Bike Path Required?
 

I saw this on the WOW Trail Facebook page last week. Anyone know more about this?

"This week's #throwbackthursday is brought to you by South Down Shores & Long Bay developer John Davidson and the City of Laconia Planning Board circa 1986. "Mr. deHaven questioned if the bike path was public. Davidson explained that by a condition of the Planning Board that a bicycle path was required."

https://www.facebook.com/WOWTrail/po...55337886832071

John Walker - Just what is 'community minded' & what is 'selfish'?
 

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/opini...hat-is-selfish

Jetskier:cool:

Here we go again...
 

Playing the "safety" card!

WOW Trail
 

It's a legitimate concern. During busy times, the forklift travels over the railroad tracks 200+ times a day. If the WOW trail is built, who has the right of way at the intersection of the WOW trail and the boat launch? If the forklift does, how does he stop in time when a bicyclist or a runner blows through the stop sign. Who's liable? Will the insurance obtained by the WOW trail and/or SD/LB protect them from liability?

Safety Card
 

I agree the safety card is just a smoke screen. The forklift, people and the train manage to get around the SDBC everyday including the extremely busy holiday weekends without issue I have had my boat there for 10 years

The train is slow moving and very easy to see approaching. The people around the area on busy weekend also tend to be familiar with the marina, tracks, etc., and have a certain degree of situational awareness. If you build a trail that encourages people not familiar with the environment to pass through you statistically increase the risk of incidents due to decreased situational awareness. It is basically the same as the "out of town driver" problem in busy cities.

Would this apply? https://www.nhstateparks.org/about-u...-statutes.aspx

I completely disagree, people are not morons and many out the "out of towners" are used to running, jogging, biking ect of much busier city streets. The lift, much like the train is also slow moving.

There are other battles to fight if you do not want the trail, such (and most importantly that would effect the everyone in Laconia) is where the funding is coming from that are much more legitimate arguments. Which I am completely on board with, if funds are coming from the city directly or via higher property tax I am completely against it.

Ok, so the WOW trail can build a pedestrian bridge across the ROW that the forklift uses. In fact, South Down should pay 1/2 of this cost (in my opinion). Problem solved.

Forklift
 

It would have to be quite a pedestrian walkway! Have you seen the forklift used to lift boats up to 26' long? The walkway would have to have a clearance of 15' or more. Anyway, the cost of such a walkway would be trivial compared to the engineering and construction costs involved in the areas near Lakeport Landing, Pickerel Cove, Perch Cove and the Weirs Beach bridge. I bet each section with be $1,000,000 or more.

Bridges are Very Expensive
 

Some of the requisite bridges will be as much as 1,000 ft long (ex: Chattel cove). If the bridge is 12' wide (to support a 10' trail and guard rails), then the overall square footage is 12,000 square feet. The cost range for this type of bridge is $150 to $250 per square foot. Therefore it would cost north of about $2M for that bridge alone. Pickerel Cove will require about an 800' bridge so something north of $1.4M. Just saying...

Jetskier:cool:

Severance Rd to Hilliard Rd.
 

That's a new one! SB/LB is all for the Parade Road to Hilliard Rd route, which comprise of a steep hill that most people would think twice about. The Severance Road cut will be a must nicer proposal if the SB/LB will accept it. I bet because Severance Road cuts through their 'back yard', they may not approve it.

The problem is federal and state grants. They are set up for approval along existing or old RR beds. Where is the money going to come from if they change the route?

Also I believe Class 6 roads are privately owned and may require easements from current deeds. This brings up the Durrell Mountain Road and Hoadley Road fiaso. located on the Gilford and Belmont Line. Both roads are Class 6 and used by 4X4 and ATV for years. After a lengthy battle the court agrees the roads transferred to abutting landowners by some statute of limitation and were declared private properties. Hoadley Road is closed. Durrell Mountain is closed to motorized vehicles except snowmobiles.

The Severance Road proposal is a good one, but it looks like it faced a lot of obstacles.

This seems to be some pretty good feedback. Not certain what all the obstacles would be but I sense nothing is insurmountable.

I recently looked at the WOW trail map and one thing I notice is that parking could become a serious problem for the downtown. Assuming the trial is a huge success it may not be far-fetched to assume 500 cars could converge on the downtown and be left parking for four or five hours while people are riding on the trail. That could really create a huge economic downturn in for the downtown. A WOW trail welcome center on Severance could help with such a problem. In the event that the demand for parking exceeded what could be made available near severance there is the additional parking option of Robbie mills Field and Elm Street school.

The welcome center could be operated for profit to benefit the trail and offset the loss of federal funding for the portion that isn't along the tracks.

It would be much cheaper though
 

Baygo - of merit is the fact that the construction of the trail along this proposed route will be much cheaper than along the shore front. It will not involve building bridges or (potentially) dealing with the trestle underpass at the Weirs. In addition, there will be no need for fences or exorbitant insurance
which we know is also of issue.

Jetskier:cool:

Someone needs to contact OSHA about this immediate and imminent threat to public safety!

Another reason to have OSHA visit the SD Boat Club. It sounds like a very dangerous operation for the residents of SD/LB. I would be willing to bet that situational awareness is an insufficient reason to operate the way it was described in the LDS letter.

This is a public safety concern after-all.

LB and SD HOA
 

Reprimanded by LBHOA for posting this link on the Winnipesaukee site. Guess I am not allow to have a different opinion from them. Thanks Jetskier!

Oh Well!!!! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Their web site domain is public and it is a free country to post it. Although they can restrict access to their site and to what the general public can see.

Implied
 

I was told via e mail that the confidentiality is "implied".
:eek::laugh::rolleye1:

I am sure if I agreed 100% with their position it would not have become an issue.

Why does the WOW trail have to be seasonal? It would make a great snowmobile trail as well.

SD/LB Preservation?
 

If they want to preserve the land, why are they building on the land? They should leave it alone and let nature do her thing! Preservation my butt!

You sound like an alarmist fool. OSHA? What makes you think there are occupational safety hazard violations by the employees of the marina? They always seemed to operate safely when I observed them. But please, tell me about your first-hand experiences at the South Down marina that supports your claim.

Ummm...satire.

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Given his other posts on this thread, I don't think it's satire. I think it is more "belligerent keyboard warrior". If I'm wrong, and it's satire, I'm sure he'll be happy to correct me and let us know that his comments/suggestions were all in jest.

Hyperbole in an attempt to point out absurdity. More specifically, OSHA as a hyperbolic suggestion in response to the anti-trail "concern" for safety.

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Osha
 

I remember when OSHA was formed in the mid 70's. I was a grocery clerk at a large supermarket chain. OSHA made a ruling that if you are working with anything that requires you to work above the neckline you are required to wear a hard hat. Well believe it or not there was a time we were stocking shelves with hard hats on!

I have no first hand experience!

My post was just pointing out how ridiculous that particular argument is. (IMO) If you choose to throw "Its a safety issue" at the wall to see if it sticks, so be it; Just be prepared for other to dispute it.

If public safety is an issue with the private marina (as implied) and they can not operate SAFELY within their property, than it is an OSHA issue not a WOW trail issue.

Choose your battles wisely is what I was taught.




You hit the nail on the head.

Sarcasm does not always come across in the written word the way you envision it in your head.

Thank you

Its all Liability insurance Ray. Your place is awesome (Groceries and cold beverages even bags of ice- that would be great), and even better in my golf cart. The one condo closest to you in the SDS development shut it down and put the rock in front of the fence, at least thats what I heard.

Pickerel Cove is a nice spot the railroad tracks that go along the water at that point is probably 8' wide there is no room for a walking trail without heavy material/landfill modification. The current Pickerel Cove train tracks Causeway over the water would need to be filled in to get the 10' required Wow ROW.

Red herring. I live by Trexler's Marina, where on a Saturday morning, the forklift is back-and-forth across the street, folks are checking out of cottages on LI and the trailers in the park so there's that kind of traffic, plus runners, walkers and bikers are on the road, and there's no big issue. It's what constitutes "traffic" here at our lovely lake.
:)

Alternative route rejected in February?
 

Did anyone see this? http://www.laconiadailysun.com/speci...ndini-6-22-615

"They asked if an alternative route (not along the lakeshore) had ever been considered and I was able to explain that, as recently as February, we had suggested an alternative route through their property for consideration, but that this alternative route had been rejected by their executive board."

Nicely worded letter. I especially like the subtle reminders about the state-owned ROW and development plan requirement for the path.

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The engagement occurred when the attorney for SD/LB wanted to reach out one more time to see if a solution could be reached. This was an attempt to avoid litigation. He met with Alan Beetle; Alan proposed a route that crossed Laconia CC (private property and crossed across SD and village private property (and crossed through Outerbridge Drive). A source for Laconia CC indicated that they would not allow the trail on their private property (either).

The proposal from Baygo and SD is to route up Elm Street and across Rt 106. The trail could either go down Severance Drive or continue about 1.2 miles on Rt 106 where it could directly cut into the state forest. There was an engineering study done a while back proposing this as the best route. If the WOW org wants a copy, it can be supplied.

Advantages:

+ Baygo has offered to provide land for a welcome center and parking.
+ Construction costs will be considerably cheaper than building along the frontage...no fence, no bridges etc...
+ The route uses public ROW along roads...no issues.
+ No issue connecting to the Weirs (connect via Hilliard Rd)...don't have to deal with the trestle underpass.
+ The trail would not be operating alongside an active railroad or contending with marinas or traffic crossing to the shore front.
+ The trail can be built even if Federal funding dries up (indications are that it probably will).
+ The environmental impact is minimized

In addition, it has been suggested that the Hobo railroad could be fitted with bike racks and connect segments without building along Paugus Bay (that was also rejected by the WOW Org.) Another viable option is to consider the trail from Severance Drive to the Weirs. This would make Tavern 27 an end point and the welcome center would be at the beginning of a trail segment.

SD/LB have reached out many times over a number of years to try to reach a viable solution that does not involve the frontage or crossing private property. The article miss-characterizes the history of the interaction.

Jetskier :cool:

While I, if living there would like this alternative, I always like to point out the hypocrisy of these bike trails.

All this conservation land that cant be developed because of some who knows frog or beetle or worm, or some wildlife, and also abutting conservation land and you can't do this or that or anything in general. Yet in my town they blaze a bike path/trail right down the middle of conservation land and marsh water area with a bridge 12 feet wide and winding in and right down the marsh area atleast 400 feet long with signs, covered areas and bump outs to sit and giant pilings right into the marsh and everything, just like this alternative would blast right into a forest.

Again I think the path in my area is fine in that area, but funny how someone couldn't put a shed on their own property within 15 feet of the conservation land you abut because some soft shelled spotted turtle lives somewhere on the other side of the marsh land and may visit and be scared by your shed

Hilliard Road
 

For those proposing Hilliard road as an option to connect to the Wiers, have you walked that road, any part of it, narrow, and some major hills, and not well maintained

No dog in this fight, but my guess is that the budget doesn't fit any way they run this trail, it always costs more than they plan....

Like WOW! ....what a great trail!
 

Via the proposed www.wowtrail.org, peddling a bicycle the 9-miles from the Laconia Public Library to the Meredith Public Library, all along the flat, easy to peddle Wow Trail could take maybe one or two hours to do it. One hour on a bicycle is probably doable for many people, plus the flat terrain of the railroad, waterfront right of way works good for bicycles.

Weirs Beach has a beach, and is located right in the middle of the 9-mile long Wow Trail, so that could be a good spot to park your bike and go hit the beach......seems like it's all very doable?

Once the Wow Trail gets built and is one year old, people will be saying ...... Like WOW! ....what a great trail!.....so, how come this wasn't built like 40-years ago ....how come it took so long to get it built........wow!:D

route
 

The latest map I've seen looks like it will not follow the tracks all the way to the weirs, instead detour around pickrel and singing coves (i guess making use of Hilliard Road) Is that correct?http://www.laconiadailysun.com/image...ap-Phase-3.jpg

An article on WOW Trail "ambassadors": http://www.laconiadailysun.com/commu...railambassdors

Last week I decided to try this trail out. First impressions were great. The section from Laconia to Winnisquam was peaceful. You get some views of the lake but most is obstructed by trees which is fine. The section from Laconia to Lakeport was a little more dreary only because you have to use streets a little bit and also see more of the backs of business. Still it was nice to be able to ride that distance without worrying about car traffic.

I was surprised how much the trail was used. I passed several families walking and/or riding, some joggers, some retirees strolling along, some dog walkers and some bicyclists. All in all I'd say I passed about 30 people in the 2 times I used it. Unfortunately we did see a guy passed out at the picnic table at the Lakeport end but it is what it is.

Overall it was nice. If they ever get the section from Lakeport to Meredith built I believe it would be very popular. The total mileage of the current trail isn't much but its still something relaxing to do and burn a few calories.

He wasn't "passed out," he was relaxing "en plein air." Much classier!