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joey2665 09-28-2019 07:17 AM

Done properly with the railroad and the trail coexisting with an esthetically pleasing barrier between the 2 would be a great asset to the towns local businesses and residents.


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thinkxingu 09-28-2019 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joey2665 (Post 320240)
Done properly with the railroad and the trail coexisting with an esthetically pleasing barrier between the 2 would be a great asset to the towns local businesses and residents.


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Just thinking that it would be cool to see the train come through!

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TiltonBB 10-16-2019 06:59 AM

From the Laconia Sun:

Alta Planning calculated a net total benefit of a completed trail over a 20-year period of between $67 million and $89 million.


https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...nt=read%20more

Major 10-16-2019 08:32 AM

$6 Million Per Year!
 
I nearly fell out of my seat laughing! I guess if you're going to go big, you should go real big. I wonder how the former owners of the Holy Grail feel about this estimate, or the dying businesses downtown?

One other point caught my eye. We frequent the Long Bay beach quite a bit, and noticed that this past year there were a lot of riders on the train. It was really noticeable. Certainly not a scientific observation, but I highly doubt there has been a 30% rider decrease the last 4 years.

joey2665 10-16-2019 08:50 AM

Wow trail
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Major (Post 321177)
I nearly fell out of my seat laughing! I guess if you're going to go big, you should go real big. I wonder how the former owners of the Holy Grail feel about this estimate, or the dying businesses downtown?

One other point caught my eye. We frequent the Long Bay beach quite a bit, and noticed that this past year there were a lot of riders on the train. It was really noticeable. Certainly not a scientific observation, but I highly doubt there has been a 30% rider decrease the last 4 years.

I certainly agree with you observation of the rail riders. Too me it also has looked more crowded than in the past.

I do disagree with your downtown business observation using the Holy Grail. They had many issues including food quality, service and over spending on the renovation. I have a Resturant tenant in that area and they are doing quit well.


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Major 10-16-2019 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joey2665 (Post 321178)
I certainly agree with you observation of the rail riders. Too me it also has looked more crowded than in the past.

I do disagree with your downtown business observation using the Holy Grail. They had many issues including food quality, service and over spending on the renovation. I have a Resturant tenant in that area and they are doing quit well.

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I agree about the Holy Grail. However, my point is that the WOW trail, as far as I could tell, went by the Holy Grail. One would think that the huge influx of people using the WOW trail, as represented by its proponents, would have mitigated the issues with the Holy Grail. You know and I know that the users of the WOW trail have absolutely no impact on the downtown businesses. Laconia is not a destination city.

Major 10-16-2019 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joey2665 (Post 321178)
I have a Resturant tenant in that area and they are doing quit well.[/url]

Do you mind sharing the name of the restaurant? You might as well get a free plug!

Patofnaud 10-16-2019 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiltonBB (Post 321171)
From the Laconia Sun:

Alta Planning calculated a net total benefit of a completed trail over a 20-year period of between $67 million and $89 million.


https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...nt=read%20more

A very bias report. While they cite 6M in local revenue generated by the trail, they only cite the 1M in ticket sales by the RR and totally ignored the revenue from all those train riders to Weirs/Merideth.

Anytime the Mount of the Train is running the boulevard is lined with folks shopping/eating/sightseeing/paying for parking/etc....

Also, it's bad when you scrub assets from reality to serve a small vocal crowd. Once it's gone, it's gone. Summer Camps, Trains, Amusement Parks, all things you tell your grandkids about but they never will get to experience. But boy that condo complex and storage facility looks great. :rolleye1:

joey2665 10-16-2019 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major (Post 321180)
Do you mind sharing the name of the restaurant? You might as well get a free plug!

Sorry I would rather not as it obviously would fill everyone in on the building I own and I'd rather it be anonymous. Let's just say it is not far at all from where the Holy Grail was located

joey2665 10-16-2019 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major (Post 321179)
I agree about the Holy Grail. However, my point is that the WOW trail, as far as I could tell, went by the Holy Grail. One would think that the huge influx of people using the WOW trail, as represented by its proponents, would have mitigated the issues with the Holy Grail. You know and I know that the users of the WOW trail have absolutely no impact on the downtown businesses. Laconia is not a destination city.

Laconia can be a destination city but let's leave that as there is a lot involved and to debate about.

I do agree that the WOW trail would not help restaurants in the downtown area. The main users of the trail are people exercising and I do not see bikers joggers and the like stopping in the middle of their workout to eat. Kind of defeats the purpose. :laugh:

However I should state that and as I have said multiple times, I am in favor of the WOW Trail under certain circumstances such as it coexisting with the Scenic Railroad, SD/LB, aesthetically pleasing fencing along the way and without a doubt it must be completed with PRIVATE money via donations, advertising, fundraising and the like NOT public money.

Major 10-16-2019 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joey2665 (Post 321190)
Sorry I would rather not as it obviously would fill everyone in on the building I own and I'd rather it be anonymous. Let's just say it is not far at all from where the Holy Grail was located

I figured it out! My parents went there last week and spoke highly of the new owners and updated space. The food was good too! Good luck!

joey2665 10-16-2019 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major (Post 321192)
I figured it out! My parents went there last week and spoke highly of the new owners and updated space. The food was good too! Good luck!

ding ding ding :) There are more upgrades to come also.

Trail Goer 10-16-2019 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman (Post 311830)
Would you honestly expect the study (paid for by the company that profits from its use) to have any negative connotations?

So Outdoorsman, I now reverse the question back to you. What do you have to say about the gleaming report that all but lays down a red carpet with rose pedal for the WOW Trail?

macbeth 10-16-2019 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trail Goer (Post 321206)
So Outdoorsman, I now reverse the question back to you. What do you have to say about the gleaming report that all but lays down a red carpet with rose pedal for the WOW Trail?

And now I reverse the question back to you. Please answer his question.

LongBay 10-16-2019 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patofnaud (Post 321181)
A very bias report. While they cite 6M in local revenue generated by the trail, they only cite the 1M in ticket sales by the RR and totally ignored the revenue from all those train riders to Weirs/Merideth.

Anytime the Mount of the Train is running the boulevard is lined with folks shopping/eating/sightseeing/paying for parking/etc....

Also, it's bad when you scrub assets from reality to serve a small vocal crowd. Once it's gone, it's gone. Summer Camps, Trains, Amusement Parks, all things you tell your grandkids about but they never will get to experience. But boy that condo complex and storage facility looks great. :rolleye1:

Your absolutely right and the City of Laconia should not pay for the study which us taxpayers paid for. They should make the WOW trail organization pony up and pay the bill.

TiltonBB 10-17-2019 08:27 AM

It looks like there is significant support from the Laconia City Council.

The Laconia Mayor says “The thing that galls us is that this is a public right of way owned by the people of New Hampshire that runs right through the city and it is horribly under-utilized.”

Council member Hamel said. “A lot of good things have been happening in Laconia lately and this could be one more of these attractions that will bring people to the Lakes Region.”

From The Laconia Sun:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...0bd807e04.html

baygo 10-17-2019 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major (Post 321192)
I figured it out! My parents went there last week and spoke highly of the new owners and updated space. The food was good too! Good luck!

New owners? That narrows it down to two places. I haven’t noticed any improvements at the Laconia Local Eatery, so that leaves a place that’s been around over 30 years.

Major 10-17-2019 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiltonBB (Post 321251)
It looks like there is significant support from the Laconia City Council.

The Laconia Mayor says “The thing that galls us is that this is a public right of way owned by the people of New Hampshire that runs right through the city and it is horribly under-utilized.”

Council member Hamel said. “A lot of good things have been happening in Laconia lately and this could be one more of these attractions that will bring people to the Lakes Region.”

From The Laconia Sun:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...0bd807e04.html

You know what galls me, wasting taxpayer money on the Colonial Theater. Wasting taxpayer money on a BS study, where the outcome was obviously predetermined. The revenue numbers are laughable. The construction numbers seem low.

joey2665 10-17-2019 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baygo (Post 321253)
New owners? That narrows it down to two places. I haven’t noticed any improvements at the Laconia Local Eatery, so that leaves a place that’s been around over 30 years.



[emoji4][emoji4][emoji4][emoji4]


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fatlazyless 10-17-2019 10:42 AM

So, if I were to go there today, to the railroad tracks atop the embankment in the vicinity of South Down Shore, accessed via either the Paugus Bay Marina or by the Hilliard Rd-pickerel cove area ..... would I be able to walk along .....or ride a mountain bike ..... along side the tracks on the hard pack soil path that currently exists?

Is it legal as long as you stay close to the unused railroad tracks, and does anyone now use it for daily walking or bicycling? In the winter, the railroad tracks gets used by snowmobiles as a sno-mo trail.

If you are reasonably attired, and do not look like a young male homeless person, can one walk along the state owned railroad embankment with expectation of no interaction such as a local resident complaining about you to the police and the police showing up, or what?

Woodsy 10-17-2019 11:13 AM

FLL...

Because the railroad corridor is considered "Active - Expect a train at any time" if you were walking down the tracks (regardless of how you are dressed) it would be considered trespassing by the LPD. Sometime in December (its usually in the Sun) the tracks are listed as "Temporarily Inactive - No Train" and open for use by snowmobiles.

Woodsy

fatlazyless 10-17-2019 11:27 AM

Despite what you say ..... are there any locals who use the worn path for daily walks .... just because it's there and close to where they live ..... or is it a hard and fast rule that anyone on the path, be they a 9-year old, or an 89-year old .... out for a walk along the lake, on a flat path, about six feet above the water .... gets a police visit that was phoned in by a nearby observer ..... even though the train has stopped running now till next June?

Trail Goer 10-17-2019 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macbeth (Post 321224)
And now I reverse the question back to you. Please answer his question.

I did, see above so what are you getting at?

Trail Goer 10-17-2019 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiltonBB (Post 321251)
The Laconia Mayor says “The thing that galls us is that this is a public right of way owned by the people of New Hampshire that runs right through the city and it is horribly under-utilized.”

From The Laconia Sun:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...0bd807e04.html

This is where the facts get skewed, it's "not a public right of way", it's a railroad right of way owned by the state. There's a big difference.

Another one they keep referring to is: NHDOT, telling the city that "rail takes priority" as a "state law", there's no state law that I can find and I've looked for it. What the state is referring to, is its obligation to abide by common carrier regulations that they agreed to when they purchased the line from the railroad. Like everything else rail related, the states purchase had to be approved by the then Interstate Commerce Commission (long since dissolved by the government) and now under the STB.

Woodsy 10-17-2019 02:03 PM

Trailgoer....

This is the RSA that covers it....

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-ham...ction-228-60-a

Woodsy

Trail Goer 10-17-2019 02:24 PM

Thank you for the correction. I've never heard or seen that website before, I was on the actual State of New Hampshire revised statues page and I was striking out. I found lots of railroad related stuff but nothing that I was looking for.

macbeth 10-17-2019 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trail Goer (Post 321276)
I did, see above so what are you getting at?

Well, I guess you did, must have missed it. My bad !!:)

fatlazyless 10-17-2019 06:59 PM

..... the way to go!
 
Riding in a large, old railroad passenger car, built maybe in the 1950's and watching the scenery is what happens with the Winnipesaukee RR, which runs in the summer months.

REMOVING the single line of rail road TRACKS from the Meredith-Laconia-Belmont-Tilton state owned shoreline embankment and constructing in its' place a 10' or 12' wide, walking, running, bicycling, non-motorized TRAIL, paved with beige colored pebble gravel would be a totally super-duper, year-2020, public health and tourist visitor improvement.

That rail road, summer tourist passenger train is so last century, so 19th century .... while people are living longer, and staying active into their old age ...... thanks to staying active with walking, running and bicycling.

That passenger train basically does nothing for nobody, while a walking-running-pedaling shoreline trail is the way to go.

If you enjoy sitting there and watching the scenery, you can always go drive your car on a scenic tour ...... but a walking trail is so much more healthy for a tourist area happening thing to do.

Lose the train ..... and, go pedal a bicycle! When you is too old to pedal, use a cane ...... walking along with a cane beats the pants off taking that ugly train …. and, ditto that for an ambulatory care walker ….walking along the wow trail when you is age-99 and needing a walker:banana: will also beat the pants off taking that ugly train ride.

Trail Goer 10-18-2019 02:07 PM

So you're okay with putting the Plymouth & Lincoln Railroad, the Lafayette Dinner train and the Lincoln Railroad shops out of business, just so you can have a trail? You sound self centered. The Clark family who owns the railroad and a family who has a done a lot to boost tourism in this state and a family who has created jobs for people, has stated in the report that losing the Winnipesaukee Scenic, would put the whole railroad out of business. How do you look someone in the face and tell them they're losing their job, just so you can have a trail?

joey2665 10-18-2019 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trail Goer (Post 321344)
So you're okay with putting the Plymouth & Lincoln Railroad, the Lafayette Dinner train and the Lincoln Railroad shops out of business, just so you can have a trail? You sound self centered. The Clark family who owns the railroad and a family who has a done a lot to boost tourism in this state and a family who has created jobs for people, has stated in the report that losing the Winnipesaukee Scenic, would put the whole railroad out of business. How do you look someone in the face and tell them they're losing their job, just so you can have a trail?

The Clark family are wonderful people with a first class operation that takes good care of their employees. I would hate to see anything detrimental happen to their business that has done nothing but promote the state and bring in tourists. Given the choice I would pick the rail everytime.

There has to be an amicable way for both to coexist it does not have to be one or the other and again PRIVATE funds not public

LongBay 10-18-2019 08:35 PM

It's interesting how the WOW Report, by the way was paid by the taxpayers of Laconia, failed to properly net out the loss of revenue due to closing down the railroads.

I like riding trains, planes and automobiles. I also like walking, hiking and skiing on trails. It appears there are a lot more miles of trails in the local area to enjoy than miles of railroads. So tell me, why exactly do we need more trails when the NH state, county and town administrators say they don't have enough money to properly fund the existing infrastructure. And why should taxpayers in Laconia be forced to pay for more trails when there are plenty to use right now. Folks just need to ask any outdoor enthusiast who lives here and he or she will be more than happy to tell you where they can be found.

fatlazyless 10-18-2019 09:33 PM

So, why would removing the tracks on the Lake Winnipesaukee embankment effect the railroad operations, the Hobo and Clarke's, up north in Lincoln? The distance between Laconia and Lincoln is about a one hour automobile, road drive, and maybe 45-miles road distance with separate businesses that are unrelated with no paying passengers traveling on a train on the railroad tracks from Lincoln to Laconia, or vise-versa.

There's a mountain short line railroad in North Conway and Bartlett that is separate from the Winni RR in Laconia, and removing the Winni RR tracks would have zero effect on that railroad, the Conway Scenic, up north. And, ditto that for the Cog Railroad that parallels the Jewell hiking trail on the west side of Mt Washington.

Very little of anything in NH, including people or freight moves by rail. Everything moves by car or by truck.

Removing the shoreline railroad tracks, and replacing it with a walking/bicycle path would be a great, local user improvement for Laconia, Meredith, and Belmont.

Lose the tracks, and build a walking/biking trail on the shoreline railroad embankment along Lake Winnipesaukee.

Peddling a bicycle is a healthy exercise that empowers people, while riding a slow moving train and looking at the scenery is good for some locations, but not so good for Lake Winnipesaukee. Biking and walking beats a train ride along the lake ..... even in a summer rain!

Here's the twelve mile long, sand colored, hard packed sand and small pea gravel www.cottonvalleyrailtrail.org in Wolfeboro and to the east through Brookfield and Wakefield..... a railroad line where the rr tracks were removed in some spots and left in place in others, along the twelve miles..... and replaced with a walking and bicycling "rail trail" ...... suggest you look at the photos and picture a similar trail running along Paugus Bay, Weirs Bay, and Meredith Bay on the railroad embankment ...... it makes a beautiful picture for what could be, here, on Lake Winnipesaukee.

SAMIAM 10-19-2019 08:26 AM

Any reason people couldn't walk on sidewalks?There are many beautiful quiet neighborhoods that are perfect for walking

baygo 10-19-2019 09:03 AM

This is a possible alternative to public finance of the trail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbWg...&feature=share

joey2665 10-19-2019 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baygo (Post 321385)
This is a possible alternative to public finance of the trail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbWg...&feature=share

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]. One great movie that would never be made today. [emoji33]


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tis 10-19-2019 09:45 AM

Good idea, Baygo.

Everybody wants all these things because they don't pay for them. That's why our taxes are so high. People have their own little pet project.

Trail Goer 10-19-2019 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 321369)
So, why would removing the tracks on the Lake Winnipesaukee embankment effect the railroad operations, the Hobo and Clarke's, up north in Lincoln? The distance between Laconia and Lincoln is about a one hour automobile, road drive, and maybe 45-miles road distance with separate businesses that are unrelated with no paying passengers traveling on a train on the railroad tracks from Lincoln to Laconia, or vise-versa.

There's a mountain short line railroad in North Conway and Bartlett that is separate from the Winni RR in Laconia, and removing the Winni RR tracks would have zero effect on that railroad, the Conway Scenic, up north. And, ditto that for the Cog Railroad that parallels the Jewell hiking trail on the west side of Mt Washington.

Very little of anything in NH, including people or freight moves by rail. Everything moves by car or by truck.

Removing the shoreline railroad tracks, and replacing it with a walking/bicycle path would be a great, local user improvement for Laconia, Meredith, and Belmont.

Lose the tracks, and build a walking/biking trail on the shoreline railroad embankment along Lake Winnipesaukee.

Peddling a bicycle is a healthy exercise that empowers people, while riding a slow moving train and looking at the scenery is good for some locations, but not so good for Lake Winnipesaukee. Biking and walking beats a train ride along the lake ..... even in a summer rain!

Here's the twelve mile long, sand colored, hard packed sand and small pea gravel www.cottonvalleyrailtrail.org in Wolfeboro and to the east through Brookfield and Wakefield..... a railroad line where the rr tracks were removed in some spots and left in place in others, along the twelve miles..... and replaced with a walking and bicycling "rail trail" ...... suggest you look at the photos and picture a similar trail running along Paugus Bay, Weirs Bay, and Meredith Bay on the railroad embankment ...... it makes a beautiful picture for what could be, here, on Lake Winnipesaukee.

Are you just going to ignore the fact that there's a railroad shop in Lincoln that depends on this rail line for business. They do a lot of work for other railroads and private rail car owners. One of the biggest clients is the MBTA commuter rail. Every year they have work coming in and finished product going out. They just took in another shipment a week or two ago. So some person that makes their living supporting their family working at the Lincoln Shops, your okay with killing their job just so you can have your trail. Go walk somewhere else then, the rail line is active, what part of that do you not understand?

joey2665 10-19-2019 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trail Goer (Post 321399)
Are you just going to ignore the fact that there's a railroad shop in Lincoln that depends on this rail line for business. They do a lot of work for other railroads and private rail car owners. One of the biggest clients is the MBTA commuter rail. Every year they have work coming in and finished product going out. They just took in another shipment a week or two ago. So some person that makes their living supporting their family working at the Lincoln Shops, your okay with killing their job just so you can have your trail. Go walk somewhere else then, the rail line is active, what part of that do you not understand?

Don’t bother he is just being his usual antagonistic self. I don’t think he believes 90% of his posts.


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Wifi-1 10-19-2019 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joey2665 (Post 321402)
Don’t bother he is just being his usual antagonistic self. I don’t think he believes 90% of his posts.


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We hope so, at least :)

fatlazyless 10-20-2019 07:11 AM

So, with the Hobo Railroad railroad car, repair business in Lincoln NH, that has the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority for its' biggest customer, the tracks that run along Paugus Bay in Laconia are a go or no-go rail link between the two?

And, there's no other way for railroad cars to get to Lincoln NH from Massachusetts, such as through Vermont, up the Connecticut River?

Would a railroad car fit on an 8 1/2' x 48' flat bed, truck trailer? How big is a railroad car?


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