OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

Ummmm.... Part Deux!
 

Rusty....

You could not be more wrong..... WOW! More OPINION posted as FACT!

An accident like that can happen at any time on any lake! A speed limit has nothing to do with it.

The boat in question here most likely spun out due to driver error... this can happen in ANY boat while on plane. Let go of the steering wheel on some boats and the prop torque causes the boats to heel over hard... A gimble can break on the transom... lots of things can cause an accident like this.

But, to be truthful, spin outs are seen quite a bit in boats with a step in the hull. Lots of the newer small/mid sized family runabouts have stepped hulls as well as most modern hi-performance boats.

This video is a pretty good learning tool.... what the driver did right was have his kill switch lanyard attached. What the driver did wrong was just about everything else.. most importantly his passengers were not secure in their seats. The girl standing up is lucky she did not get seriously injured.

Again... if you are going to offer opinion as fact, you will get called out on it!

Woodsy

Unsafe at any speed.
 

Just ask Ralph Nader and his Nader Raiders. Any craft regardless of what propels it is unsafe at any speed! Even Kayakers and SUP users can be killed. Speed has nothing to do with it. Inattentive, inexperience and influenced drivers are mostly to blame. Problem is putting a limit to speed and distance between boats only delay the inevitable. Not prevent it.

Things like safety lanyards, Safety courses, tougher DUI laws and other similar laws can go a long way to making the lake safer. Not limits like speed, horsepower, size and distance.

The fire is on!

Everything that you say is factual but if someone says "speed is unsafe" then it isn't factual and there shouldn't be any limits on it. This is too funny to be real.
The fact of the matter is that there is a speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee and I'm glad that there is.
The video that I posted "could" have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee if there wasn't a law against going that fast. Call it what you want but that my friend is a "fact".

Yeah, thank GOD for "Winifabs" (sic), Rusty. They will go down in history as the BEST organization that was able to pull the wool over the inept NH Legislature. That same organization whose last name is "safety", but their agenda had nothing to do with safety. That same organization that knows how to spin facts into nonsense. Yes, Rusty, thank GOD we have them. (Just like we thank GOD we have the best President in history in the White House right now.) :rolleye1:

How does the OP's statement turn into a snide remark about the President?

Rusty...

Walking is unsafe given the proper conditions.... Pretty much everything a person does during the day could be considered unsafe... take a shower this morning? VERY unsafe given the accident stats! Drive your car today? Driving your car is statistically very dangerous! Even if you did obey every single speed limit and traffic law! LOL

If you are for a speed limit, good for you. You are entitled to that OPINION! If you want to think that the accident in the video didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee because of a speed limit.. You are entitled to that OPINION!

If you want to state that the reason that accident didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee is because of the speed limit as FACT.... I am going to call you out on it!

Where is the proof that NO accidents like that have happened since the speed limit? Where is the STUDY that the Lake is safer because of it? Where are the FACTS??

Oh wait... you don't have any! You just have your OPINION.

Sorry that just doesn't cut it for me...

Woodsy

Everything I say is an opinion and everything you say is backed up with facts. Fair enough, have a good day.

Rusty...

I can back up every statement I have made... I can provide links and you can research it the same way I have. Its not an issue.

Its like political ads we are being inundated with... both sides have a story/opinion, but where are the UNBIASED FACTS??

Woodsy

Read Post # 32 in this thread and you will find your answer:

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...sident+history

Outlaw life here we come! Im preparation, does that mean that the MP and emergency crews will need to be restricted too? That could be fun!

I only use the "new posts" tab. Its clearly labeled Boating Issues on the right side of the thread. Let it go and stop reading threads you don't like. Much more annoying to a lot of us is when people whine:confused: about this stuff in those particular threads when it is CLEARLY labeled for them to see which ones to avoid.

This is not a Fact.... the definition of Fact from dictionary.com is:

noun
1.
something that actually exists; reality; truth:
Your fears have no basis in fact.
2.
something known to exist or to have happened:
Space travel is now a fact.
3.
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true:
Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4.
something said to be true or supposed to have happened:
The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
5.
Law.. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence.
Compare question of fact, question of law.

This is an opinion which is defined by dictionary.com as:

a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2.
a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3.
the formal expression of a professional judgment:
to ask for a second medical opinion.
4.
Law. the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.
5.
a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.:
to forfeit someone's good opinion.
6.
a favorable estimate; esteem:
I haven't much of an opinion of him.


These definition are indeed FACT....

The accident that happened on Lake of the Ozarks is FACT

The idea that a similar accident will not happen on Winnipesaukee, now because of the work of WinnFABS, is opinion.... and what you allude too....

Please Note that in my post I have not given my opinion on weather or not a accident like that could happen on Winnipesaukee. Your opinion of me and my beliefs may lead you to believe that I don't think it could happen on Winnipesaukee, But the FACT is, I know that things can go wrong at any speed, and for a verity of reasons, something similar could still very easily happen on Lake Winnipesuakee.

My reasons however don't just look at one item that I have a prejudice against. As has been spelled out here, a violent pitch of a boat on plane going over waves could happen from the following:

- Driver inexperience
- Boat poorly trimmed
- boat poorly loaded
- misjudgement of condition even from experienced skipper
- mechanical malfunction

Once again none of this is opinion it is all FACT......... Based on what can cause a boat to erratically pitch......One or all of these can lead to a problem just like in the video, at less then the current speed limit on the lake.

That sums it up.

Oh, jeez. Now I know why Chaselady wants to leave. Couldn't you use a little more tact? Aren't you just whining about whiners?😯

What Was ILLEGAL Is Now "Legal"...
 

​There's been a change. Perhaps the forum can stick with one issue, which was excessive boat exhaust noise. I'd like to see the electronic noise-dampening pioneered by Lotus cars applied to noisy boats.

I've been gone for 24 hours, and now we're on another old, and even violent topic! That said, the video's "comments" section includes the observation that one of the victims had said to "Hide the beer cans". :rolleye1:
I never before had seen the blue-shirted photographer apparently vomiting over the transom. :eek:

But, it has happened recently. If you go to that video, notice that the violence of the crash tore the anchor loose, which smashed the windshield. A collision here with Diamond Island resulted in the anchor striking a lakefront house! :eek2:

"Crashes" have been mentioned here before—along with the recommendation to "Take a Performance-Boat Skills Course offered by Tres Martin" (You may select your favorite lake). Only one member here has passed that course, as evidenced by at least three factual "self-sinkings" by "performance boats" on Lake Winnipesaukee. :rolleye2:

Back to "exhaust noise".

My one point was that the noise law was changed to dockside testing—which changes everything. A $250 fine for noise violations is ludicrous: a weekend gas-up for ocean-racers goes for less.

Then why has the NHMP reserved the right to perform "fly-by" testing as the follow-up alternative? I'd like to see a factual response.

Same as above: the NHMP has reserved the right to perform "fly-by" testing as an alternative. Why that reservation? :confused:

Too often, those are "one-and-the-same". In coves, harbors, bays, and inlets that were formerly quiet, exhaust noise has only become an issue in the last 20 years.

My camera has no special powers, but the videos are intended to prove fact. It's up to individual viewers to decide if the point has been made.

This opinion still stands:

Very one-sided, there were many accidents this year ranging from an older gentleman hitting a kayak near rattlesnake and a few prop injuries (What would Winfabbs do to help keep us safe from those?). There will always be accidents, some are stupidity, some accidents, etc. Is speed a contributing factor, yes, but so are untrained boaters, alcohol, on board distractions, etc.

Laying all of the blame for accidents on speed is a thin cover for other agendas. The reality is that most performance boat owners adhere to safety regulations and boat maintenance than the average boater, more to protect their investment than anything but it is what I have observed.

Ok so once again I see conjecture...with no FACTs to back it up. First of all I don't see the blue shirted photographer vomiting... I see him leaned over resting his head on the sundeck of the boat. the sundeck is not the transom. I have seen an interview with said photographer, who made reference to the fact that the driver of the boat made him uncomfortable during that event. However he was working and doing what his boss told him to do, which was ride and film that boat.

I see no anchor being torn loose in this video, I do see the accident, the boat was in the ocean and hit some big waves, and they did wash over the bow of the boat, but I don't see a broken windshield and don't see an anchor flying around either.

APS I am not trying to be rude here, but you seem to be making a lot of conjuncture here, with no proof to back it up.

Video
 

Just saw this video for the first time. Golly it looked so much fun. His passengers seemed terrified and were holding on for dear life...until the captain way over estimated his abilities to handle the boat and speed. Of course had he been going 45 MPH......he would have avoided the accident.

Perhaps, but that is like saying if we all drove our cars at 10 MPH, we would avoid accidents.

This viral video is a case of an operator who was over-matched by his vessel and the conditions. His boat was made to run at speed in rough conditions, he was not.

If you ever get a chance take a run across the broads in a similar boat at 45 :) in 4' ers to see and feel the difference in control and ride compared to the average 21' boat on the lake.

If it was in the "comments" section on Youtube, you really can't dispute that.

Youtube Comments = Facts.

How Fast??
 

Does anyone really know how fast the boat was going?? In my opinion I doubt he was going more than 50 mph, if he was, I think the crash would have been a lot more violent.

Speed wasn't the cause of this mishap... bad judgement, inexperienced Captain and plain old stupidity are!...

Dan

On the performance boat forums it was 51-53 mph, it's forum info, so not substantiated.

http://archive.news-leader.com/inter...-OF-THE-OZARKS

The driver, Marvin Carter of Memphis, Tenn., was cited with careless and imprudent operation following the Aug. 24 incident. But when the video of the accident was uploaded to YouTube on Aug. 31, he received another citation.

“After seeing the video, he was charged with a seating violation,” said Sgt. Jerry Callahan of the Missouri State Highway Patrol’s Water Division.

Callahan said that Carter estimated he was traveling 70 mph when the accident occurred.

Brett Tintera, a cameraman with LakeTV who was on the boat, disagreed with that estimate and said that Carter had floored the boat moments before the accident.

“We were doing over 100,” said Tintera, who added in a phone interview Wednesday that he’s been boating for over 20 years and dealing with high performance craft for the last half dozen. “When you open the throttles up, you go way higher than 60-70 mph.”

Speed did it!
 

Watch the video and watch the throttle. He has it wide open and the result was that the boat, operator and his passengers could not handle it....least not without injury. If he had been going 45 which btw would have been to fast when he hit the wake but if he was he proably would not have fallen down like a drunk sailor. He was damn lucky he did not kill people.

And no....it is not saying that if you drove at 10 mph we would avoid accidents. It is saying that if operate within the speed limits we are safer then IF WE put the pedal to the metal. I think that is just common sense.

As Ralph Nader says
 

Any vehicle is unsafe at ANY SPEED.

What's the point?

They have no point, just trying to stir the pot. Please do not feed the trolls as hard as it might be sometimes.

I guess my only point as a "troll" is that as a general rule Lake Winnipesaukee should not see GFBL vessels going 70-100 MPH anymore.
The testing grounds for how fast a boat can go are over on this Lake.

That is correct. The lake is now safe due to the 45mph day time and 30mph night time speed limit.

Common Sense
 

I really have no issue on way or the other but sorry, common sense says the boat in the video was going way to fast FOR the CONDITIONS...otherwise it does not happen. A smarter captain would have slowed down versus going full throttle. This was an issue of speed. Not sure I understand why or how anyone can rationally argue differently, yet it seems that some do and I respect their opinion and do not feel the need to call them trolls.

Safer
 

Lake is still a crazy place on a buys day BUT yes it is now safer than it was before!

And we still have one death too many. I don't see the lake any safer!

Today, Noise Encroaches Quiet Waters...
 

​"Working", but suffered bruised ribs, a broken leg, a ruptured disc and a broken wrist! He appears somewhat paler than at the beginning of the video. Maybe he was "resting his head" but had suffered four+ injuries, and vomiting can happen in traumatic events. I hadn't noticed earlier, but the gal in the white suit is behaving similarly. :eek:

It was left to the white-shirted "Fury-Racing" guy to shut the camera down.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...psa33c0cbf.jpg

The "driver" suffered [skull] damage to the orbits of his eyes.

Details from another powerboat forum:

More eye-witness testimony...

The above participants in this seven-passenger "ocean-racer" were described as part of a Poker Run. :eek2:

I've seen this video before, but on a much sharper monitor: watch at 5:48—the foredeck hatch flies open. Shortly, the anchor flies out—still attached with chain—strikes the windshield frame—and disappears into the spray.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...ps4ad98fc6.jpg

The Internet carries dozens of videos of the earlier seven-passenger crash, but in addition to several other worthwhile "boating adventures", this one carries a far better audio: (That is, if you like the sound of the engines followed by the clear sounds of multiple injuries.) :(

http://jukinvideo.com/videos/focus/C...VZhlu5ze5Cz74x

In addition to the Internet's many slow-motion segments, the GIF below is notable for fast-tracking the height of the action: watch the gal in yellow. Did she damage the windshield frame with her chin? Then bend the throttles with her ribs? :rolleye1:

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k8...5/cc8a69e0.gif

Her sunglasses go flying, do a "bank-shot" off the windshield frame, and end up back in the boat!

:rolleye2:
.

Showing that video over and over to make your speed limit point is laughable.I could show you 1000 times as many of car crashes.Makes no sense.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/6-0E2Nxtm6o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Speed
 

I guess this really is beating a dead horse but this video is clearly a result of speed...something they knew they were about to do since they videoed themselves. Simple physics would prove the slower (45 MPH) allows more reaction time. That is a fact not a conjecture.

The Speed Limit does make the lake "safer" but since we cannot outlaw boneheads and just everyday people who make mistakes that can have bad outcomes does not alter the fact the 45 MPH is safer than going 100 MPH. I had a situation where it was dusk and I did not see the boat in front of me...we were both on a collision course...he either did not see me or did not care...I saw the boat in time and it was no big deal...but I was only going 30 MPH...if I had been traveling at 90 MPH I would have made the news. Slower gave me much more time to react and correct my error of not seeing the boat sooner.

I do not really understand why we all accept speed limits on the road and skimobile trails yet somehow a common sense speed limit on the lake does not. I would assume the speed limit and noise limit are here to stay so maybe it is time to move on.

BTW....many sections of the inland waterway is heavily restricted in terms of speed...with many, many sections limited to no wake or minimum wake.

The other boater may have seen you perfectly well... which vessel was stand-on? I unfortunately, have been stand-on too many times and not been "given away" to and had to change my course. My friend was stand-on in Alton this summer and was hit hard on his port side.

The 'old "speed limit was essentially "reasonable and prudent for the conditions". The new SL says 45 or 30, however, either speed may be too fast for the conditions, but can easily give someone the defense of "but I was going the speed limit".

The SL is the SL, it is not going to change- we are beating a dead horse. But when people post a viral video of a poor boater, not on this lake, and try to make it something out of it, that it is not, people may respond.

Limited Manpower
 

With the limited manpower you would think it make sense to beef up the DUI laws, and other laws in existence rather than run around the lake looking for speeders. In fact since the law has pass there seem to be more boneheads on the lake, probably because of this. We are actually on the wrong track!

Since Winnfibs told the legislature that the lake is safe, they really assume that and future legislation are not needed. I didn't make this up as I have talk to a number of them in the halls and that is the impression! Again false signals that actually make the lake more dangerous!

I find myself in awe here, at where this thread has gone. I know I have played a part in that. But the bottom line is the bottom line.... We now have a speed limit law and it is what it is. We also have a noise law, and it is what it is....

If people break those laws they get into trouble if they are caught.

Don't say these laws aren't good enough, or try to defended them with scare tactics.

The battles over these trivial things has tainted the lake enough as it is. Everyone has their own opinion, and should be able to voice it. Make sure the Facts are Facts and not conjecture or opinion when you do so, and we will find that we all get along better.

APS, at 5:48 this video is over.... the scenes that you refer to happen between 1:00 and 2:00 mins.... I have watched several times, and I will agree that you do see the "anchor hatch" open, however I don't see an evidence of a flying anchor. This video is extremely poor quality, so it is incredibly hard to say anything concrete....

I can certainly conjecture, as you have done, but it is simply conjecture without any proof... hence I will not conjecture.... the fact of this video, is that the boat was in turbulent water, and the passengers and boat paid the price.

....no speed limit zone!
 

Well......I have brought this up before and always it gets totally ignored.....so not having anything better to do and being totally bored out of my mind I will bring it up again.....

...what Lake Winnipesaukee needs is a "no speed limit zone" on Sundays from nine to noon out on the broads!


That could be a fun area to go watch as a spectator boat, supposedly safe from behind the boundary marker buoys, as the big super-duper big-money go-fasts roar back and forth real fast.... like at 107-mph, gps confirmed! .... what a super suggestion.....ladies & gentlemen.....puh-lease start your engines!!!!:laugh::D:laugh: