I hope you find something but at this point in the summer I would be patient. Maybe things will slow down when the cold weather hits and you won't have to compete with the summer shoppers.

Please check what I write with a septic expert, this stuff is really arcane:

Your septic "is what it is"--if your lot is too small for a 4 BR septic, a diligent buyer will uncover your problem regardless of the system itself. This was the case for me--the system was sound, but the lot was too small for a 4 BR septic to be designated for 4 BR. The required lot size is subject to multiple constraints that are too complex for an amateur

So I would just go with the best septic and the best well that I could, without regard for designation.

I have a 2br septic but I have 4br's in the house. It's only my wife and I unless we have family or friends up so the septic doesn't really get overly taxed. But when I go to sell it it has to be listed and valued as a 2 bedroom home, which I'm fine with.

About 7-8 years ago our septic crapped out (Ha Ha!)! During replacement (not cheap) we were told it was too small for the three bedroom house (35 years old- didn't someone mention somewhere about contractors cutting corners?). I don't expect we'll sell anytime soon, but I hear what you're saying.

OK- next size up!

Like others, it's just the two of us full-time. Reading other threads on this forum made us change from three year cleaning to five year cleaning.

I admit, waiting for Spring (the first five-year clean) started to make me a bit nervous.

Butt- All's well!

I just did mine a few years ago because I bought the place 6 years ago and there was no info on when it was last done. I bought it with no home inspection because I made an offer at a steep discount so I took the risk, a big risk.
The cleaning and inspection was fine but every 5 years is what I will do from here on in. My system is also 35 years old. If I ever decide to sell I will deal with the septic testing at that time but I've had no issues so far.
What I was told is it's not a bedroom unless it has a closet, not sure if that's legally true.
When I bought the place the room on the first floor was called an office because it had no closet. Then I finished the attic over the garage, into what I call a bunk room, which also has no closet.

That’s exactly what happened. This is a similar size lot.

The wording is, that if your septic fails, the state *might* only grant a 2 bedroom rated septic. But chances are if it had a reasonable 3-4 bedroom septic they would allow replacing it.

As mentioned above, lots of waivers are granted. Like for like systems granted etc. all the time.

It all gets fuzzy too that you might even be allowed to (re)build a 3 bedroom with a 2 bedroom septic. Or just build a 2 bedroom with a den that has closets and a bathroom. And never have an issue.

My biggest concern is resale. Because it has this ugly comment of only 125 gal/day limit which equates to a 1 bedroom.

It makes no sense to me why the septic was rated down to 125 because a of a properly installed (town approved and sleeved) well. Well company basically said “you should be good, we do things right”. So your drill guy will say you are fine.

We might be overreacting on these technical labels.

I totally agree with this.

Your lot size and how much it covered has a lot to do with the gallon / day rating. But the assessment specifically calls out the new well as being the reason why they rated it as 1/3 the capacity it was rated for.

I think what they might be doing is subtracting the area occupied by the well from the acreage to calculate how much septic flow the property can support. Regardless of where the well is legally located.

Independent of locations and set backs.

I’m curious how large a lot has to be to support:

A well (with entire 75ft radius) within property boundaries.
A home (say 40x40ft foot print)
A 2 car garage
A deck/screen porch
A driveway (maybe)
A walk way (maybe)
A 3-4 bedroom septic

I bet it comes to .75 acres or more.

Anything below 0.50 acres will probably need exceptions granted.

Even though not every square inch of a property can be used for some things I think it all still counts on total acreage. Maybe only any wetland might also be subtracted.

When we built on Winnipesaukee in 2012, we were able to construct a 2,600 finished square foot two story home with a full unfinished basement on a lot of .41 acres in size with a new well and a new three bedroom septic system with an attached 2 car garage, with decks, glassed and screen in porch, paved driveway and some walkways. Because we did not want a "Box", the footprint of house is irregular with lots of angles. No variances, exceptions or waivers, but our well 75 foot radius does extend onto the abutting property and we had to sign and have recorded an acknowledgement of that fact. Our engineer, architect, septic designer and well person were comfortable with the well radius issue. Given the topography of the abutting lot, it is unlikely in the extreme that the abutter could or would put a septic within that portion of the well radius extending onto that lot. I will say that it was a somewhat tight fit with the side setbacks, such that our engineer was out three times to measure and locate the foundation (excavation, footings and frost walls) so there were no surprises later on and then an as built. Well location came down to the practical issue of where the drilling rig could reasonably get to.

You can build a pretty good sized house on a half acre. You might have to move the well etc. but it can be done as long as the soil supports a septic system. You need to get somebody who really knows what they are doing to figure it out for you. Unless it is grandfathered you have to be 50ft. from the lake and need to leave part of the land untouched. In any event it can be done, but bottom line is you need a good professional to get the most out of the lot.

At one point we bought a half acre lot that had an existing 4 bedroom septic. If we remodeled the (two) little houses we didn't need a new septic but we wanted to put a new septic in because it was old and by doing so we were reduced to 2. I'm not sure why but it wasn't a big deal to us. But I do know people who have 3 on a half acre.

The lot in question is only 0.36 Acres. And the abutters are similar size.

I’ve seen buyers run from septic assessment that wasn’t as bad.

Radon Needed?
 

Destroy the well and go back to lake water?

That doesn’t work well for 4 season use.
And that would severely lower its value to me or future owners.

Property was over $1.2m

Bottom line is that size lot is over constrained wether you have a well on it or not. You either compromise on using lake water or limited official septic capacity. I thought it was just enough that you wouldn’t need any special waivers or grants to make it what we want or future owners might want (staying within grand fathered footprints and capacities). But it’s more impaired than I thought for the money.

My guess is we could do what we wanted and everything would be granted. And it would hold its value and what we put into it. But if we decided to keep it as is use it for 5-10 years and then sell. It might not increase in value as much as a home without these constraints. And it’s not guaranteed we could do what we wanted either. It’s to risky.

We bought in 2003 for $685k and sold for $1.025m in 2020. It could never have a garage and has a similar constrained septic. I thought it was all due to setbacks from the water. Ours was a long strip along the water. But I’m learning it’s about acreage too. I didn’t realize a Well uses up acreage.

I don’t want to make that mistake again. I already know I’m probably buying at a peak (I’m ok with that). But I want to get something that will grow at a decent rate when the market does recover after the bubble bursts.

I don’t regret buying the place in 2003. Not trying to make a killing either. I just don’t want to be behind the curve again.

You know, I agree with you. Why go through the hassle and fights with the town and state? Just find something with a bigger lot. It's not like you have to buy that one.

Agreed. That's a lot of money to spend to jump through hoops AND take the risk.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

...... cheap domestic water!
 

For about $1000 you can get a Pyrotenax 125' x 1 1/4" heated black poly cpvc water line, made in Ontario, with an internal heat wire, and thermostat control that runs on 220-volts and uses 1888-watts for heating the water line from the lake, all year 'round, including the winter months. You can tell when the inside of the line at the embankment is getting slushy with ice inside because the needle in the pressure guage, 30-50 psi, will get very shaky as it tries to draw water up through the slush clogged line so you know it's time to turn up the heat by a tiny turn.

It comes in a large cardboard box and the only item not included is the foot valve.

Installation is just inches below the surface of the ground and threading it through a 2" pvc pipe under the rocky embankment, so it's a do-it-yourself type of an install.

For a high quality, low priced, shallow well pump, 1/2-hp, 30-gal tank and pressure switch, go to www.harborfreight.com

Drawing water from a drilled well is no guarantee it will be quality drinking water, and you can get quality Laconia town water for 25-cents/gal from the machine at the Gilford Hannaford. Like, how much faucet water do you actually drink or use for cooking, anyway?

Yes, it seems like a money pit. I would run very fast from this one, especially at $1.2 million for a seasonal camp.

Something that I also find very curious is that you mention there is not even one closet in the entire house . It almost seems to me like they did it on purpose because of the septic issue.

Meanwhile, in New York City...
 

New York, NY...

The folks nearest me* go (in west-to-east order) CT, NH, CT, CA, FL*, NY, VA, MA, NY...

An outlier--a few houses over--lives year-round on this desolate island (that isn't really an island). ;)

Yesterday, via postcard, a realtor really-really-really wants to buy my place.

(Postmarked=Arizona). :rolleye2:

Economics on Squam are skewed in a couple of ways. First, prices are dramatically higher than on Winni (I know, seems impossible). So I was not surprised at the $1.2MM camp. Second, even at those higher prices, there is almost never anything for sale. If you google squam real estate at any particular point in time, you're likely to see fewer than 5 for sale on the entire lake--one in the $1-2MM range, one in the $3-5MM range, one above that. So even if you can afford it, and you find a home in your price range, there is only one of them, so you are going to be living with a serious drawback or two.

When we were in the market 5-6 years ago, just for example--There was the house I described before with 2.5 beds of septic for $1.3MM, and there was a $1.7MM teardown on land that was good but not great.

A camp just came on today in Meredith 1.25 acres 200 ft WF 965K.


Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Maybe send the link?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

2 side by camps for sale in Meredith
 

The 2 adjoining camps have been in the family for 50 years, one priced in the $800s and the other in the 900s. Taxes on each over $10k. I bet they’ll both be under contract shortly despite their limitations. Crazy market!
#43 and #45 Happy Homes Rd., Meredith

That’s more like a shed with beds.

Ya, but it's a happy shed.😂

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

In my opinion, these are way overpriced. But, I agree, that in this market, it is very possible that the sellers will get lucky and make a killing.

How can you not be happy with a name like Happy Homes Rd?😂

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Probably, a speculative home builder will purchase the waterfront lot or lots on Happy Home Rd via a construction loan, tear down the old cabin, build a new, large, modern house, and then list it up for sale.

This is what's been happening lately in this area of Meredith neck.

Have you seen the new house under construction at the cottage formerly named "gypsy camp", just before the Cattle Landing parking lot. Is like very large, new home. Do not know if it is a speculative or an owner build ....... but it certainly blocks out what used to be a great view from the road ..... is sooooo big plus has a three car garage within the house, as well.

Geeze... those prices are criminal...that said, I wish I owned them! :D

They did it to squeeze more space out for rental. Tenants tend not to use them. They rented it since they remodeled it. As far as anyone knew there was no septic issue until they hit the assessment back. And for some people there is no septic issue.

That’s all fine and good. If you don’t mind knocking off $300k of value.

The property is fine as it is. No reason to not use the well. They are not gonna order that it be shutdown. It’s just if the septic does fail they might not grant a 3 bedroom size replacement. But they might grant a like for like system. And they might limit the number number of bedrooms/bathrooms more harshly than if it didn’t have this new label if someone wanted to rebuild. It does not change what’s there. But could handicap what could be done in the future.

It was just to many maybes and probably’s in the future for the price.

Just Wait...
 

Wolfeboro sends a regular "disclaimer" with its billings: there, you can read where Wolfeboro fails to meet drinking water standards.

Harbor Freight shallow water pumps are marginal. The three I've bought for my Florida place have all "short-cycled", then quit altogether when not used for a few months. If you spend extra for their so-called "warranty", be sure to read this owner's experience:
https://www.complaintsboard.com/harb...rranty-c910704

A pleasant and modern chalet-style cottage nestled in the woods 500-feet from me (on Winter Harbor) was torn down this week. It was built 20 years after mine! :eek:

Cathedral pines were "harvested". Defective pines were left along the shoreline--certain to be removed in the near future.

This creeping "gentrification" will affect Lake Winnipesaukee in many ways; eventually, there will be a lush green lawn with what is effectively a B&B maneuvered to every treeless lot. :(

Squam Lake's septic considerations may save that lake from the overdevelopment that winterized retirement homes will bring.

I can't help but wonder what one septic in one house does to the lake compared to hundreds of boats anchoring in the lake on a given day.

I have a Jacuzzi 1/2-hp shallow well pump now for ten years or so, and it is magnifico ..... best pump ever!

Drawing water from the lake as opposed to a drilled well will maybe be a red flag that makes it impossible for a buyer to get a mortgage on your property?

Meanwhile, the City of Laconia has been drawing its' water out of Paugus Bay for over a hundred years, and the Town of Meredith draws its' water from Lake Waukewan, both are natural bodies of lake water as opposed to a drilled well going hundred's of feet into the ground.

These are state rules and our home on Newfound had the exact same issue.

Guidelines today are helping improve all the lakes and water quality.

The biggest issues with water quality were caused from many decades ago, not from boats, septics or homes. But from farms (using DDT) and oiling the roads (with PCBs). But build up of homes and roads near the shores are contributing to allowing these contamination to enter the lakes through runoff. Removing the buffers.

One other issue today is every time you drop anchor and pull it up, you stir up PCB’s settled in the bottom.

mswlogo's response is spot on. The other key thing to remember is that the concern is the total load of contaminants flowing into the lake. As population on the lake increases, we need to address all these things to make sure we don't destroy our already threatened water quality. So it's not one septic in one house or one boat--it's all the septics that need to be regulated, and all the boaters that should not be using the lake as a toilet.

It is. It's location, location, location. The taxes reflect the value of the land. Both around an acre with reasonable access (not to steep) to clear water.

Put a modest 3 Bedroom home on either for ($400k?) and they would be worth $1.6m+ each, easy (but you'll have the tax bill to go along with it, probably $20K+/yr). Look at the prices of the neighbors.

We found another place.

180 degrees different than Squam

My wife really wanted to be back on NewFound lake.

It’s almost 2 acres
~300 ft of water frontage (Sandy, gradual and crystal clear)
3 moorings
1 dock room for two boats
Huge house built in 2000
3 cottages (1 year round with full foundation) and all updated in 2000-ish
All well maintained.
It does not get a mountain Sunset but will get sun on the beach until about 30 minutes before Sunset I think through mid September. That’s a lot more than we had before. Should get a nice sun rise.
Taxes are bit high

All 4 have been being rented for a few years bringing in $58k/year

Only catch is Road is between cottages/house and water front.

Even though it was well maintained there is tons of room for improvements.
Landscaping and painting.

Cottages are on their own state approved septic and the house is on its own state approved septic. Both on public water. Septic capacity is 4000 gal/day (squam was 125)

Jacuzzi: Second Thumbs Up...
 

My Jacuzzi pump has been flawless for 24 years! (Until yesterday: it's normal good pressure simply runs down, with no leaks detected).

Grammar alert on above: hold off on ALL apostrophe use, and stay mostly correct.

Back to Newfound Lake?
 

Property investment-wise, we've done well. We bought here for long-held sentimental reasons (Melvin grandparents), and wouldn't think of selling--or trying to make a business out of it. Each to his own... :o

Rentals aren't the panacea to paying, what?, $35,000 in property taxes. :eek: Deductions aren't what they were in 2015.

Considering the roadway, is it a quiet dead-end road? Dirt roads can be dusty--a consideration if you're downwind from the prevailing breeze. Ask around. My last realtor was a serious fisherman, and got the prevailing winds question correct. Construction can tear up a roadway for three years for each built "mansion".

Sunrises here are commendable, if you're up to see them! :laugh:

I wouldn’t know about discounts. I’ve never been a landlord and possibly never will. I guess you have. I’ve never treated it as a business or investment. Biggest issue with renting is liability and insurance in my book. Especially around water.

Road is paved. I know about dust. Been on this lake for 34 years. My wife has been on it since she was born, as well as her mother since she was born.

I might sell off half the property with the big house and replace the cottages with a custom home. Not sure what we will do, lots of options.

Gotta pay the taxes whether I rent or not. And they are $18k. ~$2k more than I was paying.

This property just so happens to be renting and have lots of options.