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What's with the mod moving all the posts around, it's getting a little old.
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My guess is Post #79 did it. :look: NB
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Groton Wind when complete will have 24 turbines spread across the ridges of Tenney MOuntain and Fletcher Mountaiin. Tenney Mountain is home to the now closed Tenney Mt ski area and is maybe one to 1 1/2 miles east of neighboring hill in Plymouth that is home to the PLymouth Wal-Mart and group of professional health care clinics and offices known as "The Health Place" campus, plus a Tractor Supply retail store plus somecoomercial lots for sale.
It's a good spot to view about five of the turbines which have been constructed butyetto be in operation. |
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I wonder if the low frequencey noise of the wind mills will effect the condominiums at the bottom of the the abandoned ski sloop? Melvin Rd, etc
This is the Wind Turbine location Map in Groton: |
Where does the power go?
I have worked for the power company since 1978. Mostly in production but also in distribution.
To say that the power made in NH goes to the southern NE states is only half the truth. Power distribution throuout New England is controled by the Indipendent System Operator (ISO). I used to work for them. While it is true that the major load in NE is in south eastern parts of NE the price is the same every where. For example at six oclock this morning the price of electricity was 19.81 cents per kw. Depending where you are it might be a little bit higher or lower due to impedance losses on those long runs of wire. The grid is the gred. Power from my plant (I'm at work now) goes on to the grid (115KV) and is supports the high line voltage. This voltage is the same all over NE. In fact we are in sinc. with every AC power source from Canada to the rockies to the gulf. Only Texas is isolated. So when you say that power from NH goes to other states but cheap power made in NH lowers everybodies bills and cheap power made in CT. lowers everybodys bills. Misty Blue |
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All this typing you put in an can be debunked with one example. The Netherlands. And to think people actually go their to SEE the windmills and buyt trinkets of windmills as momentos of visiting Holland;) As someone who travels around the world and gets to see very large windmills in operation, they do work. A lot of red herring misinformation is flying up and down these posts. |
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As for windmills, they work. Obviously siting matters. I'd put one in my backyard it if made economic sense. |
Property value
A good friend of mine owns one of the condos next to the Tenney Mtn. ski area. Even though the tubines are about 2 miles from her property, a realtor/appraisor told her to expect a property devaluation of 20%
She is already taking a hit when the ski area closes. Location, Location, Location. |
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The unfortunate thing about wind turbines is that you need many of them in one area to produce enough electricity to make it worth while. |
As of August 26, approximately 18 of the 24 wind turbines have been put up. How's the long distance view of them now, looking from Rattlesnake Island?
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Bottom line
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None of the power produced from these plans, windmill or Northern Pass is going to benefit NH. Yes there may be some jobs created but very few will be employee's from NH communities. I firmly believe that if the power is going to benefit another state then we should not have to endure the scare on our landscape. Furthermore there is absolutely no reason to build towers spanning the Canadian border to Mass when there is an option to bury any power lines. This would eliminate most if not all opposition to the the Northern Pass project. As for windmills I think enough study has been done to determine that they don't produce enough electricity to offset the cost at least in NE. From my understanding there isn't enough windy days to produce enough electricity to make them cost effective unless they are on the coast. |
"TOKYO, Japan, September 14, 2012 (ENS) – The Japanese government has decided to phase out nuclear power by sometime in the 2030s and shift the country in the direction of renewables, energy conservation and natural gas.
There will be a 40-year limit on the lifespan of nuclear power plants, no new plant construction and no expansion of existing nuclear power facilities." LINK Some are just so short sighted here in New Hampshire. |
Fox 25 News
Saw this on last nights news.....
Wind power is all the rage in Massachusetts, which has invested nearly $6 million in projects since 2010, and across the country, where President Obama touted its importance during the first presidential debate, but a review of wind power projects in the state reveals these projects are facing numerous problems from mechanical failures to lower-than-forecast energy savings. New wind turbines are regularly sprouting up in Massachusetts, touted by Gov. Deval Patrick as proof that the heart of the clean energy revolution lies here. They are paid for partly through a surcharge on consumers' electric bills. The clean energy revolution is sometimes not living up to its promise, as seen in the wind turbine at Forbes Park in Chelsea. It's been idle for almost three years, installed as part of a high-end green condominium development, which is also at a standstill. "Absolutely it's frustrating to see it not moving. And we're hopeful that it will get spinning again soon," said Andy Brydges of the Massachusetts Clean Energy Center, which investshttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png money collected from electric bill surcharges in clean energy projects around the state. "Why isn't that turbine moving?" FOX Undercover reporter Mike Beaudet asked. "The whole development isn't moving. It was a real estate development that was meant to be a green development," Brydges said. The failed development comes with a public cost. The Chelsea project received $500,000 in 2007 from a state trust funded by the electric bill surcharges. "Was that a waste of money?" Beaudet asked. "I don't think so. I think if you look at all the money we've spent on wind, we're getting a very good dollar-per-kilowatt hour return on our investmenthttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png. It's too bad, and hopefully that project will come around if the housing market rebounds, and it'll get restarted and prove to be a viable project in the long term. So it's an unfortunate, but we hope a temporary situation," Brydges said. For the rest click on link. http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/197...r-green-energy |
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Crotched Mtn Wind Farm
Reminds me of the above. Lots of government money went into it as research and development. The project amount to nothing.
Why can't we have water turbines built into the sides of the bank of the Piscataqua river? As the tides flows in and out, the water will give a steady power to an attached generator. Out of sight, out of mind. |
It looks like all 24 wind turbines are up, but with the curve of Fletcher ridge it's difficult to say if it is 23 or all 24. Driving down Rt 93 north or south, you can catch a very very quick view between the trees in the close proximity to Exit 26, Plymouth, looking up the Baker River valley. All the towers and 3-blade propellers, which supposedly are 300' high, are a reflective white color.
These two mountains that are home to the 24 turbines are just south of White Mountain National Forest and are seperated from it by the Baker River. It seems like local people have varying different opinions on the new 24 wind turbines....but one thing is for sure......they are very, very easy to see from the very well used Rt 25-Tenney Mt Hgwy in Plymouth, plus the newly installed 100' wood utility poles and wires that run down Tenney Mt Hgwy are also very easy to see. Wind power......catch the power from a windy mountain ridge high up in Groton, NH........owned by the largest electric utility co in Spain ... www.iberdrolarrenewables.us/groton.html .....sell the power to N-Star electric utility in Boston, MA. .....pay a large signifigant property tax to the small town of Groton, NH. Question for this Sunday morning: So, who the heck benefits from these here 24 wind turbines that are each about 300' high and why? The headquarters building for the local electric utlity, the New Hampshire Electric Coop, is located on Tenney Mt Hgwy in Plymouth, and the 24 turbines can easily be seen from that location, but how-o-how do those turbines do anything to benefit the NH Electric Coop users who sure pay some very high electric rates? This includes myself. Every time I drive past the Electric Coop, I think about that and try to figure how the turbines have anything to do with the local users of electricity??? So, what's the connection? Is there a connection between the two? Maybe try googling: "Wind farm proves windfall for tiny town of Groton" Union Leader, August 2012 for an article and email comments. ......... From the Oct 1, 2012, Waterville Valley WigWag, authored by David Britton, an article titled : "Wind Farm: Something New On The Horizon". If the WigWag is on the internet, I couldn't find it, but here's some of the info from the article. "Each of the 24 turbines will net the Town of Groton $22,000/year and this increases by 2.5% annually." "Iberdrola is moving to complete its $120 million, 48-megawatt project by the end of the year." " Selectmen inked a 15-year-agreement with the Spanish wind energy giant Iberdrola which brings in $528,000 in the first year. The 2012 Groton town budget is $546,000: if all warrant approved warrant articles are included, it totals $742,000." "Each of the 24 wind towers is, from foundation to tip of blade, about 300 feet high." ........ Here's a couple of comments..... "I think the windmills are actually quite beautiful. There is a sleek elegance to them and they follow the ridgelines with an almost fluid quality. Now if Groton will only curb the urge to spend, spend, spend, their citizens might actually see real benefits from having the power company essentially pay all their taxes." "While the windfall may benefit one small town, it is an eyesore as far away as Lake Winnipesaukee and Squam Lake region. A number of towns were never involved or notified about the situation. Is this the future? Big brother destroying the scenery? Maybe we can abilished the 'view' tax." |
The Engineers Report
Our Town Owned 1.5 MW Turbine has been inactive since June 16 with a broken gearbox. The engineers report just came back yesterday. Lots of metal shavings in the oil. Gears and bearings chewed up. :(
The engineers are calling our turbine an orphan. It seems 3 out of the 5 of this turbine (AAER Canada..now defunct) installed in the U.S. has failed the gearbox at around 3 years. Ours is just over that. The warranty was for two years. SO: AFTER we spend $800K to fix it, the report says.. AND... IF the new gearbox...same model as the last, lasts 10 years, with all routine expences and income considered....the turbine will run a deficit of ($400K) per year. We still owe $2.4M on the current loan. :eek: I used to like this machine. Let the buyer beware. NB |
IMHO this orphan windmill should be scrapped before Portsmouth, RI goes bankrupt.
Here is the breakdown for the gearbox replacement cost, recurring additional costs (annual), annual revenue estimate, and operating cost: http://localhostr.com/file/lq7l70L60...mill-costs.jpg |
RUSTY: I considered linking to the town website but knowing Don's aversion to OFF Lakes Region stuff I didn't link.
Here's what I posted on our local "Portsmouth Patch". Google "Patch". "I just read the entire report as well. I Voted against the turbine. When I watched it being built I became a BIG supporter. Looking at the Balance Sheet in this report, one can only conclude THIS turbine is an albatross. This report makes the decision easy. I am really saddened to say this, but I think it's time to take the machinery down and put the remaining tower to some other use. BTW: Fairhaven, MA just put up Two turbines just like ours this past spring." :look: NB |
NoBozo,
I think it's educational for the Lakes Region folks to know what problems other communities are having with windmills. The more we learn about it, the more it will help us make a decision if a Lakes Region town wants to put up one similar to the RI one. I hope Don allows you/us to keep the forum up to date with the Portsmouth, RI turbine problem. |
You don't even need RI info
Google prior wind farms project in NH. All are failure and millions of dollars are lost. If I find the feds bankrolled this wind farm and the farm eventually failed, I would make sure there will be no more money pits in our hills.
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Wind is a great idea, solar is a great idea, as are other forms of newer energy. However, they are not perfected and if and until they are, we shouldn't be throwing money at them. With all the things that we can do, it seems we could use these or some other kind of energy. We are so cold in NH, it makes it harder than warmer climates to make alternative energy work.
Now wasn't that a brilliant statement? Nothing nobody doesn't know but just had to vent I guess. :laugh: |
Having worked in the mechanical engineering field most of my life I have a tendency to enjoy reading technical documents like the "Gear Box Failure" of the Portsmouth, RI wind turbine. http://www.portsmouthri.com/document...ne_Gearbox.pdf
I would love to be in Germany when they Perform the forensic teardown of failed gearbox to narrow down root cause of failure. The only ones that have failed in NH are buried at the foot of Crotched Mountain (and they were a big failure) so I guess no one will be writing anymore reports about them. The other wind farms in NH haven't been running long enough to have failures (to my knowledge anyway) so we'll just have to wait and see. |
Ride up 93
I took a ride up 93 to see a friend of mine off Tenney Mountain Highway. As soon as I crest wind sock hill past Ashland, I saw the windmills clear as day. WOW! It travels from one hill to the next, to the next! What a way to greet the tourists to the White Mountains!
As I was traveling the Tenney Mountain Highway, it is obvious of the Paul Bunyan size utility poles and wires. I can imagine a semi snapping one of those poles and the thousands of volts traveling through the wet ground. Its like a nightmare! |
Probably only Rusty would be interested in this Video of the Portsmouth Town meeting where the consulting engineer presents his case..A replication of the report that Rusty linked to... BUT More detailed... This will be tedious...but informative to those with an engineering background. :look: Be prepared to spend over an hour. :) NB
PS: I have had the opportunity to read an "unpublished" paper report...WELL beyond the report on the Portsmouth Website that Rusty linked to. I am impressed with the consulting engineer from Seattle. http://www.theportsmouthrecord.com/T...3.12.Flash.htm |
Thanks NoBozo.
Everyone in the video seemed to be very calm considering the severity of the gear box problem/s. Portsmouth, RI thought they bought a Cadillac and it turned out they got a Zastava Koral. :( |
Politics Matter
We have had an almost clean sweep of the 7 member town council....from Republican to Democrat. A previous Democrat town council voted to build the turbine. The 2 Democrats that were the minority on yesterdays council now have plenty of like minded company in todays council. They have been steadfast in their desire to repair the turbine for reasons one can only guess. :look:
SO: I predict the turbine will be repaired...No Matter how much it costs every year to run. Dam the (Deficits) .....Full Speed Ahead. YUP After all, it's GREEN and "the right thing to do". :D NB |
Just noticed about an hour ago, that two of the more prominently placed windmills were turning round & round; they look pretty good too, something about their movement makes them a lot better looking than in a stationary position. Start em up.......that wind is blowing good......let's go make some electro-magnetic energy.......baby!
:banana::banana: Two dancing bananas represent two out of the 24-total wind turbines turning, maybe five miles away up top the mountain ridgelines in Groton, as seen while driving down Rt 25-Tenney Mt Hgwy, westbound in Plymouth, while driving to the Wal-mart! One can get a pretty good, up-closer look from the Wal-mart parking lot. Round and round and round they go; cranking out electro-magnetic energy, paying out $22,000+/year, for each wind turbine, in local property taxes to the Town of Groton www.grotonnh.org, click on GROTON WIND, plus supposedly making a profit too; pretty danged amazing! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_electricity Attention: On Monday at 8:40-am, there will be a 20-question, multiple guess quiz on the etymology of electricity. |
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$22,000 x 24 = $528,000/yr to the little town of Groton. Spin Baby Spin!! :D |
I am a BIG fan of Vestas..the Biggest wind turbine company in the world: I was snooping around on the internet today and found this:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...-hardship.html :look: NB |
OH: BTW: Hey Less..those stinkin bobbin bananas are very distracting....Just Sayin..:D NB
WAIT A Freakin Minute: I think Rusty ..embelished on Less's post.....YUP.. |
You can stop any moving avatar by hitting the Esc key.
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:banana::banana::banana: three dancing bananas represents three wind turbines out of 24-total turning.....looking in the rear-view mirror, driving eastbound on Rt 25- Tenney Mt Hgwy, I could see three wind turbines turning earlier today....this morning! Believe they are located on up high along Fletcher Mountain ridgeline........ayuh........by golly......round & round & round & round they go......making electro-magnetic energy......aka electricity!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity "Wind power is of increasing importance in many countries." In the wikipedia article on electricity, "wind power" is a clickable link and there's a photo of a wind farm too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power |
Groton gets the cash
Plymouth get THE POLES.:eek: What a JIP :confused: I HATE THEM THINGS. :eek2: (poles)
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None of the ten or so wind turbines were turning today, but still a very impressive sight! Now that all the leaves have fallen off their trees, it has dramatically opened up the view from Rt 93, northbound, running the relatively short stretch between Exits 25-north to Exit 26, so now one gets about a 60-second look at the flat ridgeline atop Tenney Mountain while driving north, and the late afternoon sun clearly illuminates that ridgeline. Each one of the 300 (or 400?) foot high, all-white wind turbines has a reflective white surface, and easily catches and reflects the low angle, late afternoon sun; at least it does this time of year, so they really stand out against the blue sky beyond. Sometime soon, like in the next couple-three weeks I suspect, all the 24-turbines will be turning, and it will be some extraordinary sight to clearly and easily see about ten of them while driving north on Rt 93.
Who knows, maybe the state can rename that short stretch of Rt 93, between Exit 25 and Exit 26, to be the "WIND TURBINE MILE" and put up an informative and historic sign? :banana::banana::banana:three dancing bananas represents three out of 24 turbines turning. |
Almost all of the 24 white wind turbines were turning with the winds yesterday morning......maybe 16 to 20 could be seen from the Tenney Mtn Hgwy as you get off at Rt 93-Exit 16....and their looks kind of grow on you.......they seem to look
a lot better when turning than when not turning. What the heck.....at least they are doing something and making somebody some money.....and as you probably already know......one cannot eat the view! Each turbine costs maybe 5-million dollars because supposedly the whole project cost 120-million, and there's 24-wind turbines. Anyone know how much electricity one turbine makes in a 24-hour day, and how does that translate into how much does Iberdrola get paid by N-Star for directing their wind power juice down to Boston? Unlike a car with a battery, all the power that goes into the grid must get used immediately because the electric grid has no storage reservoir for electric power similar to a car's battery. Apparently, Groton must have a lot of year-round wind to make this very expensive project doable? Who knows but as ski areas start to fade away what with the warmer winters, and more wind turbine towers get built, maybe New Hampshire will become known as the "Wind Turbine State." Looking at the ten or so wind turbines that are relatively close up to the Boulder Point-Plymouth medical center that is high up on a hill, it is very easy to see all the old and no longer used ski area trails of the now defunct Tenney Mountain Ski Area, and the neighboring wind mills high up the ridge. So's in this location, the mountain has gone from a ski area to a wind turbine area? Unlike a ski area, a wind farm is a business that runs every day and month of the year......just so long as the wind is moving. :banana: Will refrain from posting all 24-dancing bananas here so just use your imagination!:banana: Could be that Iberdrola wanted to get all 24 turning by Christmas as their long term goal?:banana: |
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