bay of that B-52 straddling a nuke bomb. Fire In The Hole...YEE Hah..Those were the days. :D NB

Ugh.
 

A fire rages around your chimney burning thru the roof of your 2.5 story home that is 35 feet high to the peak and it 45 feet back from the road. Your trees prevent the large fire apparatus from driving in close to the scene and your nice new metal roof precludes the use of standard fire service ground ladders for access. Any guess how long of a reach it is for the tower to get to your chimney? (Thats right, a minimum of 80 feet of aerial ladder) Any guess how much safer it is to work from the platform to open the roof to get at the fire than to teeter on ladders (on a wintery metal roof to boot)? Any guess how long it takes to take those same hand thrown ground ladders and move them from window to window on different floors and on different sides of the building rescuing one screaming guest at a time from the hotel? Wanna guess how much easier it is (and how much SAFER) to move from window to window with the bucket and "pick off" those people in groups of 3, 4, or 5 before sending them down the ladder in care of a firefighter, or even better, lowering them directly to the ground?

I am not a Meredith FF nor a Meredith town resident. I am a professional firefighter who, like everyone else in the region, works in a department that does the most it can with the manpower and equipment we have. This truck bought by the town was bought FOR it's residents, tax payers and their property and more importantly their SAFETY. We have a tough job. We still do it, and believe me it is NOT for the "Cadillac" benefits packages. Most of us don't have dental and surely not the top notch insurances. The best thing anyone can do in this instance is to go to the Fire Station, knock on the door and ASK the fire chief and his members about the department, the job, and the new truck and how it affects things. It is their responsibility to inform and educate you and it's your right to know. Ask them, most of us love to talk about our jobs and how it affects the community. You might just walk away richer for the experience.

It's nice of you (and everyone else) to offer some descriptions/justifications of the 100' ladder truck. I don't think any of the normal and rational people here ever called the purchase into question though. You're basically tilting at windmills trying to argue with people comparing fire trucks to dental plans.

Just use the "ignore" feature and move on...

Maybe a certain person just found out he has gingivitis? :eek:

Dental Care
 

Let it go the first time but can't again

750,000 at 5% interest for 20 years = $60,000 per year.

If they put all of the money into your mouth and didn't buy a truck...

$60,000 / 6617 residents = $9.06 dental benefit per year.

Don't forget to hire someone to administer.

I don't think you can read the magazines in the dentist office for 9 bucks a year.

Free Dental Cleanings
 

FLL,

You can get FREE, yes FREE dental cleanings at the Concord campus of NHTI. They have a dental hygiene program and have students that need clinical patients on a daily basis. You can get your teeth cleaned for free and Meredith still gets their ladder truck. You also help a student get clinical experience. What a deal.

My wife graduated from the program and they were always looking for patients.

FLL,
You could do the town a favor and dress up as Santa for the town parade and you might even be allowed to ride in the bucket of the new truck during the parade. And don't worry about your halitosis, it will be drowned out by the smell of the moth balls from storing the Santa suit.
Cheers!

I am confused, is this a thread about paying a lot for a fire truck or a thread about dental care? :confused:

FLL are you a dentist just trying to drum up some business??? HAHA

I have heard that the fire dept . has been saving money for about 12 yrs to buy this truck. Now I dont know if that was rumor or not but I think it is paid for or pretty close to it. Take it for what is worth but until we know the whole story behind something lets not tear the back out of it just because someone doesnt agree with a decision to do something.
I personally would rather see money spent on a piece of equiptment that WILL save someones life...and you never know it could be yours!!!

Too bad...
 

...that I heard they have already damaged the bucket to this ladder truck and it's gone (being repaired?) from the Meredith FD.

It is heresay, but I don't believe I've seen it in Meredith lately?

For about the last 24 months, the Town of Warren NH, located in Grafton County, way up in the mountains, has been looking for an ice rescue boat.

How do I know? Because the Warren volunteer Fire Dept has been running a craigslist, boat section ad looking for a donation of a 14' flat bottom boat which the fire dept will outfit for ice rescues.

Meredith has a volunteer fire department, but you never see Meredith looking for equipment donations in craigslist. As I recall, a news article from September 2008 reported that Pierce-Arrow Fire Truck of Wisconsin had a new 2008 aerial tower for sale for about $600,000 which was almost the same as the new truck but noooo(!), the Town of Meredith wanted a truck that was just the way they wanted it.....they wanted what they wanted.

While Meredith and Warren are only about a one hour drive away.....their budget and town management is like 50 years different. NH is not really a state....it's more like a collection of 250 different towns and cities, seperate and not at all equal in purchasing power.

If my house catches on fire, I would rather have it burn flat. We had friends who had a fire once and every time we went to visit after it was rebuilt, I could still smell the smoke. I would rather start from scratch.

One hour apart by land, a thousand miles apart economically/socially.

Being a home owner in Meredith my feeling is that it sometimes hard to argue any one purchase when it’s looked at in any single point in time > New police station, New (or re-furbished) fire station, New fire truck, New community center ….

However, the quantity of these large capital purchases in such a short time is what has me concerned. How much did/will the community center cost the town? Did the town know that this would be immediately followed by the new Police Station, Fire Station and then Fire Truck? Just seems like we are in a “we have the money to spend so what do we need” No thought of reducing the taxes on residents if you ask me. What to do as it’s not unlike most other towns I suppose.

I know in my department we have a committee of grant writers, all active volunteers, they look to see what government grants are available for specific equipment and they write up the grant request. We may not get 100% of the money but any little bit helps. Maybe that is what the town did for this new truck. Also, it is not unusuall for the truck to suffer some damage in the first year or two as it is a new piece of equipment that has to be put through the paces for the guys to get used to. You would be amazed at the amount of repairs that most departments have.

Tea Party time
 

That is how Meredith operates. People keep giving them their money, so the powers to be keep spending it. A tax break? Come on now! Way to much Mass influence has crept up to central NH. I predict in '10 or '11 there will be a new DPW and a new library. They will vote on it in Jan or Feb so there won't be any part time residents there. The new fire truck....?? Not money well spent. If the hotels in town need a ladder truck, do as what Loudon did. Have them buy it. Besides, by the time a fire truck reaches my house, it's just ashes.

Damage already!
 

ARV... You're absolutely right!

I heard second-hand that the truck was damaged, from backing into the building! The building is fine, but the brand new truck? $100,000 estimated repairs!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

I would hate to be the person who did it! Yikes!!

You would have thought that after spending all that $$$$$ to renovate and add on to the fire house that they could have designed the larger bays as drive thru style to avoid backing large trucks up. :confused::confused::confused:

I would have thought that they would have insurance to pay for accidental damage? I'm sure they do.:)

Accidents do happen and insurance does exist.

So it wasn't the town's property but it was being driven? So why should the manufacturer pay for something they didn't do? With as much furor as this truck has brought on this board alone I would reconsider posting a smiley that is laughing concerning this issue.

And as far as the mutual aid issue as to why a truck is bought that is hog wash. No town should contemplate the purchase of a vehicle to address the needs of another community. It should be a purchase to address the needs of THAT community SOLELY. If another community calls that resource for emergency as it can be useful in dealing with it, then so be it. I.E., We have two ladder trucks in Laconia, including our own brand new ladder tower to address OUR citizens safety and issues immediately at the onset of incidents.

wah wah wah
 

It's a fire truck, folks. It's designed to save your life and help protect the lives of the firefighters while they are saving you. Their hours suck, their lives are constantly interrupted and they are underpaid, IMO, for putting their lives on the line for us every day. The least we can do is make sure they have the equipment they need to do their job.

Our towns have spent the past few years in a ridiculous competition to outspend each other on one Taj Mahal or another. We have lots to complain about where spending is concerned. A fire truck shouldn't be on that list.

FLL, go to Concord and get your teeth fixed. And hope your overtaxed lakefront doesn't catch on fire while you're there. I'd hate to have you complaining about the gas the new fire truck used to go there and put it out.

Priceless
 

$35,000 for repair sounds more plausible; as I disclaimed, I had heard that $100k price tag second hand.

I for one, wouldn't want to try driving any of those emergency vehicles. A new vehicle is hard enough to get used to, without the added factors of length, height, etc. I always wondered how they get used to driving a truck which has a seat that's already like 6' higher than the ground!

Our firefighters are INDISPENSABLE, and I wouldn't breathe a bad word about them. If my house was on fire, the last thing I would be worrying about is how much the truck cost to put it out. I wouldn't wonder for anyone ELSE's house, either! It's not like it has a hefty price tag because it has flatscreens, DVD players and hot rims... it's a FIRE TRUCK! Everything on it serves a purpose to do a job, to protect our lives and property and the lives and safety of the rescue workers on it. And God Bless Them for Doing it!

"



Agreed!!! Everyone should be supportive.

.....hey ScubaJay......what type of tower truck has Laconia recently purchased? Is it a $750,000, 100' tower, 2009 Pierce with a 5500 gpm pump like what Meredith now has?

Probably, Laconia got their "new" truck at the Saint Vincent dePaul second hand store for twelve dollars because it is a large plastic, toy model fire engine.....nice try.....keep dream'n about a real aerial tower for Laconia :D....!

Dreaming?
 

FLL, I have no clue why I am bothering to justify you're post with a reply but I will.

Since this time last year I have sat on the committee that planned, spec'd out and traveled not once, but twice to Florida on purchasing and inspections and acceptance missions. Not only that but I have driven this "dream" of a ladder truck twice and set it up a handful of times. It has been out and about the last two weeks as the members get trained and familiarized with the unit prior to being put in service.

And for the record it is a 2009 E-One 100 ft ladder tower (no pump or water tank) with front bumper mounted hydraulic rescue tools and numerous other features designed and spec'd by us for our community needs. Unsure of exact figures as we received some grant monies for the unit but I believe it is around $8-900,000 from taxpayers money.

Not sure why you feel the need to be snide and condescending nor why I feel the need to reply to you. But this is for the benefit of the others in this forum who are civil.

Hey ScubaJay,

Thanks for taking the time to write a serious reply and overlooking my snide comments. It's good because it lets people know something about the fire dept.

By the way, Saint Vincent's has some good used, low priced fire truck toys for nice gifts.

As I understand, Laconia is a city of about 18000, and Meredith is a town of about 6000. Laconia has a full time fire dept and Meredith has an on-call, volunteer fire dept.

Maybe I'm a wee bit of a cheapie and probably think different than the Meredith selectmen, but if it were up to me I'd ask this question: Considering that neighboring Laconia already has a 100' tower truck why does Meredith need to buy one, too? Like, how many expensive trucks does the area really need without breaking the property tax payers?

Do any of the surrounding towns of Center Harbor, Moultonborough, Holderness, Gilford, Alton, or Belmont have 100' tower trucks? And, are trucks purchased for each town on an individual town basis or on an area-wide regional basis?

As far as I know, only the City of Laconia out of all the towns mentioned, has a full time, paid fire dept while the others have on-call fire depts. Is it a problem for Meredith and other towns to rapidly rally enough on-call fire fighters to effectively arrive to an emergency? As everyone knows, a fire truck is useless without someone to drive it and additional people to operate it.

Scuba Jay
Thank you for the details. Always interesting to understand the behind the scene workings. I remember a town meeting years ago in our town where we are fortunate enough to have a volunteer force. The chief went through the numbers with the town meeting crowd. The same residents had just argued down the last spending article.

The chief outlined the trade offs of the technology and cost on a new truck we needed. He was questioned on the impact of technology on the need for volunteer head count. Once the attendees understood that spending a bit more would mean that fewer brave men could do more during the early minutes of a response, Someone made a motion to increase the amount to allow the chief to get more truck than he was asking for to maximize the impact of our volunteer force. The motion passed with a vote in the 90 percent range.

Thank you for what you do.

FLL, some good questions, some of which I can not answer, some I can.

As far as why each town may have a similar truck I explained a bit earlier why a town would buy something for it's community and I guess the only bit more I can offer is that the Laconia ladder trucks are first, and foremost for our city and they may not always be available to come to every fire alarm, chimney fire, or house fire in an adjoining community. Belmont has a very similar truck to Meredith's (in pump size, ladder length, etc) and there are additional ladder trucks in Plymouth, Alton, New Durham, Wolfeboro, Bristol, Franklin and Tilton. Note the issue of travel time to other communities if one was to summon one mutual aid. (Gilford gets an engine and ladder truck from Laconia on any reported building fire and they respond with automatic response into the city as well for the same)

And, as you mentioned breaking the taxpayers, why should the taxpayers of these communities fork out the money to buy a unit so other towns don't have to? In some areas of the country this "regional" purchasing works well as the areas are similar in response area. IN this area distance, hills, and varying needs of each community make it hard to say, buy 3 ladder trucks exactly the same, and spread them out in the county as one area may be able to use a tractor trailer ladder truck for wide boulevards and driving areas while the other needs a 500 hp motor and a short wheel base for tight access areas and severe hills.

I can tell you that Gilford, Belmont, Tilton and Franklin all have a 24 hr a day fulltime staff of 2-3 people a shift (not including daytime chiefs and such) all backed by off duty and call FF. Meredith and Alton have fulltime chiefs and call departments and I believe Moultonborough has a couple/three day people and call FF. Don't know about the others. At fires I have been at in Laconia that Meredith has come they always seem to show with a crew of 3-4 on each unit we request but I am usually to busy to notice how long it takes for them to get responding and arrive. For that you would have to ask the fine folks at MFD what the figures are.....

And St. Vincent De Paul does a great service to the community and I am sure that they have some great toys for the kiddies.

RG:
Obviously I have no stake in the Meredith fire truck nor community issues (I live in Gilford and work in the City). I merely wanted to toss some information out to help folks understand the issue a bit better from my "hands on" view. You mention the chief explaining the issue to the crowd and that is the key. Educate, inform and relate the issue to the public (PURSE STRING HOLDERS). When they are given the knowledge people feel they can make better decisions either way they choose to vote. Like I said earlier, it's our duty to educate, inform and relate to the public, and it is their right to know. But if they don't ask, or we don't tell...know one wins.

A fact I can offer:
Soon both of these units will be in service, both departments will be thankful to the taxpayers for allowing us to purchase them to provide better service to them and allow us to do it more safely. Watch the papers, I would imagine stuff will pop up when the training is done and the trucks are ready to respond.