For SB2 towns (like mine), there are also the deliberative sessions in February which goes over the town and school warrants. They can be amended during those sessions which means there are two opportunities to deal with town and school spending. (Yes, I know some towns have their town and school district meetings in either April or May, but they are the exception.)

I have to admit that one of my biggest pet peeve are folks - specifically year round residents - who will complain about their property taxes yet they "couldn't be bothered" to attend town/school district meetings if a traditional meeting or the deliberative and/or voting sessions in SB2 towns. When I hear that they neither attended or voted, my sympathy for their plight fades. It may sound heartless, but too often they want someone to fix the problem <U>after</U> the fact, something they could have headed off if they had bothered to participate. (I point to the town of Croydon as an example and how they cut their school budget somewhere around 50% last March - it may have been more, but memory fails me at the moment - because too many voters in Croydon couldn't be bothered to attend the school district meeting. The hew and cry that went out after that was beautiful to see as I am sure town and school district meeting attendance will be much higher in 2025 because of it.)

Fortunately most of the voters in Moultonboro know this absolutely not true and voted sb2 down last time it was up.

I agree. A lot more people vote in SB2 towns BUT still not enough.

Why do you think this and why are the voters afraid of SB2? They don't WANT more people to vote? SB2 won't "solve all of the crap" but it certainly will bring out more voters. I just don't understand how anybody can be afraid of SB2 unless they are the tiny little group that would like to control each town. Please enlighten me.

I can understand the faults of SB2.

Responsible citizens should take time to understand the issues they are voting on. At a town level, the issues are not on TV or in many papers. Sometimes the only place you can learn about them is at town meeting.

If you are focused on the issue that school budgets are too big and you don't come to a town meeting, there is little chance you might hear the other side of the discussion. And vice versa.

As to the "tiny little group" that likes to "control" the town, isn't it just as likely that a budget that is sensible can be overridden by a group whose only purpose is to defeat that budget without further ado. With SB2, it's easy. No discussion. No exchange of ideas. Just vote it down. I have seen such things happen and at the next voting opportunity it is reversed because the impact of the cuts upsets so many people that they made sure they came out to vote the next time.

To be clear, I am not on either side of this spending discussion. I believe that town spending should be limited and that we are probably spending on things we shouldn't be. On the other hand, there are some things we DO need to spend on; even if it stretches our pocketbook somewhat. The only way to sort this out is to discuss it and ask questions. If you are too busy to attend a town meeting to listen and then vote, maybe what you are complaining about isn't all that important to you. If you find yourself outvoted all the time, maybe you are living in a town that just doesn't see things your way. That's the way democracy works, the majority gets what they want. The RIGHT WAY to change minds and votes is to present reasoned and persuasive discussion, not to drop vote bombs and scurry home.

some good ideas... only thing about a reverse mortgage is that it is only applicable to one's primary residence. Of course a regular cash-out mortgage could also extract cash from the property.

Pretty tough for a retired person in their 70's and 80's to get a regular mortgage with no income. I also think it would be difficult to get someone to buy it and let you continue to live in it without a substantial monthly rent. A reverse mortgage is probably your only option.
Just to clarify, my neighbor is moving into an assisted living facility in Peabody Ma. because his wife needs constant care. He needed 400K buy in money to reserve their apartment which he didn't have, thus the reverse mortgage. So, he needs to sell no matter what! The stock market taking a nosedive yesterday won't help the real estate market. The property is on the market for 1.25 million. By the time he pays off the real estate fees, reverse mortgage, and capital gains taxes there's not much left. It may seem like he will have a lot of money left, but those assisted living facilities get a hefty monthly rent that will eat into that money depending how long they both live.
My neighborhood is starting to turn over as a lot of my neighbors are in their 80's. Another one of my elderly neighbors cashed out last spring and sold his waterfront home this past summer for 1.55 million and bought a brand-new home in Meredith away from the lake for 1 million. Another one sold a family camp for 1.3 million and cashed out. It looks like they both may have caught the top of the market, JMO.

Big-
At the risk of going off-topic, your neighbor had to put down 400K to reserve a spot at an Assisted Living? I've not heard of that before...we looked at a lot of Assisted Living places when we moved my in-laws into one, and the most that had to be paid up front was one month's rent. And you are correct, the rent is not cheap...I think it is like $18K/mo for both in-laws, (they charge by the person and by the services required for each).

Although a SB2 town doesn't have a "town meeting" at which they vote on many of the articles, they do have a "deliberative session" before voting day where the taxpayers can become more informed and can propose changes to amendments if they want to. So this is where you have your "exchange of ideas". I agree, it's not easy to find out information, you have to work for it.

I have seen deliberative sessions in our town with a couple of hundred attending and others with less the 50. Some of that depends upon what's on the town or school warrant.

During the voting session we see between 1300 and 1500 voters (out of ~5900 registered voters) showing up to vote. But I have no idea how well informed they may or may not be when they enter the voting booth. I have no idea how many vote based upon reason and logic and those who vote based upon how they feel. It's a crap shoot.

I have seen town and school budgets rejected by the voters, and I did not disagree with them for doing so. I have seen budgets passed by voters that I thought should have been rejected because they were too loaded with "nice to haves" rather than "need to haves". (I think the problem is that some folks have a problem telling the difference between the two.)

In the end it comes down to what the voters decide. If they don't like the increased taxes their vote created, they have no one to blame but themselves. However, there are still too many of our fellow townsfolk that cannot seem to make the connection between the two.

These are not nursing homes. They are high end apartments that you buy into and when you pass on, a percentage of the money goes back into your estate. They cater to couples where one is healthy and can continue to live an independent life while knowing your partner is being taking care of 24/7. There are many that require even higher buy-ins for the very wealthy.
There is one in Lexington Ma, Brookhaven, that was getting 400K buy in back in the 90's. I can only imagine what the buy in now is. I had a business at that time that was within a football field away, the residents were very wealthy.

The sad thing is most people don't really understand what they are voting for.

Ah, Ok. Understand. I wasn't thinking it was a nursing home, which is very different than Assisted Living. In my in-laws Assisted Living place, they have an apartment, but go to the dining room for all their meals and the staff gives them their medications and there is a pub and regular entertainment. There is no ownership/equity, however...just straight rental payments. I was not aware that there were places where residents could have an equity participation.

I learned something new today. Thanks!

I talked to a Meredith resident last night that told me the town was looking for a 12% increase but got too much push back from residents. They "found money" somewhere to keep the increase down. Where did this "found money' come from? Did they have a surplus from the previous year?

This couple picked this particular facility because it was close to their children.
I know this is off topic, but this is what many elderly owners face when taxes go beyond what is affordable to them even though they own the property out right and waterfront is not a priority any longer.

Retirement Communities
 

Entry to one of these communities is income-based. You can buy a cottage with an HOA, or you can rent an apartment. I consider the initial investment as long-term care insurance. No matter what happens you are taken care of until passed. They use any income you have such as annuity, pensions, etc as well as your social security as factors for monthly rent. They even used Medicare and any supplement you may have to pay for medical costs. So the initial investment varies among individuals. When you pass, if you have extra money in savings and annuities, they will be passed to your heirs.

You need to check it out and not base your thinking on hearsay. I can live in my condo off campus should I sign up. If I need assisted living or nursing care. I'm covered. I also enjoy all the benefits of the community such as social events, gym, dining/cafe et al. I enjoy at-home care if needed. It's worth looking into in your late years.

Nice newer huge police station, nice newer fire station, nice recreation center, subsidized lake docks, and on and on.

Who decided that town taxpayers should be in the recreation business?

Also, a new Library and DPW building a new Town Hall will probably be next.

At least I'm glad to visually see where my taxes are going. I wouldn't exactly call the police and fire stations recreational facilities.
After talking with the guy last night, I'm happy they didn't take the 12%.

The town voters.

Yes. Wolfeboro a town of 6000 has a ski slope and a hockey rink. I agree, recreation in a lot of these towns is out of control.

Nice to see a thoughtful well reasoned post amongst all the annual tax whiners.

Lakefront towns often get substantial sums of money from boat registrations that they put back into docks, beaches, etc. These are all good for our biggest industry: tourism.

As we have national parks, and state parks, we have local parks and recreation. In many towns, facilities like hockey rinks and swimming pools were paid for by advocate groups and service clubs who did fundraising. Sometimes a bequest provided seed money. In Merrimack, the Trustees of Trust Funds manage several million dollars that benefit schools, library, parks, etc. These millions started out as bequests that have grown, some more recent that will grow. In recent years, we spent $100K four years in a row to upgrade 4 school libraries. We spent $300K to make gymnasium bleachers ADA compliant and rebuilt the playing surfaces that were 50 years old. Some years ago (250th anniversary) a group of citizens organized the town to build a park and bandstand at NO cost to the taxpayers. That's who decided, along with the voters. This goes on all over the place, but nobody knows it.

I'm pretty sure my parents live in this very facility--Brooksby Village? With all due respect, your posts are a tad misleading. The target Brooksby buyer is moving in because they are no longer able/willing to maintain their house. The basic economics are that you sell your home and use the proceeds to buy a condo. As noted above, your children sell the condo at a controlled price when you die. You're not going to make $ off your condo, but this is not an economic hardship, it's just being old. So unless the couple is different than the typical Brooksby buyer, I think this is different than being forced off the lake due to taxes.

Brooksby is a very nice place for folks no longer able to maintain a house, and as noted above, they have various levels of nursing care available. Plus good food and social stuff--it's kind of like a college dorm for old people

I have an elderly friend who has lived at Brooksby Village for over 20 years. She and her husband sold their very nice home in an upscale community nearby and he has since passed It is a good social setting for people who are not as mobile as they once were. The monthly fee for a two bedroom is currently $3,511 after a buy in of $438,000 to $578,000 and includes meals, cable, internet, and all utilities and taxes. It is not for everyone but it is an option for many.

https://www.ericksonseniorliving.com...llage/about-us

Ski Slope Not So Much...
 

For Wolfeboro, 6000 sounded low, so I checked. The 2023 estimate (the newest) is 6600.

What stood out (to me) was finding 17% are under 18 years old. (I would have guessed a lower number). :confused:

Wolfeboro's ski slope has been around for many seasons, so it must be the hockey rink that is costly.

They aren't forced to sell because of taxes but he did tell me that his children couldn't afford to take the place over so that was a factor in their decision. They are fortunate that the property is worth a lot of money, but they were hoping to finish out their lives there. They added a handicap ramp to aid in their staying in the home but that was eventually not enough to keep them in the home.
At some point the waterfront becomes a burden more than a place of peace and serenity. But others in my neighborhood have cashed out because the cost of keeping their homes has exceeded their income level and the value to sell high was too tempting.
Everyone has their own crosses to bare.

How much does the town chip in to keep the rink and ski slope going? I know they recently renovated the rink. No idea where the funds came from. I would like to think the rink is close to break even with all the ice rentals.

I can't speak to how Wolfeboro funded its rink, but Gilford just got a grant to help renovate its rink. The town has to match the grant funds, something that has to be approved by voters in March. The town still has to pay for the renovations, but only half of what it would have otherwise paid if not for the grant.

They just built a new hockey rink- don't quote me but I think it was around 13 million and part of it was raised by donation but I don't remember how much. In recent years they got a new tow, a new building and they make snow.

I would love to know the answer to your questions but it's not easy to find out. I think Back Bay Hockey wanted to buy the rink but I don't think the town wanted to give it up. As I said to APS, making snow can't be cheap and they make it for the ski slope.

I was aware of this and absolutely agree that you COULD go to the "deliberative session" if they wanted to. However, people pushing SB2 were emphasizing the problem of sitting through the long combined deliberative session and voting. They emphasized the ease of just voting (cluelessly) under SB2.

I don't think SB2 encourages responsible citizenship. "Easy" citizenship, yup.

In the modern world, where much of the population doesn't have a standard schedule, ease means something.

It does make it a bit more difficult for those that support a spending line to make their case in a differing format.

If you seek easy solutions, you deserve the results that you get.

I've been fairly happy with our results.

SB2 allows me to vote on the issue, even if I can't make the schedule due to work/etc.

Very few things are emergencies, and the basic items we generally understand.

Are you saying you think the deliberate session is more difficult than the town meeting? Not sure what you mean.

ALFs vs. CCRCs
 

As I sell Long Term Care Insurance and have for 25 years, in my experience, the whole Down Payment question is only associated with Continuing Care Retirement Communities aka CCRCs.

CCRCs allow for "aging in place" meaning while you may reside in an "Independent" area on the grounds at first, as your needs increase you can move to the Assisted Living Facility/ALF area on the same grounds, perhaps a Nursing Facility also on the same grounds and the most expensive-the Memory Care unit or wing. Bottom line is that you don't have to move-the CCRC theoretically can provide soup-to-nuts services in one location.

While I have not read an Application to a CCRC in a long time, all have some sort of sum of money you must produce as part of the move to a CCRC. Some give some of back at death, some I have read give perhaps 90% back at death etc.. While they are similar contractually, no CCRC I have encountered is the same. Read everything they give you.

CCRCs may not look like one especially if you only focus on say, the ALF part.

No ALF any of my Clients have ever moved to required any Down Payment of any kind. You choose and pay for any services you need above what is included in the Contract w/the montlhy rent according to any Plan-of-Care/POC you may have.

Contrary to popular opinion Long Term Care Policies pay for all sorts of things provided at a CCRC as long as you meet the claims criteria. Where you live is for the most part not even relevant.

Some folks cancel their LTC Insurance coverage because-for whatever reason-they were under the impression that because they paid money upfront to move into a CCRC that the coverage was redundant-not so and generally a big mistake.

Probably about the same...
But the schedule is harder.

SB2, I have all day to vote and it only takes a couple minutes.
The deliberate session, I can choose to attend or not depending on if I have an issue I want to address.

In town meeting, you have to sit through the whole thing and watch issues hashed out that sometimes are more a pet peeve than serious savings/spending.

So you're saying the town meeting is harder because you can't vote without sitting through the meeting right? I agree and the town meeting is often at night and runs very late so that sometimes people leave and then a vote can be brought up again and revoted.

"They" want everything. Yet complain when it comes time to pay for such.

I hear over and over that these same people are against "big governement" yet wish to build and buy the biggest and bestest of "stuff" - by that same government that they so dispise.