Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 150675)

Here's my 2-cents. After this bill gets voted down in the legislative process, the 'Safe Boaters of New Hampshire' should rename themselves the 'Speedy Boaters of New Hampshire' to be honest.

Originally Posted by Dave R (Post 150678)

I'm a member and I don't have a fast boat. I bet I'm in the majority in that regard within SBONH.

Originally Posted by Woodsy (Post 150682)

Why can there not be any COMPROMISE?? Its like the western front in WWI... Both sides seem dug in and unwilling to budge!

I have no problem with a nighttime limit because thats when ALL of the accidents cited by WINNFABS have occured!

I have a problem with a daytime limit because there is ABSOLUTELY NO DATA WHATSOEVER to show that its necessary! No accidents! No anything! Just anecdotal stories about how the guy went by me too close and too fast! We all have stories like that! Because I like to putt around the lake, I have stories like that involving every kind of boat!

We need to find a compromise that we can all live with so we can put this issue to rest once and for all! The divisiveness on the lake is acidic!

Woodsy

Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 150679)

To a casual observer, the SBONH's preliminary efforts just seemed like window dressing that was a lead-up to their #1 true intent of repealing the boat speed limits.

Originally Posted by Dave R (Post 150678)

I'm a member and I don't have a fast boat. I bet I'm in the majority in that regard within SBONH.

Originally Posted by Woodsy (Post 150682)

Why can there not be any COMPROMISE?? Its like the western front in WWI... Both sides seem dug in and unwilling to budge.
Woodsy

Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 150756)

Lake Winnipesaukee already has a no-limit speed zone.....and it is named Lake Winnisquam......go figure?

Originally Posted by Dave R (Post 150712)

I eagerly joined SBONH but was never interested in having any involvement with NHRBA. In hindsight, I think I chose well...

Originally Posted by lawn psycho (Post 150377)

Here's one of a bizillion tidbits of information that I could link. I'm sure NH has something similar. http://www-heb.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/pub.../moorage_e.pdf
A boathouse and covered dock is simply stealing from the lake as that area is totally shaded. Keep spewing your venom about how everyone else is raining on your parade while you're the bigger part of the problem. Too busy to play scientist right now.

Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 150850)

Today's February 18 www.laconiadailysun.com has a page 5 letter to the editor from the N H Camp Director's Association that strongly supports the 45/30 speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee and is a well written and intelligent letter.

The local newspapers have had quite a number of speed limits letters of late from a variety of people.

I know that Massachusetts has a state-wide boat speed limit of either 40 or 45, but here in NH the speed limit has been a lake-by-lake decision driven by local people. So, if Lake Winnisquam, the state's 3rd largest lake, wants a speed limit similar to Squam or Winnipesaukee, it would have to be locally putt-putt-putted.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second (Post 150829)

:confused: Your "documentation" concerns the ocean's marine environment in Canada. :eek2:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander (Post 150506)

Below is a quote from David Barrett the head of the New Hampshire Marine Patrol and a long time opponent of speed limits. He is an "official" and he is quoting "data". Therefore there IS official data. I guess you did not educate yourself well enough.

Over the past 10 years, Barrett said, there have been three boating deaths attributed to speed.

Originally Posted by Woodsy (Post 150682)

Why can there not be any COMPROMISE?? Its like the western front in WWI... Both sides seem dug in and unwilling to budge!

I have no problem with a nighttime limit because thats when ALL of the accidents cited by WINNFABS have occured!

I have a problem with a daytime limit because there is ABSOLUTELY NO DATA WHATSOEVER to show that its necessary! No accidents! No anything! Just anecdotal stories about how the guy went by me too close and too fast! We all have stories like that! Because I like to putt around the lake, I have stories like that involving every kind of boat!

We need to find a compromise that we can all live with so we can put this issue to rest once and for all! The divisiveness on the lake is acidic!

Woodsy

Originally Posted by Acres per Second (Post 150947)

Could this 2008 "incident" have been one of those three fatalities?

:o (Sorry for the "all-caps", but that's how the article was posted.)

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot (Post 150952)

Here's a compromise proposal: How about modifying the safe passage law? (You know, the law that's already on the books requiring 150' distance between the boat and any shore, swimraft, dock, swimmer, another boat, etc., when said boat is traveling more than headway speed.) Let's modify this law to state that any boat going over 45mph (this seems to be the trigger point according to speed limit supporters) be required to double the current 150' buffer and maintain a 300' distance between the boat and any shore, swimraft, dock, swimmer, another boat, etc. This is a distance of a football field and should be a welcome compromise from both sides. What say you speed limit supporters? Are you willing to consider this compromise or is it all or nothing for you? Let's hear it.

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot (Post 150921)

Well written and intelligent? I beg to differ. "Our camps are protective cocoons for their positive skills, experiences and memories." Really? Is it beneficial to keep kids in cocoons instead of letting them experience the real world in a positive light. These camps are using scare tactics to promote support for the speed limit - nothing more. The kids are pawns and the camps should be ashamed for disseminating such trash. Keep digging the hole...you'll soon be to China. :laugh:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander (Post 150956)

The New Hampshire Camp Directors Association represents 180 camps in the state. They voted unanimously to support speed limits, but what do they know.
....
Tell me again why these camp directors don't have a clue? One would think they are fairly knowledgeable about safety, boating, the environment etc..

Originally Posted by Bear Islander (Post 150956)

The New Hampshire Camp Directors Association represents 180 camps in the state. They voted unanimously to support speed limits, but what do they know.

You take one comment out of context and criticize it. They use their campers as "pawns" and "camps should be ashamed for disseminating such trash". Then in the next post you wonder why speed limit supporters are unwilling to talk compromise.

Funny how you never want to talk compromise when you think you have the votes in the legislature.

Tell me again why these camp directors don't have a clue? One would think they are fairly knowledgeable about safety, boating, the environment etc..

Originally Posted by Bear Islander (Post 150956)

The New Hampshire Camp Directors Association represents 180 camps in the state. They voted unanimously to support speed limits, but what do they know.

You take one comment out of context and criticize it. They use their campers as "pawns" and "camps should be ashamed for disseminating such trash". Then in the next post you wonder why speed limit supporters are unwilling to talk compromise.

Funny how you never want to talk compromise when you think you have the votes in the legislature.

Tell me again why these camp directors don't have a clue? One would think they are fairly knowledgeable about safety, boating, the environment etc..

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot (Post 150988)

A typical knee-jerk reaction: "Comments taken out of context". I'm all for compromise but you guys want it your way and only your way. This lake is big enough for everyone to enjoy as they wish, but the camps, kayakers, sailboaters and other bands of elitists have pushed this way over the edge - again, under the auspices of "safety". That's the biggest red herring I've ever seen.

Originally Posted by Bear Islander (Post 150997)

I have been pushing for a compromise for years. That was back when the watchword on the anti-SL side was "NO LIMITS". Kind of hard to compromise with that. But I tried, check out this post from more than three years ago. And there are lots more.


http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...oads#post62946

Originally Posted by lawn psycho (Post 151104)

Does anyone have the data showing the speeds that tickets were issued by MP for 2010?

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 149617)

I would think that Mr. Thurston would know a little bit about how Lake Winnipesaukee has changed since the 45/30 speed limit became law.

This well written article is on page 4 of today's LDS:

Something had to change on big lake & speed limit did the trick
To the editor,
An open letter to New Hampshire
citizens:
My name is Jeffrey Thurston. My family and I have operated a marina and boat dealership on Lake Winnipesaukee for the last 39 years. During that time we all have seen boating take on different dimensions in the number, size, and speed at which boats and personal watercraft are operating. Prior to the implementation of the current lakewide 45/30 boating speed limits, it had been “uncomfortable” for many of the people I deal with as customers to go out on Lake Winnipesaukee.
The people who are uncomfortable are the people making bad decisions regarding their own actions. For example:
1. Cutting in front of boats that have the right of way only to have them arrive faster than you anticipated. Did they pay attention in operator licensing class?
2. Riding across the broads in a green kayak wearing a blue life jacket when there is a two foot chop. I think Kayaks should all be required to have one of those flags you see on incumbent bicycles operated on the road.
3. Swimming in the major travel lanes.
4. Thinking that the dotted lines around the markers on lake maps are the only travel lanes.
5. Thinking because they are towing a tube or a skier that they have the right of way and the 150 foot rule does not apply
Someone and something had to change, and that change this past season has been widely noted as the best thing to happen to family boating in a long time.I see that family boating every sunny day I am out. Overloaded boats, no life jackets in site, driver not following boating laws - these are the problems that need to be fixed
As many of you know, Winnipesaukee is comprised of more than 14 bays and over 250 islands. It is not one large bowl of water. It is up to the state to view the lake as a shared resource with emphasis on sustainability and the maximum diversity of users. The state’s own figures show there are more boats on the water today than in the past. As the density increases, it is difficult to imagine that unlimited speed could be tolerated, as long as boats stay an arbitrary 150-ft. apart.So does this mean the family boaters you speak of above that ride by at 35 miles per hour only 50 feet from me are safely operating?
With large off-shore type boats capable of speeds well in excess of 70 mph, 250+hp personal watercraft only 11ft. long, and low-profile fishing boats with 250+hp engines, how can anyone argue with the need to put a cap on how fast an individual boater can operate in the presence of others? This is particularly true when you consider how difficult it is to see some of these smaller PWC and boat types approaching. The argument becomes even more indefensible at night.
In all cases, the important sense of well-being for passengers on a boat subjected to others operating in such a manner is removed. Boat owners complained that the lake had lost its’ “FUN” feel when you were constantly wondering where and when something might come flying out at you and your family. Everyone I know who thinks the lake has lost its fun feel blames it on the speed limit. Is that the legacy New Hampshire wants for their best known lake? I certainly hope not, and I’m confident that a large majority of the public agrees.
This law worked well in New Hampshire these past seasons, as it has in many other states for years.The old law worked well too, it just didn't suite some peoples agendas This speed limits law will not stop ANYONE from boating, but will instill and reinforce a sense of what is proper behavior on the state’s most important waterway. Requiring an operators license was supposed to create proper behavior and it has not stopped the erratic behavior of those who should not be behind the wheel of a boat or any vehicle that goes not operate on a confined area like a road. Only the Legislature can preserve this reality, and we are counting on them to keep sustainable use of Lake Winnipesaukee a treasured achievement. Support the current boating 45/30 speed limits law without any changes by contacting your Senator and Representatives to vote down SB-27.
Jeffrey Thurston, President
Thurston’s Marina
Weirs Beach

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 150309)

It wouldn't surprise me a bit Sue Doe-Nym.

Do you think any of these Go Fast Boaters were being “reasonable and prudent under the existing conditions”?

Do you think that any of these Go Fast Boaters took into consideration the following Coast Guard “RULES” which is written in SB-27

(A) The state of visibility.
(B) The traffic density including concentrations of fishing vessels or any other vessels.
(C) The manageability of the vessel with special reference to stopping distance and turning ability in the prevailing conditions.
(E) The state of wind, sea, and current, and the proximity of navigational hazards.
(F) The draft in relation to the available depth of water.

Originally Posted by MAXUM (Post 153321)

I say banning rentals is much more likely to have an affect on the overall safety of the lake.

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja (Post 153404)

I still think the state should be licensing boat operators, just like they license operators of motorcycles, cars, trucks and airplane pilots, etc!

Originally Posted by MAXUM (Post 153321)

Well isn't that something, Thurston complaining about the safety of the lake and the speed limit. Hey how many times have I seen some yahoo outfitted with one of his rental boats, out there on the lake doing things far more dangerous and foolish than just going "fast"?

I say banning rentals is much more likely to have an affect on the overall safety of the lake.

Originally Posted by NoBozo (Post 153459)

I don't disagree with your premise, but a License to fly a plane is a whole different category. The State has nothing to do with getting a Pilots License. The FAA (Federal) requires prospective pilots to get flight instruction from FAA Certified Flight Instructors AND have a minimum number of flight hours AND pass a written exam AND take a rigerous "Behind The Wheel" exam with an FAA Check Pilot...NOT your flight instructor, before being issued a License.

The FAA minimum number of Flight hours required is 40, BUT in Real Life it usually runs better than 60 hours.....IN The Plane. BTW: That is for a Full Fledged Pilots License..not the so called "Sports Pilot License" which is a relatively new category which carries numerous RESTRICTIONS. :look: NB

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja (Post 153481)

Like Seaplane Pilot said, has a marina ever flunked someone with money to spend? :)

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot (Post 153463)

Not just Thurston's but Fay's as well. Seriously, I think it's time for a bill to require a full Boater's Education Certificate to rent a boat (or PWC), not just a 10 second "quiz" given by the renter himself. (I wonder how many have actually "flunked" the renter, passing up the nice rental fee? I don't feel safe on the lake with these loose-cannon, unexperienced, uneducated renters operating boats. What do you say Senator Forrester? Senator Bradley? Hello...are you out there?

Originally Posted by MAXUM (Post 153636)

Wanna bet that more citations were issued to operators of rental boats for various infractions compared to the total number of speeding tickets handed out to ALL boaters?

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 153741)

I think you are onto something with that suggestion!
Now is the time to get a bill going that will require a full Boater's Education Certificate to rent a boat (or PWC). No more of this 14 Day Temporary NH Safe Boating Certificate that is administrated by crooks who only want the money and could care less about the safety of honest hard working safe boaters. I’ll bet that there wasn’t one customer of these dishonest boat rental businesses that passed that test. We’ve got to get them off our Lakes before it’s too late. I’m sure statistics will show that the majority of tickets issued by the MP are to people who only had a temporary certificate.
Hey, how many times have I seen some yahoo outfitted with one of Shep Brown’s Boat Basin rental boats out there on the lake doing things far more dangerous and foolish than just going "fast"? I am going to pass the word around to boycott any boat rental business that allows anyone to rent a boat to someone who only has a temporary certificate. I’ll make sure to tell them that IMHO Shep Brown’ Boat Basin is the biggest offender.