So our place is on the stretch of mainland near Blueberry Island (if going straight from Bear), and one of our neighbors says debris from this wreck washed up all along the shoreline there. I checked this weekend on our shore and if it had, it was taken away by that point.

I mean knowing how the lake goes, I'm not sure if I could tell if debris was from this specific incident versus the usual flotsam and jetsam, especially considering the sizes of the boats involved and the distance. But wondering if anyone else encountered something.

Perhaps the lesson is simply to remember that these things can happen to anyone. You can never be so skilled, knowledgeable, or prepared as to completely eliminate the possibility of finding yourself in danger.

(ps. How does one undo a "thank you"? )

Very well said Shore things! Sometimes an "accident" is just that...an accident.

Dan

That doesn't mean there isn't a root cause to the accident that should be figured out and shared with the public to ensure others avoid a similar incident.

Just saying oh an accident is an accident is arguably just making an excuse.

One could even argue this- the two boaters were friends right? Well my friends who I have known for ever would know the path I would take across the lake because they have seen me do it or we have done it together numerous times. Could that have been a factor? The fact they had similar or identical thought of well lets hug this island coast at this point because they both knew it well and did it multiple times? Well then that would be a factor that put them in the same place as the same time because otherwise they would have completely missed each other right?

Memories
 

Hal and his family have been friends and neighbors on East Bear Island for many years. We enjoyed holiday visits to his off-island home where Hal and his family would dress in period clothes, and old Christmas carols would be sung by all, and the best eggnog we've ever had was served. We will miss him. 🐻

Sorry for your loss, Barney Bear--it sounds like Winni lost two great spirits.

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I'm sure at some point these details will come out. It would be prudent to allow law enforcement to do a complete and thorough "official" investigation which doesn't happen quickly as seen on TV. This would include as many unbiased facts based on the evidence gathered, observation of the site where it occurred and whatever information the surviving witness had to offer as well. There is an awful lot of speculation out there as to what could have happened or conclusions being drawn based on limited factual information that while maybe accurate is taken out of context and at face value.

You can bet if there are any lessons to be learned they will be made public in the aftermath of whatever facts come to light following this report, especially since one fact is undisputed. Both of the victims were seasoned operators very familiar with the area.

Boat Crash
 

Max, well said, thank you. Fyi, great letter in recent Weirs Times by Tim Moore(page 2) The only thing left out was the fact that from year to year, Hal was so very consistent.

I did not know them so I cant comment on what type of men they were or how they lived their lives.
All I can say is that the Buddha taught his followers to every single day think that, that day is the day they could die. And to think of all the ways they could lose their life on that day. Illness, accident, snake bite, murder. The many ways that the end could come at any moment.

This kept them grounded to the reality of how impermanent life was,and so at the end, they wouldn't be so surprised.

I didn't know them. But I hope they knew this.

Do you have a link to this article?

https://weirs.com

It's in the 11/21/19 issue on the right side of the home page

The Bear Cam shows Marine Patrol out again this morning running a search grid. A reminder of a tragic accident.

Boat Recovery
 

At 5:00, WMUR had a piece on the recovery of Hal Lyon's boat today just off the north end of Bear Island. The boat is totally destroyed. We miss Hal and Jim. 🐻

Thank you for the post. I think about this tragedy every single day.


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WMUR Story.

Boat looks rough.

https://www.wmur.com/article/2nd-boa...-lake/30188756

It will be interesting to read the NHMP report on the accident.... that looks like a pretty serious impact....

Woodsy

I don't think the impact was as great as some of you may think. It only have to be significant enough to start the sinking process. Through the process involved heading to the bottom, and then of course touching down significant damage could have also happened to the boat that sank.....

If both boats were moving forward at even 20 mph that's still a significant effective collision speed. The damage to the Penn Yan is pretty symmetrical so it seems like a pretty square hit to me. Very sad situation

Your kidding right??... Did you see the bow of that boat?? Touching down on the bottom did not do that!

I agree with steve c that if both boats were going 20 mph or even less, the overall force of that collision is very significant. Similar to hitting a brick wall at 40 mph!

Dan

The WMUR video report used several still shots from my BearCam at www.bearchow.com to show the recovery process. Kind of eerie to see a recovery just a few feet off of my dock.

'Price of Boating after Dark...
 

Check out what the NHMP says at 1:02 in the WMUR recovery video.

https://www.wmur.com/article/2nd-boa...-lake/30188756

Bear cam snap shot

in deference to those closer to the families ……… can we NOT debate the impact speculations in open forum?

Why? This forum had no problem debating the Diamond Is incident impacts etc etc! Double standard?

Bottom line is both guys made mistakes.... the accident report will bear that out! They never just blame 1 guy!

Woodsy

.... dark lights vs bright lights?
 

The new light emitting diode light bulb technology that is slowly replacing the old incandescent light bulbs are much brighter, and much easier to see across the water, especially on a rainy, foggy night.

From my mega-mega-mega-mega multi million dollar waterfront location .... (every year or so, it gets another mega) I watch boats putt-putt past at night, all the time from a distance, and there is a big, big difference in the brightness boat light visibility on the boats, out there.

Sometimes, the old bulbs are not very bright even when brand new, plus the green, red, or white cover gets faded over the years which also lowers the visibility.

Whether you drive a boat or pedal a bicycle, if you go out at night, having some good, strong, bright lights can definitely make the big difference.

I'm sure the families have the same questions the rest of us have. Unfortunately, this accident could be a great teachable moment for the rest of us if all these questions can be answered. Especially since these two gentlemen were so experienced. The fact that this could happen to them could serve the rest of us well, (if we can get the answers to all these questions). It's ok to ask all the questions, just be respectful.

Actually no I am not kidding, Notice that the hull is operated, the deck is already gone..... And I believe was gone as a result of activities the night of the accident.... Once the deck became detached from the hill all kinds of things can happen.

Given the damage seen on the other boat involved, I don't believe the impact was what people want to believe it was..... I don't think the impact separated the deck off the boat.... I think there was damage done during the sinking and recovery effort that has to be factored out to understand the impact of that night....

Once autopsy results and the investigation details made public, we will all be able to understand more about what happened that night.....

All in all this is a very tragic incident.

If you do upgrade your navigation light bulbs to LEDs, be sure to use USCG certified bulbs. Many non-USCG bulbs will cause interference with a VHF radio, rendering it useless. I realize that most don't use VHF radios on the lake, so it may not matter to you, but it might be a big deal for the next owner of your boat that needs help some night and is out of cell range (perhaps somewhere other than Winni) and can't get their VHF to work.

Great point Dave! The interference from LED bulbs can be significant!

I installed LED bulbs in my garage door openers and the range on my remote control was drastically affected. I basically had to be right against the garage door for it to work. It was the bulbs interference causing the problem!

Dan

Off topic slightly: I’ll be swapping out my garage door light bulbs this weekend. I thought it was strange that the range was so short compared to previous openers.

Back on topic: I replaced my bow light with led because the bulbs wear out when it’s inconvenient. Don’t have to hang out over the bow to figure out how to get the light apart or worry that I don’t have an extra bulb. And I have two stern lights in case one is lost over the side.

Same here. The Led bulbs you want for your garage door opener have to have an FCC compliance statement on the box.

Back to the crash...

Is there a possibility that the bow of the boat seen in the video was cut to allow for the extrication of the deceased?

I just wanted to chime in. First, I'd like to state as all others have here; this was an absolutely devastating tragedy. Imagine a quiet uneventful evening suddenly transformed in an instant, changing lives forever. Secondly. I enlarged and tried to enhance the bow photo image. If I had no idea of the circumstances and saw this photo, I'd say someone took a Sawzall to the bow. (MHO). Third, quick reference to the LED changes; I recently replaced my garage door openers lights ( as Dan did) with LED's only to find the remotes were inoperable. I had to replace them with CFL's to work.

Other news articles indicated that the deck was removed previously by the investigators. The deck contained the light switches and was removed to verify position of the switches and I would guess to check their operation.

Speculation serves little purpose!
 

For the past month Marine Patrol has worked diligently to preserve the physical evidence left behind after this tragic crash. Due to the nature of the incident, unique circumstances and difficult conditions have made this a challenge.

Unfortunately, our society too often demands immediate answers, instant gratification, and timely rewards. If not provided...someone's not doing their job or there is a cover-up in progress! Folks, sometimes things take more time than we all can control.

Many people have offered their thoughts and theories as to the events of November 9th. Faulty GPS, medical conditions, paths of travel, lights, angles, etc., etc. Public speculation has served no purpose in this case. However, it has left loved ones seeking answers to questions that are based solely on ignorant, uninformed statements.

From the inception of this forum I have restrained from commenting on topics related to Marine Patrol as doing so would have only served to fuel meaningless (to me) debate. This case is different. Tonight I must say some of this debate has only served to hurt others. We are trying to get answers for two grieving families. I recognize this forum is the place to exchange ideas, opinions, and even theories related to boating accidents. However, in this case, the genuine intent of some authors has result in unintended reactions.

So moving forward, I ask you to consider calling Marine Patrol if you have FACTUAL information, information specific to the boat occupants, or the boats themselves. That is what will help investigators and the families. Ignorant theories based upon assumed facts serves no legitimate purpose...and in this case, has brought unnecessary pain on to others.

I can assure you that Marine Patrol has remained in contact with the Hanson and Lyon families throughout this investigation. Our highly trained investigators are committed to finding and providing as many answers as the evidence can offer.

For those of you who may have taken offense to my comments, feel free to contact me directly at 227-2110. My plea was not intended to offend you, it was intended to protect those who are grieving.

Thank you,

Tim Dunleavy
Marine Patrol Captain

Thank you Captain!


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It would be very much appreciated if Marine Patrol would give an update as to what is known thus far to end some of the speculation.

I have a different take on Captain Dunleavy's post.
I think it's perfectly normal that people would speculate about what happened and exchange thoughts on what might have caused the accident especially since it involved two experienced and well respected boaters.
I don't recall him responding in such a fashion (calling posters ignorant" when everyone was discussing the two other fatal accidents in previous years.
It wasn't a criminal matter and everyone was respectful to the families so I just don't understand what seemed to be such an angry response. I find it a little improper from a public official.
After all the thanks he got.....I'll probably get blasted but just my take on it.

Curious as to why Marine Patrol felt it necessary to speak up in this particular instance. Where were you when the Diamond Island accident occurred as there were far more pages upon pages of speculation here in this forum than in this instance. There were deaths and grieving families in that accident as well....why the double standard??

To me, the point is that the conjecture is apparently causing additional pain to the families of those involved. Regardless of what makes or doesn’t make this different than past examples, I hope forum members respect the request,and assume positive intent from Captain Dunleavy.


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Just "speculation" on my part but maybe MP just wanted to let everyone know that family members of the victims are aware of and likely reading this very thread. For all I know some may be forum members that have actually participated.

I do not believe the intended purpose is to squelch discussion folks, rather acknowledgement of who is reading this, the reactions from some statements made and consider what or how something is said moving forward with that in mind. I don't think it inappropriate for a public official in this capacity to make such a statement. Is it really that abhorrent to some that Mr. Dunleavy show a little empathy for the families of the victims here at this time? That's pretty heartless if you think so.

I also don't see this at all as a double standard. Whos to say following those other investigations the fact wildly speculating conversations on a forum like this going unaddressed wasn't flagged as something that needs to be in the future if or when deemed appropriate?

I applaud the efforts of Marine Patrol and all other agencies participating in this investigation. Answers will come in due time.