I'll go one step further, the merchant generally can't absorb those fees and pass them along to the customer. So you pay your own bonus.

Bottom Line
 

That seems to be the answer.

The Village Kitchen does a great job of providing good meals at fair prices. If we were to assume that there was a 10% profit in that business it would seem like a poor decision to give up a substantial percentage of that to credit card fees.

A $40 check which would have had a $4 profit changes to a $2.60 profit when someone uses a card where the owner pays a 4% fee. Enjoy your credit card perks but remember that those benefits come at a cost to the seller and that money has to come from somewhere. When you dine at restaurants that accept credit cards remember that you are paying extra for that.

For one, I appreciate the good food and fair prices at the Village Kitchen and would rather pay cash than see them go up on their prices to compensate for credit card fees.

Using a debit card in today's world isn't very smart, or safe. Why would you use something directly linked to your account where cash is immediately gone. If that's stolen now you have the hassle of making sure it is returned...with a credit card you have a lot more protection.

I understand the concept that each method has different fees, it's up to the business to accept that as part of doing business. Not me, not you, the business. If I use my card and get the incentives then perhaps the cost of goods will reflect that. But that's life, and what you chose to do is up to you.

Technically, no.

Not everyone has a "points" card, some have regular cards, some people pay with cash. For the most part, the business charges the same amount to every customer (yes, we've all seen the RARE cases of the small business that has a 2% cash discount).

So in reality the people who are NOT using points cards, or are paying with cash are co-funding the rewards received by the points-card holders. Everyone is paying the same price, and the business has to set their prices to cover a worst-case payment scenario (higher-fee points card user).

For me personally, I prefer to put everything on the credit card, even the $2.00 transactions. It's mostly convenience and spending tracking. For something like eating out (especially a breakfast or lunch) it's a spontaneous decision for the wife and I. We'll be out doing other things, decide to get something to eat, and find a local spot. I don't like going in and having to worry about if I have enough cash on hand to cover the bill+tip, or having a meal eat up a decent amount of my pocket cash and then having to go to the bank at some point. The bigger benefit of using a card is spending tracking. I can put $200 in my pocket and it will seemingly "evaporate" if I'm paying for things in cash. $30 for lunch, $80 at the grocery store, $10 at Starbucks, and so on. A week later I'm out of money and struggling to remember what I spent it on. Put all that stuff on the card and it's easy to look back at the end of the month and have an overview of what our expenses were. The points stuff is a nice side-benefit, but I'd use credit cards over cash even without the rewards. However, since I do have a rewards card I should say "thank you" to all the cash-payers subsidizing it for me :)

$10 at Starbucks? I think I see the problem! I make Maxwell House at home! Excellent!

I'm not saying this happens at the Village Kitchen. However, the maturity of the time small businesses refuse to take cash it is to hide some income from Uncle Sam. The avoidance of credit card fees is always the excuse always given but the real reason is so income can be under reported.

And you base this on what actual factual information? Have you audited someone's tax returns? Please cite specifics and give examples.

Huh? Me thinks you should edit!

I didn't say there was a problem, just that I like being able to track and manage my expenses (which is part of the reason why I can spend $10 at Starbucks without having to worry about it).

At Starbucks I'm usually getting some some of a latte or similar drink. If I want brewed coffee I'll usually try to find a Starbucks with a Clover machine, or a *good* local coffee shop.

If I'm making coffee at home, it won't be Maxwell house, it'll be fresh beans and a pour-over.

So I had to look up the "rewards cards cost more per transaction" thing for myself and was a bit surprised to see it is absolutely the case. What's more, corporate and government-issue cards cost even more.

Personally, I think not accepting CC's is kinda cool. What would be *really* cool, would stop any complaints from the younger crowd, and would be way cheaper, would be to accept Bitcoin.

Disclaimer: I'm 52, and not a Bitcoin fanboy, but I do work in the industry and get paid in BTC.

-jim

Your little disclaimer means nothing, that is a Damn insulting comment. What is your problem?

Google "cash businesses and tax evasion" there will be a wealth of articles. I'm sorry but that is what I think when I see a cash only business. Again, some firms that take cash only pay ever last nickel of taxes. However, that isn't the norm. The below is a good overview.


There are two ways to underreport income. The first is to tell the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) that you made less money that you did during the tax year; and the second is to claim more deductions, exemptions and tax credits than you really deserve. Underreporting of income is the single largest contributor to the tax gap, making it America's favorite form of tax evasion. More than 83 percent of the $450 billion tax gap, or $376 billion, is attributed to underreporting of income [source: Internal Revenue Service].
Who is most likely to underreport income to the IRS? According to the non-compliance statistics from 2006, individual filers -- not corporations -- are the biggest tax evaders, underreporting income by $235 billion, equal to 52 percent of the total tax gap [source: Internal Revenue Service]. Interestingly, the biggest culprits among individual filers are folks who own their own businesses. Underreporting of business income accounts for $122 billion missing from individual income tax returns, while non-business income -- normal wages and salary from a job -- only add to $68 billion of the tax gap [source: Internal Revenue Service].
Wage and salary employees are more likely to pay their full income tax bills because their earnings are regularly reported to the IRS by a third party: their employers. Employers are required to withhold Social Security and Medicare contributions from each employee paycheck and hand that money over to the feds throughout the year. When an employee receives a W-2 in January, he or she knows that the IRS receives an identical copy. That's why only 1 percent of wage and salary income was underreported in 2006, while folks with no third-party reporting requirement — like self-employed workers or sole proprietors of small businesses -- had a 56 percent underreporting rate [source: Sahadi].
Jobs that pay primarily in cash are ripe targets for tax evasion. The IRS estimates that waiters and waitresses underreport their cash tips by an average of 84 percent [source: Nolo]. Cash doesn't leave a paper trail -- check stubs, deposit slips, invoices and the like -- that can be tracked by IRS investigators. If an employer pays a worker "under the table" in cash, it means that the employer doesn't have to pay unemployment tax or payroll taxes for that employee, and the worker can easily get away with not paying income tax on those earnings.

Starve the Monster...
 

In Europe, they're accustomed to government taxation and waste, so they use their cellphones for minor purchases:

I do the same. Let the wait staff decide what to do with their money. Some VK staff have driven daily from distances you wouldn't believe. :eek:

A happy crew (you'll notice) makes the dining experience much more enjoyable.

In these days of Trillion-dollar budgets, lessening the grip Uncle Sam has on the working poor is an act of patriotism.

.

Merry Christmas

Every employee of every company is required to pay taxes based on their income. Servers at restaurants who receive a cash tip are no different.
The difference you are talking about is what the servers claim as income.
-If a customer gives them a cash tip, the IRS requires them to claim 100% of that. Some do, some don't. But that is the law.
-If a customer gives a credit card tip, there is documented proof of income, so it really has to be claimed.

The IRS knows approximately what a server makes in tips based on their sales. So if a server is not claiming 100% of their tips (cash or credit), chances are the IRS can figure it out fairly easily.

Assuming the server actually gets the tip amount on the credit card.

This comment is totally not directed at VK, one of my favorite places on the Lake. I would pay in crops if they did not accept cash.

Your comment makes no sense. So if I have a long commute paying my taxes are optional? I simply don't understand why folks dealing in the cash based economy shouldn't pay taxes?

I think we need an "Argument forum" where you can just bash and nit pick to your hearts delight, and threads, such as this has become, can get moved there.

Mi gaud...

More often than not, these days, I hit "new posts" and see people asking things that are common sense, and others with obvious answers. I hope this isn't where the nanny world is headed, develop some self reliance, you learn things better this way.

/rant off

I disagree, this is a stupid idea.

I think a lot of the disagreements I've seen on this forum since I joined was not neccessarily an I disagree with you personally thing but more of a generational thing in what people are use to. For this thread in particular besides for one of two bold assumptions of tax evasion by all cash businesses the older generations are baffled by using a credit card for a 10 dollar lunch sub purchase when the younger generation is saying why carry cash 24/7 when there's no need too.

That will never change in my opinion. People will always have outlandish opinions and if you don't want them voiced than the Internet in general is not for you.

I don't think we need an argument forum at all I think we need to realize not everyone is going to agree all the time. I also think one of the biggest problems on forums is you can't detect tone or sarcasm via the internet. So I'm sure some posts come off a little more offensive than they were intended to be.

There is a disagreements forum, called issues. Some forums refer to it as the burn barrel.

Tell us what you really think. :D

I already did. Can't you comprehend basic English? I'll bet you vote Democrat.

:D

And the dead horses keep piling up. May be time to call in animal abuse.

Or make mystery meatloaf.

Ok, everyone together now, "Kumbaya my Lord, Kumbaya"

I missed this. The point is that most servers will never be anywhere near the 39% tax bracket. Taking more than they owe is wrong.

You get taxed on what you claim on your W2 form, based on the number of dependents.
I am not a server, but I get more taken out of my paycheck every week than I owe. When I do my taxes, I get a small refund because of that.
I have no idea what tax bracket I am in, nor does it matter, but I pay my fair share. So should servers, bartenders, hair stylists, and all tipped employees.

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought you had to make over 400k a year to be taxed 39%?

Cant remember from when I took accounting but I thought rule of thumb for a person filing single you were taxed something like this.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/kelly...rates_copy.jpg

Or jointlyhttp://blogs-images.forbes.com/kelly.../MFJ_20161.jpg

Any accountants that can weigh in?

Tax Rates
 

Winnisquammer...the tables are correct, so incremental income over the amounts shown ($400k +) is taxed at 39.6% but due to the graduated rates, up to that point, the total effective tax rate is around 28% on the income under the $400k figure.

My God this thread is like watching a ten car accident. You really don't want to see the carnage but still must have a look to see what has happened. In this case the carnage is reading too many posts by too many codgers (myself included) who have nothing else to do.

Surely there must be a different restaurant owner or subject that can be pulled apart by all of the experts on board.

Nice way to completely miss the point, have a nice day.

http://i.giphy.com/KqLPb0IrGHwiY.gif

Oh lord, kumbaya. Everybody now!!!

This guy has it right.

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

Turkey
 

All I know is that I am getting a turkey dinner at the VK tomorrow night... well, that and also that it is awesome!!

So please don't beat a dead turkey!

The point is that many, although not all, cash businesses are set up that way to avoid paying taxes. The reason this happens is there isn't a third party verification system like the W2 that is issued by most larger companies. When there isn't third party verification tax evasion soars and the folks who are paid via W2 wind up carrying the tax burden in the country. I chuckle every time I hear people complaining about the employees at Bain, the large banks such as JPM, etc. not paying there fair share of taxes. The fact is these employees are soaked in taxes.

Oh good lord give it a rest already! You've made your point again and again and we get it.

I've never had the pleasure of eating at Village Kitchen but now it's on my list. Any business owner who manages to stay respectful in the face of this garbage is one whom I look forward to supporting.

You know this from personal experience?

I don't want to continue derailing this thread, but I can't let this slide.
Can you explain what your point is?