This thread is about masks. The president of the United States—the person who governs and sets the tone for the whole of America—has, until recently, decided, visibly, not to wear one AND has argued against them.

I simply asked if someone who has been vocally anti-mask and pro-Trump would reconsider.

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I'm not discussing political ramifications, nor am I taking a side, nor am I criticizing the person/people I was referring to—I'm asking if someone would change their behavior given a change in circumstance. If you, or others, see that as political, I apologize.

(In hindsight, however, this thread was not the one I originally thought it was—this one is about buying, not wearing, masks, so I apologize to the OP.)

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Considerate Visitors
 

All of the hummingbirds that visit our feeders are wearing masks. 🇺🇸

Natives...
 

....are getting restless...

Yes--it's a bummer. But we as a society are like a rookie captain on the lake with a couple of inexperienced buddies, as you so aptly put it--we have not done this before. Accepting that, we have a basic choice. Option 1--we can listen to our pesky egghead friend (let's call him Tony) who has read extensively on seamanship, aced the boater ed course, and has memorized Bizer. Option 2--we can listen to our supremely confident friend (let's call him Don) who has none of Tony's background, really wants to get back to the party on the other side of The Broads ASAP, and isn't worried about the ominous weather report delivered by some other eggheads.

I share your discomfort and frustration with Tony, Don, and the rest of the world. But there's no question--I'm taking Tony's advice to get me home safely.

Not sure those options represent what the world is offering us in the current pandemic. It would be nice if it were as clear cut at that, but for me its much more confusing as the endless stream of talking heads fill the airwaves 24 hrs/day with finger pointing and political mudslinging. When the so called express tell you that you need to do something drastic for a short period to avoid a major crisis, then you do it, and the crisis happens anyway, then they tell you that you didn’t do it long enough, or well enough and now you will need to endure the change for much longer than expected, or indefinitely, well you start to lose faith in those people and that system.

Are we better off for all we have done?

Some say yes and claim it would have been much worse if we had not done it, while others say you have accomplished nothing and worse yet you have compounded the matter by these bad choices.

So who do you believe?

The people who were wrong in the length and scope and depth of what was needed and continue to blindly follow them to no foreseeable end point?

Or do you make a 180 degree u-turn and jump on the bandwagon of the people who say its not real or not a big deal or we are doing the opposite of what we should be doing, despite the significant numbers of sick and dead people?

This is a mess and a disaster of epic proportions and there is no clear path out of this medical and political tarpit.

Most disappointing to me, I see politicians at every level using this event as a political forum and for their own advantage. I have not yet seen one that I felt was 100% honest, and acting in the best interest of everyone who they represent.

I also see the media as shameless appalling profiteers. Gone are actual journalists.

I am so sick and fed up with opinion news and news anchors trying to tell me what to think.

And god help us all for all the pseudo news commentary people and their ½ hour popularity contests. I would rather watch the 3 Stooges or Bugs Bunny than any of these cable TV idiots that the world relies on to think for them. Make a bold statement, mock some politician up to and including the president, crack a smile and a joke and you get followers and ratings and credibility.

The world is not a better place because of CNN, MSN, FOX News, Rachel Maddow, Trevor Noah, Jon Stewart, Glenn Beck, Bill Maher, Chris Matthews, Rush Limbaugh, or any of the countless shameless self-promoting idiots the networks promote in their quest for more viewership and more profit. We survive in spite of these bozos.

Sorry, just very frustrated.

Feeling bad for people suffering the virus, and people suffering because of the restrictions. My barber of over 22 years closed down because of this mess. That alone leaves me angry and frustrated, let alone all the other problems. in a personal gesture of solidarity for my barber, i may never get another hair cut,,,

Sorry :offtopic: way off,,,

Trust no one but yourself. Just do what you feel you need to do to keep you and your family safe. It seems like everyone has an agenda and will lie through their teeth to get people to follow them.

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The best advice I can give you is to stop watching CNN, MSN, FOX News, Rachel Maddow, Trevor Noah, Jon Stewart, Glenn Beck, Bill Maher, Chris Matthews, Rush Limbaugh, or any of the countless shameless self-promoting idiots the networks promote in their quest for more viewership and more profit. You may continue to watch the 3 Stooges or Bugs Bunny.

Ending my comments on a happy note, I think,,,
 

Working on it,,, Someone much smarter than me once told me, life is imperfect at best, and so are you, but keep working on it you "might" get better.

So far, I remain the eternal optimist, but shrouded in layers of pessimism. So as you might expect, inline with my not being perfect, I am also sometimes hard to live with. Too often frustrated by the world around me, usually happiest when anchored somewhere on Winnipesaukee, sitting in some float with a toe line connected to the boat (I'm the only one who currently operates boats in the family, so if I floated away, they could neither come get me nor go home :D )

Nobody's perfect, and it's always unpleasant watching sausage being made. But there's a big difference between acting like a politician when you're on the side of virtually all of the public health experts, and acting like a politician when you're ignoring all the public health experts.

But there have been excellent leaders during this difficult time--the Republican Governors of New Hampshire and Massachusetts, and the Democratic Governor of Rhode Island--just to name a few nearby. I think that all these folks have done pretty well with the hands they were dealt, and I don't think they exaggerated the danger or overpromised on what would happen with sacrifice. All 3 of their states have done WAY better than average.

Too often, politicians who have been obviously and grossly wrong try to spread the blame and deflect by saying everyone's at fault, nobody knows what to do. That's a lot of the noise you're hearing on the TV shows you really should stop watching

I guess I'm not all that confused. MA and NH, and the countries that have reopened successfully, have the same things in common. Virus infection = distance + saturation + time - remediation.

As a result, my family is living mostly normal. We're going to restaurants, dining outside at some, inside at others; grocery and other stores; entertainment venues (Southwick's Zoo and Mel's Funway last week); group events (Cub Scouts, father-daughter activities); birthday parties, etc.

We stay socially distant, wearing masks when inside; wash our hands frequently; don't touch our faces (whenever we can help it); and minimize our time in enclosed/highly saturated places. It's not brain science.

The trick, really, will be dealing with high-saturation/respiration/time places like schools and bars and, to keep this on topic lest the Top-Water Topic Police show up, how to pay for and manage wearing masks and other remediations.

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oveoM
 

Agree with you... but as with much in life, some of NH, MA low levels are due to luck and continuing low levels require at least most of the population taking some measures of continued vigilance. Hubris usually fails.

The overall issues are not that complicated. On any issue of importance, I usually eliminate the opinions of the outliers on either end. Most of the time the consensus of experts, regardless of issue....from plumbers to epidemiologists is the best path.

AND....the consensus may change overtime as more accurate information becomes available. Who would have guessed 10 years ago the preponderance of pontoons as new boat purchases? Or the popularity of SUVs.

It’s not rocket science but it is medical/epidemiological science.

Of course, the outliers are sometimes correct...but this is rarely the case. When practicing, I always recommended second opinions and sometimes third on difficult issues.

This disaster we are dealing with is, IMO, purposeful or not, caused by the lack of clear, accurate communication.

This is an absurd post.

Mask Changes Coming?
 

Will be interesting if the holdouts change their minds now that it's "patriotic" to wear a mask.Attachment 16235

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It's no worse than most of your screeds.

I’m not a fan of masks either. They’re annoying. So I don’t wear one. If I get the flu, that’s what happens: I get the flu. If you want to follow the crowd so as to fit in, and you think the flu is in search of you, then stay home for a year. In the meantime don’t drive a car or walk down the street because you might get hurt. Be consistent. Don’t expect the majority of thinking people to kowtow to the sheep mentality.

I agree with the Three Stooges and Bugs Bunny recommendation.


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The majority of thinking people realize the propriety of masking, social distancing, and hand washing.

It's those minority hold outs that are the problem today.

Evidently, now it's Patriotic also! :emb::emb::emb:

...... 5-masks/$7.50, black or white, all cotton
 

Yesterday, July 20, was the first day for Walmart to require masks and not just recommend masks. Everyone I saw inside the Plymouth store was wearing a mask.

Positioned where you first walk in, they had a display of masks for sale made by Hanes and some other brand.

For $7.50, there's a Hanes 5-pak of masks, 3-ply 100% cotton, black or white, washable and reusable, "shall not be used in a clinical setting where the infection risk level through inhalation is high", dispose after 20 washes, one size fits most, made in Vietnam.

Feels like a good, comfy, well made, sturdy mask that can be washed for $1.50-each ...... a bargain at twice the price ...... and, the lungs you protect could be your own!

July 21, subscription not needed..... http://www.concordmonitor.com/covid-...shire-35320225 ...... chart shows one day, July 20, NH corona increase?

“The holdouts” as you describe them, are a silent majority of independent thinkers that do not alter their core, ideals and beliefs over a “tweet”
Simply put, this man, our president, is our only choice to attempt to prevent our great country from falling into the hands of socialists, radicals and others that want to create a “new world order” at the expense of the beliefs and ideals that made America the greatest country on the planet.
Could you be so naive as to “think” any differently?
The only answer to your random “wonderings” is a resounding NO!

Your post is satire right? COVID-19 is not the flu. The flu is caused by a strain of the influenza virus....a thinking person should know this. Thinking people don’t wear masks? Mask wearers are sheep? Well I hope if you get your “flu” you don’t become seriously ill and seek care at a hospital. Hospitals are filled with unthinking mask wearing sheep! You certainly can’t trust your health and recovery to them! You mention the dangers of driving. I suppose as a “thinking person” you ignore speed limits, red lights, and stop signs? If you’re obeying them I guess you’re just a sheep driving a car? Maybe you’re OK with following laws....and this is why society (aka: the sheep) are forced to enact laws in order to clearly spell out to the thinking people what is right and what is wrong. If your post wasn’t satire then I thank you! Now I understand why laws governing seatbelt use, cellphone use, and drunk driving exist! It’s because the thinking people are spending too much time thinking and need some very clear guidance in the form of laws. Sad that so much has to be mandated.

Attachment 16239

If you hate wearing a mask, you're really not going to like the ventilator

Screeds- good word!
 

Unfortunately, as a descriptive, it doesn't apply to a five word sentence.
However, your post implies that you agree with me, just on a different level.

My response to the poster revolves around the "annoyance" of wearing a mask- because we should- and the fact that it may, or may not, help deter the spread of the virus. Plus the poster's observation (feeling) that others are being inconsiderate.

So... do we wear masks because we want to (it's the right thing to do, as individuals)?- Or because we should- leaving it up to the rest of society?

I understand that the poster was trying to make a point- but no point was made- making the post "absurd".

Besides: It helps hide wrinkles?

Thank you for your understanding, friend (seems to work for others in contentious posts).

While the efficacy of masks worn to prevent the wearer from contracting the virus has not been proven, their value in preventing wearers who are infected from easily spreading the virus seems clear.

It we all wear masks, maintain social distancing, avoid touching our face and wash / sanitize our hands frequently: how can the virus then continue to spread?

We have to do something to slow it down until a vaccine is available, or else the death toll will spike, hospitals will run out of capacity to effectively treat patients, and we'll be the world's poster child for inept governmental / societal response to this clear and present danger.

"We have met the enemy, and it is us." --- Pogo

Here's an interesting article from the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. Article also references info from several other "respected" sources.

No face diapers for me, thank you. Feel free to move about with yours on though....

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

Doomsayers discrediting this article in 3....2....1.....

Probably worth at least looking into the AAPS. They also say that there is a casual relationship between vaccines and autism.

So, here's the opposite from the AMA,

"Public masking during the COVID-19 pandemic is one of the most effective measures we can take to contain the spread of the virus. The American Medical Association strongly advocates for coronavirus masking in public spaces".

www.ama-assn.org/topics/coronavirus-masking-public

Just like Burger King, you can have it your way. I'll take AAPS with a side of fries and a Diet Coke. You can take AMA, with whatever else you want with it.

OK, we get it. You don't wear a mask and think its a waste of time. But do you have to be insulting and condescending to others who don't share your views?

So...to your thinking, expressing one's own point of view that doesn't agree with yours is insulting and condescending but everyone that has thrown out verbal slings and barbs from the "other" side are not?
This argument cannot be won, by either side. Express your view and go on about your business.

The AAPS
 

Founded in 1944, it has about 5,000 members. Has promoted:

• The belief that HIV does not cause AIDS
• Being gay reduces life expectancy
• There is a link between abortions and breast cancer
• There is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism

The AAPS was formed in 1944 in opposition to the Wagner-Murray-Dingell Bill proposing government health care to most US citizens. it is a political-economic rather than a medical group. The AAPS opposes electronic medical records and takes the position that the FDA and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services are unconstitutional. In 2005 they published an article stating that 'anchor babies' from illegal aliens had, in 3 years, swollen the number of leprosy cases in the US by 7,000 (as it turns out there were 7,000 cases of leprosy cases in the US over the course of 30 years, not 3).

Soooo....I'm not really going to take what the AAPS says seriously.

What took you so long? You don’t think we could come up with an equally descriptive list against AMA?

Mr. Hillcountry, MY view is that calling a mask a face diaper is insulting and condescending.

The only relationship between the AMA and the AAPS is the use of the same alphabet.

You could come up with a list of positions that the AMA has taken which would not be valid today...that is the way things go over time. But the AAPS list was wrong when made and never true.

I am not defending the AMA but trying to compare the AAPS and AMA is just not a valid argument with respect to scientific / medical value.

And just who is the “we” you refer to? Why can’t there be a discussion of individuals without making it a debate between 2 sides.

Checking sources, etc. Besides, I don’t want to hog all the fun :)

Agreed on "sides". There will never be political consensus between 2 people unless they are the most strident conservative or liberal, even then they would find things to disagree about!

I had never heard of AAPS until this thread.

To the No Mask people, will you mask for work, to go shopping, or to a restaurant? I have typed it before on this forum, but it is amazing how fast we adapted at work to distancing or masking. 95% of the time we stand in a circle talking and everyone naturally goes 6' apart. What was once a tighter circle is looser. If we cant distance we mask. It's really not much of a hardship.

I thought it hilarious! Difference between you and me.:D

Hey Hill,

How can one insult and be condescending to a face mask?? If you can figure that out, please let me know! :laugh:

Face masks matter...I guess?

Nor had I and I serve on the board of directors of an international healthcare accrediting organization. We have 23 professional healthcare associations represented on our board and AAPS is not among them nor are they even on our radar as an organization that can assist in creating quality consensus standards for the healthcare community.

Be well.