I have nothing against powerboats. I never suggested that we ban powerboats from Winni. And a 45mph speed limit would not ban any powerboats. I just have an issue with feeling safe around boats that are traveling at high speeds, and with any boaters who do not obey the laws.

No matter how you try to look at this, the fact is that 45 mph is a safer speed than 75 mph.

I'm sorry if you're offended by my quote. But you're reading into it a lot more than you should be, after all, kayakers are also boaters.

Please don't lump me in with other people's views. I never wrote or even suggested that any type of boat should be banned from Winni.

Well in fact what I am saying is that for a large part people that drive high performance power boats do have very quick reaction time. You have to to know how to throttle one. People who do not know how to drive one just DO NOT UNDERSTAND what it takes. You do not just jump in the thing and push the throttles forward and sit back. There is a lot that you have to do and it all takes quick reaction times. So in fact I would say that there is a good chance that my reaction times are better then most.

However lets take reaction times out of the picture and say that we all have the same reaction times (there is plenty of proof that this is not true but just for arguments sake). What my point was above is that when you go faster be it in a car, sailboat, power boat what ever, most poeple concentrate quite a bit more on what they are doing. People that drive around in small bow riders from what I have seen are not as well aware of their surroundings as most of us that drive fast and will just turn with out looking, come to close (as happened to you with the jerk in the cruiser), or even take them out in conditions that they just should not be in. I have on more then one occasion seen guys out with bow riders and the waves coming over the bow because they hav 10 people in their 18 foot boat. :rolleye2: :rolleye2: At any rate ALL of the close calls that I have had on that lake have been while traveling at slow speeds NONE of them while traveling fast. I have no interest in going close to another boat. I have no interest in pissing off some guy in a Kayak and ruining his day. I run my boats in the middle of the bays were it is safe to do so and I think that most of the guys that run speed boats are the same.

Jon

No it does not kick us off the lake however it does keep us from using our boats to their full potential. I mean if you just spent 150-500K on a boat so that you could go 80 or more MPH then I think that you would be upset, no? However lets forget all that as no one has shown a lick of evidence that a speed limit will help. That is because it does not exist. Lake George has one as has been mentioned. Guess what they have found it to be totally impossible to enforce. Unless you are in a bay hauling past boats close no one there will pull you over for speeding. However common sense says that you do not do that so is the limit really required. I am still for more boater knowledge then boater limits.

Jon

What about my grandmother
 

My grandmother doesn't like to drive on the highways, cause the crazy drivers go really fast. (reality most are doing the speed limit)

So your theory is since you don't feel safe we should change the laws. Maybe we should lower our highway speeds while we're at it, so my grandmother would feel safe. She likes 35 mph, be long a trip to the white mountains doing 35mph on 93.

I know, sacarsm at its best. But laws are design to resolve problems from facts and to accomondate society's growing needs. I bet there was a time when New Hampshire was beautiful when only horse carts traveled the road ways. But we all know, horses can't travel on the highways now.

As my previous post stated, I'm all for a speed limit IF it would make our lake safer. Doing 75 in a boat designed to safely go 75 is just as safe as doing 45 in a boat designed for 45. Did you know there is a law already on the books for reckless boating which has a misdemeaner penalty, any issues brought up in this thread would fall under that law and it carries a higher penalty, the proposed speed limit is only a violation.
Getting hit by a boat doing 35 in a kayak, still gonna hurt when the driver is not obeying the current laws.

Evenstar, as has been said in earlier posts, the speed limit even though it does not ban a specific kind of boat has the same effect. High performance boat engines do not run at their optimum efficiency & the hull is not giving you the optimum ride at a speed of 45 or less. However, it will at 50-60. Thats why many of us against the speed limit think that the supporters are using 45 mph, why not make it 60 or 65 mph? Because they are not so interested in limiting speed as they are trying to eliminate a class of boat they do not like.

The fact that you may not FEEL safe does not translate into you ARE NOT safe. You are just as unsafe or dead at 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45 mph. If a boat keeps the proper distance so as not to create an unsafe condition whats the problem? Like you said in your 1st paragraph, last sentence you have a problem with boaters who do not obey the laws like the one in your first post, that was not a speed issue, it was an unresponsible operator issue. We should all have a problem with boaters who do not obey the laws. I have a problem with any boater who may come too close (under 150') at any speed.

P.S. My comments about the quote were tongue in cheek. If I were that thin skinned I would not be posting on this forum.

Was that for MY benefit , being an out of stater??


[/QUOTE=Evenstar]Apparently you don't know kayaks very well. My avatar image is a 16' sea kayak. That's the type of kayak that I'm planning on taking on Winni. A sea kayak is make for very large bodies of water, not for small lakes and ponds. A sea kayak is not 11 or 12 feet long, but 14 to 22 feet long.[/QUOTE]


Yes , as a matter of fact a friend has an Ocean kayak. And strangely enough I've never seen one more than maybe 100 yards off the surf. I know I certainly wouldn't want to get caught in the Broads with a fast moving thunderstorm rolling in :eek: . Lets face it sea kayak , ocean kayak , canoe , row boat , surf board can go anywhere the skipper wants , but sometimes disgression should over rule your ego :( .

Well SAID!
 

There enough laws on the books they just need to be enforced. But how do you do that? More MP may be the answer but I don't see it happening.

It's not the size of the boat but the boat operator.

Too few cooks spoil the soup?
 

Well, I gave up.

Couldn't get Frank M. or HALCLYON to fess up whether their Winnfabs group was legit or not. So, with some spare time (and no spatula) on my hands, I decided to give some of my local legislators a ring on this subject.

Boy, is it hard to get a hold of some of these people!

Anyway, here's the skinny from the folks good enough to give me some time today.

The Bill as proposed is dead, will never come out of committee as currently written. No support in the general legislature for it for a number of reasons:

The 45 mph limit proposed is simply an arbitrary number with no statistical or scientific data to back it up.

No support from the State, in particular the MPs. Apparently they are so undermanned and underfinanced now, when they were unable to make a dent in the violations occuring above 45 mph, they'd spend more time fielding complaints than handling them! Until the MPs get more funding and support for current regulations, look for little more in the way from the legislature in "piling it on" to the agency. Contrary to popular belief, fines collected from violations go mainly to the court system, not to the issuing agency (wow, would never know that reading the posts here).

The legislature is overwhelmed with school funding, budget deficits, ethics scandals, etc. Most of the legislatures have no first hand knowledge of the Winni issues, see it as a minor blip not worthy of time/effort. Told that since accidents are so far and few between, when balanced with what goes on around our roadways everyday, most wish everyone would just "grow up" over this issue and quit wasting their time (wow, really sensed some frustration here).

The squeaky wheel has squaked too much, the same hadful of people are supposedly doing the complaining, and quite frankly some are tired of hearing the same old doom & gloom. One legislator jokingly pointed out that after hearing a local marina owner complain about sppeding boats, he took the time to visit that individual's web site. Lo & behold this guy had a number of go fast boats for sale at that same marina! The hypocrisy did not sit very well with this particular legislator.

All said they would entertain a well thought out piece of legislation that had sound data to back it up, if & when it could get the backing of the MPs.

So, the issue does not to completely dead. Somehow, somewhere and sometime there might be statewide legislation governing speeds on lakes & ponds. But it appears a long way down the lake!

Phew, that's it....I did my homework, I'll post no more on this subject....don't want to be accused of overgrilling a dead horse!

Sorry Franky & HALCY, good shot....looks like you need to get your ducks lined up a little better....but there's always next session!

Salute! :liplick:

Cal,
This is a great idea. You should make this recommendation at next week's committee hearing. Or better yet, see if you can get a bill introduced. If nothing else, I think it would do so much to expose the mentality that we are contending with here.

Loud Gfbl
 

Audiofn hit the nail on the head. This bill is about LOUD boats that also happen to go fast. I am not in favor of imposing a speed limit on the lake, I don't think that should be necessary. I have no objection to a boat traveling down the middle of the broads at 75 mph, but I don't want to hear it for the entire length of the run. I do object to listening to the relative peace and quiet of the lake disturbed by a GFBL tearing across the broads at 7 am or 9 pm with his thru hull direct pipes resonating off the islands. There is no sound on this lake that carries as much and is quite as disturbing as one of these boats that can be heard for miles and miles. There are plenty of GF boats on the lake that are quiet, and I don't object to them. The issue has been discussed previously, but why not retrofit a decent muffler system on these boats and remove the reason for the objection to them on the lake in the first place. Please don't tell me these pipes are legal: Some probably are and others are probably not. They are objectional to many people. Yes, it might cost a few mph on the top end, and a few dollars out of pocket, but wouldn't it make a significant contribution to solving this entire issue? That said, with the current state of the issue, I would probably support a speed limit on the lake, especially at night, if it would help remove some of these boats from the lake and contribute to a quieter environment for all. :)

Acres, if you spent any time at all in either of these two threads on speeding, you would know why I apologized. (hint: it was to Bear Lover) I have a suggestion, take ten minutes and you'll know the answer. I'm not stating it again. If you can't spend the time to find out the answer, then it must be not important enough to keep posting about it.

I asked a simple question. Other people have answered that simple question. Then you come back with this complex theory of gobbility goop.

Let me rephrase the question so that maybe you'll understand:

On any given weekend, how many GFBL type boats are enjoying Lake Winnie?


I'll even make this easier for you. I'll make it multiple choice:

A) 1 to 3 %
B) 4 to 5 %
C) 6 to 10 %
D) over 10 %

Thank you......FO

p.s. your theory is all wrong because a single boat only takes up "X" amount of space regardless of how fast or slow it may be moving. As it moves from space "A" to space "B", space "A" is now free of boat, thus that space is now "open".

"A wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse"
 

You are right. Many boat accidents are due to boaters not seeing what is around them. You would think that good vision would be a prerequisite for a safe boater. It has been mentioned on the forum a few times over the years. We have our vision checked when we get a driver's license but not for a safe boating certificate.

Not only do we want boaters to pay more attention to their surroundings they should have the ability to see their surroundings. You can be legally blind and still receive a boater education safe boating certificate which allows you to legally drive a boat.

What good is knowledge of the 150 foot rule if you can not see things 150 feet away?

Well thank you for showing your mentality on the subject. :rolleye2: :rolleye2:

I would find it hard to believe that was anything other then a joke :emb: :emb:

I can understand your objection to the noise of the boats. However, I must say that myself and a lot of my friends have gone through some HUGE expenses over the last few years to make sure that our boats comply with the law. I know of a few people that have special inserts to put into their exhaust so that when they are on Lake Winni they are legal and are willing to do so happily and yes they do loose a few MPH. At any point THERE IS ALREADY A NOISE LAW ON THE BOOKS and it IS enforced. I know because a few years back I was asked to leave, fixed the issue and have not had a problem there since. FYI it cost me almost 5,000 bucks to quite my boat, and others I know have spent similiar money if not more, so it is not a cheap thing but if that is what it takes to comply with the law then I am fine with it.

Jon

Hey APS:
I have a question for you. You in one of your posts said that at slow speeds we can not see over our bows. So why do you want us to go slow? Wouldn't that according to your logic make us more dangerous? :laugh: :laugh:

The "real truth" is that we don't want you to slow down. We want you to take your boats to a body of water that is appropriate for them.

Be honest, when this speed limit passes that is exactly what you will be doing, right!

No contrary to your beliefe my boat even though my boat is capable of speeds much faster then the proposed speed limits due to conjestion in most area's I rarely get to go faster then say 40. So I will still be coming just as often as I do now and so will every one else. So your ploy to get us big bad bullies off your lake may need a new direction. You will just have to listen to our motors for that much longer as it will take that much longer for us to get from point A-B..... :rolleye2: :rolleye2:

Again Bear do you have one LICK of evidence that shows that we are a danger to anyone more so then any other boat on the lake? I am still waiting for any evidence that you have other then your insistance that we just do not belong on the lake. See this really bothers me as I have every right to be on the lake as you do.

Ski Man & frank m.
 

You guys need to pull your head out of wherever it is your keeping it.
I think you’ll find there are many of us out there who are able to drive safely even at what you consider unreasonable speeds. As has been stated before the MP who are also against a speed limit have the ability to stop people whenever they deem it is in the best interest of safety.
Hopefully it will be taken into consideration where the people pushing this bill reside from. If they are from out of state then their opinion shouldn’t matter anyway because they are not residents, weekend warriors do not count even if they own million dollar homes. But we appreciate their generous tax dollars providing good schools for NH kids.
Either way I think you will find the opposition to any speed limit to be far too great to overcome.
Besides who’s going to enforce it the MP? The same people who spoke against it? Makes me wonder just how much effort will be placed on enforcement.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: That's not what has happened on other lakes, is it? When the bill passes there will be lots of long slips available on Winni.

I don't need to prove speed is dangerous. And why I want you off the lake doesn't matter.

I don't know if a speed limit will pass this year. It may be next year or five years from now, but it will pass. And in your heart, I think you it. That is the way things are going these days. You may slow down the process but you will not stop it.

Before long the only place you will be able to go fast is "Offshore".

Noise??
 

If there is such a concern with noise emanating from the GFBL's why is it illegal in NH to have switchable exhaust systems on lakes? Makes no sense to me. It is not illegal to have thru-hull exhaust and it is not illegal to have exhaust divert through the prop under water so why should it be illegal to switch between the two? Heck, let it rip in the broads but muffle it in the congested areas.

I have been passed by pontoon boats that can now do over 45mph, shall we outlaw pontoon boats too? By the way, why have some of the people for speed limits on this site from past posts using gfbl's as their avatar?

This speed limit battle will never be over. Even if it ever passed which I do not think it will the enforceability will be non-existent. The budget is tight enough as it is that they will never be able to afford enough MP and equipment to enforce it. The revenue generated from tickets will not offset it. My vote has and always will be "NO SPEED LIMIT"!!!

(Hipocrite, you meant...and disappointed).

I just wanted an out-of-control GFBL image; but...oka-a-a-y, the avatar has been changed.

Happy now?
.

I count on the Marine Mafia ITSELF to keep me up-to-date on GFBL fatalities and GFBL hit-and-runs.

You've taken the Coast Guard course?...and can't spell Coast Guard?


Your own GFBL Marine Mafia site concluded that Tanqueray was the most favored beverage afloat (aside from beer, that is). Here's another from your fellow GFBLs:

Or...

Or...

Or...

Or...

Or...

Or...

.

It's been my experience that the GFBLs accelerate when they get into protected bays and harbors. They "sight-see" at 60+ MPH. (But it's not about sight-seeing, is it?)

It's about being seen.

I do not believe a speed limit bill will pass on Winnipesaukee, There are too many well informed boaters.
FYI the broads are considered "OFFSHORE"

Live free or die baby

Acres you are just jelous that people actually like to look at our boats as we go through the harbors and are rafted up to the docks and they don't care about yours :rolleye1: As for pulling off our site that there are a few idiots that drink and boat well good for you. Out of the THOUSANDS of memebers you found a few..... If I had the time to go to sailing web sites to look at what they are talking about then I am sure I woudl find MANY more posts then that. You want to know why? Because the mentality is heck I am only going 5 knots how much damage can I do.... LOTS!!!!

At any rate I am glad that You all are finally at leaste admitting to why you truely want to speed limit. You think it will make it so we do not want to come to the lake. You think that it will make your lake quite and peacefull. Why don't you all go after the wood boats? They are often times running strait pipes? I know of a bunch on that lake that do not pass the noise laws but since they are what they are you do not make a stink about them. I think it is just sad that you guys do not have a clue about how these boats run or any of the people that own them and you judge us all. What is next..... no people on the lake unless you are white???? :rolleye2: :rolleye2:

Yes, I thought that was pretty obvious.

And ego has nothing to do with owning a boat that goes 75 or 80 mph?

The fact is that the first 100 yards off shore is the most dangerous place to kayak in the ocean. Many experienced sea kayakers go several miles off shore, and going even 12 to 15 miles out isn't that uncommon.

And being a tree hugging hippy has nothing to do with owning a kayak? Come on man of course there are a few that buy them because they think they will get them some hot date or what ever but most of us own them because it is FUN and we ENJOY it. May not be your cup of tea but how do you know if you have not tried it. I have at leaste tried to kayak...... Any time you want I am perfectly willing to give you a ride just let me know. Then maybe you can understand things from our perspective a little better and see that we are not ego maniacs

Thread Closed
 

I am closing this thread. Very little about the pros and cons of a speed limit are being discussed and many of the messages now contain little more than insults and attacks on other posters. The worst of those messages were not approved and don't appear.

Since I'd rather not have to reject more messages and everyone seems to have had their say on speed limits it's time for this topic to close for now.