The gimbles that the Phantoms use to hold the camera are a work of art! I was very impressed with how well they work to keep the camera steady!

Dan

Just a caution based on a lot of research I did about using a drone to shoot some videos for this site. My understanding is that you may use a drone for personal use if you register with the FAA ($5 fee) and stay within the restrictions. However, ANY monetization of those videos requires that you have a FAA commercial license. That includes adding ads to your Youtube video.

Since I run ads on my site I can not post drone videos that I made without being commercially licensed by the FAA. If this is wrong please correct me but it came from several good sources.

I believe that is correct.

However, if you had somebody else come shoot the video and they happened to charge you an 'editing' or 'transfer fee' it might be a way around that?

I am Soooooo jealous .......

Due to my proximity to the Laconia airport I don't dare get one

Also, loved the shadow of the Phantom3 on the grass & deck as you were landing.



.

Drone registration
 

I recently registered my drone. $5 for a 3 year registration. Here's the rules cut and pasted off of my registration form:

For U.S. citizens, permanent residents, and certain non-citizen U.S. corporations, this document constitutes a Certificate of Registration. For all others, this document represents a recognition of ownership.
For all holders, for all operations other than as a model aircraft under sec. 336 of Pub. L. 112-95, additional safety authority from FAA and economic authority from DOT may be required.
Safety guidelines for flying your unmanned aircraft:
• Fly below 400 feet
• Never fly near other aircraft
• Keep your UAS within visual line of sight
• Keep away from emergency responders
• Never fly over stadiums, sports events or groups of people
• Never fly under the influence of drugs or alcohol
• Never fly within 5 miles of an airport without first contacting air traffic control and airport authorities

This one is the rub for me !

I am about 500 FEET (or so it seems some days) from the runway


.

The last guideline should really be clarified and say major airport as that is the law. For example, there is no air traffic control nor is there even a tower or anyone for that matter to direct planes landing and taking off at the Laconia airport. Planes come and go simply by self radio alert and nothing else. You can in fact fly a drone within 5 miles of the Laconia airport legally...

Dan

Reference
 

Here a good no fly reference chart for drones...

https://www.mapbox.com/drone/no-fly/

Dan

Great reference. I was worried I may be to close to Pease, but I am in the clear :cheers:

Actually, while there is no control tower at LCI, there is Air Traffic Service provided into and from LCI by Boston Approach Control. I wouldn't want to hang my hat on no tower, therefore no problem (hopefully ;) )

the map referenced in a second post seems to be not from an official cite, and it says you can add other locations that aren't on the map.

Also, a call to Laconia Airport Authority could also provide and answer, but not sure how helpful they would be.

Actually, the FAA does not appear to distinguish between large and small airports. They require you to get permission from the airport operator or control tower before flying within 5 miles of any airport. This seems to make sense since I can't imagine it is OK to endanger aircraft flying out of a small airport but not a large airport. The passage below is from the FAAs webpage on the special model aircraft operating rules:

According to the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 as (1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use; (2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization; (3) the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization; (4) the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; (5) when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower…with prior notice of the operation; and (6) the aircraft is flown within visual line sight of the operator.

Denis D

Not technical, but . . . .
 

Actually Dennis they do. What you have quoted is a very broad overview of the actual law. The words that are missing are "where applicable" And "if the airport has a tower". If an airport does not have a tower to contact the rule is not applicable.

If the rule meant every airport there would be no place to fly a drone or any model / hobby airplane. Heck even Alton Bay would be off limits. That simply is just not the case.

Dan

Being a very long time R/C modeler having flown aerobatic competition for many years, and being a very long time full scale pilot and aircraft owner, I have dogs in both sides of this fight.

I wanted to get the definitive answer to this issue so that if I am wrong, I will have the correct information and if I am right we can correct any misinformation and help people avoid any potential problems.

As many of you may know, The Academy of Aeronautics (AMA) is the governing body in the U.S. for Model Aviation and has been intimately involved with the FAA in these matters. So I contacted my long time acquaintance, Dave Mathewson who is the Executive Director of the AMA and asked him to provide a definitive answer to this question. I have posted his reply below:

So below is the exact language in 336 relative to notification requirements when operating within 5 miles of an airport. The requirement is that you notify both the airport operator AND the tower IF the airport is a towered facility. If there is not tower you still have to notify the airport authority. We were involved in drafting the language in 336 so I know that this was the intent.

(5) when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation (model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually-agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic
control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport)).


The new reauth bill is being introduced in Congress probably in the next 2 to 3 weeks and we hope to clarify this a bit with some minor language edits.

Hope this helps.
Dave


Dave Mathewson
Executive Director
Academy of Model Aeronautics

I hope this helps clarify the issue. Happy flying:)

Denis D

I normally fly into Laconia at least once, if not several times a week. They may not have a tower, but they do have an airport operator.

I think (and hope) the FAA's intent is to require notification to fly drones within 5 miles of both towered and non-towered airports.


I also fly what the FAA considers "drones" and while phantom, myself and many others may have the maturity and judgement to keep our drones clear of actual aircraft - there are probably others who do not.

Thanks for the somewhat clarification....however just out of curiosity why doesn't the rule (5) state what you say above in your personal statement above that??...What you quoted in section (5) is exactly what I have read and as stated... "When an air traffic facility is located at the airport". Why doesn't it say if no air traffic facility is located at the airport you must somehow contact the airport manager even though there is no phone number to the airport tower or a tower for that matter no matter what! It doesn't say that and anyone who reads this would never comprehend it that way.

So can you fly a drone near Alton Bay?? It is considered an airport even if seasonal? The guideline does not distinguish between seasonal and non seasonal airports?? So what's the deal there? Confusing or what??

As far as I am concerned until section (5) is clarified there is no legal issue at least not one that would ever hold up in court, with using common sense and flying your model airplane / drone / whatever at reasonable heights for personal fun / enjoyment 4 miles away from Laconia or Alton Bay.

Sheesh, how come you can parasail in Paugus Bay, fly ultralights all within 1/2 mile from the airport but heaven forbid you fly a drone 4 miles away....ridiculous! Trust me when I tell you that local ultralight users do NOT contact Laconia airport for permission to fly. I know a couple of them and they take off and fly when they want! They are well below any height that would ever affect any plane coming or going.

Thanks for the info and please share any further clarifying guidelines.

Dan

One More Question
 

Denis D,

One other question I have...when you do call any airport tower are you simply informing them you are flying your model plane / drone or are you asking them for their permission??...

Thanks!

Dan

To reiterate my previous comment...charlie foxtrot!

A UAV flown in the wrong place at the wrong time could kill my passenger and me!

The FAA has left this too wide open. I can imagine the call...

"Hello LCI? I intend to fly my toy within five miles of the airport today."

Tell me, what in the hell happens next that mitigates the potential unsafe situation?

LCI's weather broadcast is automated, thus there is no warning there. Do we expect one of the FBO's to give us a warning about UAV traffic when we call in our position reports (which are not required anyway)? Even if a warning is given, what is the pilot going to do?

There is ZERO chance of a pilot seeing a tiny UAV and any last second maneauvering to avoid one could cause a crash.

Keeping these hazards to aviation below 400' is only half the solution. A no fly zone around ALL airports needs to be instituted.

Looking at the "No Fly map" it seems that, in addition to the DC SFRA there are restrictions around towered airports. LCI has no tower. A look at the ramp areas on a race weekend or most summer weekends will tell you that there are some decent sized jets with many passenger seats parked there. LCI is not a "little airport".

Pilots' lives matter!

If you go to the FAA website and look up HR 658-67, section 336 titled Special Rule for Model Aircraft, you will see that Dave's reply to me included the exact wording the rule contains. I don't see any ambiguity as it clearly states that you are required to notify the Airport Operator in all cases, and the Control Tower if there is one.

The rest of my responses below are my opinions based on my knowledge and understanding of the issues.

Regarding Alton Bay, it is only an FAA recognized airport when it is opened by NOTAM (Notice To Airmen) which is done by the airport operator when the ice is thick enough.

Since the rule specifies that you must NOTIFY the airport operator and does not mention seeking permission, then I would not expect permission is necessary. I don't know how much latitude the operator has in imposing some time requirement on you. I plan on calling my Airport Manager this week to find out what if any guidance they have received in this matter.

8GV - I agree with your sentiment, I do not want my life endangered by someone not following the rules. I suspect that everyone on this forum is sensible and intelligent enough to not put anyone in danger, but it is the yahoos who don't educate themselves and could care less that worry me.

Regarding how pilots are notified, that is a good question. I would expect that NOTAMs would be issued where possible. At a non-towered field, it could be recorded in the comments section on the AWOS (Automated Weather Observation System) and could be posted at the FBO.

As I said, I will be contacting my Airport Manager to see if he has answers to questions like:

Is there a minimum time between notifying the airport and when you can start flying your model?

Do you need to notify them when finished the Model activity?

How are full scale pilots notified?

Can they deny permission to operate the models?

One last comment, in the approximately 80 years we have been flying Model Aircraft, it has never been a significant problem with invasion of privacy, interference with full scale operations, operating over populated areas and other problems that have occurred since the introduction of multi rotors. If you abide by the rules of the FAA and the AMA safety rules, you won't have to worry.

Safe Flying,

Denis D

The FAA released an App for Iphones and Ipads last month called B4UFLY. I have posted a link to an article about it below. The app lets you know if it is OK to fly based on your location at the time. Great information and a good start by the FAA. The app will be available for Android devices later in the year.

http://ipadpilotnews.com/2016/01/han...Essential+Tips

Cheers,

Denis D

Be great if you could punch in KLCI and see what come up


.

It's listed on the map. Laconia Airport with GPS coordinates.

FYI, there is an Android app named "hover", it shows all the 'airports' around the lake. Almost 100% of the lake is near some sort of 'airport'.

The FAA B4UFLY app is only for IOS devices, they don't yet have an Andoid app. It's sort of a pain.

My quad (a drone) has a built in map now to show the local airports. I fly a 3D Robotics (that's the brand) Solo.

To those that think they can fly near Laconia airport with a drone due to the fact that it doesn't have a tower. Good lucK!

Laconia airport is very busy on weekends (I am right on the approach to Laconia depending on the wind direction) and know how busy it is. So much so that my boat gets black soot on it from the exhaust residue from the aircraft coming and going.

It's sort of sad that it seems that many people have registered private airstrips so close to the lake. All of these are in the FAA database. So if someone is flying anywhere withing 5 miles of these, are they legal or not? Ok, you can be an internet lawyer and say that 'only within 5 miles of a large airport), but I don't think this will get you very far if someone cries 'foul'.

Unfortunately there is a lot of hysteria about these drones right now. Many of these don't deserve this hysteria, as 'drones' (or quads as I like to call them) aren't as dangerous or being used for spying as many people think they are. I have both a drone and a photographic camera with a telephoto lens. Let me tell you, if I wanted to (and to be clear, I DO NOT want to), I could see a LOT more with a telephoto lens on my camera than I ever could with my drone.

If anyone would want to learn more about either, I'm happy to show you. Look at most of the drone photos you see on line, and you can barely make out who is being seen, but the landscape looks great. With my telephoto lens and 39 megapixel full frame camera, I can get much closer to you than you would like to know, if i wanted to (and as I said, I DO NOT).

Many of the FAA regs are written in blood.

They seem to want to get ahead of the new UAV boom.

most of the drone regs are coming from hysterical politicians that don't understand what they are doing. They almost created new laws in NH that would have shut down almost every Radio Control hobby flying field in the state. That would have been a shame!

For those that want to see how many 'airports' are close to the lake, check out this link:

https://app.airmap.io/#

In the search enter in KLCI (for Laconia airport) and scroll down to select the Laconia airport and then click the menu on the upper right hand and then also check the box on the right that says "Recreational 5 mile radius". You will see that most of the Lake is within 5 miles of some sort of airport. This airmap is the one used by DJI and 3DR (as well as the Hover app that I mentioned in a post above) to show where a recreational drone can and can't fly without notifying the airport operator, etc.

Oh sorry, I just noticed, this is hijacking a nice thread about photo's from a quad (drone). Sorry to add to the hysteria.

Really, people should not be frightened by these hobby drones. If you would like to learn more, I'd be happy to come by and show you how one works first hand.

Inconsistent Circles...
 

As indicated, the link shows most of the lake is covered by restrictions.

The one affecting Wolfeboro seems to be centered at Wolfeboro's former Airpark on Wolfeboro Neck, which still retains a heliport. That same Wolfeboro circle does not include Huggins Hospital, which has occasional helicopter DHART flights. :confused:

.

When I look at it, Huggins is in the circle...
 

I see the circle covering the Clark Rd area where Huggins is located. When I zoom in, the circle breaks up and there is no color in that area, as the circle seems to break up into "chunks". I zoom back out and the area is in the circle. At least to my aged, cataract-infested, glycomic eyes.;):laugh:

Zooming in too far seems to break the interface on the software. So zoom out and check out your location, if you can see a circle when you select "Recreational - 5 Mile Radius" then you are within something that is an airport. Zooming in doesn't alleviate you from being within 5 miles of the airport, it just makes it more difficult to see the radius of the no fly area.

In my home area (away from the lake) there are a lot of small heliports and other things, a lot of them are private, hospitals, etc.

Note, there also is a checkbox for "Show private airports". Check this ON for more information!

The interesting thing is that if you turn ON to show both "Recreational" use and also turn it ON so it will show "Private" airports, then zoom out enough, there barely is free space to fly here in New England. It looks like you need to be in northern Maine or perhaps some mountain tops in NH, ME, or VT.

Now, scroll down a bit more and turn on "Prohibited Special Use" and "Restricted Special Use" and "National Parks" and "NOAA Marine protected areas, oh, don't forget TFRs!!! (Temporary Flight Restrictions that may pop up from day to day), then scroll further down, and select "hospitals, Schools, Heliports, Power Plants and Private Properties (there is a site where homeowners can list their property as a 'no fly zone'); and good luck finding a place that is clear to fly your toy! ;)

Really, there is too much hysteria about these things, but the each aircraft operator (full scale, model, quad, kite flyers, etc.) need to be aware of other aircraft in the area at all times. Wouldn't that make more sense than to say you can't fly your drone in your backyard at the lake (or wherever your home is) because someone registered a private airstrip, but they only use it 4 times a year, during the summer, when the weather is perfect.

Again, I think we've hijacked the original thread's intent to share his P3 photos.

You can click on any circle and it will give you the details of what that restriction is about. If the 'airport' has a phone number available, then it is included. As an example if you click on the point of the few circles that intersect in the Broads it lists:

"Airports (Recreational Rules)
Laconia Muni 603-524-5003
Loons Nest
Winter Harbor"

What about people who fly kites in these areas...they can easily go just as high as a drone. What about ultralights?? These guys don't call the tower when they fly... Heck no one complains and they allow parasailing within 1/2 mile from the airport on Paugus bay and there's a human being hanging off a giant kite being pulled by a boat, but that's OK??!!

According to the FAA there were aproximately 11,000 bird / airplane strikes in 2013. http://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_.../wildlife/faq/ ..anyone want to guess how many drone strikes there were?? Here an interesting Newsweek article that puts some perspective on it... http://www.newsweek.com/greater-thre...-drones-362708

I agree too much hysteria and more feel good legislation being considered and passed when there is far worse things to be worried about out there!

Dan

Sorry, I keep reading earlier in this thread and want to answer...

someone said they would not be happy with a 'drone' flying over their property. I think this is caused by a lot of the unfounded hysteria about them, as most do not fully know what they are talking about.

Here's a good link to show what I was talking about, that a telephoto lens on a good camera is much more 'dangerous' (if it wanted to be) than any drone could ever be:

(NOTE: Don't look at the cover photo on the article, an average drone that most of us can afford and the type we are discussing in this thread can't carry a camera and lens this big!!! The cover photo was only to catch your visual attention)

http://petapixel.com/2015/08/21/are-...creep-you-out/

Could a drone fly lower over your property? Of course it could, but you would be VERY aware of it, they sound like 10,000 swarming bees, there is no way you would not notice it. If you can't hear it, then it's probably not close enough to worry about.

Fell free to be paranoid about these flying toys.... but 99.99999999% of the people flying them are nice, follow the rules, and have no interest in trying to 'peek' into your private life. The next time you see someone flying one, walk up and ask the person some questions about it. I'm sure they would love to tell you all about it (But please wait until they land to start asking questions).

I once had someone tell me that they felt their privacy was being violated while I was flying my drone over a PUBLIC park... *scratches head*.

I can't wait for all this hysteria to die down so I can enjoy my hobby without having to worry all the time. It's not like these are going away any time soon. They're only getting more popular. Get used to seeing them around!

Man does this sound familiar! :rolleye2:

Are we talking about LAWS enacted by legislative bodies or REGS promulgated by administrative agencies?

I agree with you, more than you can imagine! Most of these things do happen, and no one has said that they can't fly within 5 miles of an airport, why?

Flying at a local model aircraft flying club, I've had a mid-air collision with my model aircraft and another model aircraft that was larger and heavier than a drone. My larger model aircraft, that is made out of soft, light balsa wood and some bits of plastic, just kept flying and I landed it. Yes, there was a small chunk taken out of it, and it definitely got 'hit', but I was able to land it with no problems, almost like nothing had happened. So now, that same 'drone' hits a full scale aircraft made out of aluminum, and it's strong enough to carry humans, and survive rough air, rough landings, bird strikes, etc. and which aircraft do think will 'win' in this mid-air collision? My bet is that the drone will be in pieces, and maybe, possibly they will be looking for a scratch or possibly a small dent on that full scale aircraft (maybe).

Could it be possible that there could be a worse outcome? Yes, of course! Am I saying that all drones are no threat to human carrying aircraft? NO!! But there is just too much hysteria about it!! Please stop these stories. It's just the national news trying to sensationalize these stories for ratings.

To answer your question: Very very few mid-air collisions occur with model aircraft, but they do sometimes happen once in a blue moon, because at a model aircraft club, there are often several of these aircraft flying at the same time, in the same very limited airspace. So sooner or later it can happen.

My only concern is the ease of drones doing surveillance, either by mistake or on purpose. I have never heard of cams being mounted on kites and being directed to a specific location. Being the subject of past stalking, this figures in my thoughts.

I see the beauty of the videos posted here, and I envy the thought of owning one to remotely survey other property I own, OTOH, the thought of one buzzing over my personal space to monitor my life, also is a reality in my case.

Just to answer your question, taking photos from the air, has been going on long before drones were around.

I've been doing it for 30 years from RC Aircraft. I have mounted video cameras, still cameras, video downlinks, etc. all from my aircraft.

Other's have been doing it from kites, poles (yes long poles), balloons, etc.

It's just that now the news has made a big deal about it, and of course, drones are easier to fly now, than RC aircraft in the past ever were.

Now you can get a very cheap drone for a few hundred dollars, and the thing will almost fly itself, and it has a camera included, all designed to easily take photos or videos.

In the past, it may not have cost much more money, but you had to spend a lot of time to learn how to fly it before you could ever hope to be able to successfully take photos, etc.

But to the surveillance comment, again I refer you to the previous link about the quality of what they see from the air:
http://petapixel.com/2015/08/21/are-...creep-you-out/
Or look at the photos from the first post in this thread, unless the drone is very very low, you can barely make out that there is as human in many of the photos. You certainly can't see much of any concern, or any personal details. It's not much different than worrying about an airplane flying by and someone looking out the window.

Apparently The Boston Globe has picked up on your video. Congrats! (although the stock photo of another years Alton runway is a bit misleading)

http://www.boston.com/news/2016/02/2...ml?p1=story_hp

AOPA info sheet
 

The Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association just published a pretty comprehensive fact sheet about flying drones near airports and other venues, lots of good info. Here is the link:

http://www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/...hip/Drones/UAS

Cheers,

Denis D