For the record
 

I did get a tow out of the way of traffic, I then had to row the 100 yards to shore. What are you trying to say Aquadeziac, that this didn't happen to me. It is well documented since I sent a letter to the Union Leader, who posted the story in the paper the following week, and a copy of the letter I sent to the head of marine patrol, signed by my mother inlaw and sister inlaw and her husband, to tell him what happened. To this day I have not received a call back or letter about the situation. If you do own a boat I hope this happens to you so you can experience how we felt that night.

Bwi
 

Isn't it better not to have too much to drink, whether the MP is there or not?

BK, you are somewhat sidestepping the question/issue here. WHO towed you out of the way of traffic? Was it the MP? If it was, their obligation to you was completed after your boat was towed clear of traffic. If MP didn't tow you but another boater did, then help WAS available. Did the MP offer to call someone in your behalf? Did you refuse a call to a marina or boat dealer? Even though those places might have been closed, MP could have a list of emergency numbers for them and a tow might have been negotiated. Like it or not, MP is not the AAA of the water.

It is a shame your family had to endure that unpleasant event, but boating can be iffy at best. Preplanning can take some of the sting out of experiences like yours. Making sure all your gauges work and having them serviced if needed. Having your engine tuned and your drive unit serviced annually will help keep the tow boat away. Your fuel gauge didn't crap out that night, I am sure. If you had any time on the boat, you should have known how long the fuel would last and where the gauge should read after a given length of time.

A cell phone might have been a good thing to have, along with a VHF radio. Flares are worthwhile at night when all else fails. I hope you are better prepared now 10 years later.

Too Much to Drink
 

Yes, but that is not the point. If you go in and have dinner, by the time you get seated, eat and get back to your boat it has been a couple of hours. Now when you leave the Marine Patrol is following you out and looking to stop you for any reason, that is a violation of my Civil Liberties (IV Amendment rights), it needs to stop, they act like some par-military organization that thinks they can do what ever they want. Next time they stop me for no reason I am going to hit them with the biggest law suite they have ever seen. That will put an end to the way they completely disregard due process.

Point by point
 

I was towed out of traffic by a guy in a 21ft Bayliner, he was affraid to go to close to the docks because he didn't know the area, it was night time so he set me a drift apporx 100 yrds from the nearest docs. Ran into him in Wolfboro the next summer, I bought a round of ice creams for his wife and kids. He should have applied for the Marine Patrol, because if he was one of them he probably would have given me a tow.

The Marine Patrol didn't offer to call any one, they told me that they had to stay where they were because of the traffic and it was not their responsibility to help when someone runs out of gas.

I didn't have a hand held cell phone at the time, if I did who was I going to call at 12:00 at night, what Marina is open until then. There was no Tow Boat service on the lake, they have only been around the last 5 years or so.

Why I ran out of gas had nothing to do with the condition of the boat, it was brand new. Turns out the gage was broken and needed to be replaced. Guess how I found that out, I RAN OUT OF GAS!

Lastly, Marine Patrol didn't do a thing! They left a boat full of kids and family to drift and fend for themselve's. What is it you don't get! IT WAS A TERRIBLE THING TO DO TO SOMEONE!

BK, why don't you just say what you wanted/expected MP to do? Tow you to a gas dock? Where? How far away? What about the traffic detail they were assigned? Abandon that and let dozens, maybe hundreds of boats go wild while the MP unit was tied up towing your one boat back to wherever? Your expectations and attitude may have influenced the officer, but their policy is still not to tow boats unless life, limb or property are at risk, and only tow far enough to remove the vessel from danger. The fact that another boater gave you a tow is evidence that help was available. If that boater would have towed you to shore, would you have been happy then? You claimed that gas was three miles away and you had to walk, so your problems wouldn't be over at shore. Was that the responsibility of the boater who helped you?

BK, you sound pretty disturbed for such a seemingly minor thing. I understand your feelings about the MP and don't necessarily agree that your point is correct. If I was put in your position that night, I might feel differently.The MP made a judgement call that night and felt there were potentially more important issues to come at the end of the fireworks, than you. I think you aren't going to gain anything by posting your grudge here on the forum, as most viewers and posters, as I read are seasoned boaters on the lake and understand what happened is par for the course. Move on to more important things and learn from your experiences. You are not going to change anything regarding the MP nor gain sympathy for your "crisis" from most of us readers. I bet you check your guages and all your gear before you head out on the lake at night after this experience now, don't you?

Nightwing

I'm curious; since you stated the MP's policy, do you have access to the MP's written SOPs for various situations? Or, perhaps Skip might chime in, here, if he does.

A 10 year old incident is kind of stale to get upset over, but it would be useful to know what kind of help to expect from the MP under their current protocols.

And, yes, I belong to Sea Tow (have since they became available on the lake). I have both their national and local response numbers programmed into my cell phone (as well at the MP's phone number.)

But, I admit that I would be somewhat shocked to be abandoned to drift around in the dark until Sea Tow arrived!

Silver Duck

I do Now
 

I do have Sea Tow and Boat USA programed in my cell phone, great point. That was 10 years ago when cell phones where not that available and Sea Tow and Boat us were not.

What I wanted from the Marine Patrol was some guidance. It was late, there was so much boat traffic I was afraid to be drifting in the area I was in, I thought another boat might hit us. I did not expect them to take me to the boat docks because I knew they were probably closed at 12:00. When you say what did I expect? Great question, I did not know what to expect from asking them for help. They drove over to me to see why I wasn't moving. As far as my attitude, it was friendly and concerning. I needed help, I had a boat full of kids that and an elderly grandmother, How else do you think I was acting? I was with my family, out watching the fire works. I guess I assumed when they came over to me they would help me, I was wrong. They told me they couldn't help, it was not their responsibility, pushed off and left me there, that was there answer to the question, what did I expect. I can answer that question now, NOTHING! Because that is what I got. I would have taken a tow to shore if it was offered. As far as having to get gas once on shore, that is what it is, I didn't mind getting some exercise walking to and from to get gas. What is it you don't understand, they came over to me, I told them I was out of gas, they told me they couldn't help me, and they left! Everyone on the boat that day still can not believe the way Marine Patrol just left us out there. If I had been hit by another boat it would have been criminal on their part.

Minor thing
 

The next time you are left stranded out on the lake with a boat full of kids, at night, with boats coming at you from every direction rushing out after the fireworks, your out of gas. With the boat rocking, the kids crying and your mother inlaw asking you to do something, ask yourself how Minor a thing that felt like at the time. I have learned from my experience, I have not run out gas since, I do make sure all you equipment is in fine working order, and most important, I don't count on anything from the Marine Patrol. Oh, and I like the great elephant, NEVER FORGET!

"traps"
 

Who are the ones they are catching when they set these "traps" or sit by the Weirs Channel? The morons who don't understand or respect the 150' law... and I can bet that most of the ones they catch probably have never heard of it. Just don't give them a reason to stop you and you will be all set.

As far as "spying" on the NASWA I am sure that is not their intentions because the Weirs Channel is obviously the busiest part of the lake and its been said 100x before that people seemingly start to behave when the MP is around.

They are doing their job and your friends who got stopped after coming from the NASWA probably had a light out, expired decal, non-contrasting bow #s... or any of a hundred LEGAL reasons why they were stopped. I dont see any difference between that and being stopped for having a plate light out on the highway, and frankly if someone gets arrested for BWI because of it then the lake was made a safer place thanks to the MP who took the time to find a less obvious infraction.

I can't believe your lack of intelligence, how does it improve the quality of anyones safety by pulling someone over in the channel and going threw the life vests, horn, bell, fire ex. and all the other crap involved by this 19 yr. old want a be, when my bow #'s weren't contrasting enough. Black letters, red boat. They hassle people plain & simple, get it through your head, wether you've not been stop or not, I don't care, it was totally unnecessary, had a boat full of guests, kids included. What kind of example did that set. They are not doing there job correctly and I will not believe otherwise. :(

Correct spelling, punctuation, tense and all those basic grammatical rules would go far to add credibility to your statements.

Rage does not read well when mixed with carelessness. If you can't spell it, you can't sell it.

Yes I can. It's pathetic.

Hey BK,
I can imagine now how you felt that night, based on what I've seen coming out of Wolfeboro after the fireworks, I agree that it must have been pretty scarey for the kids. I am not knocking you, I feel at a minimum that if I was the officer that I would stay near to you until a tow came to help you. Sometime just being there adds a degree of safety. Travel the New Jersey turnpike at rush hour, if you see a car with a flat or disabled along the road the trooper will push you out of the lane of traffic in his car and sit in his car behind you until help arrives. The trooper rarely gets out of his cruiser as a safety measure, they use their Pa system in the car to communicate. I feel if you got anywhere near this type of treatment you wouldn't be so pissed at the Mps and...as you said...never forget. See you on the lake next summer and if you do run out of gas, and I see you sitting there...I'll tow you. Why? It is the right thing to do, thats why.

MP magnet
 

I've been pulled over four times by the Marine Patrol.

1) 'Sailed over in my new sailboat to watch a boater get ticketed on a busy day—and got "pulled over" myself! I didn't know of the "new" law regarding non-powered sailboat registration, and I talked my way out of the ticket.

2) Stuck without wind in another sailboat very early in the season, and was the only boat on the lake. I was given a written warning by Officer Westegren regarding the specific law which wasn't in the handbook, but was available online. I wrote to Director Barrett with documentation. The Director replied in writing, saying I was right on the law. (Officer Westegren is no "kid", and is a former U.S. Marine.)

3) Out rowing my boat for exercise on a weekend, and an MP came over to see what was "wrong".

4) Stopped again this year without a registration sticker displayed (no other boats out, again), and got "the drill". NO FIRE EXTINGUISHER???? I pointed in the direction where it should have been mounted, and he mistook a red bug-spray can for it. :emb:

Fortunately, my boat was full of collected, wet, floating Spring debris, and he let me go.

I've never been stopped by an outboard-powered MP.

Back in 2000 or 2001, the MPs made a REALLY big media deal about DUI enforcement on the lake. Still, I'm wondering if the problem is the MP's or NASWA's. :confused:

Okay -- I've tried to stay away from this thread the best I could -- but the Naswa (trapping) set me over the edge.

I personally HIGHLY doubt that MP sits there and actually "Logs" in bow #'s of arriving patrons -- my god, have you ever seen what that place looks like on a sunny, hot Sunday-- let alone a Holiday!! They are not complete idiots -- they are fully aware that they would have a much better (as you say) entrapment rate if they simply drifted off Braun Bay (and I know thats another whole thread unto itself --SO DON'T start).

I actually find it comforting that there is a patrol boat "lurking" around the establishment when it becomes extremely busy. It hopefully will make someone think twice before getting behind the helm and pass the keys over or better yet -- take some additional time and have a few soda's before setting out. Perhaps if they were "lurking" off the Naswa a few years back the Littlefield incident might (who knows) have been averted!!! I find MP actions (in this senerio) no more offensive or different than when a cruiser sits outside the High School dance!!

Further, in my humble opinion -- it gives them the perfect place (the channel) and opportunity to check (visually) for obvious boating regulations i.e Life Jackets on kids, no one hanging/sitting on the bow rails, current registration decal, overloaded boats etc etc etc --- for my money thats a good thing.

Finally, to the patrol boat that is nine times out of ten at the end of the Channell (Wiers side) on week-ends --- I have to tell you that he's there, and has been there, nearly every week-end for the past 20 years!! Our cottage looks right out onto this area! Their stops are for the obvious -- the 150' rule -- and I must admit they take particular notice (perhaps too much) of the Jet ski's versus boats!! I think your notion that they radio ahead from a "spy" boat is giving them a little to much credit for deviousness (if that's even a word)

I'm done ............. Don't bother to tear this post apart for I won't be responding .................. Marine Patrol for all of us is a love/hate relationship ... no different than your local or State Police. When you get bagged in a radar trap you hate them. When something goes wrong or god forbid any other situation occurs what is the first number you call?? Your mother or 911?

Phantom

Don't be looking for me to tear your post apart; anything that gets a drunken operator out from behind the wheel before they have a chance to hurt somebody is just fine with me!:D Nor do I consider hanging out in Braun Bay, etc. watching for instances of BUI to be entrapment.

As for monitoring the channel, it's definitely better to takle care of getting kids off the bow and into PFDs before the boat throttles up. (Though it might be better not to make the actual stop in the narrowest part of the channel unless there's something really dangerous going on.)

The MP is also welcome to board my boat for a safety inspection any time they wish. If they ever find something safety-related that I've overlooked, I'll figure that they've done me a service and are owed a sincere thank you!

Silver Duck

That law is not "new", it has been around for many years.


That officer hasn't been an MP for several years. Please cite the exact law you are referring to.

When is the last time you saw any landside police unit tow a car to a gas station?

BK and Wired seem to have a problem with authority figures.

Sounds like Phantom has summed it up quite well:

"...When you get bagged in a radar trap you hate them. When something goes wrong or god forbid any other situation occurs what is the first number you call?? Your mother or 911?"

If you play by the rules then you should have nothing to worry about. It's your responsibility to know the rules before you go out to play. Some just need to grow up and learn the rules.

'Been around...
 

Well.......So have I! :laugh:

I'm curious just when that law became "new". Maybe in the crush of the mid-80's :confused:, as I'd been sailing happily without numbers, stickers, or emissions for years prior. (Even before the MPs had Marine Patrol embossed on their sides, and in years when they would tow you.)

Too bad. Officer Westegren, and all the other MPs I've encountered have been very professional. (And should have mentioned that earlier). The law was RSA 270 E:4.

Director Barrett's letter got laminated and is now secured in the boat. When the boat gets unwrapped in April (March? :)), I'll scan it in here. It's nice to "win one"—and I'll share it. ;)

The problem with rules
 

The problem with rules is that they are often purchased by political action committees. It is hard to have respect for some rules, such as those established for a specific group. For example; those scared of boating in the same lake as big fast boats. Maybe its a matter of growing up, but I think its more an issue of giving up and letting others control every little aspect your life. Some people like that. Others don't. Rules are made to be broken. You just have to carefully choose the ones you break.

please explain
 

Please explain to me since it's quite plan to see I have "a problem with authority" how "not contrasting enough bow numbers" according to a teenage MP is a threat to someones safety. I'd really like to hear this one. ps. I've never had an issue with the brave men in blue who are trained professionals. Seems like this thread and alot of others here like to get people all defensive. Do you even have a boat SBC?

Rules are made to be broken????
 

That is fine BUT when you get caught breaking the rules you have to accept the consequences.

Of course the other problem is some people think it is ok to drink and then get behind the wheel of a boat or car. Then other people may have to accept the consequence of your actions

I am sure that most of the folks with the negative posts on MP had attitudes to start off with. In my life I have been stop by MP once and they were just fine. I was 100% in the wrong and I spent 45 minutes of my day with them as the did their inspection. Hey, I was wrong and had no problem……………….guess what? I did not get a ticket.

I recently had a boat break down and although it was not in NH. MP is not allowed to tow there either. I told him I understood and not to worry about it. He said they could not for insurance reasons. I understood and had no problem. I never asked him for a tow nor did I hint at it.

So, guess what? He towed me back to the docks while I waited for help. Funny how these folks can be so nice to some people and so mean to others? Might be time to look in the mirror don’t you think?

Did you forget that those "brave men in blue who are trained professionals" will stop you for a plate light out, expired inspection sticker or registration? Are those "safety" items? Of course not, but to put it bluntly, they will give your "trained professional" reason to pull you over and stick his nose in your car and then ask you for license and registration, which he is probably hoping is under suspension so he can arrest you, at the same time sniffing you and your car for odor of booze or pot, as he visually scans the interior for signs of any contraband that will give him reason to bust you.

As far as ragging an officer because he or she is a teenager, why don't you let yourself be heard by the NH Police Standards and Training Council? They have determined that an 18 year old can be trained to be a cop, or as you put it, "a trained professional." That 18 year old would put himself in between you and a bullet if he had to. That is part of his job, keeping you "safe."

Age bias such as you have exhibited is against the law in employment situations and in extremely poor taste on the street.

Legibility counts...
 

A citizen who reports a drunk boater would need a boat registration number that is readable.

"Medium-sized, white and blue boat" doesn't get the job done. :rolleye2:

please explain for wires
 

Take a gander at: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...-E/270-E-8.htm
for the number display requirements. These numbers should be as plainly visible as those on your vehicle's license plate. To not have them properly displayed is an open invitation for scrutiny by the MP that might not otherwise be warranted. White lettering would be a much better color choice for your red boat. BTW a hair dryer and patience work well to remove the old numbers and stickers.

While we're on the topic, your registration validation stickers come with specific instructions about the location of the sticker, which should be to the right of and within six inches ofthe bow numbers, regardless of port or starboard. That is how they are displayed on my boat.

Sounds picky doesn't it? Someone in this thread mentioned the 'hundreds of reasons' that could be used to pull someone over for a stop on the landside. So you have to ask yourself, if someone can't even display their bow numbers in accordance with the law, what other laws or safety requirements might they not be complying with?

270 E:4 covering vessels exempt from registration requirements went in to effect on January 1, 1991. Strange that you had never heard of it. It has been publicized in the boating guide for many years.

Nice to hear from someone who doesn't think his rights were trampled on by MP during a boat stop. It was win-win. You got an education and MP got future compliance. ;)

Yes, I agree white letters would be better. It is very different than a license plate though. MP really should only be concerned with the color of the reg. sticker. I myself can't read or make out bow #'s from 20+ ' on a moving boat. The issue I have and some people commenting on this thread, is that I feel I WAS harassed for a stupid reason. I'm in my 50's, nice big boat, NH taxpayer, boatful of family members just looking for peace & quiet on the big lake as we have for 20 yrs. and were stopped in the channel and given the 3rd degree, ie: all the safety stuff. I'm not opposed to the safety check at all but I don't need some kid, and yes I'll keep saying that because he was a kid. Polite but still a kid. Most of these MP's aren't certified police officers as many people seem to think. In my opinion as an observer and not a violator, except for the black bow #'s, time was wasted for this stop. I will say that I live on Paugus Bay, therefore I do see a lot more of the MP than many commenting on this thread. Everyone has their own opinion and why some people are so adamant about tearing apart everyone else's opinion really bugs me. I Even had a poster say my post was out of rage and It was obvious since I couldnt' spell. I type fast, get over it.

Some might be happy to note thoat our MP were indeed patrolling the lake on Saturday afternoon... I was taking in a late afternoon blast with my GF and her daughter when I spotted them moving at headway speed in the Broads off of Welch Is.

We all complain about noise, or 150' rule violations etc, and there are some here who don't like hi performance boats. Lord knows there is never seems to be an MP boat nearby when Capt. Bonehead drives by me and does one of his signature bonehead maneouvers. However... I think the MP do a great job with the funding they are given. They do make the lake safer... even if its just sitting off Weirs Beach doing nothing. Just their presence seems to calm the waters a bit, making people a bit more mindful of the 150' rule.

To the MP officers... Thanks for a job well done!!

Woodsy

actually they are certified police officers

"Every State Trooper, Conservation Officer, Liquor Investigator, Gaming Investigator, State Corrections Officer, Probation and Parole Officer, University Police Officer, Marine Patrol Officer, Sheriff or Deputy, City or Municipal Police Officer, full or part-time, in the State of New Hampshire received their primary training and much of their in-service training through Police Standards and Training." - Police standards and Training website

DUI Enforcement
 

Acres, they still are working hard to catch DUIs, and they should be. But going about it by sitting and waiting for people to leave the Naswa, that is just entrapment. They are making up reasons to stop people when they leave, that is wrong according to the constitubion, Bill of Rights IV Amendment.

yes exactly
 

I agree, when someone seeks marine patrol everyone obeys the rules, to bad marine patrol couldn't be there all the time!!:emb:

I'll probably change the black bow numbers to white one's this spring, I just don't want to be hassled on the lake for something so minor. Never really been close enough to a BWI or wanted too, to read their bow #s. I'd most likely be looking for a transom boat name, so not quite buying that reason if that is a fact. I'd have to be way to close to that boat to read any kind of #'s and quite frankly I'll stay far away from them. I'm not sure about this but if your boat is "documented" that you even need bow #'s @ all. Also in someone elses post, I know for a fact that you do not need to be a certified police officer to be a MP, some maybe, but that doesn't mean they all are. All may have to go to a criminal justice or police standards school but most are still training to go to a criminal justice field. I had an apprentice electrician a few yrs' ago who is now in the FBI and worked for the MP in the summer while school was out. I know first hand how the MP enrollment works. Most people would be surprised that the marine patrol actually patrol all bodies of water including rivers & ponds. I see them alot here on the Merrimack River. They aren't here every day but they do patrol here & there. It was a great job for this kid who started out till something opened up @ a local police dept., got to take his boat home, around water everyday, but marine patrol @ least in NH is a spring to fall job for the most part, perfect for criminal justice students or retirees, there may be some exceptions of course so please don't respond with a negitive reply. Just trying to shed some light.

MPOs are certified police officers....
 

You are correct, wires1999 is wrong.

Within the Marine Patrol you have a mixture of part-time and full time certified officers, but all officers are certified through the New Hampshire Police Standards Training Council.

Part-time certified officers are limited to a maximum of 1300 hours of work annually. Full time officers obtain their certification by attending the full 12 week police academy at NHPSTC while part-time officers attend a 100 hour academy. The Marine Patrol, as do virtually every other law enforcement agency in the State, conduct additional in house mandatory training concentrating on specialties relevant to that particular agency.

As noted previously, the minimum age for a police officer in the State of New Hampshire is 18.

Skip, actually I was incorrect with the term "certified". Most MP officers are considered "part time certified officers." There is a big difference with part time police officer education than there is for full time police education. I'm sure it depends on the dept. they are on or applying for, since the Police Academy, as I know it has no tuition. The tuition is usually paid for by the dept. they represent. MP trainees are certified but most are "part time" officers in the early stages of their careers. As I said in a post not yet posted, this was a terrific first job for an apprentice I had several yr's back. The website for new hampshire marine patrol clearly state the requirements and in fact is always looking for good help in the spring. It is a great way to start a career in criminal justice. If I was 30 yr's younger I'd love to start a career there. My helper actually got to take his MP boat home and I was always envyous that he got paid to spend the day on the water. He only worked in the summer though.

Marine Patrol
 

Let me say this about the Marine Patrol, for all the verteran officers that are out there every year that do a great job, thank you. I do not envy you for having to put up with the new-bee's they hire every summer to help you out. Their in-experience have been the route to all the problems I have had out on the lake.

The stop was in 1992.

Unpowered boats that were legally-unregistered in 1991 and legally without registration numbers, were among the least likely to ever receive the boating guide.

R.O.W. and routine overtaking above headway speed are rare occurrences among unpowered boats. Safety issues are inherent in sailing—and sailing after dark isn't practical with fluky lake winds. Night-sailing on a residential lakes is a comparatively high-risk practice anyway—lights ashore being what they are.

Wel-l-l-l-l-l...there were two MP questions infringing on 5th Amendment rights on that 1992 stop. Those were understandable errors that were easily made with the requirements of that "new" (new in 1991) RSA 270 E:4 law. (And I couldn't/didn't comply anyway).

More effective enforcement of BWI infractions in large boats would be a good thing; otherwise, all is well with the MPs and me while afloat. :)

BTW: One NHMP boating guide I received stated, "Boaters are discouraged from standing in their boats".

(Like you never see that). :rolleye2:

So, all during the 1991 season and part way into the 1992 season, you never noticed a small sailboat, even a Sunfish, that was displaying a validation decal? OK, maybe you don't look at other boats.

Boating guides aren't mailed out or automatically given with registrations, but are usually readily available in most marinas and boating supply stores in addition to registration desks. Certainly MP headquarters would have them available. Boating guides are a good thing to review every year, just to see if there have been any changes, plus they are tools to review your present knowledge. Just be aware that they are printed for informative purposes, but are not law books. Sometimes mistakes are made in printing and not discovered until later. Serious errors are usually covered by a loose page provided with the guides. Any questions about any boating law should be directed to an officer or headquarters. If you wanted a boating guide, there were plenty around.

What might those two questions have been? As far as compliance, I would imagine that you have complied by now.

If I may paraphrase a note at the bottom of Skip's posts:

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse.";)