FYI....Not all vocal opponents to HB162 are "off-shore"/GFBL owners.

...from the no-speed limits side!
 

Unlike newspaper letters and a face-to-face conversation, anonymous posters on internet forums tend be be quite frank in voicing their opinions.


post #77

"Roads like 93 and 95 should be speed limit free."

post #79

"...as I have to blow by you at 150 feet distance at 100mph, just don't complain it is dangerous."

Thankyou both for your opinions and for commenting frankly.

Hopefully, your posts will be read by some of the 24 NH State Senators who are undecided and who could support a 45-25 speed limit for just Lake Winnipesaukee.

I've been on Lake Winnipesaukee since 1992, paying property taxes and supporting many local business', and I enjoy using an 18' aluminum outboard boat. Six gallons of gas lasts all day, it's quiet and it gets up on plane at about 18mph.

As I have said before, going 45mph in a boat is hardly a slow speed. It is, in fact, a very fast speed!

You are exactly correct. The irresponsible FEW should be held accountable for thier actions. The rest of us responsible boaters do NOT need to be held accountable for the actions of the irresponsible few. Period.

I knew what you meant. My post was a bit "tongue in cheek". I also just assumed you hated them, my aplogies for that.

You may think the rules are there to protect the general public from the irresponsible few, but the irresponsible, by definition, don't really care about rules. So what really happens is that the law-abiding, responsible folks are punished with absurd laws aimed at the very people who have a history of ignoring laws.

I am not in favor of irresponsible boating, I just don't think an absurdly low speed limit is warranted, yet. Someday, I may feel differently, but I boat on Winnipesaukee all the time, at a typical speed of 30-35 MPH and just fail to see any problems caused by speed. The biggest problems I see are dumb boaters in boats that probably won't even reach 45 MPH.

My comment on no speed limits was for divided, limited access highways, not school zones or downtown Wolfeboro. That said, back roads should have a limit of 60 MPH except where they pass through densely popluated areas where the limit should be 35 or 30, just like England or Ireland. And like pretty much like the rest of the world, every road outside of densely populated areas should have a dashed center line everywhere so that overtaking is legal everywhere, even if it's not smart. Oh, one other thing I'd like, while I'm dreaming: motorcycles should be able to lane split legally in traffic.

Hmmm, Dave R. would like to ride on the autobahn someday, so what. Post #78, new member, 1st post, day before the vote, inflamatory remarks. Maybe the guy is sincere, maybe he's a shill from your side, I don't know. Saw the same thing happen over at another forum,guy going around with Fat Jack, I think, referenced on this forum, go figure.

My last name is Roman. No anonymity now. I use the same screen name in a few forums and have never been secretive about my identity. My Senator assured me, just yesterday in fact, he'd vote against the boat speed limit because he is against the boat speed limit. I'm sure my opinions about driving on 93 or 95 have absolutely no bearing on his decision.

I have driven extensively on the autobahn, no desire to go over there again... Works really well even though the lanes are narrower than here and trucks are limited to <60 MPH. Of course, Germany (and Europe in general for that matter) requires substantially more training to get a driver's license than we do. Funny how speed limit proponents would rather just dumb things down for everybody instead of educating the folks who really need it.

I’m not willing to accept any deaths on our lakes.

Apparently you haven't noticed that here’s a huge difference between highways and lakes. Highways are for high speed transportation – their main function is to get from on place to another. Lakes are for recreation – there’s no real need for speed on lakes, because you’re already there.

The real question is what gives you the right to put your liberties above the liberties of others? My personal liberties are being tread upon by people like you – who demand to go fast, no mater how it impacts others. My only way to fight back is to push for laws that will protect my rights.

It’s pretty easy to act brave out on a lake in a big powerboat. What is lame are the powerboaters like you, who think that there’s nothing wrong with bullying your way through our waters.

It’s very different out there, when you’re sitting below the waterline. I’d love to see how you would do in a kayak - with a powerboat screaming by - just 150 feet away - at 100 mph. I bet your cockpit would be wet – and I’m not talking about lake water.

Hey, if you’re having trouble seeing kayaks, maybe you need to slow down a bit. I’ve never had any trouble spotting another kayak, not matter what color they are.

Let Freedom Thrive in NH
 

Just to quell fears and set the record straight, I'm firmly an opponent and I have no connection with any other forum members. I simply made a point in my previous post (regarding 100mph comment) that canoers and kayakers should act in manner consistent with their own risk tolerance and if that means staying out of the broads on the weekends then so be it. Again, my perspective on this is based on two factors: 1. my own self interest. 2. my willingness to accept a certain risk level before giving up personal liberties. My slant is based more on my second factor than my first because if people were dying on a weekly basis from speeding boats I would even favor a speed limit.

I agree education works as long as those being educated actually care. Those who don't care never will, and no law - be it a speed limit, a safe passing distance, or some other measure - will serve to protect responsible boaters from these people.

To be quite frank, I don't have a boat that goes much faster than 45mph, but I do have 2 jetskis that do 70MPH and I don't particular want to lose my right to do 50,60,70 mph. I have never been cited by marine patrol and consider myself a very safe boater who knows the laws of the lake. Why should I and other responsible individuals like me be penalized by a speed limit? To reduce the fear of others of fast moving boats? We all have phobias, if fast boats are your phobia then stay off the lake.

If it were obvious a speed limit would reduce fatalities then maybe I'd reconsider, but up until now I've seen no evidence from supporters that this is the case. What I have seen is supports bicker over the estimated speed of a boat that was involved in the only fatality in the last 5 years that occured at a speed possibly higher than the proposed speed.

I hate to see posts that equate boating to driving for the purpose of justifying a speed limit because they are non-comparable. I previously mentioned driving in relation to risk tolerance by making the point that many more people are killed annually on NH roads than on NH lakes, yet there isn't nearly as much support to reduce speed limits on highways. What's interesting is that more people usually die in the winter on Winnipesaukee in either snowmobiling accidents or ice house accidents than during the summer, yet again there is little support by unbiased "safety" proponents to pass laws that prevent people from going on the lake in the winter. Why? Because these deaths are usually the result of stupidity and as we all know only Darwinian evolution will solve that problem.

Us opponents should all band together, pool some money, and sure up opposition by buying those senators who actually may favor this bill a 40' Fountain...maybe that would sway their vote.

[QUOTE=NHFreedom]
What's interesting is that more people usually die in the winter on Winnipesaukee in either snowmobiling accidents or ice house accidents than during the summer, yet again there is little support by unbiased "safety" proponents to pass laws that prevent people from going on the lake in the winter. Why? Because these deaths are usually the result of stupidity and as we all know only Darwinian evolution will solve that problem.
QUOTE]

Another reason is that some of the "safety" people are primarily concerned about their own safety. If an idiot does something stupid and gets themselves killed that is unfortunate but no one gets riled up because it is not a threat to them. If there was concern about safety in general we would require safe boating courses for unpowered vehicles as well because there are significant numbers of deaths in these boats that have nothing to do with external factors but are only the result of "operator failure".

Live Free Or Die
 

NH Freedom,
Please scroll up to post #34 and you'll see you are not alone in your thinking.
Nobody wants to take the BULL by the horns and tell these people they can't impose their fear on us with legislation. You go out on the big Lake you need to play with the big boys(maybe a 40' Fountain):D

The Breeze
Wave 'cause I'll Be waving back

You folks still miss the point
 

Put aside all the arguments pro and con for a minute.

If the majority of NH residents wants a speed limit and think it would enhance their safety then that is the end of the argument. There is no way to win the argument with those opposed to the speed limit. The out of state opponents have no business in this argument.

The reality is that if go slower I have more time to get out of your way and live another day.

Where is the proof that the majority of NH residents want a speed limit? Just because some phony poll of 600 people said so? If this case were properly presented with facts instead of fear, then put to a statewide vote of the residents themselves (no polls, no legislature), it would still go down in flames:fire: .

"The reality" is that there is no problem. The proponents of this bill took their campaign to the public, problem is they weren't honest. They talked about 150 mph boats, like that was the standard speed for the lake, it is not. They talked about the children, they threw that in for good measure. They talked about wakes and shore erosion, won't be stopped by a speed limit. They talked about congestion, once again speed limit no solution. They talked about all the deaths due to speeds above the limit, only problem, they couldn't find any so they used the Littlefield incident and spun it. Now we're down to:"The reality is that if go slower I have more time to get out of your way and live another day.". You've got nothing to support your argument.

As far as the out of state comment, tell me I don't have to pay my NH property tax anymore, stop the out of state proponents from talking, come clean about the spin and exaggeration , then maybe I'll shut up, otherwise prove your case.

who has what for a boat
 

It is very interesting isn't it! Many of us have stated numerous times the types of boats we have and the top speed. Especially, when we were testifying to the Rep's or Senator's.

Personally, I have had Four Winns Cuddy Cabin, then a Larson Cruiser and now that I own a home and don't live on the boat, we now have a Sea Ray Bow Rider.

The max speeds of these boats varied from 38mph to 42mph.

Obviously, I can not exceed the proposed speed limit. However, I am very opposed to HB162. I am for safety. I have two small children that boat with me and I use common sense and education to ensure their safety!!

Many of the people in opposition believe that Laws should only be passed when supported by facts and data. Not witch hunts or discrimination.

I may not always agree with what others do or how they behave, but we can not legislate on the minority and without data.

Good point, other than the fact that it's irrelevant. NH does not make laws by a popular vote. We have a legislature for that. We carefully (hopefully) elect them and pay them (poorly) to make decisions like this. Our founding fathers were very careful when the government was formed. They knew that popular does not always = good and tried to make sure that the Senate would consist of only the wisest and most experienced folks who would not be easily swayed by public opinion. This key point is often misunderstood and folks tend to put Representatives and Senators in the same class.

Of course the key word is "IF". One of the reasons NH and most free countries have representive democracy instead of pure demeocracy is time. The process gives people time to understand the issues and elect representatives to support their ideas. So in the long term, the voters of NH will decide this issue by electing people. Right now this process seems to have stopped a reactionary response, to a request from a special interest group. JDeere is right, "IF" the voters really want this law, eventually they will get it. That's a big "IF"

Freedom of speech isn't about showing boobs at a football game or saying the f-word on the radio, it's about political discussion and debate. I'm not sure why people's addresses are an issue.

Listen to Senate Live
 

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/live/senate.html

Debate is currently going on.

My boat cost me $36,000, used, and I had to drive to and from Indianapolis to get it. It is not a speed boat. It's a clean and reliable 25' cuddy cabin that sleeps 2 adults and 2 kids for a somewhat comfortable weekend, or makes a great day boat for 7-10 people to enjoy. We use it for both purposes, though only as a day boat on winnipesaukee because sadly, it's illegal to sleep at anchor and we trailer exclusively. It's quiet and tops out around 48 to 53 MPH depending on the load. It rarely exceeds 35 MPH and spends most of it's time either at anchor or cruising at 28-32 MPH. An 18 foot aluminum boat would be just fine if I had a lake house (not on an island though...), but I don't.

If I wish to spend a day on the water with friends or family that have no boat, I must have a boat big enough to accomodate them or a place on the lake. $36,000 is a whole lot easier to justify than, say $400,000 (minumum???) for a lake house I can use, at most, 90 days of the year due to work constraints. Retirement will likely change that philosophy and I may become your neighbor someday... For now, I probably spend less on gas, upkeep, depreciation, and the occasional lake house rental than most lake front home owners pay in property taxes. It's a simple matter of economics.

A 45-25 speed limit will not affect the way I boat AT ALL, EVER. I just oppose the idea and love a good debate.

Hb162
 

As of this morning.... HB162 is dead for now. Voting is done.

I truly hope that everyone can make ammends and continue to try and support education and the Marine Patrol.

Have a great day,

No, you just sound like the usual FLL.

Les, less negative enegy and more positive energy and have a great time on the Lake doing your thing, whatever that may be.

HB 162 is Dead
 

Common sense prevails..thank god
Winnipesaukee continues to be enjoyed by ALL :D :D

Hopefully people will be more careful this summer. Have a safe boating season everyone.