Originally Posted by MikeF-NH (Post 324803)

For what its worth...I have been following this thread and have no affiliation with the camp or Mr Owen so this is pure observation....
1.) I have no doubts that Mr Owen has a checkered past with individuals on this board OR even with commercial interests around the lake. I am not so naive as to assume that developers have anything other than their own financial interests in mind.
2.) I have done some rudimentary research including reviewing the Camp Belknap website and I see nothing indicating that the camp has a legal or other claim to Farm Island. From my vantage..they appear to be squatting there.
3.) My boys enjoyed years at summer camps and I 100% support what these camps do for our boys...HOWEVER...just because of the opportunities these camps give to boys does not give them the right to squat on any land (imagine these boys playing softball in your front yard and your neighbors saying "you're a jerk for not letting them have good clean fun").
4.) these camps are about money also (or they wouldn't be in business) so lets not associate them with charity.
5.) this should be a legal question and not about how an unpopular person here benefits. The town should be deciding if the camp has a legal right to be there and if not...they should be held accountable to return the land to its pristine state and not use the property in the future. If they are legally using the property then Mr Owen should relax and watch the boys enjoying the resource.
6.) it is irrelevant if Mr Owen wants the land for his family or to subdivide as long as he has the legal right to subdivide.

All the final decisions should be made by the town and zoning board and perhaps the court systems. I guess my point is "boys should be allowed to have a good time" is not reason to allow for trespass or for any organization to be allowed to squat on private property. Them doing this previously is not license for them to continue.....all IMHO of course. I have the advantage in this situation of not knowing Mr Owen or having any interest in property on that part of the lake so this is just unbiased observation. I will go back to minding my own business.

Originally Posted by MikeF-NH (Post 324803)

For what its worth...I have been following this thread and have no affiliation with the camp or Mr Owen so this is pure observation....
1.) I have no doubts that Mr Owen has a checkered past with individuals on this board OR even with commercial interests around the lake. I am not so naive as to assume that developers have anything other than their own financial interests in mind.
2.) I have done some rudimentary research including reviewing the Camp Belknap website and I see nothing indicating that the camp has a legal or other claim to Farm Island. From my vantage..they appear to be squatting there.
3.) My boys enjoyed years at summer camps and I 100% support what these camps do for our boys...HOWEVER...just because of the opportunities these camps give to boys does not give them the right to squat on any land (imagine these boys playing softball in your front yard and your neighbors saying "you're a jerk for not letting them have good clean fun").
4.) these camps are about money also (or they wouldn't be in business) so lets not associate them with charity.
5.) this should be a legal question and not about how an unpopular person here benefits. The town should be deciding if the camp has a legal right to be there and if not...they should be held accountable to return the land to its pristine state and not use the property in the future. If they are legally using the property then Mr Owen should relax and watch the boys enjoying the resource.
6.) it is irrelevant if Mr Owen wants the land for his family or to subdivide as long as he has the legal right to subdivide.

All the final decisions should be made by the town and zoning board and perhaps the court systems. I guess my point is "boys should be allowed to have a good time" is not reason to allow for trespass or for any organization to be allowed to squat on private property. Them doing this previously is not license for them to continue.....all IMHO of course. I have the advantage in this situation of not knowing Mr Owen or having any interest in property on that part of the lake so this is just unbiased observation. I will go back to minding my own business.

Originally Posted by thinkxingu (Post 324806)

I thought I'd read that the Y had bought portions of Farm Island some years back? (And then offered to buy the rest at the same time as Owen?)

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Originally Posted by FlyingScot (Post 324820)

The YMCA is not a business, it's a nonprofit dedicated to helping kids/communities. They're lucky if they can just break even each year.

We regularly debate ethical, right vs wrong issues as well as legal points on this forum.

The courts will resolve the legal issues. Until then, it's pretty tough to sympathize with Mr Owens at the expense of the kids.

Originally Posted by MAXUM (Post 324823)

Far as the complaints about the noise generated from camp activities and the kids out there on the lake having a good time, it's just plain in poor taste. For many of these kids this is a chance of a lifetime to have an experience to be at the lake. Shame on anyone who finds this in anyway offensive or better put to "excessive".

Originally Posted by SAB1 (Post 324824)

Correct. The Camp did buy approx. 1/3 of the island a few years ago. They also did build a small building or lean to there where the kids sometimes canoe or kayak to. They sometimes use a Lund rowboat with small outboard on it and anchor it next to the island I assume to move the kids gear back and forth.

Originally Posted by Roy_Hobbs (Post 324848)

There is a small wooden platform the kids sleep on (no walls or anything) To my knowledge that’s the extent of it.

Originally Posted by SAB1 (Post 324852)

It’s definitely more than that.

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy (Post 324979)

Will you put that in the deed?


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Originally Posted by BoatHouse (Post 325007)

So much for "Live free or Die". Seems more like - "Live free, but not near Me"

Originally Posted by Randy Owen (Post 324674)

The Camp Belknap requests states that they use a “leave no trace” experience and that counselors and campers handle human waste. This is not the case and a blatant lie. The smell of urine was intense many weeks after the camp had stopped using Farm Island.

Originally Posted by samosetguy (Post 325031)

I didn't care about this issue until someone started attacking Camp Belknap. I'm 100% in support of Camp Belknap's interests. We need to preserve ways for more people (especially those less fortunate) to enjoy the lake.

Originally Posted by Pineedles (Post 325046)

Although I support Camp Belknap in this and as contributor, please don’t confuse the Camp with other camps that host less privileged kids from inner cities for free. When I attended in the early 60s, my parents paid and I assume it is that way still today.


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Originally Posted by Pineedles (Post 325046)

Although I support Camp Belknap in this and as contributor, please don’t confuse the Camp with other camps that host less privileged kids from inner cities for free. When I attended in the early 60s, my parents paid and I assume it is that way still today.


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Originally Posted by Roy_Hobbs (Post 325053)

While there are obviously plenty of paying campers, according to their last annual report they provided a bit over $200k in scholarship assistance in 2018 for campers who otherwise wouldn’t be able to afford to attend.

Originally Posted by CowTimes (Post 326522)

Does anyone know where things stand today on the sale of Farm Island? It appears to still be listed as sale pending. I had thought the prospective purchaser had posted on this forum that he was going forward with the sale irrespective of what happens with the appeal of the planning board decision, which I took to mean he was waiving that development contingency in the sale. But I can’t find that post anymore (deleted? also possible that my memory is off). If that were true, I would have thought it would have closed already. It is also odd that it was publicly disclosed that the buyer’s contingency was to have expired months ago (the allegation was that Camp Belknap’s challenges at the planning board were to just delay the transaction past the expiration of the contingency so the Camp could swoop in and purchase the property).

Originally Posted by codeman671 (Post 326604)

I found this on craigslist today by chance:

https://nh.craigslist.org/reo/d/manc...042355886.html

Originally Posted by Descant (Post 326607)

1.1 acres? 405 frontage means about 100 feet deep. The first 50 feet of frontage is un-buildable. Then maybe 10-12 feet on the front for a deck or porch. There must be a setback from the back lot line. 20 feet? That doesn't give you much flexibility in locating a structure, especially if the septic is already there (or just designed) for a 4 BR house. What am I missing?

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy (Post 326866)

Was looking at island RE property prices and saw Farm Island 13.3 acres for sale for about 1.5m on “Lake & Island Properties” site. Has the deal w/Owen fallen through?


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Originally Posted by TiltonBB (Post 326893)

It is possible that the Purchase and Sale agreement has a contingency in it. He could be waiting for certain approvals before closing to make sure he can do what he wants with the property.

No info. Just a guess!

Originally Posted by chasedawg (Post 326932)

Good guess. Closing won't happen until after the courts ruling. Court date is sometime in March.

Originally Posted by CowTimes (Post 326938)

There has to be something else going on here. The buyer publicly disclosed at a planning board meeting that the contingency for the regulatory approvals was to have expired a month or two ago. Sellers will typically have expiration dates for the contingency so they are not beholden to the buyer if things, as here, get held up for whatever reason. I thought Camp Belknap would have been under contract already since they were supposedly ready and willing to offer a higher price once the current deal’s contingency period expired.

Originally Posted by CowTimes (Post 326938)

There has to be something else going on here. The buyer publicly disclosed at a planning board meeting that the contingency for the regulatory approvals was to have expired a month or two ago. Sellers will typically have expiration dates for the contingency so they are not beholden to the buyer if things, as here, get held up for whatever reason. I thought Camp Belknap would have been under contract already since they were supposedly ready and willing to offer a higher price once the current deal’s contingency period expired.

Originally Posted by chasedawg (Post 326944)

The reason: They do not want to sell Farm Island to the Camp. Yes they did back in 2010 but not again.

Originally Posted by Descant (Post 326946)

Ahh. So Camp Belknap needs a godfathjer to buy and resell to them. Why is this all taking so long? They must have some alumni (group) capable of such a transaction. Maybe this is going on and we just don't see it?

Originally Posted by Descant (Post 326946)

Ahh. So Camp Belknap needs a godfathjer to buy and resell to them. Why is this all taking so long? They must have some alumni (group) capable of such a transaction. Maybe this is going on and we just don't see it?