Repetition is good
 

I like the idea above. I've said it before, the problem with a 1 time test is that it's all too easy to "cram" for the test and then flush whatever knowledge that might be retained, away. Repeated testing is like the old school style of rote learning, repeat, repeat, repeat until the knowledge sinks in. I bet everyone my age got the multiplication tables stuffed down their throats until they gagged. I also bet most can do simple math in their heads today as a result. I bet that even Capt B would remember the more important rules if he was forced to repeat them ad naseum.

Whether that would make a difference can be debated.

2 x 4 = ?? Anyone .... ;)

I know, I know (shouting and waving hand in the air)
 

I know this one Mac

2 x 4 = an almost 2" by an almost 4" piece of lumber of various lengths often used in construction. a 2 by 4. Do I get 100 on this one teach'? :laugh:

P.S. I used to get a lot of A's on my report card... I think they were mostly A for Absent though...


RE testing: I agree with you MnM and Wolfeboro_Baja. Plus you don't need to be a professor to know that regular testing (including vision checks) is not a bad idea.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...Duck_8-64.jpgI have read all the speed limit debate.I have come to the conclusion that we don't need speed limits.
I think what we are all talking about is bad operators and bigger boats.There are way more boats than there use to be and they are bigger.It makes the lake seem more crowded than it is. A 30' boat going by at 25 seems a lot faster and more dangerous then a 16' boat at the same distance and speed. A lot of 25 to 30 foot boats in a smaller area makes people feel uncomfitable ,even if you are in a similar sized boat.
I put up a picture from another thread to show what I mean.That was Alton in the seventies. Back then there were not many boats over 20'.The bay seemed bigger then.
There is nothing we can do about more and bigger boats.But we can all set a example in our boating and encourage the state to do more enforcement.
I think that is the real problem,better enforcement of the laws costs money.Passing a new law to appease the people who are complaining cost nothing.

Interesting Debate
 

I have spent that last two days at lunch reading through all of these posts. And after reading the posts from both sides of the issue, I don't think a speed limit is the answer to the problem. The lack of regard and enforcement of the existing laws is the problem. Just like land speed limits are not followed, why would a boating speed limit be followed? Try going the exact speed limit on any highway, talk about feeling afraid. You become an obstruction on the highway even in the far right lane. A law is already on the books that says you should not operate your boat at an "excessive" speed. The middle of the Broads on a Tuesday and Meredith Bay on a Saturday call for different speed considerations. A Marine Patrol officer can stop you if you are operating your boat in a manner that can cause harm to you or your fellow boaters. The problem is that they can't be everywhere at all times, stopping every captain bone head. Excessive speed could be headway speed if you are coming into shore and there are other boats or swimmers in your area, or going 200 mph and weaving through other boat traffic. I don't know how passing this speed limit is actually going to change the behavior on the lake. The Capt. Bonehead that will speed by you within 150 feet, is not going to suddenly become the perfect boater because you tell him to do it slower. If you want to fight for something, then perhaps we should be trying to get more funding for boating safety. Just think what could have happened if both sides pooled all the money they used to lobby for this one bill, and used it to fund boater education, or providing a larger better trained Marine Patrol auxiliary. The likelihood of you doing something stupid decreases proportionately with your likelihood of getting caught. I pulled up and read though the USCG accident statistics that have been quoted many times during this discussion. While excessive speed is a cause of accidents/fatalities I find other statistics more frightening. The first is that "70% of reported fatalities occurred on boats where the operator had not received boating safety instruction." Second that the leading cause of fatalities is alcohol related fatalities. And finally that the leading cause of accidents is operator inattentiveness. These are education/enforcement issues, and not based on anything else. So why isn't there a big push or outcry for education and enforcement? I just don't get it. I guess I am just naive, but I am most "afraid" of the boater that doesn't know what they are doing, or drunk. Because they can cause harm at any speed.

Hey Parrothead...maybe not where you drive, but here in the NH lakes region, the speed limits on the roads are definately enforced. Every single day, I always see those blue lights at work, with another car stopped for something, and it's my guess it is usually for speeding.

On Route 93, trucks or cars going over 70 definately get stopped, conditions permitting. And, on more local roads, ditto that.

Your premise, or supposition, at the start of your argument is simple ' not so' , so maybe you want to go back and rethink the entire remark.. :D

No thank you
 

FLL, I guess we have different experiences, but I did think out my remarks and still stand by them. I still believe that a speed limit will just be one more regulation that capt. bone head will disregard. I still believe that the Marine Patrol does not have enough of a presence on the lake to adequately enforce it. I still believe that the biggest issue facing boater safety is that some boaters do not follow the existing laws. People drive while intoxicated, do not pay attention to where they are going, or get too close to other boats,swimmers, and land. I still stand the original premise of my post that boater education and more enforcement will make the lake safer, and that a speed limit will not make as big an impact.

Well, in my opinion, it would just seem to me that sighting a hand held, radar, speed detector on a speeding 32' fiberglass hull from a distance of one quarter mile would be about as difficult as hitting a large barn with a snowball from thirty feet. The surface and angular design of a fiberglass boat should easily be detected as it moves across the lake. It's about as non-stealthy as a moving object can be, plus there's the noise, wake, bright colors, lights, and rooster tail of water.

Add to this the speeder's 'fear factor' for getting dunned through their next three year's car insurance bill, no matter which state you call home.

......sorry....but that's the way I see it. :)

2x4
 

1 5/8 x 3 5/8

Interstate Analogies Again...
 

How many drivers in your example were at anchor? :confused:

A driver can't legally stop in Interstate traffic, but boaters can travel at less than 70-, 75-, or even 10-MPH. Boaters have been endangered when legally stopped!

BTW: The Marine Patrol's Speed Survey arrived at their "average" by including boats traveling under 10-MPH.

possible convoluted thought process
 

Ms. Evenstar's justification for her zealous desire for a speed limit is based on surprised reactions by those who see her. I can speak only for myself but I know some others think like I do and I look surprised when I see some females. Be they very cute or the extreme opposite and sometimes in-between I would look surprised when I see them. Did we not have a thread about nude kayakers recently? If I got close enough to see the persons features I would look surprised even if I saw the kayak more than 150 feet away. I think you are drawing the wrong conclusion from your observation which you claim is your basis for speed limits.

I would not expect an ocean kayak like this to be in the broads during a windy busy weekend. There should be a law about that.

Here it looks like the boat is going to hit the kid. The captain did not see the kayak. The kid did not appear to notice the boat probably because a slow sailboat doesn't make noise like a GFBL boat. Fortunately the boat in this picture is not going fast due to the laws of physics not government.
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...1&d=1204119647 Why would you want to paddle one of these Ocean Kayaks across the broads in heavy weather? It's your choice but does not seem wise.

Perhaps we need a vision test? perhaps? You are concerned about being seen that you demand speed limits but are not so concerned about vision qualifications?

:confused: Is it just me or does this not make sense?

I was for speed limits originally but reviewing all the information presented in these threads I have switched sides. There is no need for speed limits on the lake. Enforce the ones we have and educate the boaters.

I strongly disagree with this statement. On I-93, at least from MA up to Concord, 75 is the norm. Yes, I am sure that some cars that travel over 70 get stopped. But those are the guys who are driving recklessly. Swerving in and out of lanes etc. Drive 75 in the left lane, and it is unlikely you will be stopped.

My use of Route 93 is pretty much from exit 20 to exit 42 and that's of what I speak. On Friday evenings, the traffic is probably ten-twenty times heavier than on a tuesday at 10am.

With speed enforcement, It's sort of like duck hunting....a flock of 20 fly past....and maybe one gets hit.

There's a well known speed trap at the south end of Franconia Notch on Rt 93-south, where the road signs are all brown indicating a parkway. The road returns from one lane to two, it's supports a 70mph speed but the limit is still 45mph until you get to the next sign that says 65mph.

Basically, there's usually no crowds of traffic.....it's cruise control country.

It seems like with less traffic and a more empty route 93, the traffic settles on 65-70tops, and people drive a lot more polite.

The state police & highway patrol stake it out behind the snowbanks, or blending into the woods, and with not much traffic, a speeder is like a sitting duck.

Last time I was stopped for speeding was over three years ago, by a Thornton officer, who cut me a break, and lowered my offense by one level. It takes three years, here in NH, for a regular class 3 license, to get "safe' again with your ins co. Do not know how long it takes for a cdl-a to get "safe' again, and do not want to find out.

Perhaps I can explain how it can work..

There are thousands of Capt. Boneheads and future Capt. Boneheads out there. When choosing a lake to torment they are less likely to pick one with a 45/25 speed limit. As more and more lakes enact speed limits these Captains will tend toward the ones without speed limits.

Not having ANY speed limit is like a big sign on the lake "Welcome Capt. Bonehead". I want out lake to be the one they shun, not the one they congregate at.

Also many Capt. Boneheads have wives, wives that will stand in a boat showroom and ask "why are we spending an extra $100,000.00 on a boat that will go 90 when the speed limit is 45?"

Having a speed limit sets a standard of behavior. The fact that some will ignore that standard, is not a reason to have no standards at all. Right now are standard, with respect to speed, is NO LIMITS. That is not an appropriate standard for an already crowded lake.

Further, I maintain that most people are law abiding.

I'm sure Capt. Bonehead's wife will have a huge impact on his boating purchases....it's worked for years on our highways and roads. :rolleye2:

In the real world.....
 

How does that work now? So when more and more lakes enact limits they'll what? Drive to Michigan and launch? What about all the people who call the lake home and own these boats?

When did you determine that the go fast drivers=Captain Boneheads? I thought we mostly agreed that Captain Boneheads encompass all types of boats. Most notably the rental boats and the small affordable runabout crowd most likely has a larger percentage of Captain Boneheads. What are we doing to shun them from operating on the lake. If anything the lake will be more appealing to the novice if you use your logic. Less "scary" = open invite to the rookie captain.

Based on a scientific study? :emb:

We have SEVERAL standards of behavior. They are ignored. Just like this speed limit will be ignored.

Talk about spin. There ARE speed limits on the lake. The 150ft law dictates speed as do the plethora of No Wake Zones. Marine Patrol has many reasons to pull someone over for excessive speed based on CURRENT LAW!

I do too. However, most people do travel on I-93 over the posted Speed Limit. By most people I mean the majority.

NH has tens and maybe hundreds of smaller lakes, and whenever some neighbor shows up with a new 'go-fast boat,' the neighbors all whisper to each other....psssst....that big fast boat...it don't belong on this little lake...that fruitloop should trailer it over to Winnipesaukee and leave it there.....until Captain Fruitloop sooner or later gets the neighborly message and takes it to the Big Lake.

Therefore, all the problemo, go-fast be-loud, boats end up on the Big Lake.

Verdict: the Big Lake needs and wants a speed limit.

After consulting with Judge Judy, this case is closed.....I have spoken!~! Please exit the courtroom on opposite sides of the room. Thanks and have a nice day! :D

The average Captain Bonehead is not driving a few hundred thousand dollar GFBL, he/she is driving a 21' bowrider, small cruiser, rental boat, pontoon, or jet ski. I think that the average performance boat owner has more respect for their boat and the laws. There are certainly exceptions to any rule, and in this case it is the drunk ones that usually offend. You do not have to drive a GFBL to get drunk and kill someone, I could get loaded and flatten someone in my pontoon boat.

I would be happy to provide my boat for an afternoon to do our own survey of who the offenders really are. An hour at Glendale, an hour by Bear and an hour by the Weirs on a busy weekend would be all that we would need to see the gross disregard of the existing laws.

I do agree that a speed limit would limit my choice of boats if I was shopping in the GF market. I have wanted to pick one up for a few years now and decided against it for the possibility of a speed limit. It would be stupid to spend $100k+ if there is a chance the law will happen. The performance boat market in this area is hurting badly so there are plenty of deals out there but come resale time you will feel it.

Since the proposed law is Winnipesaukee only, maybe the GFBL's will redirect to Winnisquam, Ossipee, or other bodies where I am sure they would be certainly welcome... :)

Once again the arguments against what I have posted miss the point.

You can't get rid of all the Capt. Boneheads, the idea is to get rid of a few.

Every car sold in the US will go 90 mph. With boats it's different, an extra 10mph can double the price.

They don't need to drive to lake Michigan. Long Lake in Maine is very close. So is the Atlantic Ocean.

The argument that we should not set a standard because some will ignore it is absurd. Murder is committed every day, does that mean it should be legal. An insane argument!

Some wives get their way!

We are not missing your points, we just don't see eye to eye.. Why try to ban a few Captain Boneheads though when the true efforts should be to put in place preventative measures and/or training that will help deal with the overwhelming remaining 95%???

Agreed, although I disagree with the standard in general, not the fact that it will be ignored. It is the fact that it is not needed that is my issue. The basis for it is simply not there.

I agree that most people are law abiding. But I still feel, and this is my opinion here, that many folks out there are breaking laws/regulations that they don't even know about. I think this is supported by the 70% of accidents that occur are by uneducated (to the rules of the water) boaters. Now I also want to say that the speed limit isn't really an issue that will affect my boating. My family's boat runs the most economical from 25 - 30 mph where it just gets on plane and that is where we run it. I am more concerned that the speed limit issue is getting so much hype that other safety issues on the lake are being swept under the rug. The main one being that some boaters are operating their boats in a manner that can harm others. Now that maybe going too fast, or not paying attention to their surroundings, or drinking too much and getting behind the wheel. Why is it that no one is up in arms about this issue? Why aren't we spending time trying to provide more education and enforcement to educate boaters on the laws we already have. The speed of a boat does not equal safety. A guy going headway speed playing with the radio could run over a swimmer. And a boat exceeding 45 mph in the broads where there are no other boats around them is not excessive. While a boat going 45 mph in Meredith bay on a Saturday with many boats around them is excessive. I guess after reading all the posts and information I could find over the last few days, I just don't see how regulating speed is going to help. I do think somehow getting more funding available for education/ and enforcement will help. I know form past posts that many have have complained about their run-ins with Marine Patrol, me included. But an increased enforcement presence would be more likely to put a dent in boaters operating "excessively" than a speed limit. And provide a safer environment for everyone to enjoy the lake.

The old "let's have more training, education and enforcement" argument is a good one, except that IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN!!!

Those ideas all cost a lot of money, so once again IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!

Speed limits are an imperfect solution. However they cost little to nothing and they ARE GOING TO HAPPEN!!!

A partial solution that will in fact be implemented is preferable to better solutions that will not be implemented.

Instead of hacking away at speed limits perhaps you people should sit down and write legislation that will provide more education, training and increased numbers of MP officers. I'll tell you why you are not doing that, because you know it will never, never, never, get anywhere.



An additional argument is that Boneheads can be very resistant to education and training. The do respond well to things like a summons or handcuffs.

Are you certain we're all missing your points or are your points simply so transparent they're difficult to see? ;)

Best Post/quote Ever!!!!
 

Very well put Parrothead I could not agree with you more!!!! This law will change NOTHING in terms of idiots/drunks/carelessness etc.

Just letting everyone and to join those that agree. I agree with Parrothead. The current laws are sufficient for safe boating.

Enough Already
 

Adding a speed limit would be ludicrous... Putting teeth into the laws that are already on the books, makes much more sense to me.

Such as;

1. Vision and hearing Test

2. Handling and Driving Test

3.Boating certification Test, and on all copies of the above and including final in hand certificate in large letters, " Being found guilty of any offence related to boating safety brings a mandatory one month confiscation of the boat involved. And if the boat involved just happens to be a Rental, or not owned by the operator, So Be It-First Offence, and no exclusions. And I don't care if you know The President Of The United States.




Caught on the portible Weirs Bridge Cam awhile back

I agree, who is going to provide the handcuffs and summons? The Marine Patrol and auxiliary are already spread too thin to patrol all the bodies of water in NH. Without enforcement of the speed limit, how is it going to be any more effective than the 150' rule, or excessive speed? I am naive, but not naive enough to believe that just because a law exists, that it will change everyones behavior. There are always a subset that will push the limits and the laws as they do now. And that is what the speed limit is aiming towards a small subset of the boating community. A Marine Patrol boat stationed somewhere with a radar gun will change the behavior of the boats around them, but what's to stop someone from speeding up once they are out of site. Regardless of the speed limit, I would imagine the presence of a Marine Patrol boat would cause everyone to be more cautious anyway. I am not really "hacking" at speed limits, as I said I don't really care one way or the other. I don't think that the speed of boats on Winni is the biggest issue facing a boater on Winni. And that the boating public's scourn should be more focused on the drunk boater, or the boater putting themselves and others in danger by not knowing what they are doing. Just my opinion, and I don't imagine it will change any views, but it seems that all this energy to get this one bill passed may have been better spent on other bigger issues.

Your logic is really quite laughable here. The same people that are either blissfully ignorant, or purposefully ignorant, of other boating laws are suddenly going to be intimidated by a speed limit law, and factor this into their consideration of where to boat?

I'm relatively new to Winnipesaukee (but not boating), if it wasn't for this forum and all the speed limit threads, I'm not sure that I'd even be aware of the great speed limit debate. Someone who doesn't even care to use courtesy and common sense in the first place is hardly likely to do some in-depth study on where they want to go boating, the likelihood of a speed limit law actually deterring anyone is about nil.

The boats on the lake that can actually top 45MPH are really a minority, and even the ones that can top that speed don't necessarily do so on a regular basis. This is truly a solution looking for a problem, no matter how valiantly you try to position it.

The speed limit law, if it passes, will solve no problems, nor will it discourage the types of boaters that you don't like from coming to the lake. Being a moderately sized inland lake, Winni is the perfect Captain Bonehead magnet. All the people who want/can afford big boats, but couldn't actually handle such a craft in truly "big" water love to putter around Winni in relative safety.

Further, if more lakes enact this law, the people who really want to go fast are probably MORE likely to come to Winnipesaukee (larger body of water, more places to go fast, harder to patrol).

This debate rages on, and I've stayed out of it for the most part, but my prediction is that if it passes you won't really be able to determine a season without a speed limit from a season with a speed limit, if your measure is overall safety and comfort on the lake.

I have been checking the posts on the anti Winnipesaukee speed limit thread on offshoreonly.com

Analyze This owner of a 42' Fountain Lightning posted this about speed limits on Winnipesaukee.

"I've boated on Winni for the past 10 years...pulling the boat out of the lake this year and dropping it in the Ocean down the cape. Going to miss the lake though...great times!"

Some of the posters there are unhappy because the "Poker Runs" (unofficial races) have been moved to Sebago Lake in Maine.

Anybody want to tell me again how speed limits are not going to make the lake better. GFBL's are already leaving because they know the No Limits party on Winnipesaukee is over.

Re-Read the thread... This time read it carefully. Note: The GFBL boaters are NOT the problem. We are discussing the fact that the amature/ignorant/careless/captain bonehead comes in all shapes and sizes, most notably the family runabout. So what we lose a few GFBL's and that's the magic pill. *POOF* Winni is safe now. LAUGHABLE:laugh:

Re-read yourself Hazenut. The post above mine thought nobody was going to leave because of a speed limit.

You yourself had the Lake Michigan comment. But now the facts are in. GFBL's are leaving because of speed limits that have no even passed yet. Get ready for a big exodus and more peaceful Lake Winnipesaukee!!

You should go to that thread and read what they really think about speed limits and all of us.

Entering Spin cycle

Who says GFBLs are not the problem?

We have been talking about performance boats all along.





So do you admit now that performce boats will be leaving?

ARGGGGGGGGHHHHHH

Seriously Bear Islander? SERIOUSLY??!?!?!

Do I really need to spell every little tiny detail out to you. I am guilty of one thing only and that is giving YOU any shred of credit to be able to read and understand meaning behind a message. Ok so here you go I'll explain it out the long way just for you!!!

We were all discussing that a Speed Limit solves nothing because the bad behavior on the lake has NOTHING TO DO WITH SPEED! We had all discussed earlier that by removing GFBL boats we solve NOTHING. I had said in SEVERAL posts before that I do not own a GFBL boat and I don't care either way about them. MY POINT IS and ALWAYS WILL BE that by enacting a law BASED ON NO FACT is not the answer. Islander claims that the lake will be "getting better" because GFBL boats are going to leave... I DO NOT AGREE that they will. HOWEVER if and IF they do it makes NO DIFFERENCE in terms of safety on the lake. The boneheads will still be left behind in their wake to cause HAVOC and continue to ignore the RULES THAT EXIST.

Besides, You REALLY think that by GFBL boats leaving the lake all of a sudden the lake is going to be safer????? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA..... :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::

By the way I do AGREE with you on one point you DID enter spin cycle on that last post.

This horse been done beat to death!
 

Since I started this thread originally about comments that Lt. Dunleavy made in a "letter to the editor" many, many moons ago; can I ask if anyone has anything new to add in reference to that?

Otherwise most of what has gone on here for the last week or two (or three)is regurgitation of a lot of stale arguments.

Yeah, I know....if I don't like, it ignore it. However I have tremendous respect for both this website and its webmaster and am cognizant that many folks visit this site and its threads as guests...many times first time guests. I would hate for them to stumble onto some of these very lengthy and often nasty diatribes and think that it is representative of all of the great folks (and topics)that populate these and all the other threads.

We're not changing anyone's minds here folks!

So, does anyone have anything new and to the point? :)

I totally disagree with your statement. Bad behavior becomes extremely dangerous behavior when you add high speed. When someone violates my 150 foot zone at low speeds, it is much less dangerous than when this happens at high speeds.

Just because no paddler has been killed or hurt by a high speed powerboat is not proof that high speed boats are not creating a dangerous problem on the lake. No agency keeps track of close calls. So we have no way of knowing how often high speed close calls happen. It's been my experience that they happen way too often.

I have had close calls with high-speed boats on Winni (that were going faster then 45 and that came way closer than 150 feet from me). Others have stated that they have had similar close calls. And here is a hard fact: The faster you are going, the further you will travel in the time that it takes you to react. That is a safety issue.

For me and for many others this is ONLY about safety. Yet when I state my reasons here, I'm accused of exaggerating or even of lying, or my posts are just ignored. I'm told that I must not be a very good judge of speed or of distance (when I happen to be an excellent judge of both).

Speed limits do make lakes safer. With all else being equal, slower speeds are safer than faster speeds - that's a fact. And I've seen the effect of a speed limit on Squam - which is NH's 2nd largest lake.

I have only spoken to 4 MPs about a lake speed limit law, but all 4 wanted a lake speed limit. When that previous bill was in the House (which would have enacted a speed limit on all NH waters) I also spoke with 2 Coast Guard officers, and they both were in favor of the bill. Both the MP and the CG members told me that they saw a speed limit law as a "necessary tool".

The speed limit will not prevent all unsafe behavior on the lake, but the violation of other laws does not negate the need for a different law. And I do know from personal experience that some power boat operators travel faster than their ability to see smaller boats in time to remain outside of the 150 foot zone. I am basing this on their surprised reaction, when they do finally spot me. Slower boats always seem to see me in plenty of time - it's the faster boats that are the problem in this situation - and a speed limit will in my opinion make this less likely to result in a serious accident.

Re-read my post that you quote, I did not say "nobody was going to leave", I said that a speed limit wouldn't discourage ( or measurably reduce ) the types of boaters that you want off of the lake.

Your quote of one example from another forum proves no points.

So true.... I'm done. I think I've said all I need to say. The original thought on this thread was in reference to Mr. Dunleavy, I sent him a lengthy email quite some time ago in support of his efforts. That was the most important thing I wrote in the last month.


Honestly I would like to apologize to anyone who might have thought my posts to be "over the line." I get very passionate about "stuff" and I get so amped up. I would really really like to meet up with some of you, including and especially you Bear Islander and have a beer and discuss. I really am one of those people who just get passionate and involved with whatever I feel is important to me. I really think that we all have the same passion and love for the lake. We just have different ideas on how to make it better. Bear Islander I do appreciate your love of the lake and what you do with the cams and stuff.... I also know a Speed Limit is probably inevitable at this point but I do not have to like it!

I can tell ogling surprise from the surprise of suddenly realizing that they are about to run me over (and they have been close enough for me to see their eyes). I've offered to take anyone of you out kayaking on the lake anytime (well once I'm off crutches and finished with this semester) - then perhaps others here would understand why I'm so zealous for a speed limit (for all NH lakes).

I'm also a collegiate sailor (my team is currently rated 8th in North America). It is the sailor's responsibility to know what is on the other side of the sails at all times. We wouldn't win many races if we didn't keep an eye on the other boats at all times. So the "captain" of that boat is an idiot, if he didn't see the kid.

That is not a sea kayak. Just because the manufacture slapped the words "Ocean Kayak" on it does not make it one. Other than speeding boats that don't see me, there is nothing dangerous about an experience sea kayaker, with the proper equipment, crossing the broads on a windy (within reason of course) day. 2 and 3 foot waves are not a big problem for an experienced sea kayaker, with the right equipment.

My point was that this is a discussion about the need for a speed limit. A vision test is a totally separate issue - which would require another law. And I don't know enough about the ability to implement and enforce a vision test requirement to intelligently discuss this. Again the need for other laws does not negate the need for a speed limit law.

Come kayaking with me, and you may just switch sides again. The 4 MP officers that I have spoken with all want a lake speed limit law - they see high speed on our lakes as a problem. I agree with them.

My last post on this:
The goal of the speed limit proponents is not to make the lake safer by correcting the poor boating behavior. The goal is to get rid of the GFBLs. Period.

Report from Lake George, New York
 

Supporters of the boat speed restriction bill often state that Lake George, New York, is a prime example of how well boat speed limits work. Really? A 202 page research report was published in 2006 concerning boating on Lake George. In part this report stated, “67 percent of residential dock owners and 65 percent of annual permit holders said that unsafe operation of boats was a problem on the lake.” Evidently the speed limit has not solved the concerns of the lakeshore property owners. Nor did the speed limit prevent the tragic deaths of 25 senior citizens on a small tour boat two seasons ago . . . that was precipitated by a boat wake. Nor did it prevent the death of that young man who ran into a diving board off a dock with his boat. You can’t compare Lake George with Winnipesaukee . . . their configuration is completely different. New Hampshire has a 150 foot Safe Passage law on her waters. Lake George does not have such a rule.

If you read the annual reports from the Lake George Marine Patrol (8 boats & 8 officers) you will not find any mention of the use of radar or court cases.

Top me that is an indication that the Lake George speed limit is working! Enforcement does not seem to be a problem.

I'm surprised the percentage is so low. Unsafe operation of boats is a problem everywhere.

Nobody has claimed that a speed limit will stop unsafe operation of boats. Anybody that does make that claim is a liar or an idiot.