Here is the link http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/p...909240319/1017

And the letter:
As I was sitting at the Meredith town docks reading Jack Weeks's column concerning his support for the speed limit law on Lake Winnipesaukee ("All quiet on the big lake," Sunday Monitor Viewpoints, Sept. 20), a few things came to mind.

Weeks attributes the reduced boating activity to the success of the new speed limits. However, recent reports in all the local newspapers, not to mention statements from the Marine Patrol and marina owners, all said that boat traffic was way down this summer, not only on Lake Winnipesaukee, the only lake affected by the speed limits, but across the entire Lakes Region. Not surprising, given the economic recession and the poor weather in June, July and parts of August.

The economy has battered people's retirement accounts and home values, and the unemployment rate has risen to a two-decade high. Not exactly the environment one would expect a lake area to thrive in.

What surprised me the most was Weeks's statement that "We finally had a summer without a high-speed tragedy." This made me wonder, when was the last time a high-speed tragedy occurred on Lake Winnipesaukee? New Hampshire Marine Patrol accident statistics do not list a "high-speed tragedy" in recent memory.

As to his praise for the Marine Patrol, it well is deserved, since their budgets are not thriving in this economy. But I feel the praise was misplaced.

The Marine Patrol director is on the record at least twice in not supporting the speed limits. His reasoning? Speeding is not a problem on the lake. The tests on Winnipesaukee last year pretty much backed up the director's claims.

The law has a sunset provision, a given period of two years.

The supporters now want to make the law permanent, without any data to review. They know full well that the lake traffic this year was pretty low, not to mention that the data would clearly not support the speed limit.

Lake Winnipesaukee is a state treasure, not something that belongs to people with political or ideological agendas. It is a shared resource.

Before anyone buys into Weeks's drama concerning the chaos that has magically disappeared, perhaps you should ask him and the WinnFabs to support any of their previous claims that chaos of speeding boats ever existed in the first place! Drama belongs in the theater, not in the law-making process.

To be fair there is also another small letter in the Laconia Daily Sun today from a supporter. Opinion is fine. He doesn't say anything inflameatory. The only issue again is he says they FEEL safer with the limits. Again laws are not supposed to make you feel safer they are supposed to make you safer... I can't stand redundant laws that accomplish nothing.....

I'm curious who keeps the count of canoes and kayaks on the lake? According to the author (who is probably a member of WinnFABS - IMO) there were "many" more non powered boats on the lake.

Seems to me it's just another ficticious statistic - similar to all of the high speed accidents from previous years.

Scare tactics, misinformation and right out lies-appear to be the tools utilized by the Extreme Speed Limit Supporters.

I have two questions:

-If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it still make a sound?

-If I blast across the broads at 65mph and no one is close enough to hear or see me are people still Traumitzed??????

Deleted....

Reason: Poor attempt at sarcastic humor! Sorry guys!

Woodsy

Woodsy, I am not sure where you were trying to end up with your post. Onlywinni was criticizing supporters of the limit. Maybe you misinterpreted the post, or am I?

I was kinda confused as well... Figured it would come out sooner or later.. I believe Woodsy is also a speed limit opposer.

He is, which is why I could not understand where he was going with it.

If you read it carefully, he was trying to be sarcastic.

However, like all the speed limit threads for the past year, it doesn't really matter what he was trying to convey because nobodies mind is being changed anyway.

One of the problems I’ve had with all the speed limit rhetoric this year has been the frequent references to “the testing done last year” or “the lake has been paradise these last 2 years”. Apparently, these people don’t realize that the “testing” they keep referring to as taking place in 2008 was actually supposed to be done in 2007! I say “supposed” because they never marked the test zones AND never enforced a temporary speed limit in 2007!! Instead, all the MP did was collect data (on many areas of the lake, not just those intended “test speed limit zones”), recording how many boats were observed and at what rate of speed those boats were traveling. Anyone who was aware of this didn’t have to worry about being ticketed for “speeding” because they knew MP WAS NOT TICKETING! Therefore, there shouldn’t have been any false sense of security supposedly caused by boaters obeying a speed limit; there was no speed limit in 2007 to obey other than the usual posted NWZ’s and speed limits created/set by the 150’ rule. There was also NO speed limit OR testing in 2008!!! The ONLY thing speed-limit-related that happened last year was HB-847 was introduced, passed and signed into law effective 1/1/2009!!!

The “paradise” or “calmness” on the lake last year probably had more to do with the lousy weather, economy tanking and the high price of boat fuel!!!!

Just my 2 cents…………:rolleye2: :rolleye1:

Yes he was. I do happen to know Woodsy personally and I am confident he was being sarcastic. :D

He and Onlywinni surely see eye to eye on this issue. I believe Woodsy was merely pointing out that nobody could possibly be Traumatized by any boat traveling at any speed ever. The definition of the word clearly spells that out. That doesn't stop the SL supporters from using terms like that to support their cause.

This was an obviously poor attempt at sarcastic humor and was certainly not intended to insult OnlyWinni... I would feel awful if I traumatized him. It was an attempt to be sarcastic towards the logic often used by the speed limit supporters.....

Sorry if I offended in any way!

Woodsy

I'm not sure it's possible to traumatize him with posts Woodsy.

I was traumatized this morning when I say three to five footers driven from the North here. I thought I was traumatized, but now I'm not so sure :laugh:

They were going really fast for waves.

Emergency Rights Are Not an Entitlement...
 

The Marine Patrol's Public Safety officers meet emergency requirements with much less than 55-MPH—perhaps with an MP fleet-average of only 45-MPH. (!)

With emergencies met by Public Safety officers at an average speed of 45-MPH, what is 90-MPH—but a reckless disregard for the naïve boater who occasions Lake Winnipesaukee?
.
.
:confused:
.
.
.

Back Then...
 

1) I'd give you "double-points" if your progenitors were Native-Americans, but even they arrived from "somewhere else". ;)

2) It pains me to hear my elderly Dad speak sometimes:
This state's natural beauty needs to be cut down, built up, and an American flag posted over it? :confused: :(
.
.
3) Your New Hampshire Grandfather (and mine) were far less conscious of the importance New Hampshire's natural scenery, forests, lake quality and wildlife has to residents and to tourists.

Neither of our Grandfathers likely objected to the despoiling of New Hampshire scenery—even to the point that an organization had to be formed in our Grandfathers' day. What conditions caused NH citizens to respond to NH's despoiling? :confused:

Loggers had burned "slash" from slopes on the White Mountains that blocked visibility on the streets of Boston! :eek2:

4) Back then, remember, it was not uncommon to shoot Loons—for sport! :eek:

Until genetic engineering can breed Loons with fluorescent-orange plumage, well...the "enlightened concerns of Today" means we need to live with sane speeds on the Big Lake.

Speeds we can live with.
.
.
IMO
.
.

Lake natives
 

Okay so I am Iroquis and not Abenaki. My ancestors arrive from Adirondocks. Maybe EVERYONE should go home and leave the lake be???? :D

No offense taken here...

I was being a wise guy in the first place...

Another concerned citizen, one from the Republican town of Wolfeboro of all places, wrote to the LaDaSun last Friday, I think, with a straight foward and intelligent letter supporting the speed limits and supporting WinnFabs. Will go search the kitchen trash basket for that letter.........later......must have been a Democratic albatross or something?.......:rolleye1:

Darn, I was going to copy/paste that letter to the editor from Friday's paper but the way the Laconia Daily Sun puts their paper "online", it cuts off the bottom of every page and that letter is at or near the bottom so part of is missing. I wouldn't want to paste part of it here and be accused of improper editing.

Anyone have the actual paper and can transcribe it into a post here? :)

Fri. Letter in LDS supporting Speed Limits
 

Here's a copy/paste from page 4 of Friday's Laconia Daily Sun
Laconia Daily Sun - Friday Sept. 25, 2009


East side of the lake supports 45/25 boat speed limit as well

To the editor,
Living on the east side of Lake Winnipesaukee,
I seldom see a copy of
your fine newspaper. I was fortunate
to pick up the September 17 issue and
was pleased to see the letter from Mr.
Jack Weeks of Meredith. His observation
that there was much more family
boating activity (kayaks, canoes,
small runabouts, etc) on the lake this
summer certainly applies to the east
side of the lake as well as the west
side. The general feeling that the lake
is a much safer place with the 45/25
mile speed limit in place is shared by
all that I have talked to over here.
His plea to make the 45/25 mile an
hour speed limits permanent is fully
supported by most of us on this side
of the lake. We ask that all of you who
support Mr. Week’s views to write
to your legislators asking that they
make the law permanent.
To the best of my knowledge, Mr.
Weeks has not been associated with
WinnFABS (Winnipesaukee Family
Alliance for Boating Safety), so we are
most delighted to know that he supports
our efforts financially and with
his writing.
Those readers who would like to
support WinnFABS financially or
would prefer to have WinnFABS forward
their letters to their legislators,
can contact WinnFABS at PO Box
1341. Meredith, NH 03253.
name redacted
Wolfeboro

---------

for a different point of view see next post

Letter to LDS, Speed is not the enemy
 

Do the Math's post #62 in this thread appeared in the Laconia Daily Sun today, Tuesday September 29, 2009. Thanks DtM. Here's a copy/paste.

From Laconia Daily Sun page 5, Laconia Daily Sun Tuesday September 29, 2009

Face it people, boat speed is not the enemy & never has been

To the editor,
Throughout my adult life I have
had all kinds of boats, big, small, fast,
slow, etc. I literally grew up “summering”
on Lake Winnipesaukee; I am the
third generation of my family to do
so, and have watched it change quite
a bit over my 40 years, changes that
reflect not only improvements to the
lake and it’s surrounding areas but
some, admittedly, I don’t fully agree
with. For example, I miss Anderson’s
Bakery in Center Harbor, they had
the best donuts! And as a kid, walking
to Robbins General Store for candy
or an ice cream out of the cooler. And
most of all, EVERYONE waved at
each other — what ever happened to
the “original” wave when passing
your fellow boater? Anyway, I digress.
I honestly think the “most fun” boat
I/ we had growing up was a 13-foot
Whaler with a 40 hp 2S Merc on it. We
bought it new from Browns, and once
dialed-in correctly would run 42-44-
mph on it’s best day, in perfect conditions.
At WOT that boat felt like it was
going 80-mph — you were 12-inches
off the water and it was a blast! I
scared a lot of friends that
weren’t “boat people” in that thing
— great boat! Now, fast-forward —
jumping up to a 42-foot
Outerlimits with 1,700 hp, at 100-
mph — it feels like you are sitting in
an easy-chair with a big fan blowing
wind in your face. It’s all relative to
the size and conditions at the time
you are out. At 65-mph, that same
boat feels like it’s “loafing” along, the
engines are running smooth and easy
and you barely feel the waves you are
crossing, it is a very comfortable and
controlled ride.
As another WInnipesaukee Forum
member has mentioned numerous
times in previous posts, these boats are
DESIGNED to perform VERY well and
very controlled at the speeds that they
achieve. Imagine doing 65-mph in a
13-foot Whaler — as much as I would
love to try it, given an open body of
water with no boat traffic and flat and
calm conditions, I would never dream of
doing it on Winni, ever!
It’s funny how most speed Limit
proponents seem to forget something
very important — and I have said
this over and over — guns don’t kill
people, people kill people! We always
read about “Captain Bonehead” on the
forum — note, no one ever refers to
the boat itself, it is always the operator!
“This guy on a jet ski cut in front
of me yesterday, what a jerk” or “I
had this guy in a bowrider, with nine
people on board nail it coming out of
the channel, he was only 25-feet from
me”. Now, in any case of negligence or
“operator” error has it been the boats
fault that what happened, happened!?
Did “the boat” decide to go against
the operator and turn itself in front of
you, cutting you off and breaking the
150-foot rule!? Did “the boat” decide
to slow to a speed that let up a huge
wake and crash your boat against
your dock — damaging both — while
the operator yelled at it telling it not
to? To quote Forrest Gump: “stupid is
as stupid does”, and if you look at the
last (and ONLY)
two significant accidents to occur on
the lake over the previous 10+ years,
extenuating circumstances not withstanding,
both point to operator error,
period! (And at least one so far was
proven to have taken place UNDER
30-mph!).
Call it what you will, bad judgment,
driver impaired, weather conditions,
etc., at the end of the day, it is the
operator that is responsible, always.
I know plenty of people on this lake
who own boats that will run fast, very
fast, and not a SINGLE one of them
has been involved in an incident of
any kind that would be construed as
negative. I have seen over the period
that the speed limit has become an
issue, an exponential number of
“family boats”, cruisers and waverunners
involved in the most unbelievably
dumb, careless and unsafe incidents!
The speed limite has had nothing to
do with any perceived changes in the
way the lake was this summer, chalk
it up to the economy and sheer coincidence.
Incidentally, I still saw more
than my fair share of “captain boneheads”
on the lake this summer and
I was up less than all prior summers,
oh, and NONE were driving a performance
boat! None involved going
really fast either, it was mostly the
150-foot rule and the right of way
rule that were the culprit, and tubing/
skiing in the most foolish locations -
traffic-laden, etc., and just not paying
general attention.
Face it people, speed is not the
enemy here, and it never has been,
but some people like to think that
the performance boat crowd is — that
our “Golden Pond” has become a playground
for all they despise. Gone are
the birch-bark canoes, replaced with
loud and “unsafe” speed boats. How
about gone are the responsible owner/
operators ACTING responsibly! You
are responsible for your own actions;
man-up and act like you are!
There is plenty of water for all to
enjoy, but we need to be responsible
for your actions, on and off the water! I
can assure you, I can promise you and
prove to you that a 20-foot bowrider
at 50-mph can be far more dangerous
than a 38-foot performance boat at
the same speed.
Sure, there are times that I wish this
lake was the lake I knew when I was
a kid, less populated and developed,
but at the same time, I love the lake
today! My 4 1/2-year-old son also loves
the lake, being out on the boat, visiting
friends and playing in the water.
You know, “he-said, she-said, he-did,
she-did” is getting old and moving us
no where fast! Let’s figure it out and
make it work people, so future generations
to come can enjoy it all too.
name redacted
Acton, Mass.

Past publications of the Laconia Daily Sun
 

If you want past publications of the Laconia Daily Sun, all you have to do is change the date of the address that you put in the address bar of you browser. Some people who post on forums will type in a different name for the address and then hyperlink it to the correct URL.
Example; http://www.laconiadailysun.com/Lacon...2009/9/29L.pdf will take you to the 2009/9/29 issue of the paper. If you change the date in the address to 2008/9/29L it will take you to the 2008 issue. Example: http://www.laconiadailysun.com/Lacon...2008/9/29L.pdf

:)

Welcome Sam
 

Do we have the pleasure of welcoming a representative of the LDS? If so, I love the fact that the online version reads in PDF scroll mode. It makes it seem like the real thing.

Nope, not affiliated with any Newspaper.

You can do the same thing to the Conway Daily Sun.
Example: http://www.laconiadailysun.com/pdf/2009/9/29.pdf

Now change the date to 2009/9/28. Example: http://www.laconiadailysun.com/pdf/2009/9/28.pdf

Notice that the address is almost like the LDS.

You can right click on any address and then click on properties to get the exact URL. Then you can copy that address to your browser address bar and go to that website.

If someone types in something other than the exact URL, you can right click the name and go to properties to copy the address.

:)

Enforce 150' rule and most 'speeding' problems will go away
 

I'm with you on this one. Far too often my only problem with boats going too fast have been those violating the 150' rule.

Twice within a period of half an hour a Captain Bonehead passed too close, on the first occasion almost swamping my boat.

My father-in-law and I were on our way back to Smith Cove from Weirs Beach and as we were making our way (at headway speed) towards Governor's Island bridge, a boat passed between us and the shore at 'mush' speed. We were only 100' from the shoreline, so he was about 50-60' off the shore. His wake spilled over our transom and left almost a foot of water in the cockpit before it drained away into the bilge. (Thank goodness the bilge pump was able to get rid of it!)

The second incident took place after we had pumped the bilge dry and and made the turn towards the bridge but before we reached the No Wake zone. There was another boat about 80' ahead of us and the second Captain Bonehead was also heading towards the bridge and decided to 'thread the needle' between us while on plane.

Both were speeding but not in violation of the speed limit. They were speeding because they broke the 150' rule. I'll bet a wide majority of the so-called speeding incidents are really 150' rule violations.

I don't agree
 

I think the real reason 'peace and harmony' have appeared has little to do with the speed limit. Boat traffic in general is down. Ask anyone at the marinas, the gas docks, and the boat ramps, or ask the Marine Patrol. For the second season in a row boat traffic is down. This year there have been a large number of unrented slips, something I've never seen before. Quite a few of my friends ended up trailering their boats rather than renting slips. They didn't go out onto the lake nearly as often as they have in the past.

Actually the scrolling function can be setup to work with any Adobe file by changing how the default layout is setup.

To change the default layout in Adobe Reader, open Adobe Reader and go to the tool bar and do the following:

1. Choose Edit > Preferences.
2. Under Categories, select Page Display.
3. Open the Page Layout menu and choose either Automatic, Single Page, Single Page Continuous, Two-Up, or Two-Up Continuous. (I prefer Single Page Continuous)
4. Click OK after you have selected your page Layout.

These changes will become effective the next time you open an Adobe file.
:)

You bet WP, most of us agree 100% with that. Hopefully, next year will provide a much better boating season.

You guys really need to stop obsessing. Do you have pictures of me lining the walls of your bedrooms too? Do you Google my name first thing every morning when you turn on your computers? You both apparently spend all your waking hours on this "Anti-Speed Limit" forum, so when do you get time for the hi-speed boating that you supposedly enjoy so much? All this mention of me just tempts me back, and I know you don't want these "Anti-Speed Limit" threads tainted by people who believe in the rule of law.


Exactly.
Could those really be the causes? Could "peace and harmony" really have reappeared because of some rain in June? Because of an economic recession? Nice theories, but I don't think so. Isn't it much more plausible that they returned because of the change in the law that forced a return to "peace and harmony"?

Here's a well-articulated story from the same paper that you guys conveniently missed that explains it better;
ftp://www.laconiadailysun.com/Laconiapdf/2009/9/29L.pdf

"For those who need to pilot a boat at 90 MPH, the ocean is nearby
To the editor,
The letters from Mr. Verdonk and
Mr. Stewart exemplify the problems
the high speed boating crowd faces
trying to find fault with a speed limit.
They just don’t know how to find a
problem with such a sensible law, so
they make things up.
While I appreciate that Mr. Stewart
at least had the fortitude to admit
that boaters slowed down because of
the speed limit, saying that the only
thing that did was erode her shoreline
is just plain silly. Why would a “ginormous”
boat going 45 erode her shoreline
and the same boat going 85 not?
If “ginormous” boats are going anything
over headway speed that close
to his shoreline, then he has other
causes to complain besides a speed
limit. If “ginormous” boats were going
that close to my shoreline, I certainly
wouldn’t want them to be going 85
MPH.
And as to Mr. Verdonk’s letter, it is
a common debating trick to start off
with a mischaracterization of your
opponent’s position, then disprove the
mischaracterization. But if one reads
Mr. Verdonk’s letter with my actual
statements in mind, it all falls apart.
I never “attribute the reduced boating
activity to the success of the new
speed limits” as he asserts to set up
his whole letter. In fact, as I said, I was
referring to the times I was seeing as
many if not more boats out there. Several
weekends in August the lake was
as crowded as I’ve ever seen it, but it
just FELT LIKE it was less crowded
because almost everyone was going
slower, as Ms. Stewart also saw. How
did the economy do that? More civility
during sunny days when the lake
is just as crowded has nothing to do
with the economy or bad weather. The
economy and rain might have affected
the boating numbers this year (at
times), but it could only have been the
speed limit that slowed them down, as
Mr. Stewart himself admits.
The typical Granite Stater new to
this whole discussion will ask how
anyone could rationalize opposition to
a reasonable limit of boating speeds
on a lake so crowded with such big
boats. But of course, those who make
a lot of money over-crowding our
lake with over-fast boats and those
who boast about the “need for speed”
are not your typical Granite Staters.
They don’t think rationally. Their selfish
interests and “needs” cloud their
common sense. And they are not interested
in the activities that most Granite
Staters enjoy or that NH wants to
offer tourists to attract them to come
here.
The brochures one picks up at our
rest stops show the natural beauty of
our state. Photos depict our beautiful
lakes and mountains as safe and
open to family recreational activities.
You see canoes and sailboats. You see
families water skiing and fishing. You
see loons and sunsets. Imagine how
many tourists we’d attract if those
brochures instead showed 6-ton boats
flying around at 80-90 mph amongst
the canoes and kayaks? That is not the
NH I grew up in, or that my summer
neighbors want to come to. For every
one tourist such an image attracts to
NH, it will send 100 somewhere else.
See what that does to our economy,
Mr. Verdonk.
Forty-five MPH is a very reasonable
top speed for a boat on Lake Winnipesaukee.
It’s the typical speed limit
on lakes like Winnipesaukee around
the country and has proven effective
over and over. There is not a single
lake-appropriate boating activity that
one cannot enjoy at 45 MPH. And for
those with “the need” to go 90 MPH,
the ocean is just 50 miles down the
road. Anyone who argues that 45 is
too slow for this lake, whether blaming
it on shore erosion, the economy,
the weather, or some other nonsensical
reason, is just not being honest.
As Mr. Chase’s letter said, the bottom
line is that NH’s citizens asked for the
law and seem to love its effects, while
the offenders are obviously unhappy
with it. How many laws can we say
that about? And doesn’t that prove it’s
working?
Jack Weeks
Meredith"


PS; I bet it will take less than one hundred and twenty seconds for OCD to respond.

Elchase is apparently the type of person that truely enjoys having people talk about him. I would recommend that we do not continue to temp him back, discuss the subject of his posts and pretend that it came out of thin air, he will eventually get frustrated with not having anyone talk about him or his ideals.

Actually we need to have elchase keep posting, IMO it clearly makes the case of the opposers to the speed limit.

Fat Jack???
 

I've got to wonder if these letters submitted by Jack Weeks is also the same infamous "Fat Jack" from the prior speed limit debates back in 06' & 07'? and what possible screen name is he going by now???

Farve
 

Mr. Chase / Mr. Favre

I have to admire your resiliency. We all understand your position on the speed limit. You wrote your editorials and you have a right to do that. Some speed limit opponents wrote their editorials and they had the right to as well.

I actually think you believe every word you have written. It’s not a lie if one believes its truth. Please give those who oppose you the same consideration.

Use the Ignore Feature
 

I have elchase on ignore.

Reading his posts became something I decided I no longer needed to do. If we all had him on ignore, the silence would be golden.

R2B

Kracken, Take everyone else's advice and don't bother engaging.. Nothing can come out of it.... No need getting down to that level.

Farve fades back to pass... pressure and is sacked...........

Just a few comments
 

Questions remain.

And will remain unasked ;)

El, I can only direct you to this thread I started, and pretty much spoke my peace. Feel free to contribute.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=8617

You are correct OCDACTIVE, I have detracted the question to elchase.

I don't need speed or speed limits
 

I won't quote the entire letter but will highlight a few items. I'll also add a few comments in blue

Bingo! Don't feed the trolls...

Gilligan!
 

GREAT JOB GILLIGAN!!!

You hit the nail so hard on the head it 'aint even funny! :)

I couldn't have said it better.