Railroad coaches can be moved via the road, however the logistics and expense of doing so are much more cumbersome.

It is costly and far more labor intensive.

There's only one railroad connection to the shops in Lincoln, the other connection that came down from Woodsville, NH via Plymouth, NH has been gone for decades. I work in the transportation industry and I can tell you shipping railroad cars over the road would be cost prohibitive for them, it would make their rates non competitive. Moving railroad equipment requires ODL permits and possibly require escorts depending on what it is they are hauling, there's also road restrictions as most roads can't handle the length and size and most bridges and culverts, can't handle the weight.

🚞 🚃
 

I believe that the subway cars from Bombardier in Canada, are partially assembled in the USA to satisfy the Buy America requirement for a Federal subsidy, and then delivered to Boston by rail. 🐻

My concern about the extension of the WOW trail to The Weirs, besides the destruction of the train tracks, would be the possibility of drawing the rif raf from downtown into the area, thus increasing crime.

Why must the rif raf as you call them be restricted to downtown the whole city should be able to enjoy their presence and the value each brings to the community! Just as the city council intended


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Ha ha ha ha ha!

The rif raf do not need the trail they already walk down the tracks.


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Good point. I didn’t think of that.

The "rif raf" you guys are snidely disparaging are presumably "locals" who for whatever reason never got got traction in their lives.

Might it not be best to focus on inclusion as opposed to exclusion?

"The poor you will always have with you:" --- J. Christ

One earmark of a truly enlightened society is how its advantaged members treat its disadvantaged members.

Just sayin'.

I had a home in Long Bay for 12 years and it was broken into by such rif raf that entered the community from the tracks. Not only did they steal the tv and computer they are all the food in the fridge.

This is why in many WOW Trail discussions I always disagreed with the argument that the trail would provide easier access. They already have easy access.

But you have to admit a paved trail will make it somewhat easier, right? The tracks are kind of a pain to walk on. Plus, they’re nearly impossible to bike on.


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My experience with these people is if there is a will there is a way. Paved or not.


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90-inches ....... width of Ford police suv including outside mirrors


54.5-inches ....... width across railroad rails


144-inches or 12-feet ...... width of highway lane on Route 93

...............

So the wow trail could be a 10' (120") or 12' (144") wide road in order to fit the police cars, and fire trucks which are wider at 104" plus mirrors. Fire trucks are close to 10' wide with their mirrors.
...............

There's simply no way the wow trail can get built without removing the railroad tracks, so the wow trail is a dead issue. It's pretty simple, there's not enough width, there, with the railroad tracks remaining in place.

If people want to tour the shoreline, they should get a jetski, and do it at 45-mph with no worry about hitting a homeless person who is trespass walking down the railroad tracks.
..............

How's this sound for a battle cry coming from the neighbors with homes close to Paugus Bay and the railroad embankment: 54.5" or fight! ..... (say it loud!) ...... a reference to the rails which are 54.5" across ...... much better living with the 54.5" rails .... than living with a 120" wide, rail trail ..... 54.5" or fight! ....... hooo-yuuh! .... :laugh:

Sort of sounds like ..... the 54 40 battle cry for the 1844 Oregon boundary dispute .... or something!

And, wood railroad ties are usually about 8'6" long x 9" wide x 7" high, so removing the rail road tracks and rail road ties would free up 8'6" of nice flat compacted surface area and go a long way to facilitate a ten foot wide rail trail. Today, everything moves on inflated rubber tires as opposed to steel train wheels. Steel train wheels started going out of use in the Unites States, a hundred years ago, and got replaced by cars and trucks with rubber inflated tires.

Lose those ugly train tracks, and build a rail trail for walking, running, pedaling, and using those four legged, ambulatory care walkers with the tennis balls for feet.

If a new rail trail were constructed to be same width as a highway lane, 12', then it certainly seems that a guided tour, trolley tour bus vehicle could be used to function similar to the Winni Railroad and replace the large railroad cars with a Winni trolley bus tour that seats about 25-people per bus and driven/informed by the driver similar to the duck tour boats. Or, possibly going with duck tour boats as well ..... a 12' wide rail trail really opens the Winni waterfront to a lot of new uses.

Regarding the access of evil doers via tracks vs via WOW Trail:

Either route is easy but if one's presence on the tracks were to be questioned any answer would still be illegal with the exception of the designated crossings.

One's presence on the WOW Trail could easily be explained away by "we are taking a walk".

I either case carrying a TV down the ROW might arouse some extra suspicion.

Ummm- no. We are talking about drug dealers and addicts and criminals. Not simply people of lesser means. You can "include" all those criminals at your place. I don't want them at mine.

Local or not doesn’t matter we are talking about criminals and addicts not just the poor homeless or unemployed.

Maybe if 3 of these rif raf walked off the railroad tracks broke in stole and damaged your home like they did to me you might think differently.


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I'd certainly want to prosecute and punish anyone, from any background, who burglarized my home: that is inexcusable behavior by anyone, whoever they are.

But that's not the issue.

The issue is how you and others here are singling out, judging, and condemning a class of your fellow Americans based upon fear and quasi-hysteria, ala Fox News.

Sure, many addicts are criminals, but not all are; just as many non-addicts, folks from privileged backgrounds, turn to crime.

Criminal behavior cuts across all socio-economic lines: always has, always will.

No,the WOW trail isn't the real problem: our society and its failure to engage all of its members is the problem.

You want to end homelessness, end addiction?

Give people meaning and something to live for.

Easy to say, hard to do, but that is what it would take.

Exactly how does inclusion work? I love it when liberals cite or refer to Jesus, all while trying to completely remove religion from society to create the perfect secular state. Plus your quote is completely misguided. There is a huge difference between being poor and being a drug dealer and a drug user. My grandparents were poor, but they lived with dignity and grace.


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Huge Contributer's
 

Local businesses, Patrick's for one, and all!!

Wrong on both counts: I'm liberal, I vote Libertarian: always.

I'm not religious, I'm an atheist.

Not a big fan of Patrick’s or the WOW trail!


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So, if the 8'6" railroad ties and steel railroad rails spaced 54.5" wide were removed, and replaced with a 12' wide, beige colored, sand and small pea stone gravel roadway, it could be a multi use trail used by walkers, runners, and bicycle riders.

12' is the same width as a highway lane on Route 93, and a 12' wide WOW Trail could get used by walkers, runners, bicyclers, as well as a tour bus trolley, guided talking tour where the driver talks and drives at the same time. 12' width could be used by both pedestrians and slow moving, 10-mph tour trolley buses that are 8' wide and hold 25-passengers. Maybe a duck amphibious vehicle, traveling by road and returning by water, similar to the Boston duck tours is possible.

As a 12' roadway it could get snow removed/plowed in the winter so the walking and bicycling could continue during the winter months.

Walking and pedaling a bicycle would make the Paugus Bay embankment available for use to the public, and could bring people as visiting tourists to Laconia to use it.

Just imagine a 9-mile WOW Trail like this that runs from Lakeport to Weirs Beach to Meredith, where it is now a state owned railroad embankment, along Lake Winnipesaukee, with a single railroad track, originally built in 1885. Is better to remove the railroad tracks and ties, and build a multi use road/trail.

Oops, meant "I am NOT liberall..."

Why am I not surprised. (By the way how am I wrong in calling you a liberal when you say “I’m liberal!”)


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I’m a little confused. Libertarians and liberals are 2 different philosophies and atheists certainly do not quite Jesus.


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Certainly agree with you here. Distraction by argument (or meaningless babbling), that is the liberal way.

There is NO length the "self entitled" ppl at SD/LB will go to just to get their way.

“As some of you may know, I’ve taken a no-sanctuary-city pledge,” Spanos said at the public library forum sponsored by the Long Bay and South Down homeowners associations.

WOW Trail

The candidates took several questions about a proposal to extend the WOW Trail from Lakeport to The Weirs. The extension would be in a railroad corridor that skirts Paugus Bay on one side and the gated communities of Long Bay and South Down on the other.

Some residents have said it could pose safety concerns when they move their boats down to the water. Some fear privacy invasion and crime.

Hosmer said he supports extending the trail if a compromise could be found that would deal with the concerns of all involved.

“The last place anybody wants to end up is in court,” he said. “I would seek, if I were the mayor, to play an active role as facilitator because mediation is less expensive than litigation.”

Spanos also said he would make it a priority to bring the homeowners and trail proponents together.

“I think the WOW Trail is a great idea, and I’d certainly like to see it extended to The Weirs,” he said. “It makes sense for the tourism industry up here, but not over any neighbor’s objections.”

NO PAC monies involved here..... :rolleye1::rolleye1:

Wow trail
 

Who wants to bet that Mr. V is not a libertarian? He seems like a big government kind of guy!


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My typo: I am NOT a liberal, at least I don't think of myself as such.

I ALWAYS vote for any listed Libertarian candidate.

I'm fiscally conservative and socially somewhat tolerant: let people be who and what they want so long as it doesn't interfere with me and mine; I don't vote Republican as I believe in a woman's right to choose.

I don't vote democrat as they're to free with the public coffers.

My beliefs are not black and white and do not fit the prescribed boundaries of the two major parties.

Atheist dont believe in God but most agree that there was a rabbi called Yeshua, A/K/A Jesus. Theres enough talk about him to think that he existed.
On the other hand, there is no proof of a God who wants or needs to be worshiped.

Just saying

The only part of the WOW trail I've been on was behind Autoswerve. Whenever I had my free oil change I would walk down back to the WoW trail. gotta say, there were some iffy characters hanging out down there every now and then.
Didn't look like walkers, didn't look like runners, didn't look like bike riders.

Hey Fatlazyless...

Can you post up some more to bring some sanity back to this thread?

Thanks!

LOLOL...

Now that I laughed, it's normal for him to throw some disconnected distraction in.

.... thank you very much for asking.
 

Question: Does a 9-mile long x 12'-wide wow trail, running from Lakeport to Weirs Beach to Meredith in place of the existing single 8'6" wide railroad ties and tracks need to be a paved asphalt surface, or could it be a more natural sand and small pea stone gravel surface?

That is a very good question, and thank you very much for asking. I do not know but think the more natural sand and small pea stone gravel would be a better, more natural fit and look for replacing the existing railroad, single track.

What the 12-mile long www.cottonvalleyrailtrail.org in Wolfeboro and towns to the east has is a sand and small pea stone gravel surface, as opposed to black asphalt. So, apparently the sand and small pea stone is probably doable? It sure looks a lot better than the black asphalt that's the same as a roadway.

Thank you!

On Monday the Laconia City Council, is going to vote on a resolution to have the tracks pulled up infavor for the WOW Trail from Lakeport to Weirs Beach.

For the rest of the article
https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...aba4936a99.htm

In brief, the details of today's LaDaSun article basically say the Wow Trail will only get constructed if the single, existing railroad track is removed.

The existing railroad track including the wood ties are about nine feet wide, and the Wow Trail will be about twelve feet wide.

With the single track removed, it also removes the need for an ugly safety fence that would hinder the view out to the lake ….. so, that's a huge plus!

Building the Wow Trail is big for building the future of Laconia!

How do the railroad stake holders respond?

How does the state respond?

This seems like a line in the sand will be drawn.

Yes, seems like a permanent Wow Trail killer, impossible problem to overcome .... and Colin Van Ostern actually came so very close to winning that Nov, 2016 governor's race ..... boo-hoo.

Are you familiar with those tour bus trolleys which are basically a bus that's made to look like an old fashioned trolley train? Well ...... a tour bus trolley obviously has a tour bus trolley driver because it is basically a motor vehicle similar to a car or a truck with rubber tires, and the driver can double as a tour guide announcer as she/he drives the trolley.

So, with a twelve foot wide Wow Trail roadway, there's enough room for an eight foot wide trolley moving along at a slow 9-mph pace to share the roadway with the pedestrians, runners, roller skaters, and non-motorized bicyclists ...... especially if there's an extra three foot shoulder space in addition to the twelve foot wide Wow Trail.

Something to think about; reconstructing the railroad track by removing the steel rails, digging out the wood ties, and constructing a smooth 12'-wide roadway, used by pedestrians, runners, roller skaters, non-motorized bicycles, and 8'-wide tour bus trolleys with tourists on board, out for a ride, just like that old railroad train, except without the railroad tracks.

Sounds like a job for a John Deere loader with a back hoe!

By going from steel wheel trains, to rubber tire trolleys, it opens up that very scenic, state owned Winnipesaukee embankment to new local and tourist-visitor use.

Read the last few posts and it piqued my interest. I’m not going back to read all 200 posts so I apologize in advance if my post is duplicative.

The issue for rail trail conversions is really, who owned the right of way and are the rails still “active”.

First, it is very difficult under federal law to “take” an active rail right of way. This has been trace to laws written in the 1800’s when rail was king. Seems to me that that if they are running trains along Paugus Bay they are still active.

Second, there is the ownership issue. Most older rail right of ways were created by a federal law from 1875 that granted rail companies an easement over a parcel of property. A 2014 US Supreme Court ruling said that this easement was removed when the track was abandoned and “ownership” reverted to the property owner. This ruling is being used by abutter groups (including one in my town) to contest the right of the state to transfer (or lease) a right of way that they acquired from a RR company to municipalities for rail trails. Not being a lawyer, I’m guessing that the theory is that at the moment the rails are abandoned (removed) the easement is voided and the RR company or state loses any right to transfer or lease. Don’t know if any of these cases have reached final decision. It will be interesting to follow.


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Indeed
 

I think that you have hit on some of the issues:

1. The original taking of the property was explicitly for railroad use and it was done at a point in time where the B&M railroad did not have the money to replace washed out track on the segment north of Meredith.
2. Consideration to repurpose a rail line typically requires a formal abandonment (as pointed out) wherein the rail line has not been used for a period of time. The current rail line is actively used and there are federally issued licenses with rights of renewal.
3. According to Stone Consulting, the current rail line supports about $17.4 million of economic activity annually. The Alta study indicated about $12.4 million in economic benefit annually and a significant portion of that was "health" oriented which is not comparable.

It simply does not make any sense to "take" the rail line for special interest reasons. This is particularly so, based upon the fact that all indications are that it will be a negative economic impact relative to the current use.

Jetskier :cool: