I'd be rather upset, but IMO, one should only take out a pistol when one intends to use it. I don't think trespassing and boorish behavior warrant deadly force, so I would not brandish a pistol unless I though there was some danger.

That said, the penalty in this case is WAY too severe for the crime, I hope he gets out soon.

Worst case scenario......July 30 2001, Meredith NH......Robert Whitney, age 58, former city councilor of Concord NH.....was found strangled......by Gary Sampson (age aprox 30 ?)......a handgun would probably have been helpfull for him but who really knows....it's conjecture....what might have happened.....but there's no reason why a can of spray mace or just a billy club....or even a broom handle....... could have been just as helpfull to scare off Gary Sampson.....and then you call the police.

Even if you are totally in the right with the law on using a handgun to defend yourself, you probably still run up some serious attorney bills.

Handguns have too many legal issues that the lesser mace or billy club just does not get into......plus if you show a handgun....could be that the next "Gary Sampson" has a handgun too. That was supposedly a totally random murder by a total stranger for no particular reason such as robbery.

I don't have a horse in this race, I've joined late, and I've never owned a gun. But there is one scenario in all this that I've wondered about.

If we forget for the moment the call from the niece, the steps described by Mr. Bird do not seem that unreasonable to me.

If I did own a gun, and I was worried about some crazy looking in my home windows, wouldn't it make sense that if I was going out to check, I would take the safety off the gun in order to be prepared for anything?

Similarly, it seems that it would make equal sense, that I would check and set the safety before re-entering the house to make sure nothing could happen in there.

Again, I'm not a gun owner so I don't know what is taught in gun safety classes. But checking the safety before entering a house seems like it would have been a reasonable and conditioned step for a gun owner.

Yes?

....hey, if anyone tries to break into my place in the middle of the night or something....or set's foot onto my 1/4 acre....all's I have to do is show them my Meredith property tax bill, and that will scare the daylights out of them!


Excuuuuuuuse me Mr Burglar....would you mind kindly taking a look-see at this town tax bill.......:eek::eek::eek:.....egaaaaaddd.....that would have sacred off even a Gary Sampson ....... :coolsm::laugh::coolsm:!

My thought about all of the gun stuff..

If you are going to pull a gun on someone that is on your property or trying to get into your house or trying, or looking like they are trying to hurt you. Shoot them. If you don't kill them, shoot them again until they are dead. It is their word against yours. If they are dead they have no word. And if they were trying to assault you, they should have no word to begin with and belong dead. Very, very dead.

The only reason I would ever raise and point a gun at anyone is to shoot them and kill them. I am going to do my level best to make sure that person does not make it out of my house alive.

That is my theory on home defense. Kill them before they kill you.

A chief of police once told me the same thing.

www.freewardbird.org.... Today, Sunday afternoon out in the sunlight, up at the Meredith roundabout on State Route 3, approximately ten people were demonstrating with various home made signs in support of Ward Bird. All over the area in Meredith and Center Harbor; there's a number of "Free Ward Bird" or "www.freewardbird.org" homemade style signs showing at homes, businesses and one church in Center Harbor next to the post office.

Isn't it GREAT !!
There were groups of friends, neighbors, family and even people whom have never met Ward scattered at various intersections, from the Meredith rotary all the way to the junction of Rt. 16 & 25 both Saturday and Sunday. All willing to take time out of their weekend and stand out in the cold because they believe in Ward and they feel there was an injustice done.
This is what I call Community Spirit !

FREE WARD BIRD

With all the commentary in the media, has there been any comments by jurors from the trial? I wonder what they were thinking when they deliberated and if their opinion changed later when they heard more about that "victim".

Don't make sense------
 

Harris wandered onto Ward's property looking at neighboring land that was listed for sale on March 27, 2006. But 6 months later after her altercation with private property owners, her residence of 15 years is condemned a few doors down from Jeffery and Kay Bird in Salem,NH She's charged with simple assault for allegedly shoving a tow truck operator removing her cars, failing to comply with a search warrant, being held on $10,000 cash bail and complaints with police back to 1998. After reading the newspaper article below i'm finding it awfully hard to believe there's no evidence that Bird's attorney couldn't use. There's got to be more going on between the Ag's office, county/local PD and municipal officers not to adjust an ill placed law before the charge was issued.


Police seize dogs from Salem home; owner charged with assault

The Eagle Tribune Fri Sep 14, 2007, 10:37 PM EDT

SALEM, N.H. — Police removed about 40 dogs yesterday from a Salem trailer where they had been living in squalor.
The owner of the dogs, Christine Harris, 54, of 75 S. Policy St., Lot 61, was charged with simple assault for allegedly shoving a tow truck operator and with failing to comply with a search warrant. She is being held on $10,000 cash bail.
The odor of dog feces filled the air outside Harris' blue, vinyl-shingled trailer yesterday. A chorus of yelps could be heard from behind the home.
"I've been here four years, and you can hear it day, night, weekends," said Tina Fairfield, a next-door neighbor. "We've learned to sleep through it. You learn to live with the stench."
The home, cloaked by a row of overgrown bushes, was condemned yesterday by Salem Health Officer Brian Lockhart due to the poor conditions and the number of dogs living there. Around noon, police posted a sign on the front door saying that Harris can't move back in until the home is cleaned.
"It's deplorable. It stinks," said Kelly Demers, Salem's animal control officer, as he carried out the dogs yesterday, one by one.
Demers said he went to Harris' home yesterday around 9 a.m. with a search warrant that allowed him to inspect the home and count how many dogs she had on her property.
"She wouldn't come to the door," he said. "It just so happened that a tow truck driver came to take away a couple of her cars, so then she came out."
Angered by their orders to remove two unregistered cars on the property, Harris then allegedly approached one of the two truck operators and shoved him. Police arrived and charged her with simple assault and refusing to comply with Demers' warrant. She has not been charged with animal cruelty.
Police had already charged Harris on Aug. 18 with her dogs being a public nuisance and with having several dogs without licensing them. Demers had rounded up four of them that day that were running loose outside her trailer, according to Deputy police Chief William Ganley.
"She quite possibly could be running a breeding kennel," Ganley said.
The dogs collected yesterday included pugs, Boston terriers, miniature pinschers, three Rottweilers, an English bulldog and mixed breeds. At least twice, Demers removed clear, plastic tubs full of puppies. One had a small dog with three smaller pups nursing.
This isn't the first time Harris has caught the attention of police and neighbors.
Complaints made to police date back to 1998. In 2002, she was charged with keeping more than five dogs in an area not zoned for a kennel and building an addition to her home without obtaining proper town permits. A judge had ordered the addition — which held nearly 40 dogs — to be torn down, but the case was ultimately dropped because she began complying with town regulations, Ganley said.
"Everybody knows you have yapping dogs over there going all night long," said Larry Taylor, a neighbor. "It's brought down the resale value of our property."
"I wanted to go to Florida," he said. "My wife said, 'We can't go. We'll get nothing for our property.'"
Neighbors said the enforcement brought by town officials comes at a time when the trailer park's owner, Martin Taylor, has made efforts to improve the park. Those improvements include removing unregistered cars.
Currently, Taylor is fighting to evict Harris from the property in a case that is now being decided by the state Supreme Court.
Jeffrey and Kay Bird, who have been living a few doors down from Harris for nearly 14 years, said yesterday that they have never had a problem with Harris, but feel sympathy for the animals locked away in her home.
"A lot of people have had problems with her, but we've never had a bad word with her," Jeffrey Bird said, sitting on his shaded front porch.
Kay Bird said, "I feel sorry for her, but she hasn't abided by the rules."
Ganley said both neighbors and police have praised Demers for dealing with Harris' case.
"He's been working on this for a very long time," Ganley said. "He really loves and cares for those animals."
Police said yesterday that if Harris posts bail, she could be allowed back into the home to clean up the property, but she can't live there.
The dogs and puppies will likely be held at local animal shelters. It's uncertain if Harris will be able to get them back at some point

I edited my comment due to my rational not being so good until I have had my coffee......:D

I agree. I will not be using my gun unless I feel I am under great threat of harm.
I will definitely let the intruder know I have one and that I intend to use it.
Hopefully I will have the presence of mind to grab my video recorder and use that at the same time I am dialing 911.

Yes it will cost money....If I shoot.....
Hopefully I will never have to worry about any of this.

One thing I will not do is wave my gun around at any time......

There is nothing like the sound a Remington 870 (or any other pump action shotgun) having a round chambered!

And there is nothing like the visual effects of this little fella standing beside you when someone comes onto your property with bad intentions:



http://www.mistylakespetresort.com/i...ttweiler_m.jpg

I've always kept my dogs locked up whenever I've actually had to investigate or confront any random visitors on our property. They're not trained to act as attack or defense dogs, and so the most they would likely do is get in the way, cause a liability, or block my shot. Or worse yet, get harmed or killed by someone who felt threatened by them in some way.

There has been a lot of hype and speculation and tough talk in this thread (not aiming this comment specifically at you). I think that more people need to research ACTUAL useful means of self-defense, including use of weapons, and think about realistic scenarios when you would be justified in using some kind of force.

Dogs, broomsticks, pepper spray, and such are not going to offer a reliable defense. Your first weapon is your mind, your next is your sidearm. Both should be in good working order. If not, stay in the house and keep 911 on speed-dial and hope it's a slow night.

Come on people, let's not forget that New Hampshire and the lakes region are one of the most crime free areas in the U.S. Why, more than once, I have broke down in my car, or got stuck in a snow bank, and not having a cell phone, have simply walked up to the nearest home with lights on, and knocked on the door and got the use of their phone, or had them make a phone call. This area is very very safe and people are trusting enough to open their door to a stranger at night!

Sometimes on the evening news, you see photos of people's homes in other parts of the country, and you get to see homes with security bar-storm door style doors, and window grates; real serious looking security grates that would really keep someone out. No security hardware like that gets used in NH that I ever see.

Here in Meredith, afaik, you have to go back to July 2001, and the very unfortunate Robert Whitney strangulation murder to find any home invasion murders by an unknown intruder. The convicted murderer, Gary Sampson, also killed someone in Vermont or Massachusetts as well, while enroute hitch-hiking to NH, so it was not like his murders were part of a thought out plan.

Maybe you want to avoid picking up hitch-hikers, but even that is not really all that dangerous because NH is a very safe state! Frequently, hitch-hikers are people who lost their license due to a DUI conviction, or something like that, and do not become triple murderers like Gary Sampson, so I don't want to be bad-mouthing hitch-hikers. After all, how does one drive two vehicles at the same time?

FLL, I sat across from a table from Gary Lee Sampson during jury selection for his sentencing trial. I was not allowed to sit on the jury based on some of the answers I gave to questions from his attorney. I did get to address him and I can tell you he lacked soul (I can't describe his eyes any better than this). He would have laughed at your mace or broomstick.

Are home invasions common in NH? No. Can it happen? Certainly and I would prefer to be prepared to defend my family.

I live in the town next to where Dr. William Petit lost his wife and two daughters to savages. I see his brother a couple of days a week. My wife was Dr. Petit's paitent. He stated at the sentencing hearing that he almost committed suicide during this long ordeal. I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED! NO TOWN IS SAFE! NO HOME IS SAFE! Dr. Petit had a baseball bat to defend himself. The cowards beat him with it. DO NOT LET ANYBODY TELL YOU THAT A GUN IS UNSAFE TO USE TO PROTECT YOURSELF OR YOUR FAMILY! Take a NRA course to learn how to use the only thing that will protect you and your family when the savages knock down your door.

You keep living in you liberal minded, big brother will take care of me and protect me world. I will live in mine where I will take care of myself if absolutely necessary. Your welcome to knock on my door late at night to borrow a phone because your car broke down. But don't think for a second that I won't be armed when I answer the door. You may not see it and I hopefully won't have a reason to divulge that I have it, but IT WILL BE THERE !


Maybe he should have had enough sense to borrow fatlazyless's broomstick that he seems so fond off. After all Meredith is so safe he shouldn't need a self defense weapon of any kind.
Of course he does still have his tax bill. ( I rather liked that one by the way, it did make me chuckle :laugh: ) Death by tax's, as they say.

How safe is it around here? Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and their own choice for personal protection, be it a .45 semi pistol or a kitchen broom. Me, I think I'll stick with the kitchen broom, or maybe a tennis racquet, and just use it to wave off any would be bad guys, because using a handgun in most cases just escalates a situation. Do not mean to be nasty here or be a jerk, but come on, if Ward had thought to use a broom, would he now be a long term guest down at the gray-bar hotel?

Going back to 1992, I've had a total of one time at my cottage on Meredith Neck when I felt a little threatened by an outsider. It was summer, July or August, maybe five years ago, and I was dressed like a house painter because I was outside painting the cottage. A large young white male, maybe 22-years, 225-lb, 6' with an extremely aggressive attitude and spoken language walks around the house, sees me, and he says that he is selling magazine subscriptions, and had some real good magazine deals. So, I had been cleaning a paint brush or something, and I immediately say " you know you need to have a police permit from the Meredith Police to sell magazines, door to door." He says "yes, I have a permit and shows me one from Gilford, but not Meredith." All things considered at that time, I quickly decided not to bring that up, and just told him that I was just the painter, didn't want any magazines, and that the home owner was not home.......and he left. But boy, I tell you, from his demeanor, I would not have wanted to let him inside the house.....no way.

It is simply much better to scare them off and call the police than to confront with a gun. You are not the police, and the legal system gives the police the benefit of any doubts on their enforcement practice. Call me a chicken if you want, but I would just rather avoid a confrontation, and just go play some tennis, than to spend a lot of time w/ the legal system. Better to shoot an ace on the tennis court than to shoot a .45 in personal defense. As soon as you shoot just one bullet in self-defense, either as a warning shot, or trying to hit someone, it probably opens up a big can of trouble. Go hide under the crawlspace or something, and let the police be the neighborhood protectors.

What kind of danger did Ward see when this overweight 50 year old women came on his property in clear daylight and asked him some questions?

This is what we should be talking about and not what happened when some psychotic individuals broke into someone’s house and……..

You are justified in using lethal force against another human being if, and only if, there is immediate and unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to an innocent person.

If you have never been attacked, it is natural to wonder how you would react, and whether you would be able to judge the situation properly. But when reality happens to you, you are very likely to find that you have no trouble at all knowing that you are in immediate and unavoidable danger. What you do then will depend on how you have trained yourself (mentally as well as physically) to react.

We'll never know for sure unless Ward himself decides to log on here and offer his viewpoint.

My personal interpretation is that he *didn't* see any danger when she came on his property initially. The perceived danger seems to have arisen from when she didn't leave when first asked and instead chose to confront and challenge him on his own property.

We also don't have conclusive evidence of how exactly the firearm was made visible.

The REAL real debate is, IMO, to what degree should a homeowner be allowed to confront and via various means potentially intimidate a clear trespasser who shows no intentions of leaving a property they are not permitted on.

In Ward Bird's case I think it would have been better for him to pick up a phone and call the police before even talking to her if she was trespassing.

That would be my first line of defense against an overweight 50 year old women.

I think I would be a little embarrassed that I had to call the police because she was a threat to me though. :D

I wonder how many Americans would open their front door to someone (anyone) in a uniform. It may not be the Maytag man.

Once that door begins to open, you could be in big trouble, because gun or no gun, he can knock you off your feet with the door and be on you before you realize what happened. First be sure your door's got a stout chain or a peephole so you can ID your caller. Second, when in doubt, don't invite him in. If he wants in, he'll get in. In the meantime get on the phone and prepare for fight (or surrender) or flight, whichever you're more comfortable with.

I don't even think a 911 call was necessary in Bird's case. This wasn't a scared emergency situation to get this lady off his land......this was a clear angry situation.

Unfortunately, any weapon - including a gun - can be turned against you. Our laptop has fingerprint recognition log-on technology. As soon as similar technology is available & reliable on a firearm so that only I can fire it, I will buy one.

As for Mr. Bird, he had one of the most experienced criminal defense attorneys in the state. By not accepting the plea offer, he gambled, and lost. He should be grateful that he is being allowed to serve his sentence in the Carroll County HOC instead of the NH State Prison.

Anyone who doesn't like the outcome of this case shouldn't fault the court system. The legislature passed the law that requires a minimum mandatory sentence of 3 - 6 years for committing a felony with a gun, when the gun is an element of the crime charged. In doing so, they eliminated any possibility of judicial discretion.

Meanwhile, the only way he can get his sentence vacated is through a pardon, but there would have to be extraordinary circumstances for that to happen.

Some excellent points all.

I think the overall story gets clouded by personal feelings. The intruder has a history of being rather whacked. Bird seems to be well-liked, and has his own stuff going on. Nothing I've read really seems to explain his behavior. Medication? Something she said we don't know about? I think he demonstrated poor judgment, over-reacted, and in a dangerous way. But the punishment is overboard IMO, given both the intruder herself, and most of the testimony and descriptions given.

As for the guns? Everyone would like to think that in a home invasion scenario, they'd go get their gun, find the hidden ammunition in a locked cabinet or safe, load the gun, then either scare off the intruder(s) or kill them. If someone had made it into your bedroom, you'd have about a half-second to do that. Sometimes you get lucky, wake up after hearing things, and have enough time to deal with everything else. (probably why I never fix squeaky stairs) :emb:

I'm sure every family man has thought about this type of incident while kissing the kids goodnight, staying awake just a few minutes pondering it, maybe even after waking up because of some little noise. I'll bet the majority of people have thought about what they'd do. And I'd bet even further that the vast majority of people would forget their plans after fear sets in.

But reading about horrific invasions, whether it be the Cheshire CT incident, or the savage and random attacks on the Dartmouth Professor and his wife that were savagely killed, or the recent trial of the guy who used a machete in a home invasion. Here's a recent one as well, involving handguns
http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=11577171

There are plenty of home invasions involving violence right in the northern NE area. For all of these cases, I support the death penalty, whether it's administered by the owner of the house, or the Court system. But then we get into the problematic storage of weapons, separate area for ammo, etc... It's probably for those reasons I've never owned a gun.

"He says there are 400 cords of wood around the jail and he'd love to be out there splitting the wood instead of sitting in his cell." quote from today's Union Leader Dec 8

If that doesn't make you feel sad thinking about his situation, then you should read it again and think on that quote. I know next to nothing about the everyday life of a prisoner being held at the Carroll County Jail over in Ossipee NH, but would take a good guess that it must be extremely boring, and boredom can be very very mentally challenging. (Hey, just look at me!) Does the jail have a tennis court? Probably not!

Someone once said that the only thing that prisoners can expect to learn in most US prisons is "how to be a good prisoner." That means how to stay quiet, slow down, and not get in trouble with the prison rules and just do your time......period!

Maybe the Carroll County Jail has its' own website? Will go take a look-see on that.

www.sheriff.carrollcountynh.net

http://www.nhpr.org/node/9038

curious
 

Always been curious about one thing..maybe someone here has the stat.
How many accidental shootings...or any type of gun "accidents" for that matter, have taken place in homes, that have no guns?????
Anyone????

For home use security it would seem that a small .38 revolver would be perfectly adequate. Remember the 1960's tv show DRAGNET, starring Jack Webb as Sergeant Joe Friday, Badge 714, on the L.A.P.D., working the night shift. Sergeant Joe Friday, and his partner's character played by Harry Morgan. I cannot recall Harry Morgan's character's name?

Anyway, both these police officers had these small little.38 revolvers with short barrels, and it worked good for them in the great big city of Los Angeles, so a handgun like that should be perfectly good for the lakes region. Plus, they are probably much less expensive, and much safer by design than a semi. because it is LESS complicated. When loaded with bullets, a person who is looking at the gun barrel pointed at him actually gets to see the dull lead bullets inside the revolver sectional chambers, unlike a semi, plus some very potent rounds are made for a .38.

Drop a semi, cocked & locked, onto the floor, and will it shoot off....maybe? Do the same with a revolver, and the only way a modern double-action revolver will shoot off is by depressing on the trigger. The gun store in Meredith next to Town Hall probably has them used for a hundred dollars or so?

Our newly elected state senator, Jeannie Forester was using her bright pink Glock as an election campaign vote collecting tool in October 2010, so that says something about people's attitudes on handguns, locally.

It might also be interesting to see how many home invasions were stopped because the homeowner had a gun. If you don't want a gun in your house, then don't buy one. If I want a gun in my house, don't hinder my right to own one.

Ok....who here has been held up by a robber at gunpoint? Anyone? I have.....on April 19, 1979....Boston Marathon Day....6-pm.....in a small Boston retail store.....by a screaming Italian-looking guy wearing a paisley shirt with a dark purple V.F.W. windbreaker.....heavy beard....not shaved for maybe 3 days.....darkish complexion.....probably an experienced hold-up guy.

He got about $850 cash money and tossed me back 50 as he left, just to be a nice guy or something, plus I got marched down into the basement wondering if I'd ever be walking back up the stairs. He had a small .38 revolver, something like a Smith & Wesson chief's special, 5-shot revolver w/ a 2" blue barrel which is the same as what Sergeant Joe Friday used on Dragnet, so I know from experience, how convincing it can be. .....He was extremely nervous and seemed to be very panicky about getting caught or something by someone unknown to him as he kept looking around and around while it all happened over about two to three minutes........:D ....That was no picnic.

FLL the Devil's advocate.

More like the Devil's jester.

But back on topic, and speaking of the NRA...

I certainly hope the NRA is assisting Ward Bird. Sounds like a good case for their efforts. If you are a NRA member, drop a note to them and ask what they are doing to help.

I was thinking the same thing but quickly decided it was not worth bringing up.

Can't tell fi you're trolling or serious.

It might be next to the statistic mentioning fires started in homes that have no sources of ignition or stats on fall-down-a-flight-of-stairs cases in homes with no stairs.

Rattle Isle Windy side
 

You might want to freshen up on gun laws.
Inside the home gun protection differs from outside the home.
Inside then home you have every right to shoot and kill an INTRUDER weather they are armed or not, if they are coming at you. Then refuse to talk to the police until you have first talked to your lawyer.
Outside the home they best have a gun or you probably will be guilty of murder.
You cannot just shoot someone weather they are on your property or not. That is what the law is for.
This whole thing is a freaking joke. What are we going to do next pass special laws that only apply to nice people? Give me a break.
While I agree the sentence is quite stiff I still feel he deserves to be punished and have a record that prohibits him from carrying a gun or at the very least requires him to take a mandatory gun, no make that every available gun safety class so that he knows gun laws.

Ward Bird sure does have a lot of support from local businesses.
These photos are in today's edition of THE MEREDITH NEWS :

How many "gun safety class's" have you taken ?

sa is a friend of mine who definitely is not trolling. I think he was trying to be funny. Although sa and I don't agree on hunting and probably gun ownership as a personal choice. I am sure he wouldn't hinder my right to own. I didn't see the humor, until you mentioned the houses with no stairs.

No appeals
 

Tried to read through this entire thread. But doesn't he have an opportunity to appeal the decision?