Technically, no. Typical lease terms (and I have no insight about this particular deal) are that any improvements revert to the landlord/property owner at lease end unless other arrangements have been made.

I'm not sure how I feel about the outcome of this. On one side, yes, LL had a long time to plan for this. But 30 years of runway does not mean they should be taken to the cleaners by the city either, IMO the property was way overvalued.

Does Irwins really *need* that parcel? They seem to have plenty of land, this whole thing almost seems mildly confrontational on Irwins part.

I hope Lakeport Landing continues to thrive in the area, we don't need any businesses going away.

Codeman hit the nail on the head. If Lakeport landing really wanted the parcel and if it really meant something to them they would have given their best offer up front.

With the loss of the Formula Line and the attitude in the sales department they probably don't need the exposure and display space.

Congrats to Irwin
 

It's nice to see the good guys win.

The Breeze
Wave 'cuz I'll be wavin' back

Unfortunately in business it usually is...

I have never done business with Lakeport Landing so I have no issue with them there. As far as my non-business related opinion, I was quite disgusted with Erica's actions a few years back and the overall entitlement, arrogance and disregard for others safety related to it. Sounds to me like they thought they could steal the property and got caught with their pants down. Irwin paid a few hundred grand more, obviously seeing the potential and won.

Although some may not think the property was worth much, commercial property can't be compared to residential. The opportunity value was high, high being that Irwin is next door and now can expand further. Also, high in that it will cost Lakeport plenty to relocate. As an owner of commercial/industrial property, prices out there are not cheap especially when it comes to specialized properties.

It is nice to see a family owned business that has been established in the area for what seems to be an eternity to keep investing in the area. The Irwin name is a staple in the lakes region and they are in it for the long haul.

Why don't you throw salt on it too??
 

Are you seriously saying that the Irwin family is a great family business?? A great family business that just forced their neighbors out of their place of business?? The Blizzards BOUGHT the property thirty years ago, but the great family business Irwin SUED the City all the way to Supreme Court. They forced the Blizzards to have to lease the land not buy it. Now that they have been neighbors for over thirty years, the great family business Irwin, has pulled the rug out from under Lakeport by over paying for the property. The Blizzard family worked just as hard the Irwin family for the last thirty years building their business. Lakeport invested alot of money on the property, maintained it, and paid property taxes on it for thirty years.

It appears that the Irwin business has won the battle. I think that really small people will rejoice in watching a hard working successful area business, get forced out of their business home.

Don't you have any appreciation at all for what has happened to a "family owned business that has been established in the area for what seems to be an eternity" ?????? And I am not talking about IRWIN

I have and I do. I'm not going to elaborate on my experience there.....but .....Irwin's has my business and always will. Class act, stem to stern.

The Breeze
Wave 'cuz I'll be wavin' Back

Laconia Daily sun

Both the city and Irwins should be ashamed. I hope it backfires on Irwin's, and also hope that people are disgusted with their actions and will both boycott Irwin's and support Lakeport. Hopefully Lakeport can secure another location somewhere on Union Ave, close to their current location. Too bad they didn't grab that building where Paugus Bay Marina just opened their showroom. I don't do business with either marina, but I can assure you that I will never spend a dime at Irwin's. I used to get gas at Mountain view, but since that's operated by Irwin's, I will now go elsewhere.

Maybe Irwin's will do the right thing and lease the building back to Lakeport?

The city gave them both opportunities to ante up. Lakeport made no attempt to raise their bid, they submitted the same bid twice and tried to discredit the appraisal thinking they could work the system. Irwin played by the rules and went up almost $200k!

Lakeport has sold single boats worth more than they offered for the real estate.

What comes around goes around. In this case I feel that she got what's coming to her.

Heck, for $331k I would have bought it and leased it out....

I've heard many people say the appraisal was much higher than it should be, and Irwin's paid a lot more than THAT.

I think it was fair to expect at least one other appraisal and then have both parties go from there.

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

Appraisal value
 

The appraisal was based before the fact that the city wants most of the parcel converted to public parking. So I think it is fair that the current appraisal is very high. LL was gambling on the appraisal in the July time frame showing a much lower value.

Also LL made over $500,000 in improvements that should have been calculated in the value. I agree with Codeman but as a financial analyst, Irwin Marine's bid is way over the value, and I believe shows a power grab. I wish them the best of luck recuperating the money.

City of Laconia is 'hungry for money'. Hamel has to pay for his huge mistake, the High school sport complex. He was hoping it will pay for itself by renting out to sport teams etc. It is not panning out and will get worst due to the changing demographics. Predicted even before his folly.

Kudos to Baer, although I am not a fan, I will give her a pat on the back to stand up for what is right for Lakeport sector of the city.

I strongly believe Irwin Marine is upset as the city been leasing waterfront to Paugus Bay Marina and LL for dock space. I will not be surprise Irwin will go after PBM.

Irwins has a huge amount of frontage on Union Avenue.
To deprive Lakeport Landing of that little strip in such an underhanded way seems spiteful.
The intention seems to be not to help their business,but to hurt LL

Those are my thoughts exactly. I simply don't see that plot of land doing anything significant to affect Irwin's ability to run a successful business. It does however negatively affect Lakeport Landing.

I don't think Irwin's in bidding a market price, I believe they are attempting to use their resources to ultimately reduce competition and viability of boating in the area.

.... only time will tell?
 

So, what will Irwin do with their new high-visibility addition, the former Lakeport Landing property, starting maybe in 24-months from now?

Will it be more boats?

Will it be pwc's/sno-mo's?

Will it be atv's?

Will it be kayaks, canoes, small sailboats?
................

I have no clue, but my best so-called educated guess would be to use it for pwc's/sno-mo's, since that seems like a good all-year around fit for what they already have for a boats inventory, and I don't think Irwin's currently has any pwc's at Union Ave, Laconia.
................

If Irwin's gets a thirty year commercial mortgage, the $528,000 purchase price divided by 30 years equals $17600/year for thirty years plus the interest, and the entire amount is a deductible business expense against any profits.

So, the question is .... is this new addition worth paying $17,600 plus bank interest per year for 30 years plus property taxes. After 30 years, they would own it if they choose to go this mortgage route? That's like $2000/month or something, total?

Was purchasing this property from the City of Laconia for $528,000 a good business decision for Irwin's?

Your math is a bit flawed. Commercial loans are typically 20 years, not 30. Assuming 25% down which is a standard in commercial, you are looking more like $2600 per month plus taxes. Not sure what the tax bill is there. Still, a small price to pay for convenience and expandability. Granted I am sure they could afford to stroke a check and pay it outright.

here it is period point blank!

THERE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE FEELINGS IN BUSINESS. what would someone not want to take out their competitor to generate more business for themselves

Now not saying this situation at hand is ethical, but if it is legal, then there is nothing to say about it, you choose where you want to spend your money. Everyone had a right to bid on the property and this is what happened. You cannot punish the winner because the others feelings were hurt. Someone might have chosen to over pay and only time will tell if it works out, someone might have tried to pay actual value and because they did not over pay will have that money in their pocket, who knows.

the beauty of Economics and Capitalism.:)
- it is apart of what makes this country great!

Do you want to talk ethics? Have a conversation with Kevin from Paugus Bay Marine about what was done to him by the Blizzards. I said it before on this forum and I will say it again. My old Italian grandmother used to warn me in broken English...."If you do bad things then bad things will happen to you." Business is business...leave your "feelings" at the door. Good business practices are rewarded and bad ones come back to bite you in the a$$

The Breeze
Wave 'cuz I'll be wavin' back

My observation is that Lakeport Landing did not make a reasonable offer using the conditions put forth by the City Council. They tried to alter the conditions and that move blew up in their face. They lost fair and square to the higher bidder. That is what happens in any real estate deal be it commercial or residential. Erica Blizzard and Lakeport Landing made their bed and they have to sleep in it.

Of course everyone is assuming they had infinite financial resources to engage in a bidding war.

I agree. I understand Erica stated that money can buy whatever you want in Laconia. Not a direct quote, but that was the jest of her statement. Open bidding is clearly top bid gets the property as long as the minimum is met. That is the way it is.

R2B

Karma
 

If I had to guess I'd think that much of the financial reserves that Lakeport may have saved up over the years have gone to legal fees. I guess you reap what you sow

Well...It worked for her family for a long time....
 

Welcome to the real world Honey.....Time to put your big girl pants on!!

The Breeze
Wave 'cuz I'll be wavin' back

Editorial by Erica Blizzard from the Citizen 6/11/15
 

The sale of Lakeport Landing to Irwin is unfair, reconsider it
Jun 11, 2015

In 1978, my family purchased Lakeport Landing Marina. They sold everything they had including a vehicle just for the down payment. My father came from less than nothing, but what he lacked in education and money, he made up for with hard work and determination. My parents struggled for years working every day to turn a boat yard, which looked more like a junk yard, into a marina. My father had a vision.

His vision was hindered in 1983 after he rightfully purchased the property located at 21 Elm St. from the City of Laconia for $25,000. An error was made by the city and Irwin Marine sued to block the sale. The mistake resulted in the city having to undo the transaction and return the money to my father.

We ended up with a 30-year lease instead which at the time was our only option. My father always believed that there was an understanding with the city that he had the first right to purchase the property at the end of the lease.

My father passed away on April 10, 2013. For most of my life, I have known how important obtaining this property was to him. I saw how disappointed he was at the end when he realized that his time was running out and this part of his vision from way back in 1978 had not been achieved.

Over the years, we invested over $500,000 in the property in the form of improvements, taxes and lease payments. Last fall we offered to purchase the property for $331,400, which is the assessed value. By this offer, we were essentially purchasing the showroom twice. We had made the lease payments for the last 30 years and also paid to build the building, which in 1983 was in excess of $200,000. It was the deal my father had to take 30 years ago and 30 years later, this is what the city of Laconia felt the property was worth.

I became aware that Irwin Marine also still wanted the property and intended to move aggressively to do whatever it took to obtain it. They are already the largest marina in the state of New Hampshire, so obtaining this property, which is a long, narrow strip of land less than one acre, was not going to give them any more exposure and very little additional space. I couldn’t help but think that it must be some sort of power play when their representatives bluntly told me that they would acquire the property and have much deeper pockets than Lakeport Landing to do so. They informed me that it “wasn’t personal, it was business.” After 37 years of being their neighbor it was both personal and business, bad business.

I was shocked when the City Council unexpectedly made their decision during a time where I felt we were still in the negotiation process. I believe there was a “rush to judgement” and lack of consideration when the final decision was made roughly 30 minutes after looking at the two offers.

Sure, the Irwin Marine offer was in excess of any reasonable value for the property, but I question whether the City Council really had time to consider the fairness of the two offers. Without committing to a final price, my offer included an agreement to keep a taxable building of the existing size on the property for a period of 50 years.

I also agreed to substantially increase the size of another building on Park Street, which would have added to the city’s tax roll. In the long run, the city would be making much more money with Lakeport Landing’s commitment to expand, than Irwin Marine’s one time overpayment.

The City Council took something special away from me to give to Irwin Marine, because they felt this was in the best interest of the city. Who is the city? Am I not part of the city? Is my family’s taxpaying dollars since 1978 not part of the city? Are my employees who live here not part of the city? Was it fair to view both parties as identical even though Lakeport Landing has invested hundreds of thousands into the property and Irwin Marine has invested nothing?

The City Council still has the opportunity to “get it right,” if any one of the four councilors (Bownes, Doyle, Hamel or Lipman) would move to reconsider Monday’s vote to sell the property to Irwin Marine and acknowledge that the process of our negotiations may not have been properly followed.

Erica Blizzard

Laconia

It's amazing that people don't read the leases/contracts they sign. Someone that entitled deserves what has happened.

Irwin Marine
 

desperately needs parking for the valet service and those who trailer their boats and use the launch ramp. I was told that was the original goal of the land purchase, for parking. Since the city is looking for more parking, this has to be the carrot on the end of the stick.

Tearing down the building and turning it into a parking lot, although suiting Irwin's needs, will lower the assessed value of the property and cost Laconia in reduced tax revenue.

Two opposites next door to each other...
 

Irwin Marine is the most respected name in the boating industry of the lakes region for reason..........They earned it..............Lakeport Landing is not.

The Breeze
Wave 'cuz I'll be wavin' back

On what do you base this assessment/opinion?

You reap what you sow
 

Personal experience with both businesses. I wouldn't be this opinionated without direct interaction with both.

The Breeze
Wave 'cuz I'll be wavin' back

Personal Experience
 

I have personal experience with both businesses. My family and the Irwins grew up together. Although Blizzard is a 'late comer', he has the family's trust and have given us plenty of business.

They are both trusted businesses with similar philosophies. The siblings are the differences, with more modern philosophies that my generation may or may not agree. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I have bought boats and supplies from both businesses. Irwin appeals to the middle class while LL appeals to the upper class as far as sales, yet LL has lower gas prices, lower slip and storage fees. Both have excellent maintenance facilities, Bruce and Ron are excellent to deal with, but major repairs and troubleshoot goes to Dave's Motorboat Shop.

I have never had experience with PBM, although Paul and Jack has a few 'choice words' about Kevin. I am sure Kevin has a few words about their business as well. That is what competition is all about.

Business is game. Pick you battles ladies and gentlemen!

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with the upper class/ middle class assessment of the cliental. Irwin marine sells entry level boats but it also sells Meridian Yachts one of which is the largest (and probably most expensive) in MVYC. This diverse boating customer base ensures that when someone gets into boating as a young family, who can only afford "so much" boat, they will continue as customers as their financial position improves with age. Irwin treats their trailer boat customers with the same caring and appreciative attitude as they do with the big end sales. I know because I've been on both ends of that spectrum. People in the service business need to think along the lines of how the person on the other side of the counter would like to be treated. I use a saying frequently in my business "You can always tell the type of business you are dealing with when you go to them with a problem." Think about what has transpired and how you can make things better instead of denying and stonewalling the solution. A satisfied customer will tell three people...a dissatisfied one will tell three hundred.

The Breeze
Wave 'cuz I'll be wavin' back

I'm glad you have had great dealings with Irwin, perhaps it was in the past?

I had a major problem brewing with one of their sales persons, I emailed all the current owners and upper management about it. Not one even took the time to say "What's going on", or "Sorry this is going on", nor even a "Thanks for being a customer".

So now I believe those that say that the sons are not running the business the same way as their father did. Just my opinion from doing business with them in the last 3 and 4 years.

Some on their staff are great, but their upper management seemed that they couldn't have cared less. Oh, I wasn't making a small purchase from them, just sayin! ;)

I haven't had any business (yet) with Lakeport Landing, so I can't comment on them at all. But based on my personal experience with Irwin, I'm happy to tell anyone that asks that I wasn't happy with the way they handled my transaction (and several aspects of delivery). I'll give them the benefit of change, because the sales person I was dealing with is now gone, and this can only be an improvement for them. But their upper management didn't care at the time to look into what was going on, so as long as they are still in control, I don't believe their reputation is as great as they once were.

So I'll repeat your quote:
Exactly! :rolleye1:

Rich
 

Sent you a PM with some contact info

Thanks for the PM

Is it just me or is this lady highly offensive? "An error was made" which allowed the sale to be blocked? I wonder what the lease payments were for all these years? Probably a pittance? She should have bid above the appraisal price ($480,000) if she wanted the property. Her sense of entitlement is obnoxious.

Not true. If Irwin outbids Lakeport by a couple hundred thousand dollars the property tax bill will be calculated on the higher sales price regardless of what is done with the building.

Until they get reappraised the following year, or the file for it to be reevaluated.

One of the stipulations that the City of Laconia had was that the property could not be altered in a way that reduce the taxable value of the property and therefore reduce the tax due on the property. This information is in the article published by the Laconia Sun on May 28, 2015 and is in an earlier post on this thread.

Not true. If someone buys a property with a building on it and rips down the building the value is worth less and can be reassessed accordingly. Sales price and assessments don't usually match 100% anyhow. My home is proof of that, so weren't my last two. In fact, probably every one I have ever owned shows the same.

From Meredith Weekender's post above it appears that Laconia already thought of this and put in a clause to prevent them from altering the property in a way that would reduce the tax base.