South Down Shore - red alert!
 

Jetskier in post #202 has South Down Shores for a local location, so that immediately raises the red flag alert to his South Down motivation to criticize replacing the ugly railroad tracks with a welcome, user-friendly 12' roadway for the public to use.

Stick to the facts.
 

ugly railroad tracks?
user friendly roadway?
My motivation?

Let's try to stick to the facts and not resort to personal attacks.

I see the residents along the proposed route as stakeholders in the WOW debate.

It's easy to be in favor of a proposal when there is no direct impact on you.

Even if one is not directly impacted by the WOW Trail expansion, there is a tax payer implication to be considered.

Just consider the Colonial Theatre project to get a sense for what may be coming next.

.... it's our private way, not your public way!
 

South Down doesn't want the Wow Trail to happen, for pretty much the same reason it didn't want the nearby Big Island to become a summer girls camp.

Because it will change what they see, looking at their lake view, and it will bring in people who were not there, before.

The Wow Trail, just like the Big Island summer girls camp would be a new, welcome, go-to place and create a beautiful public recreation venue.

South Down just wants things to stay the same, no new changes-thank you, and will fight hard to keep it their way.

All true and have the right to fight against it. Guessing it comes down to who has the deepest pockets. It is ironic that the south down tax payers are paying to fight against it and also paying through their property taxes for it.


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Why do the WOW folks want to put an existing business out of business? Why is it the WOW folks cannot co-exist with the RR? oh wait... it is all about the $$$! The RR existence makes the WOW trail too expensive to build! Then perhaps they shouldn't build/extend the WOW trail?

Lets not forget it is the same stupid City Councilors who decided to buy the Colonial for way too much money, proceed to sink way too much into the rebuild (because HEY its good for downtown) but will not spend any $$$ addressing the parking issues downtown! On the upside, good ole Rusty can step in, renovate the apartments above the theater, and make a fortune on the tax payers of Laconia! WOOHOO!


Woodsy

I agree. If they want the trail so badly (FYI I am near the trail and would actually enjoy it) raise the extra funds PRIVATELY and have them coexist. It is not fair in any way for the trail to put the Winnipesaukee Scenic Rail out of business especially when it has been an asset to the area for years. I sure many in favor of removing the rail would not like it if someone was trying to put them out of business for a walking trail so some other recreational issue.

Read this in your best Walter Cronkite...

In the news today... the Laconia City council voted to agree with a sham study funded by the airport, that extending the airport runway would be an economic boon to the area. Unfortunately, this will put local favorite, Patrick's out of business.

Can you imagine? But that is the logic the WOW folks are pushing!

Woodsy

Not all railroad ROW's are easements, some cases the railroad's owned the land out right. I can't say for certain that this line was owned outright or not but I do know the majority of the lines the B&M operated were in fact owned outright by them and not easements. Either way the federal government instituted the National Trails System Act in 1983 that allows all ROW's abandoned by the railroad to be railbanked, which keeps easements from reverting back to the original landowners. However I am 99% certain the original landowners must be compensated again, since its intended purpose has changed. A tedious process to say the least, especially if the original land has been subdivided. That could cost the state a pretty penny if the line in question is only an easement.

If you have enough money you can always find someone to be on your side. Studies can be swayed by who ever can adds more zero's to the check. :(

My point exactly..... this so called study was paid for by the people who want the tracks gone!

Woodsy

The answer should be extend the WOW trail up the east side of Paugus Bay all the way to the Weirs and leave the tracks alone on the west side.

There are some old tracks on the east side if they really want to pull some up.

Just think of all the commercial establishments that would benefit.

You keep the railroad in business plus you generate new business. Once the commercial establishments add public docks even the boaters will be happy.

Nobody has to disappoint the snowmobilers either

Perhaps SB/Longbay would pony up the funds for the cause they would otherwise be giving to the lawyers


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East side has way too many obstacles such as motels, docks, businesses and very limited about of land.

However you do bring up an excellent point not brought up often. What will happens to the snowmobile trail? I highly doubt they would be allowed on the WOW Trail as they are not allowed on the current section.

I for one would be every disappointed as I use that corridor often

Laconia city counsel shelves the push to have the railroad tracks removed for the time being.
https://www.wmur.com/article/laconia...trail/29969490

Hopefully they will shelve extending the airport!

shouldn't even be a discussion - answer is No, for the mere fact they can't legally do it. Also the fact that they even would consider shutting down commerce for everyone involved with the tracks. Good luck with lawyers in court in that one. No wonder my taxes went up so they can waste the money on a snowball being thrown into hell

The audacity of these WOW trail people astounds me.

Awesome news. Thank you for the update. FLL will need to find another crusade in the meantime :laugh: I am sure that should not be a problem

... a railroad track that once was?
 

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, once upon a time, many, many years ago, there was a railroad line that traveled along the Lake Winnipesaukee shoreline in Meredith, and the Weirs Beach and Lakeport areas in Laconia.

First built away back in 1883 or so, for many, many years it was a very important transportation link.

However, with the building of Rt-93 in 1965, and the big switch from steel wheel trains to rubber tired cars and trucks, the Winnipesaukee Railroad tracks have greatly declined with little to no use, no trains, no freight, and no passengers.

What it really is, is an unused railroad track, something more like a railroad track that belongs in a museum.

The Winnipesaukee Railroad ….. it was great when it was alive ….. but it is now totally dead …. may it rest in pieces! … :patriot:

If you were to go down to the track today on November 26, 2019, you would have to wait about six months before a train actually came down this here railroad track ….. a-yuh! … :patriot:

Next train coming along in May, 2020 on this here www.hoborr.com/winni.html will be the Mother's Day opening day rail ride train, or something, which is not even a real train ….. it is a local tourist train.

So, Gov Chris Sununu, please help move the lakes region forward by tearing out these old steel rails and wood railroad ties, and help build the www.wowtrail.org in its' place.

FLL will promote anything that doesn't cost him money. His moto is "if it's free it's for me". :rolleye1:

Wow trail
 

Hit the nail on the head!!! [emoji4][emoji23]
Or on the knuckle head

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Hmmm? seems there are a lot of business that are seasonal and won't reopen or start up again till spring, should we demand they all shut down if we don't like them or use them if someone else wants to use the space? :D

Last nights city council meeting is on YouTube. The testimonies start around the 13 minute mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhjgwDcVdnk

Interesting testimonials. All in favor of keeping the rail. Surprised no one spoke in favor of removal and no one from WOW.org


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.... it's our private way, it's not your public way!
 

Slow moving 9-mph, rubber tired trolley buses would function similar to the existing Winnipesaukee Railroad, and could co-exist with pedestrians, runners, and bicyclists on a 12'-wide 'trail' that's built to replace the demolished railroad steel tracks and wood ties.

So, that makes a 12' 'trail' a multi-purpose plan that will accommodate both the trolley riders and the people powered foot traffic and bicyclists.

Over the course of the Wow Trail route, there are numerous areas where a wider 15' rail trail can be built that makes it a little more accommodating for the pedestrians and trolley to share the road.

With a railroad train, the tracks cannot be shared with anyone, and indeed as it is private property, the abutting residents are quick to call the police on unknown, incoming, track walkers.

The railroad track is not so much a railroad track, but is much more a 'no trespassing', safety buffer line for home owner security.

When local residents say "we love the Winnipesaukee Railroad" ..... what they really mean is that they love it as a line of private property with no trespassing, and they basically have control over who gets to walk across, or along the track.

"It's our way, it's not your way!"

"Hey Rene, there's an incoming boogie out on the tracks, about 250-yards south down ..... better call the cops!"

I just do not understand. This is an extremely important topic to many of us here on the form. Why must you derail it with your dribble and babbling nonsense


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Because he has a captive audience on here. In person, no one would listen to him.

This board has an "ignore" option; if you don't want to read what someone posts you can choose to "ignore" them, and their posts will no longer be visible to you.

Not that you should, but you could.

Occasionally he has something worth reading and I can usually tell before I get too far into it. That's the only reason I don't block him but those postings are few and far between.
Usually it's just the same old ***** rehashed over and over again because he's got nothing else to do.
I hope I never get that lonely. I hope he has somewhere to go on Thanksgiving besides Walmart.

It's a waste of time since most people "quote" his posts when replying to or about him so you end up seeing it anyway

"Occasionally he has something worth reading"
 

This may one of those times.

There is something very important in FLL's post that I haven't seen addressed - a trolley. It may be here, I just might have missed it.

The best utilization of Laconia, the Weirs, and Meredith will happen when you can easily get from one to the other. Shop and play all day and only have to park once.

I (naively I am finding out) assumed they would use the existing tracks as a trolley system to connect the three locations.

Is there a plan for getting people from one location to the other, or will it all be Uber/Lyft/Cabs?

TheRoBoat - you can't have light rail (trolley/subway) and heavy rail (railroads) intermingle on the same tracks. The only place where it was ever allowed (that I'm aware of) was in Lowell, MA where the National Park trolley, made use of industrial railroad tracks when the B&M was still servicing customers on the same track. That was in the 1980's and very early 1990's but times have changed and things of that nature, are not allowed anymore.

Light/Heavy Rail
 

Thanks for the info Trail Goer. That explanation makes sense, for that situation.

I don't think this is a similar situation, and while there may be "rules", you could have a fully functioning trolley system, and keep the rail. The Clark family could run both, and schedule accordingly.

I would also argue that given the choice between the Winni/Hobo and trolley, the trolley would be a much more lucrative operation.

But the question remains - if not trolley, how do the people get between the towns?

Your missing the point. They operate on different systems. The current rails are also used for freight and parts for the Hobo rail and changing would be extremely costly.

Also, the current rail stops in Lakeport, the Weir’s and Meredith


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Why does everyone think we must go between Meredith and Laconia? Has anyone asked Meredith? On second thought they do have a large number of benches and grassy areas along the docks for those interested in napping


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Your missing the point
 

When Trail Goer said they coexisted, I assumed that he meant they used the same tracks - Heavy and Light.

By your reply - It appears you are saying no, they use different size tracks.

The rail should remain as is - I am in agreement with you. I am not in favor of removing tracks for the WOW trail.

So all the Clark Family needs is a few retrofitted trolley cars

Has anyone asked Meredith?
 

The more important question is has anyone asked TPG Resorts?

I'm not aware of passengers being able to get on or off at Lakeport, I think its just the location where the train reverses direction. I could be wrong though, I just haven't paid to close attention to it.
I know downtown is kind of largely over looked by a lot of people but as I keep telling people, every revitalization project has a first step. Having Laconia become and active train station again, I think would do wonders for downtown, I just don't know how it would work out with the railroads current operations. The draw bridge at Lakeport is control by the railroad but they have to stop and manually flip a switch to close it, which adds lag time. I suppose a closed circuit system could be installed, similar to what activates the lights and bells at a railroad crossing, but in this case to close and open a draw bridge.

Molly the Trolley
 

Molly the Trolley works just fine in Wolfeboro. A couple of flag stops along a circular route from MacIntyre (sp?) Circle/WalMart, Margate to, say, Akwa Marine, Weirs Beach RR station and Funspot would allow non-drivers such as teens to go shopping, to the beach, etc. Tourists could ride to the Weirs for the Mount, Sophie C. without feeding parking meters. Of course, the Weirs docks are still, well, you know.

..... and another thing!
 

And, another thing about replacing the 9-mile long x 9-foot wide existing un-used single railroad track that runs along the Winnipesaukee embankment from Lakeport to Weirs Beach to Meredith with a 12-foot wide gravel roadway.

In addition to a tourist trolley like Wolfeboro's 'Molly the Trolley' sharing the Wow Trail with walkers, joggers, runners, and bicyclists ...... a 12-wide gravel roadway would get patrolled by the www.laconianh.gov/229/Police who could be walking, bicycling, or driving along slowly in a Laconia Police patrol cruiser.

It would change the use from a very infrequent summer tourist train to a 7-day, 52-week, waterfront access, Lake Winnipesaukee go-to rail trail ...... what's not to like!

Removing the tracks would be a terrible mistake in my eyes, and I feel an option where the two coexist would be best for everyone.

Perhaps the push by the city to remove the track will motivate the Clark family to make Lakeport a more frequent / favorable stop. With the recent investments announced in Lakeport, and some that have not yet been announced, it may prove to be an economically beneficial move to the rail line.