By placing a simple boating comment into an issues thread, this was not an issue I had. This was made into an issue by others. There is a perception that anything performance is an issue, this change helps with that perception.

Noise: A Red Flag to Peaceable Boaters...
 

The vocal few can't dismiss the three tragedies that plague this boating "issue".

:(

.

The performance boats did not cause these tragedies, the drunk operators did.

It was the booze not the boats that caused the problems....And the ones that you were referring to were not high speed accidents.

Nice spin though :rolleye2:

Why let the facts get in the way of a good argument!

This discussion about GFBL boats goes down the same path all the time. For the most part it seems to have the same players involved.

No one is posting anything different then what has already been said in many other threads.

Time to move on and enjoy what the Lake has to offer for all of us.

It was a simple post that started to go down hill with the non performance crowd. Enjoying the lake was the theme of my post, I enjoy seeing it, it was a welcomed change for me, I posted it.

Some people like loud noise????
 

So, this whole thread boils down to:

Some people like loud noise while others do not.

Some people feel it totally correct to malign any individual who disagrees.

Some folks like to quote "live free or die" when they feel their "rights" are in any way infringed yet the person disagreeing has no right to enjoy the lake on their terms and if they do not like it then they should move! Yikes!!!

As I have said I do not like the noise but I have never said the culprits should be banned. If the law says they are too loud then I fully support MP enforcing the law. If some of you do not like the law then work to get it changed but I am not sure what your logic would be....louder is better?

Really?

Its funny how you aim this statement at the people liking performance boats when you were the 1st negative post in this thread with "The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!"

For me, my post was about how good I thought it was, and again for me it was about getting away from it all in a way I enjoy. You sir were the one who added the start of the negativity or did you forget that?

Well, to me, it seems like you want to censor JDeere. This is a forum where people are allowed to express their opinions, whether it matches yours or not.

So, did you hear the song from that new Disney movie "Frozen".... it's called "Let it go" :)

I love the sound of boats. The engines, the way hulls sound slapping the waves, and the occasional scream of joy. Maybe it's just me but those sounds seem almost as natural as the Loon calls.

Second that and add my love for the sound of a tuned exhaust.
The roar of a 427 Shelby Cobra,that pleasing crackle of an Aston Martin,even the rumble of a Harley as long as it's not a straight pipe blast.
No matter what I'm doing,I'll always take a peek when a nice performance boat passes my house.
Love the sound of pipes.

Some people can't "hear the song" because the engine roar is too loud. :D

And others can't hear the song because their heads are either stuck in the sand or other places where the sun don't shine. :laugh:

When We COULD "Get Away From it All"...
 

Drunks favor 3½-Ton boats to keep them alive and un-bloodied?

Maybe so:

Weighed together, the dead victims' demolished boats didn't weigh anywhere-close to 3½-Tons.

I (We) "Let it go" when oversized ocean racers got their well-deserved legal knockdown; however, the ocean-racers just returned to Concord to modify an existing law that ultimately legalized their exhaust "cut-out" option to bring to Winnipesaukee their excessive exhaust noise.

I certainly can understand why the NHMP are finding "articulable suspicion" regarding these exhausts.

:look:

Maine's Sebago Lake allows very loud exhaust noises—although ocean-racers can be heard from over 8 miles away. Even the 300-foot height and granite mass of Rattlesnake Island can't block the noise from SW side to NE side. (Also true at Johnson's Cove).

Lake Winnipesaukee has a very different geological history than my family's former Sebago Lake island property—which enhanced its allure to my Grandparents. Thanks to my Grandparents' decision to move to Melvin Village, my Dad and I have spent nearly all of our boating lives on Lake Winnipesaukee. (Mostly on Winter Harbor—which BTW—is not a busy thruway).

Note just received from Winter Harbor:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...psc1571c84.jpg

When I'm on the telephone, I always make it a point to let the caller know how exhaust noise interferes with Lake Winnipesaukee's birding and "quiet-time" pleasures; that is, if the caller can hear me. (!)

With the offender's exhaust in the background, it's especially gratifying when NHMP dispatchers ask me to repeat my phoned-in complaint about speedboat exhaust noise.


.

Are you OK? This is one of the most confusing posts I have read on this forum.

My friend, his wife and 2 passengers are very lucky they were in their 7000 pound Doral when they got hit on their port side on the lake this summer by a bad boater in a smaller vessel.

Too funny
 

Some of the replies really are too funny. The thread starts with how wonderful all the boats were and I opined that is was a bit too loud and frenetic for me. Next thing people start to take personal swipes at me...or at least my screen name. One person starts to talk about the Indians and how what happened to them somehow correlates to his right to live free or die. How sophomoric.

Seems many of you get your panties all in twist if someone sees the world differently than you. That is a sad way to live. You have a right to your opinion and I mine...btw...your opinion's did not carry much credence since we now have new laws to deal with speed and noise.

Lastly "live free or die" was never meant to mean do whatever you want.

The phrase comes from a toast written by General John Stark, New Hampshire's most famous soldier of the American Revolutionary War, on July 31, 1809. Poor health forced Stark to decline an invitation to an anniversary reunion of the Battle of Bennington. Instead, he sent his toast by letter:

Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.
Stark may not have been the original author of the phrase. Vivre Libre ou Mourir ("Live free or die") was a popular motto of the French Revolution, which the politician Antoine Barnave had engraved on his buttons.[2]

What does this post even mean
 

Who wants to coral....eh.... Maybe you mean corral the boats?

Your old man never put anything on his hackercraft. Just because someone moved hear and tell him NO!

What the heck does that mean. :eek:

lol.. So I'm guessing we haven't seen the movie... :rolleye2:

The thread that just won't die !




.

For some reason I visualize you looking like this after the NHMP tell you that your complaint will be looked into and they don't do anything:

Like dogs with a bone....

While keeping under one post per day...
 

So, change the channel...

I can relate to that—even after years at an occupation that has taken away most of my colleagues' sense of hearing.

While I prefer to post information regarding the forum's "winni-wildlife", "lost and found", history, weather, "getting here", and cottage-maintenance forums, what specifically confused you?

:confused:


1) The phrase, "Getting away from it all"?

2) The combined weights of the victims' boats?

3) The State of Maine's exhaust noise regulation?

4) That exhaust noise can be heard on the opposite side of Rattlesnake Island?

5) That exhaust noise on The Broads can be heard in Johnson's Cove?

6) That my family has a long history at Winnipesaukee?

7) That exhaust noise interferes with the simplest of the Lake's enjoyments?

8) That ocean-racers lost "The Big One" in Concord?

9) That ocean-racers can today make more exhaust noise?

10) That using a telephone at the dock becomes impossible due exhaust noise?

11) That NHMP dispatchers get "drowned-out" by exhaust noise?

12) The legal term, "Articulable Suspicion"?

I'll try to use shorter words when possible.

;)


I've made sure that the NHMP has no choice in the matter: I only call when two conditions are met.

1) I see the infraction.

2) I see an NHMP officer is already present.

It's worked out well so far; previously, the NHMP appeared between 20 and 30 minutes later. (Most often, too late for the necessary "articulable suspicion"—or even to halt an underage operator—who sadly died within my view.)

To their credit, NHMP dispatchers have always followed-through.

:coolsm:

.

I think #1 and #10 are a bit contradictory.

I still don't understand how if a boat passed once it can be tested again and not pass. They didn't change the decibel level. Unless someone fooled around with their boat, why would it change?

You answered your own question. Performance boats/cars/motorcycles are rarely not tinkered with to try and extract more performance from them. One of the easiest ways to extract more performance from an engine is to relieve back pressure in the exhaust system. You can do that in three ways, a really big muffler that keeps the noise down, but takes up a lot of space, looks ugly and costs a lot of money, a smaller muffler that trades higher flow for less noise reduction, or a straight through pipe that offers the best flow for the least amount of money and the least noise reduction. Swapping a muffler for a straight pipe can be a 10 minute job, so passing a test once can mean nothing an hour later...

The easiest solution is to keep the boat/car/motorcycle quiet enough to not attract attention. For some, the attention is the sole reason for the loud exhaust.

I had the test done 6 years ago, so things may have changed. There are a number of reasons., aside from mechanical changes.

1 - Equipment, calibration and the MP operator - I had to do 3 passes at WOT. The MP averaged those 3 passes to come up with a final DB number. So there is variability. Each pass was between 2 - 5 DB different.

2 - Proximity to MP boat - For the 3 WOT passes, I was asked to be 25 off of the MP boats transom (scared the &^%& out of me at 70 mph, and a bit dangerous I thought). A few feet either way can mean a difference difference between pass / fail.

3 - Weather - My first test was postponed due to fog. The MP told me that humidity, wind, etc can effect the result.

You know, I moved to south FL 6 years ago. Amazing that this debate is still going strong. Here, no 150 foot rule, most places, no speed limits. Boats of every size, shape and type. Everyone seems to get along (sometimes tolerate) and enjoy boating. There are boneheads of course but's that's another topic :) There are a lot of things I miss about living in NH, but this isn't one of them.

I think we did the test about 6 years ago too, maybe longer. It took us 4 or 5 times before we finally passed and it that was just barely a pass. So
I am a little paranoid now that we might get stopped but don't really want to ask for trouble by asking to be tested. WE haven't changed anything mechanically though.

It took me 2 times, and I think my average just barley squeaked under. My fist pass was at 78 and each one got a little bit higher :eek: We were all stock (HP500s).

I was in the boat with the MP. He was stern but the last time he thanked me for being nice. I asked him if people actually weren't nice to him despite the fact that none of us are happy to be there. He said you wouldn't believe how bad people are. I might not be happy but I was still taught to respect authority. I was sure glad it was finally over after a whole summer of marinas trying to get the boat right, a lot of money, and all those tests. I think we finally passed in Oct. when they did the last test of the year out there.

Funny thing, I had an older MP in my boat when we did the final round of tests (at Timber). It was a little hairy as we had to go WOT by the MP boat that was about 10' offshore, then take a hard turn to port to clear the point and rocks.

When we were done, the officer thanked me, smiled and said "now I know why you guys like these boats" :D

I hear you on losing time, I got stopped on a Saturday, and the test was scheduled for the following weekend. That was postponed due to fog. Next week failed and 3rd week passed. Lost almost a full month of boating.

My boat was stock, as delivered by the dealer in Winni. We had a cracked baffle (due to age). Fortunately, that was it.

We had no idea when we bought ours that it was loud. I just loved the look of the boat and had to have it. We never even tried it out. And the problem was they didn't really know how to fix it. They tried this and then that and then this and then that until it finally passed. I think they were trying to quiet it enough with a major deal. But it didn't work.

The standard used for the exhaust noise test is ISO 14509.:rolleye2: I cant believe that NHMP WOULD PUT a person in danger like that of a mister meaner.the test requires the boat to pass by the sound meter at a distance of 25 meters (82 feet). The boat must be traveling at least 70 kilometers per hour (43.5 mph) or maximum speed. To pass the test the average of the two highest results must not exceed 78 dB(A).

As a point of reference - the sound of water lapping the shore is 75-80 dBA.

Well, despite all the education that was done about the switchable exhaust it appears that some people still don't seem to understand, that the exhaust noise test would be done with the the exhaust going through the hull.... not through the hub. If the Boat passes the noise test, the when the "silent choice" is on it is only going to be quieter.

IN SHORT THIS LAW REVERSAL HAS DONE NOTHING THAT MAKES THE LAKE NOISIER

This law making switchable exhaust illegal had been done with out the proper knowledge originally. Everyone I talked with, once the details where explained, understood, that this could only improve noise level etc. especially around public docks etc.

It funny that all I have is an 18' bow rider, not an oversized ocean racer, yet I still realized that the switchable exhaust law was just plain wrong.

Not at all, I am pointing out that that post was what sent my positive post down a path that moved this to the Issues category giving it a negative tone.

It is a major deal. About a decade ago I receive a quote of about $4,000 to replace the DARPA silencers on my '88 with the newer nonswitchable exhaust. It involves replacing the whole through the hull unit including the headers. For now, it is quiet at WOT as tested a decade ago. Now I am worried about the testing at idle. There is not enough water flowing through the mufflers to quiet the sound.

Oh come on ApS.You love the sound of noisy aircraft.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ghlight=planes
I believe it is the "usual" Saturday Sukhoi acrobatic monoplane that does loops and spirals above Rattlesnake Island nearly every weekend. Yes, you do have to look up--and it helps to hear it first!

It could be a Yak--they're similar planes, even at 100 feet altitude. Both are equipped with the radial (round) engine that won WWII.

It is the Antonov's radial engine that makes the difference.

Like the sound that a Harley-Davidson makes from its own antique design lineage, a radial engine makes a very distinctive sound: If it's flying over Winnipesaukee, you can detect it.

The radial engine sound has even produced a cottage industry in CD recordings. (You can listen on-line!)
http://www.spitcrazy.com/sounds_of_aviation.htm
http://rareaviation.com/raenfrso.html

One recording company has even added music to the sound:
http://sounddogs.com/results.asp? (Vocals!)

I don't know of any similar recordings of any other engine.

Too, it is the sound of our WWII American "Warbird" legacy. These designs produced engines of 3600+HP from a single engine. Here's the radial engine principle.

Like some boats on Winnipesaukee, Harley-Davidson motorcyclists try to project a kind of "Warbird" image. (Paint jobs, graphics, decals, leather jackets and "character"). It's just ridiculous that our Warbird legacy of WWII could be matched or experienced through paint jobs and appearances: think "poseur". All the other engine sounds that strike my ear at Winnipesaukee are projected through noisy Detroit-Iron exhaust pipes, housed in expensive fiberglass jukeboxes.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ghlight=planes
of us lakeside will be treated to the sound of these Warbirds overhead that's been described as "felt", rather than "heard".

These engines are of a "radial" (round) design, and have a distinctive exhaust note. Instead of the "rap" of the related Harley-Davidson motorcycle engine, listen for the "chuh-chuh-chuh" of those big radials.

So the bottom line is if its a noise others like its not ok but if its noise you like its all good.

That sir was the best well researched post I have seen in awhile. The detail is impressive, no matter what side of the debate you are on. Well done!

The "Reduction" Can Be Made Logical, But...
 

While the change was initially presented as a logical solution—that exhaust noise would become "less-loud"—it hasn't worked out. Noise testing is now done at dockside. It was the first step in fooling the Legislature. A widely circulated photo of the Governor about to sign the new noise bill shows the Governor's face as grim. What'd he suspect?

Legalizing the "Captain's Choice" exhaust-cutout allows noisy boats to operate in either quiet or loud mode. For reasons that should be obvious, loud boats still plague Winnipesaukee's bays, harbors, inlets and coves.

Cutouts are widely banned in automobiles, but because noise travels greater distances over water, too many noisy boats have been tolerated on Lake Winnipesaukee for too long.

Lakers have "earned the right" to make the most noise, but they've got even louder competition.

If you've viewed the video of the race (that "wasn't a race") taken over the 2013 Labor Day Weekend, you should be scratching your head. At ½-mile away, the loud rapping exhaust noise of 15 "Performance" boats was recorded with the camera's microphone, which measures only 1.5 millimeters across.

Sorry, I don't.

Every bright summer afternoon, I am drawn upwards to a white Waco biplane (radial engine) that flies over Wolfeboro's little airport, then directly over my Dad's house. The Sukhoi (radial engine) that does weekend acrobatics over Rattlesnake Island can be heard doing Immelmann turns. No Rattlesnake Islander has made mention of that "noise"—and they're missing a show!

It's the sound of the aircraft radial engines that won WWII that I like—they're not "in your face", like a bunch of Harleys blasting up a road with straight pipes.

For now, let's just call loud exhausts "inconsiderate".

:look: