They cooked the data Shed, they lied, then threw out the original data, kept only the cooked data. They colluded, ignored contradicting data, schemed to destroy "deniers". They need to be put in jail for this hoax.

Come on, you know that is so wrong. That is a lie being manufactured by the conservative right wing that wants to destroy the earth in its greed, that is not what happened with the stolen emails. Read the real news!

Here we go
 

Here comes the great Right Wing Conspiracy theory.

Hmmmmm
 

Where is the helpful chat in this? Reasonable people can disagree but why these insults from either camp? I need calm in my life.

Have learned some intersting things from this site though.

Keeping this post focused on Lakes Region temps and impact...

Based on the 7-10 day forecast, we should see quickly declining water temps over the next few weeks. Small ponds here in N-central MA have stated keeping their ice skim well into the day, and I expect to start seeing ice on the edges of the larger ones any day now.

With temps well below freezing at night, and barely above freezing (if at all) during the day, the water gives up heat quickly. I'd say we're on track for a normal ice in early January (+/- a few weeks)

(For those who would like to continue to debate the larger global warming/cooling subject, please do so in another forum more appropriate to the topic)

You are trolling Shed, not the place for this discussion. I would be happy if Don decided to remove both my and your comments on this matter.

I'll leave you with my version of a post in another venue:

Evolution - A theory
Quantum Physics - A theory
_________________________

anthropogenic global warming - "the science is settled"

Perhaps you have forgotten this thread was originally (provocatively) titled "Global Warming", and somehow (still don't know how) it got changed. That is why the first few posts up top ("flak jackets", "no good can come of this", etc.) are the way they are. So originally, this thread was about global warming in the Lakes Region.

Plus, I have received PM's saying things like "get out of town". I still find it hard to believe anyone thinks there is any controversy in Global Warming. Its even more amazing that IF there was disagreement about whether it exists, we wouldn't collectively say "let's not exacerbate the problem until we are sure human activity doesn't cause global warming". Instead, the sentiment seems to be "don't even raise questions if we are causing our own extinction because I don't want to have to change my lifestyle". That seems to me to be the crux of the denial of global warming.

I will agree with ITD to exit the thread. As to the suggestion I am trolling - you should see my first comment on this thread ("...A whole bunch of trolls") which acknowledges this thread was originally started as a put-down of global warming (coming off the windmills thread)- the first few posts (after the first) are by people who saw where it was going...

perhaps we can do what was finally imposed on the Speed Limit thread and everyone could make one final statement and then no more. The above is my final statement on this thread. Hopefully no trolls will bring this to another thread.....

No, I did not forget, and I suggest that the topic was changed because many of us would like to have this forum remain focused on topics and exchanges SPECIFIC to the Lakes Region. That is it's stated goal and something that the webmaster (appropriately) monitors closely.

I realize that global warming debates might be argued to apply as the Lakes Region IS part of the globe. But there are many, many other sites where this topic can be debated as much as anyone would like. It's not appropriate here. So we should either have this be a discussion of Lakes Region, local weather, or it should be deleted.

For The Record...
 

Books. Dallas TX got it's first measurable snow 'Ever' last night, with 3" at DFW Airport! A wonderful white Christmas here! :) :) :) :)
Terry

and very slippery roads. Yikes. No sand or salt on these road down here.

Hi Neighbor...
 

Janet,
here in the Metroplex I was amazed at the great job that TX-DOT and the towns did in sanding the trouble areas, bridges, overpasses, and sections of highways on Christmas Eve. The wind was absolutely howling!
I took my sister Doña and brother in law to DFW airport today for a flight to England to visit with family there for New Years.
Although they don't use rock salt here, as the temperature usually rebounds quite rapidly after an event such as this moves through, it was very evident that all of the roads, to & from were well sanded and pretty much back up to speed.

A Very Happy New Year to Y'All,
Terry

Hi trfour
 

Glad you got to DFW ok. The roads here in Plano were not as good. Early Christmas morning couldn't go over 20 miles an hour. I wanted to wait until the sun came up to melt the roads but had 2 little ones waiting for me to arrive so they could see what Santa had brought them. Looks like more precip coming tomorrow.

Happy New Year to you also!

Mother Nature Will Prevail...
 

I am 100% for reducing air pollutants, however of all the studies done over time, ice core and earths crust drilling's, long time studies have shown that when the earth has warmed, it was also followed by an ice age. "I did not make this up".

Now, some of today's scientists, are trying their best to override Mother Nature.

Do Trust in Her!!!!

Experts?; Despite cold Snap, earth still warming.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34735022/ns/weather/

I think that they are looking for a way to blame the next ice age on earth's warming. :)

Terry
__________________

Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. - Bertrand Russell ( 1872-1970)

Good post TR. To add to the argument, Cuba had a low of 29, the lowest temp it's EVER recorded.

More Mistakes Uncovered...
 

Today on MSN; http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34958926...s-environment/

More Mistakes
 

And isn't it interesting that all their "mistakes" were one-way, mistakes that supported their arguement? That adds up to ZERO credibility in my book. Try making those kind of one-way "mistakes" on your tax return and see what the IRS does. :laugh:

What Does Mother Nature Have In Common With...
 

Argue?... NONE.

Invade Her space, Get a Big Slap In The Sn otter! :)

Our very great discoverers, try as they may, want to argue...

Again, one of our very own put this practice into prospective. " Invade Her Space, will bring an Lightening strike, as to a long pine in the forest!... Read it and weep! " The Late, Charles Dickens."


Argue was stricken from my vocabulary at a very young age, and some light will be shed and forthcoming in my blog.

Terry

________________

¿sɹǝʌɹǝs ʍǝu ǝɥʇ ɥʇıʍ op oʇ ƃuıɥʇʎuɐ ǝʌɐɥ sıɥʇ pןnoɔ ˙ʍou ʇsod ı uǝɥʍ ɯǝןqoɹd ɐ ǝʌɐɥ oʇ ɹɐǝddɐ ı



Stay tuned friends...

Nasa's report
 

Here's NASA's analysis that the last decade was the warmest ever. Do we assume they are corrupting the numbers too?

The article explains the cold weather this year in Cuba and North America. Their conclusion, In the past three decades, the GISS surface temperature record shows an upward trend of about 0.36 degrees F (0.2 degrees C) per decade. In total, average global temperatures have increased by about 1.5 degrees F (0.8 degrees C) since 1880.

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2010...est_temps.html

GISS <GODDARD Studies Space for Institute>uses publicly available data from three sources to conduct its temperature analysis. The sources are weather data from more than a thousand meteorological stations around the world, satellite observations of sea surface temperatures, and Antarctic research station measurements.

Other research groups also track global temperature trends but use different analysis techniques. The Met Office Hadley Centre in the United Kingdom uses similar input measurements as GISS, for example, but it omits large areas of the Arctic and Antarctic where monitoring stations are sparse.

frozen lake and lots of rain
 

My question is what will happen to the lake with 1-3 inches of rain. I know that the rain/water will sit on top of the lake until it freezes or runs off. What will happen to all of that water comming down from the mountians?
Will it put prressure on the underside of the ice? Will it just run in and them out at the dam?:confused:

It may melt it a little bit, but I'm more worried about street flooding because all the strorm drains are clogged with snow, or will get clogged when snow washes into them!

Interesting Formula...
 

The Dam operators here at Lake Winnipesaukee seem to be, and are very much more intuned to our Lakes happenings. They remain and adjust to.

OH and Ya, they keep ( The Hat On )... They are adjusted to the conditions here, ON THE GROUND......

Now, my wish for some others to listen???? "TEN FOUR!"

trfour,
Terry

So far, the rain has melted ALL the snow on the lake that I can see, and there is a 2" deep pond on top of the foot+ of ice. It is just gray now. The wind is creating waves, pushing the warm water around. After a freeze, it will be safe again where the ice was thick, but there is bound to be new soft spots.

Look, one really can't argue that the climate may be warming. It has changed for eons in both directions. It certainly has warmed since the last ice age when there was ONE MILE of ice on top of Manhattan. The argument is whether it is all due to man-made factors.

Well, yes.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060202698.html

Science has been corrupted by politics. I don't think we can believe any of them anymore.

Boater - I'm confused by your post.... normally you represent the "skeptic" end of the climate change article, but the article you quoted was about how members of the Bush administration tried to suppress the findings of NASA scientists showing that climate change was a real, major, and growing problem.

There was nothing in the article about the science being disreputable, only the government's attempt to silence the scientists was labeled disreputable.

Have you changed sides, are did you not read the article carefully?

My "side" is the open mind side. My point was that NASA does distort the data for political purposes. There are many other accusations out there. Here's another: http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnal...aspx?id=518890

Since politics seems to influence scientists we should be wary of their conclusions. ClimateGate showed that many scientists are willing to spin the data to achieve political goals. NASA isn't immune. That's all.

It is pretty warm today and I did drive much more than I usually do over the last week, maybe those guys from the UK didn't have to cook the data after all!

Bring on Global Warming!

Mother Nature's View...
 

And Coming; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age

There is no political election that could ever unseat her!

Terry
____________________

I don't really know how to introduce this...I'm embarrassed for all who jumped on the "skeptic bandwagon" because you wanted climate researchers to be wrong, without any evidence that there was anything wrong...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/sc...imate.html?hpw

So much has been written about the "statistical trick", as if "trick" meant doing something deceitful. The "trick" was combining two previously unrelated databases and seeing they complemented one another.

I admit some of the scientists were crude in their contemptuous comments about skeptics. And I understand the pain and rage felt by those who felt contempt directed at them. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether the science was right or wrong, and EVERY peer-reviewed study supports and continues to support the evidence that climate change is caused by human activity and is making things worse.

Thomas Friedman of the NY Times had an interesting piece a month or so ago. His argument: If there was a 1% chance that Al Qaeda terrorists had discovered a new way to get a nuclear bomb, is that 1% chance enough to treat it as a certainty in terms of our response. By the way, Dick Cheney, then VP of the US was the one who said that we should treat it that way.

Similarly, if there is a 1% chance that the earth will become uninhabitable by humans due to our affecting the climate, shouldn't we respond (for exactly the same reasons as Cheney gave)? Actually, the % is much higher than 1% that if humans do not make major changes in their behaviors affecting the climate that the ensuing climate change will disasterously affect the economy (and lives) of our grandchildren in a very negative way.

Well, enough of this...lets enjoy the sled dog races.

Oh,... in danger of being cancelled again due to lack of snow, for the 9th time in the last few decades, whereas they ran EVERY year earlier in the century (except for the hiatus around WW2)

Shed, don't be embarrassed for those of us that keep an open mind and have a healthy skepticism. We think those qualities embody true science. We think that science should be a relentless pursuer of the truth instead of a way to validate a political ideology. FACT: The only consensus on AGW is among liberals. I can find lots and lots of qualified scientists who completely disagree with your conclusions. Like the scientists at the University of East Anglia, you seem to be very comfortable ignoring them while only embracing scientists that share your personal beliefs.

Climategate showed that the Peer Review process has been seriously corrupted. When you have like-minded people reviewing each other while skeptics are intentionally shut out the whole process is worthless. Period.

This quote is very revealing. EVERY peer-review supports your position? There is not a single opposing view among these scientists? Give me a break. I can't believe that any scientific hypothesis has ever had EVERY scientist in agreement. The very nature of science is challenging hypothesis. If this quote is true then it proves that the AGW scientists have systematically eliminated any opposition, because it surely exists.

The big problem for the AGW worshipers is that they have consistently lead with lies. Lie #1, the Polar Bears. They are thriving. They are not drowning. Their population is 400% larger than it was 40 years ago. If the earth does warm their population will grow even more. Constantly trying to scare people with images of Polar Bears falling from the sky does not help your case. Lie #2, the ocean levels will rise 20 feet and all coastal cities will be under water. Even the IPCC said the rise would be only 18 inches by the end of the century. The 20 foot figure was either totally made up or the result of some wacky computer model. Lie #3, using images and video from fictional movies during supposedly scientific presentations. This makes many proponents, like Algore, look really silly. Lie #4, much of An Inconvenient Truth.

As I've said before, the big problem with all this is the liberal solution: TAX, TAX, TAX. Even the EPA admits that Cap & Trade will do little to help the environment. It's only goal is a massive transfer of wealth. We'll heavily tax our already failing businesses and lose countless jobs (millions?) while emerging economies like China will do nothing that would slow down their economic expansion. They'll be laughing at us while we destroy what's left of our economy. So, I ask you Shed, do you support Cap & Trade as a solution?

Shed, you seem very determined to get your point accross and that is fine, I am not here to attack your stance on this matter.

But, constantly standing up and puffing out your chest, is not becoming.

Sooo, being that humans are the root cause of the issue, I am making the assumption that you are doing something about it, you have not said that directly, but I will assume that you are doing more than talking and telling.

Have you given up your car, fuel source for heating your home and water, stopped using electricity, stopped using anything made of plastic, metal, do not buy jewlery, no clothing, manufactered bodycare products, are you living under the stars (no blankets, thats cheating). Techinically anything since the beginning of man, can be directly attributed to the theory, think long and hard about that.

Before you jump all over me, I do in fact have the opinion that climate change is an issue, but you are not doing anyone any favors by acting the way you do about this subject. And no, I have not given up any of the items above. Simply state your information and allow folks to form their own opinions. I don't know if you have kids, but if you do, think about what it is like to get your child to eat a food that they do not want to try, you cannot cram it down their throats and expect them to start liking it.

The extremes in seasonal changes are very evident, but the one thing you seem to be missing is that most of the folks that think climate change is not true, are directly thinking that it means that New Hampshire is going to have North Carolina weather tomorrow, that is a minor side effect, the major side effect is weather not appearing "normal". (if you do not believe me, look back on all the threads related to this issue, then look at current comments regarding Global Warming (not just this site but anywhere), they are all related in that they talk of temperature, that is why it is not called Global Warming anymore, folks took it to be a literal statement) Folks are not looking at the Bi-polar effect of our weather as an issue related to Climate Change, they scratch theirs heads and just wonder why its happening, lots of snow one year, hardly any the next, lots of rain and no sun in the summer, then really hot temps in the fall, snow in Washington, Dallas, Disney and a multitude of other weather pattern changes that have gone way past normal in the last 5 years alone.

Climate change is very real and while it's rate is being affected by the side effects of human life, it is only going to be worst if we continue to try and mess with the way the earths climate changes. We will never reverse the human affect on the earth, even stopping everything tomorrow will not change anything in our families-families lifetimes.

Even though I stated my opinion above, I still listen to both sides. I still look at this issue with both eyes open and I suggest you do the same, otherwise you start argueing the wrong points and everyone stops listening.

Plus, its not worth getting all worked up about, life as we know it ends in 2 years anyway, so eat, drink and be merry, anything else will give you an ulser. :)

The Dog Ate my Homework...
 

The below quote was written before ClimateGate.

"Steve M" is Steve McIntyre, a climate scientist who found the hidden data (archived in Russia) and challenged Mann, saying data was tossed that didn't fit the theory—endangering future government grants.

The many comments above came out in September of 2009.

Meanwhile, hackers exposed Climatologists' contemptuous 61Mb of e-mails—immediately termed "ClimateGate". In October, the BBC was presented with all of the hacked data for disclosure to the public; however, BBC merely sat on the information. (As has most of the US media).

Just weeks before the Copenhagen Conference, "ClimateGate" was disclosed world-wide on the Internet, assuring the failed conference there.

One paragraph from that article:

Can someone explain how Mann was cleared of the charge of hiding data? :confused:

A Brit ex-pat (at the same source as above) has stated my own view:

BTW: "ClimateGate" released this e-mailed tidbit early-on, which intended to hide a seven-year decline (!) in world temperatures. (Something that eerily conforms to the much-damper and cooler temps around Lake Winnipesaukee's post-2002 seasons).

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/1...iles-released/

Sound like a Climate Scientist to you? :eek:

OK so you're using the fact that NH has no snow as an argument to support Global Warming? Ummmmm ok, sooooo explain the 3 feet of snow in Washington DC a few hundred miles south of us? Curious?

I do believe that folks in the UK would argue with your conclusions Shed.

Here is some interesting reading for you:

http://www.fairinvestment.co.uk/News...-18470402.html

Folks in India might take issue as well:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/110012...y_12041751.jsp

Another one close to home

http://www.katu.com/blogs/weather/81281412.html

2012: The End...
 

If you meant all life is to end in the year 2012—on the rock carving known as the "Mayan Calendar", an explanation has been produced recently... :cool:

http://bitsandpieces.us/wp-content/u...20calendar.jpg

I was going to ask the same thing.

Global Warming?
 

Global warming??? how come my thermomenter hasent got over 31 deg. In a month? Where is your global warming now??


:D

trivia
 

Out of all the atmospheric gases, what is the most abundant "green house gas"? I will give you a hint, #1 is nitrgen @ 78.08% and #2 is oxigen @ 20.95%, what is the next gas and it is the reason the earth retains heat and it makes up the vast majority of the remaining, .07%

(the percentage do vary depending on where you are in the globe)

?
 

Bueller???

Well now I thought there had to be a good explanation.:D

APS got it but for anyone else, my tongue was pressed firmly in cheek on that one.