Where are the "DEBUNKERS" when we really need them? :rolleye1::rolleye1::rolleye1:

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758,186 Deaths in U.S.
 

And very possibly many more that never were recorded, or haven't become YET.

Right, doctors don't ask. This most recent analysis was based on geography--comparing areas that are Red vs Blue in terms of voting. Like numerous other analyses, they showed Republicans with lower vaccination rates and higher impacts from COVID. All of this is easily Googled.

I'm not sure why this would be a surprise to anyone. Even though we debate the costs vs benefits of vaccines, I'm pretty sure we all believe that Republicans are vaccinated at lower rates, and that we all believe that the vaccines have at least some level of effectiveness. If you believe that a group of people with fewer vaccinations will be less protected than a group with more vaccinations, then obviously Republicans are going to have more negative impacts from COVID.

But it is still really a guess.
Not conclusive.

759,838 Deaths in U.S.
 

NO guessing for me.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

TODAY, is NOT over Yet
 

New U. S. Death count by Covid-19 Pandemic.
SO sad.

760,979

Deaths in U.S.

It would still be guessing.
Even if an area had 80 percent of voters in one party, we could not determine those voters are the ones dying. We could not even with precision determine the the ratio was equivalent to the voting pattern.

You seem to be insisting on analytical perfection where none is possible, and simultaneously ignoring a huge amount of data that all point in the same direction. Here's a similar article with more cuts at at it. The most powerful things are that it also shows at the county level, it's ramping up over time, and it's entirely consistent with behavior and politics we all acknowledge. In this one, even Breitbart is recognizing the trend

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/b...cinations.html

http://www.wmur.com/article/new-hamp...-2021-38212073 ..... 'Fixed Covid-19 Vaccination Sites Returning to New Hampshire' ..... including a site somewhere in Plymouth, NH although it does not say where.

You know that Plymouth NH already has the CVS-Pharmacy which has been a vaccination site since the vaccinations began last March or February so if you wish to get vaccinated the CVS is right there. I've been in there for all three of my vaccinations and each time there was no waiting, and I was like the only person getting vaccinated. It made me feel like a vaccination rock & roll, super-star celebrity .... rock-on! .... :banana: .... HOO-YAH! .... and jab me one, again!

Say-hey ...... can barely wait up for the fourth trip back to CVS and my heavy paper vaccination record card does, in fact, have a fourth unused information line for recording a fourth vaccination so's whoever designed these vaccination cards at the CDC knew what they were doing.

Germany is experiencing an intense 4th wave of infections and deaths---yesterday saw the highest numbers since the beginning of the pandemic! Germans are going back to their nightmare of 2020. Reason: vaccination resistance in all three of the German-speaking countries (Germany, Austria, Switzerland), associated with right-wing politics.

https://www.ft.com/content/f04ac67b-...3-817cc0483df5

While I feel bad for those victims and their families, this seems to be a case of survival of the fittest. People who are intelligent enough to seek scientific information about the virus and take all available means to avoid it are the ones who are going to survive. Those who cling to falsehoods about the virus, refuse vaccination for political or other ideological or religious reasons, don't wear masks, and don't practice social distancing are the ones who are going to die at this point.

"Survival of the fittest" involves adaptation to current conditions, which includes availability of scientific knowledge, vaccinations, and proven protective strategies. If you're stuck in nonadaptive thinking, you're not going to make it. Problem: your thinking doesn't change, but the world does change. (Same problem with the climate crisis.)

This is about simple cause and effect. You protect yourself, you live. You don't protect yourself, you die. That's a universal principle that doesn't care what your political or religious beliefs are.

Ultimately it comes down to whether people WANT to live or not. If you want to live, you protect yourself.

Sir, sometimes I think you're crazy. No, I USUALLY think you're crazy. Then suddenly you say something that makes sense and I think, "What?? I thought he was nuts." So which is it? I have to know before I take my snowblower to that guy you recommended.

Guess Work?
 

The Only, https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...inals-rcna5124

Not Over Yet.
 

Be Safe; https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-isnt-rcna4976

Truth Works: https://www.nbcnews.com/data-graphic...-re-w-rcna4895

762,705

Deaths in U.S.

Then it is simply a guess.
I did not get a vaccine because how I voted. I got one because the analysis was that the risk of the vaccine was far less than the risk of covid, and the financial impact was zero versus possible disaster.

I think the analysis is largely worthless. It seems that death is more likely to occur when a rise in infection occurs, and that is most likely to happen people are cattled together.

Hogwash.

"Red" states are red because the majority of the residents share similar philosophies, among them the principals of freedom, government distrust/limits, and a hesitance to choose science over religion/traditional beliefs—all predictors of behavior revolving around Covid masking, vaccination, and physical distancing.

There's absolutely nothing surprising, then, that people in red states have a higher likelihood of getting harmed/dying from Covid...for the short term.

There is evidence, that follows the same principals as above, to show that natural immunity is increasing and the gap between red and blue will decrease to whatever the difference is between antibody and vaccine protection.

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The excitement of shopping at the Walmart in Plymouth has recently been enhanced with loud speaker announcements that welcome their customers to get Covid vaccinations at the Walmart Pharmacy.

Save money. Live better. Shop at Walmart and NOW get vaccinated at the Walmart in Plymouth, NH. .... :banana: ..... HOO-YAH!

.............

"I will not reveal my status whether I have been vaccinated or not." ...... Novak Djokovic , #1 tennis player and worth about 220-million dollars, talking to a Serbian newspaper interview ..... Oct 20, 2021

Something tells me he really has been vaccinated but does not want to offend those in Serbia who chose not to be vaccinated.


.............

No Worries! just wait by Customer Service and they call the Store Greeter over to give you the jab.

What could possibly go wrong?

But not everyone in a ''red'' State is Republican.

Take the recent local elections for example.
Laconia has an all Republican delegation to the Legislature... local chosen.
But Dawn Johnson, one of those legislators, was soundly beaten by Andrew Hosmer.
In most States and regions, the parties are winning by narrow margins. So ''red'' or ''blue'' sometimes represents on very small number of voters compared to the total... and that does not even take into account the rather large number of qualified voters that do not vote.

Without firm statistics, we are just guessing. The next wave could hit New England very hard... and New England... except for one Senate seat is ''blue''.

We also know that cities tend to be more Democrat supportive than rural areas... we see that in every election.

So even though more people in the cities might be vaccinated, if they herd together they increase the chances of breakthroughs. Where a very rural person might never come into contact with the virus.

Very hard to paint a whole population with a brush without definitive data.

Help US
 

Ouch; https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-ne...detox-rcna4859

Oh deer. This news is also 3 months ago.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/04/covid-...opulation/amp/

A truly unbelievable low in stupidity and ignorance. It’s harmless but that’s really beside the point.

Hi Newbiesaukee, this is why we are still in the Covid-19 Pandemic. NO guessing!

NOT the world most of us were brought Up in.
Stay well, my friend.
Love,
Terry

Lol “climate crisis”


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Like I said, survival of the fittest. I was referring to survival of the mentally fittest---people who are intelligent enough to believe the absolutely clear evidence that we are in a climate crisis. Also applies to whether an entire species (e.g. humans) is socially fit enough to take corrective action against a crisis. If the power of mentally and morally unfit people like you outweighs the power of people like me, we're finished as a species. At the very least, the remainder of your years on earth (unless you're over 90) are likely to be increasingly unpleasant. At some point you will find yourself living underground to escape the heat on the surface and you will still be saying, "LOL. 'Climate crisis.'"

Trfour, I understand what you're saying about the world we were brought up in and obviously you're right. But in the world we were brought up in, the seeds of today's crises had already been planted. We just didn't realize it at the time. For baby boomers, everything seemed wonderful in the 1950s postwar economic boom. Our parents had jobs and could afford to own a house. People seemed to act rationally. There was far less antisocial behavior. Neighbors didn't come to blows about politics. We had respect for one another. Government mandates were reasonable and we followed them willingly.

What we didn't realize at the time:

1. The economic boom that made our lives so much better depended on overexploition of the earth's resources that would lead to pollution, deforestation, carbon in the atmostphere, global warming, etc.
2. Economic progress created a new class of super wealthy people at the expense of the other classes. That division would eventually mean that things like home ownership would one day be out of reach for many.
3. We had in no way solved the racial injustice that this country was founded on, that would later lead to almost irreparable divisions.
4. We were failing to train children and adolescents to live in a society with others. We got rid of religion in schools but didn't replace it with any other kind training in self-control and moral conduct.
5. We were not doing anything to correct the U.S.'s reliance on war as our main foreign policy strategy.

The perception that things were safe and good in the 1950s held true only if you belonged to specific groups who had access to the benefits of the economic boom and democracy. Millions of people did not and they would soon start raising their voices.

All of those unaddressed conditions were intensifying in the 1950s and they led up to the stunning crises of 2020: refusal to adopt rational behaviors during the Covid crisis, the economic crisis, race riots, the unfathomable near-collapse of our democracy, lawlessness and the climate crisis. Had we been studying events since the 1950s and projecting their logical outcomes, we might not have been so surprised. What is the logical outcome of the fact that today, 60% of the world's population (41% in the U.S.) is unvaccinated and the virus has ways of outsmarting us?

The explanation for this state of affairs is simple: our systems of government, the economy, education, and social organization as designed and practiced are insufficient to bring about the things we say we want (life, liberty, happiness, prosperity etc.), but we are either unwilling or unable to envision and enact systems that would work better for us. We cling to things we hold sacred even when 250 years of history reveals them to be inadequate. The world changes as a result of our actions in it, but we fail to evolve in our thinking and ways of being. That's irrational, and humans at bottom are not programmed for the complexities of modern rationality.

#2 and #4 are BS.
Real life experience tells us that.

People are seeking larger and more expensive homes than in the 1950's... even with smaller families; and more money is spent on ''toys'' leaving less money and time for the basics like a small, well built, and cared for home.

Religion can still be found in religiously-based private schools, and the ''citizens'' that they are turning out are no better than what the non-religious public schools are.

These are great points, but I think you may have missed the last link I posted--it shows that the variance extends to the county level (so the urban vs rural point is addressed) and that "redder" areas are harder hit than less red areas (so the small margin point is addressed). Your point about the cities is also on target, but of course that would tend to increase infections among Democrats (so the trends towrd more Republican infections are even more significant)

Here's my real-life experience about #2, regarding the possibility of home ownership. In 1957 my father earned about $6000 a year as an electrician and he bought a house costing $11,000, meaning less than twice his yearly salary. I bought my current house in 1994. Today I would never be able to afford to buy my current house (a very modest house built in the 1920s), because it would cost at least 6 times my annual salary---an example of loss of prosperity between generations over the last 60 years. My father retired with an adequate pension. Today 60% of Americans have NO pension.

You put your finger on the problem: there are no "small, well built, and cared for homes" on the market due to the greed of home builders, especially here in the Lake's Region, and society's failure to understand that adequate housing is a public need, not a privilege of the wealthy.

Investopedia: "The middle class is shrinking due to an increase in population at the extreme bottom and top of the economic spectrum." This is a well-studied fact.

Regarding #4, training children and adolescents to live in a society with others, I didn't mean that we should bring religion back into schools or that religion could solve our social problems. I meant that schools are overly focused on knowledge and not focused at all on social skills. Knowledge doesn't help when you're turning out angry, selfish kids with no self-control who feel no obligation to anyone but themselves. At bottom, refusing to get vaccinated, wear a mask, and practice social distancing are antisocial actions symptomatic of a society that cares little about its own members.

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haha It’s the weather. Injecting “crisis” and “justice” after nouns don’t make them dire, except among the gullible elitists. I accept that you’re just a much more moral person than I, or perhaps just educated beyond your intelligence. I wonder if you hear what you sound like when you write some of the things you write. I feel bad that you’re ashamed of your own “species.”
Your sense of your own virtue is inflated, but at least you’re a source of amusement, if not bemusement.

Here’s hoping that we are all living underground before the world ends in, is it ten years now?


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