Wrong again APS.... as usual!
 

Lakers have no more right to be loud any other boat unless the boat built was built PRIOR to 1968 and they have been issued a PERMIT. You really need to brush up on the laws BEFORE you state your OPINION as FACT...

NH Boat Noise RSA:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...270/270-37.htm

Switchable Exhaust RSA:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...270/270-25.htm

Read RSA270:25 very carefully especially as it pertains to 270:25-II Note the wording....

II. A boat may be equipped with a switchable device that will reduce the exhaust noise level in compliance with the limits established by RSA 270:37.

By legal definition the switchable exhaust can make a boat already in compliance with RSA 270:37 quieter. It cannot allow a boat to exceed RSA 270:37.

Get your facts straight.... oh wait... facts don't matter to you.

Woodsy

"Ding"...


another Round begins !

:confused:


.

Lake Amphibian
 

I guess I will buzz around APS house and do some short take off and landing out front just to get his goat. Those Lycoming engines with variable pitch pusher props can be quite loud. Oh and I am quite legal by the way!

BroadHopper threatens to harrass
 

So, that is your answer. Someone does not like your noise so you will cruise around the persons house. What a jerk.

Pot calling the kettle black
 

Man, if that's not a personal attack, I don't know what is. :(

Give me a break
 

What else but jerk would you call a person who threatens to harass a forum member BECAUSE their opinion is that they do not like the noise from the performance boats.

You are free to opine as am I...but when someone crosses the line and talks about harassment then we are no longer in the world of opinions are we?

Lordy, Lordy, please send this mess back to the dungeon!

You are most certainly entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else. However, calling someone a "jerk' just because you don't like their post or their position on something is uncalled for in my opinion. If I were allowed to refer to everyone on here that have opinions, positions and agendas that I don't agree with, then the Forum would be loaded with them. However, that's not the case. Agreeing to disagree (respectfully) seems far more pleasant than unnecessary personal attacks and name calling.

On Hiatus to Grumman Thread Tomorrow...
 

"Harassment comes with the territory".

Agreed...Lake amphibians are the loudest single-engine aircraft over Lake Winnipesaukee, but only because stock Republic Seabees have nearly disappeared. :laugh:

What FACT was that? Sure, one can be made legal by shuffling new conditions into the RSAs.

Thanks for the reminder for Lakers; now, how can I tell that the Laker going by has a "PERMIT"? How could it be any louder than ocean-racers? A Cobalt shouldn't be making the same volume of noise as a Laker with a "PERMIT". Compare these two short videos:

http://vid70.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2de4d346.mp4

http://vid70.photobucket.com/albums/...psba384928.mp4

Thank you for the references to the changes to the previous RSA. I see there's a yearly "creep" as to what newer engines may be allowed to create more noise:

Are all the noisy boats in my Labor Day video now in compliance with the newest RSA?

I didn't think so. :rolleye1:

It appears the RSA was deliberately "crafted" to make noisy interruptions legal—beginning with the change from the former (and dangerous) 100+ MPH run-by tests.

Who would fault NHMP for copying New Jersey's recent dockside noise-testing standards? 'No point in risking an officer being run over at the very high speeds that accompanies the vast majority of "performance" boats.

This opinion still stands:

Ummm....
 

APS...

Your last post illustrates my issue with you and others like you. You post your OPINION but state it as FACT. You have a right to your opinion, and I do respect that. However, I will call you out when you state your opinion as FACT...

Its not my fault you cannot comprehend/understand the noise laws... they are VERY specific and VERY enforceable! This is so simple a 5th grader could understand it!

The noise (Db) limits set in RSA 270:35 have not changed in OVER 20 YEARS! So regardless of your opinion, there has been no "yearly creep" or increase in the allowed exhaust noise. Boats manufactured after December 31, 1990 are subject to a STRICTER noise standard than those manufactured prior.

The noise limits for NH are NOT arbitrary numbers. They were derived from noise standards & statutes from both the Federal Gov't, other states & marine manufacturers (NMMA) and the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators (NASBLA). NASBLA are the ones behind the Safe Boater certification standards. To wit, the NH boating noise laws follow the NASBLA noise recommendations from 1989 to the letter! Hard to believe we have had the same noise laws for over 20 years.... the HORROR!

The switchable (Captains Call) exhaust allowed under RSA 270:25-II does not allow for anyone to exceed the noise limits set forth in RSA 270:35. In simpler terms, a boat cannot be in violation of RSA 270:35 regardless of the switchable exhaust. Sorry you are having a hard time understanding this VERY SIMPLE law.

But why let facts get in the way of your anti-performance boats BS??

As to the rest of your post...

You (or I) personally have no way of knowing if an old Laker has a permit allowing an exception to RSA 270:35 short of getting the bow numbers and asking the NHMP. I seriously doubt they have ever issued more than a handful of permits. I would think they tend to be nostalgic and look the other way when it comes to the old boats. (as most people tend to do)

Unfortunately for you, your videos.... they prove nothing. Other than some boats were out enjoying the lake and they annoyed you enough for you to video them. Given your propensity to sensationalize a subject, who is to say those videos are not edited to increase the sound level in order to prove your point?

Are you a qualified sound engineer? What was the ambient noise level (db) prior to those boats running by? What was the actual noise level (db) of the boats? Exactly how far away were you? What was their bearing relative to you? Where is the DB meter showing the readings in your video? When was it last calibrated? Etc etc...

The bottom line is... It is your OPINION that those boats in your videos were too loud. It is not however a FACT.

Woodsy

Oh boy.:eek::eek:

Take it Off Line
 

Good God! Can't this be taken off-line thru PMs rather than subject us all to the finger-pointing, name calling, ridiculing, and down-right nasty tone this has spun down to? Please?

I viewed the video's there is no comparison to make.... The conditions are not the same....

I will give up on trying to reason with you, as both Woodsy and I have tried to explain the reality here...... the lake is no nosier, with the switchable exhaust now legal.

I think that it is crazy that you spend so much time trying to prove your case. I am sorry that you vision of the lake, is not in tune with others. I have tried many times over the years to put Facts out before this forum on maters of noise levels. But the message seems to get lost....

Bottom line in a stationary test dockside the MP will evaluate exhaust noise, on the loudest setting.... if the boat passes, then the switched exhaust setting will only be quieter.... like wise in a at speed test, the boat is monitored to ensure the exhaust switch is appropriately set. Not to mention that muffling the sound will cause damage to the engine at full speed. Once again the limit is the based on the loudest exhaust method. switchable exhaust only makes the lake quieter....

The only thing I will agree with you on, is how are you to know when and if a boat is legal.... If you want to waste the MP time, and call in everytime you think a boat is over the limit that is your choice, and I am sure if possible they will check it out.... But Personally I would rather the MP spend their time looking for serious safety violations... and educating boaters.... not administering noise tests.

I live on a very busy portion of the lake, with boats racing from the LI bridge to the six pack all summer long..... yep once in a while it gets noise, but never in over 25 years, have I not been able to hold a normal conversation and have issue hearing people. Even when the neighbor 4 houses down starts his boat...with it thundering exhaust.

For all of those folks that don't like the arguments here, I offer the disclaimer placed directly below the "LAKE ISSUES" title:

This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into arguments may be moved here.

Not only that, but this is a public (well, semi public) forum. To anybody that feels they don't want to be subjected to all the finger pointing, comments, innuendoes etc, let me just suggest that you don't click on the link and read the threads and posts in this section. Problem solved.

I'll Step Away
 

Never saw that disclaimer before since I usually go to the 'New Posts' section to check out the postings.

I'll leave you all to your cat fight. Enjoy!

Ok, Interested New Guy...
 

Because I'm new and because I'm not a current boater (or even resident till later this year) I'm trying to learn from all of you about all the issues of the lakes and the region. And if there is more to be constructively said, I'm all for reading it. And though it seems to take dives into personal jabs, it does bounce back to interesting facts.I do have one question though. Is ground (or water for that matter) being made in the debate? I will admit that I get lost occasionally, but that could be my newbie ignorance. I have a feeling that there are some more factoids to be learned. Would it be possible to get a recap of where we are at? I mean if the discussion is making progress?

MGWillia, this forum had a very heated debate a few years back when a controversial speed limit was being pushed for Winni and ultimately passed. As Pineedles posted, the Webmaster had to make a special section because of all the members that were sick of the back and forth. It was his way to appeaze both participants and non participants. This thread has a little bit of that left over.FWIW

New Guy
 

As reported in the Weirs Times Flatlander article, and I can't remember the exact words, but basically there are folks that feels there are tooo many boats on the lake. They figured they can 'outlaw' boats. They are effective as the state published every year in the past decade that boat registration on Lake Winnipesaukee has declined. You can also attribute the decline on the current recession. If that's the case why has tourism increased in neighboring states? The Governor has this no brainer idea that the phrase 'Live Free and (fill in the blank)' will be an effective strategy for branding the state. Obviously its not working and is subjected to ridicule.

There are others that would like to turn Lake Winni into the quiet atmosphere of Squam Lake. Due to the commercialism of the big lake, I don't think that will ever happen.

There are talks among 'the chosen few' to claim the lake as a giant reservoir and limit the size of boats and the horsepower. I have not seen this in the legislative halls, but claiming the lake as a reservoir is possible as the surrounding towns get their municipal water from the lake.

What I am seeing is 'When boats are outlawed, only outlaws will have boats!' This forum is a great example of this with all the 'boneheads stories' you read in the past few years. I boat on this lake since the 50's. In the past few years I avoid the weekends between and including Memorial and Labor Day. It is too crazy out there!

There! I open the floodgates!

Save some for me!!
 

Well, keep things safe till I get there. I may not be boating now, but I sure would love to when I get there! Hold the Fort!

The problem is when the thread keeps showing up in " New Posts " and someone opens it thinking there may be something new or worthwhile, only to discover the same old ranting, chest beating argument.
It would be nice if a thread that was exiled to the "special" place would stay there.
So many of the threads on this forum turn into personal beefs it gets hard to know what is safe to read.
And it's really annoying when you read something nasty when you didn't plan on it, then say something about it, and someone on the forum jumps in and basically tells you to not read it.

Don't be discouraged, at its worst, Lake Winnipesaukee is still a wonderful place to go boating. We are really spoiled here, boating in other popular areas is vastly more hectic and challenging. Other than a few choke points, public docks and popular sand bars, the lake is very uncrowded, even on holiday weekends.

For CL, the following disclaimer is placed directly below the "LAKE ISSUES" title:

This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into arguments may be moved here.

So CL if you visit the "lake issues" section be prepared to read something nasty. If those discussions annoy you then do not visit the lakes issues section, stay in the more friendly areas of this site, pretty simple and your blood pressure will be lower. :)

I was talking about " New Posts". First page. Not the special section under forums from where you pulled that disclaimer.

Not sure what you mean by New posts first page. In any event the Lakes issue forum can get nasty. If they offend you simply do not visit that forum was my message to you.:)

Well, I'm glad THAT'S Cleared up!
 

The good thing about following this thread this long is, (yes I know it's posted on the forums, but I just have been hitting new post) But, I now know, why Webbsatwinni was upset that his post was moved. I was like "Well, they are talking about boats, so doesn't it belong in the Boat Issues vs just in General"... Well Now I know. And that's a good thing. I like a lively debate. Good to know there is a place for it. Thanks

Try reading my post again. The performance boats thread repeatedly shows up in the new post section. Why doesn't it stay on the 2nd page under lake issues?

Welcome, glad you get the intent of the lake issues section on this site. Some here still do not get it.

I read it several times and was still confused. I only have one page and the lake issues is on the first page. Perhaps you have a different setting than I do. In any event the lake issues section usually has nasty posts, if that annoys you do not visit that section.

CL is referring to the New Post tab at the very top of the page (left of the Search Tool).

CL, look at the forum column at the far right of that page. The Lake Issues forum will show up. Just don't click on threads in that forum. Or just ignore this thread entirely....:rolleye2:

ps. You'll also notice the following statement the next time you visit if you don't open threads "The threads below have not been updated since your last visit but still contain unread posts.". Eventually it will fall to a different page entirely :)

Thanks, that explains it, I was not aware of the new posts feature. So there you have it CL, if you do not like what goes on in the lake forums section then please do not read those posts.

Wow, as I posted in earlier, there are a lot of things I miss about living in NH, but this isn't one of them.

Think I'm going to go boating :)

Just thought I would post this again of an unfortunate accident of a "Performance Boat". It seems to fit into this thread.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Kp50CSUKBbc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Well, looking for the upside... Hey, didn't that guy do a great job mounting that camera!?

It's funny how the more controversial thread draw the most people. Like it or not, it's true. Still, I don't know why people have to be nasty to each other. Can't we disagree without being mean? I guess we can't, look at the world.

I agree. I am so done. Adios...

NOW

That's funny & sooo appropriate PaugusBayFireFighter !!
(thanks for the morning chuckle)



.

It bothers me that the threads are viewed negatively by so many. I for that I am sorry that they end up on this and other forums. But understand, for some of us, that report and write based on Facts, that this is the only place some of our opposition comes out and attacks us.

In many debates over sound, speed, boat size, etc. I have and will always being willing to sit down and talk with anyone, to understand their side of the situation. Yes as is human nature I have my side, and I will not be not easy change my view. But I will always listen, and look for compromises to give both sides satisfaction.

I have spent a great deal of personal time, money and effort into trying to make sure the boating laws, on Winnipesaukee are reasonable, and fair to all involved. I have had conversations with State Congressional Representatives, Marine Patrol officers, Marina owners, and even Boat owners that wanted to talk. Those talks have always remained positive and constructive. However on here, they break down, and those that break them down, never seem interested in sitting down over breakfast and having a healthy two sided conversation, knowing that I will not change their mind, nor will they change mine, but maybe just maybe we will find comprimise.

Yes this was an unfortunate accident but here are some facts:
-- this didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee.
-- This happened at the Lake of the Ozarks, during an annual event, (this wasn't some random weekend accident)
-- This didn't happen this summer it happened several years ago
-- There are lessons to be learned from this video, like always where your saftey lanyard.

Why is it people are always digging up the past......and using scare tactics..... once again, I don't do this, I just provide facts.