Please
 

If you are going to get involved here, you should read the posts. Your new merry man, Yosemite is the one who does not know the difference between Hugh and huge. Please see post #173 where he tried to poke fun at Hazelnut, 4th or 5th line from the bottom.

Unlike you, I will direct you to the entire post so it can be read in context instead of your "parsing" of text while cobbling together one of your responses.

whoa...things are getting a little out of control here. No one(pro or con SL) on this SL forum is a girl scout from what I can see. El has often been on the receiving end of the personal insults...so what if he's able to give it back? We're all big boys and girls here and if we can dish it out we need to be able take it.

Some here on both sides of this issue "toe" the line, some step over it which I believe has happened here.

I'm sorry Sunset but go right ahead and spend the next two hours looking over my posts if you want but I have never ever even come close to what trash was posted here today.

I may have had disagreements with you or some others but I have never called anyone's profession, gender, sexuality, into question.

While I am not surprised by the post I am disappointed that people here were subjected to it.

Agreed! And we know who that is!

Like I said, I've seen plenty of trashing coming from the Sl opposition as well. And I've seen supporters called stupid, pond scum, idiots,liar, and the list goes on and on. What strikes me is that a couple of those prime offenders who taunt and insult some of their fellow forum members are the first to run crying to Don when they get a dose of their own medicine.

Well said
 

I rest my case, thank you.

huh?
 

Funny thing here APS - do you know what this quote was referring to!? I DO! It was back when we had the offshore races up here for a short stretch - once again, pulling quotes out of context to drive your agenda. That was MY boat, AND we were just inside the outer edge of the buoy-line of the course, where technically we shouldn't have been AND it was one of the race boats that was approaching AND that comment was made in-jest. But hey, you keep manipulating quotes and deliver your propaganda to the masses in hopes someone will care and listen.

Nice try - keep digging!

He is a great story teller, deserves an Emmy IMO. :laugh:

Btw...
 

Why is everyone getting so nasty over in this thread - it is / was very civil in the other threads... Everyone take a step back, take a series of deep breaths and relax. We were making good progress toward a middle-ground of sorts, let's not blow it with name calling and insults. Just stick to the facts, stand your ground and make your point(s) and work toward a solution that will appease (most) everyone. Picking on spelling or grammatical errors, professions, etc... isn't doing anyone any good - and it is causing a loss of focus on the points-at-hand.

I tell my wife all the time, life is short - we only go this way once - when we are gone, we're gone for a loooooong time! :) So make the most of your time here, live life to the fullest and if you don't like onions on your burger, order it without! :cool:

Another idea...
 

How about we try this as a little exercise?

Let's all post our ages - seriously - as a reminder of just how old we are and how old we "should" act.

I'll start - I just turned 41. :)

A question for Mr. Chase.
 

You have been scouring the web to give the members of Winnipesaukee.com the most accurate and relevant articles related to dangers of high speed boating. I couldn’t help but notice that on post #177 your article is from MSNBC.

You have made it clear what side of the aisle you are on.

My question is:

What would you be doing even reading an article from MSNBC, and why would you believe it was not fictional? :confused:

Say what you will Sunset but that post was so way out of bounds beyond anything I have ever "dished out." It was pretty disgusting and uncalled for.

I agree that I have dished out my fair share but if you call that "a dose of (my) own medicine," I strongly disagree.

I love giving it out and taking it back but this one crossed the line big time. Uncalled for and way way inappropriate.


I'm ready to move on and put it (him) way back in the rearview mirror. I was told (warned) by many individuals (pro and against SL) on this forum not to get involved in discussions with elchase and now I know why. I am absolutely done with him and now have moved him to ignore status.

Just turned 43.

Part of my point Hazelnut, not directed entirely at you, is why for example, wasn't there this much indignation when EL was falsely accused of illegal fishing. It's a 2 way street. That accusation was not uncharacteristic of the barbs being slung El's way.

Let me further add that this entire tangent of the argument was and is my fault. I stuck my nose in and I shouldn't have. Many forum members prior to elchase have, in the heat of the argument, called people's intellect into question regarding a slip of the keyboard with regard to both grammar and spelling.

It was a tactic I saw a couple of forum members using time and time again. When I read and react to a post I usually base my response on the content of the post. Some people, whether they had no real rebuttal or not, chose to resort to trying to paint the responders as stupid because they misspelled or misused a word.

This tactic wore thin with me and I finally snapped when I saw what I perceived as another attempt by a forum member discrediting a post from someone else based on a spelling mistake.

It wasn’t even my post! So I stuck my nose in and have regretted it since I hit the post button.

I apologize to all that have been subjected to reading the thread. I also want to apologize to YosemiteSam. I generally do enjoy your posts. While I disagree with your stance on the SL I think you are a good sport and I enjoy trading barbs with you. I think people misunderstand your humor sometimes and take it personally or take it as an attack. So I’m sorry I was rude to you in my follow up post after you so aptly caught my major mistake as I was pointing out a mistake in the other post.

I’m taking DTM’s advice and stepping back and taking a breath here. I really think that there are great people on both sides of the issue. SOTD, while we have traded jabs I think you do a good job making your case for the most part. I really think that one person on this forum who makes so much noise has driven a spike between both sides of the argument. Whether or not that was his mission he has succeeded. I really think honest to goodness debate on the matter could take place between many of us. If you go back and research the forums you’ll see that one member has made it his mission to ensure that this does not happen. I was told that was the case by many and I never believed it until now, shame on me.

Good move Hnut.

Agree. I stayed so far out of that forum thread.

That's Ok.....thank you!
I admit I am hard to understand sometimes.

You'll all note that my attacks are always responses to attacks that had been directed at me. I am like Israel...I only strike in retaliation. And I'm not going to shy from defending myself just because some of you can't take it. Meanwhile, there are a few of the cult (you know who you are) who follow me around and attack every time I post. If I post on another thread about fishing, they suddenly appear to disagree with and insult me. If I post on another thread about sailing, they suddenly appear to disagree with and insult me. Hazelnut's attack at me was unprovoked, personal, rude, hate-filled, based on her error about the source of the original misspelling, and childish...who has the time to be spell-checking and grammar checking each others' posts? Get a life. My original post was not directed at her, was not insulting, and was no cause for her attack. I got no apology for that and still no apology when I pointed out her error. "Don, please protect me, Ed fights back and I don't like when people do that. Please kick him off the board." Sexist? "Smarmy" was your own word, not mine, and I never knew it was sexist. "Don, a man called me "smarmy" back after I called him "smarmy". Please sanction him." (Hazel, note my placement of the period inside the quotation mark in this instance? http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2932 ). And saying I am insulting your sexuality is outrageous. How could I even know of your sexuality? When did you even disclose it? Where did I insult it? I have several gay friends and am very tolerant about alternative lifestyles. Don't call me a racist and don't call me a homophobe unless you can back it up lady. I've never seen such a glass-house crybaby. Keep your personal opinions about me to yourself and I'll keep mine to myself. But if you want to throw gasoline, I'm throwing it back until I am kicked off the forum...and don't cry when you get burned. I'd never strike a woman, but I'd certainly fight back verbally.
You started this one. My response was in kind. You sound like a whiny little girl to everyone except your own gang, who will side with you and against me no matter what you do anyway.

Now, so as to not waste this opportunity to further educate;
Laconia Citizen
Laconia, NH
Monday, July 5, 2004
Two thrown from boat in Alton not injured
By KRISTA MARRS
Staff Writer
ALTON — Two boaters thrown from a vessel in The Broads Saturday evening were not injured.
Andrew Rocco, 36, of Exeter was operating his 30-foot cigarette power boat on Lake Winnipesaukee in the area between Parker and Rattlesnake Island just before 5:30 p.m. when Marine Patrol officials said Rocco went into a tight turn and rolled the boat.
Rocco and his passenger, Kimberly Dailey of Portsmouth, were ejected but were not injured.
A boat passing by stopped to help Rocco and Dailey get out of the water. The boat was later recovered from the water.
Marine Patrol was assisted by the Wolfeboro Fire Rescue Department.
The incident is being investigated by Marine Patrol Officer Michael Vito, Supervisor Dave Gunter and Sgt. Eric Robertson.

The investigation found nothing they could charge Rocco with. He was sober, was luckily not within 150 ft of shore or another boat, and there was no speed limit then. Of course if it had happened this summer, they could have charged him with speeding and tagged his driving record too.
Why is this stuff so easy for me to find yet you guys keep saying "We can't find where there has ever been a high speed accident on Winnipesaukee."? (Hazel, see http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2932 before you insult my question mark placement).

You were wise to do that Hnut.

Elchase, I believe Hazelnut has mentioned time and again that he is a male and not a female. So everytime you mention that he is a girl/women or lady is insulting. I think you do this on purpose and then cry victim. Get your facts straight. Oh, that's right, facts aren't important to you.

Could you please use one of your remaining 4 posts to answer this for me:

How fast was he going?

Thanks.

The only thing I've gotten out of this latest series of attempts to rile everyone up is this. El missed the point in this horrific accident he listed.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/b...7RlLGo2mH3wSmO

"Two fishermen told cops they saw the boat speeding under the Goose Creek Bridge a minute or so before the crash.
The speed limit under the bridge is 5 mph."


Huh, imagine that.

Not so much, I really do get your sense of humor. I think others will also appreciate it. No matter your position on certain topics. :laugh:

I really appreciated your take on my "polling." :laugh:

Don't shy away from posting as I think you said you were going to do on another forum. I'd rather see your perspective around these parts.

Wow - elChase, what gives!? (Although I have you blocked as you just bring this place down, I got to read your post as quoted by gtagrip). Hazelnut apologized for what went down earlier, was the bigger MAN (HE is not a woman) and offered the "olive branch" if-you-will. "Sam" accepted and let it go, why are you so bent on carrying on? Let it go and move on - we get you are all about standing up for yourself, and have a strong opinion on the SL, but you need to chill out. Really, is it beyond you to just say "gee thanks, that was much appreciated and I know things can get heated here, I too am sorry for getting so wound up, etc...". It's like you are trying to be this literary (forum) martyr or something just to hold your ground - is that your goal? I love a good debate as much as the next guy (or gal), but everyone has their limits - and we are all adults here, aren't we!? Do everyone - most importantly yourself - a favor and just step away from the computer, take a few deep breaths, grab a nice glass of McCallan 25 and chill.

The thing we seem to lose sight of about the lake is this - we all love the lake, in our own way. Be it in a kayak, canoe, bowrider, old woody, or a big fast performance boat. And at the end of the day, safety seems to be the primary concern for all - I know it is for my friends and family. Go out, have fun and enjoy the lake and BE SAFE!

Peace! :cool:

Obviously way too fast. You guys always say that 60 is slow enough to ensure that accidents like this can't happen, so I'd say he must have been going over 60, right?

I never saw such mention and did not realize this and did not assume him a girl to insult. Since "Hazel" is a girl's name, I don't think the faux pas was all that outrageous...but nevertheless, I give Hazelnut my most sincere apology for wrongfully assuming he was a girl. I will not make the same mistake again.
However, calling a guy a "sexist" implies that he is denigrating women. I never did any such thing. Saying that someone is insulting your sexuality implies that he is denigrating your sexual preference. I never did any such thing. If Hazelnut is going to throw such spears, he either has to learn what they mean or back up the accusations. All I did was make a mistake about the gender of a member who's moniker sounds feminine. And unlike Hazelnut, I am man enough to apologize succinctly and directly when I make a mistake.

Show me where Hazelnut apologized to me for calling me smarmy, the "spelling police" and attacking me. He apologized to those who had to read his rants, and to Sam. He expressed his regret for having written his post, which is a world different than an apology. There has yet been no apology to me for saying that I am smarmy, saying that I think I am the spelling police, being my grammar police, and otherwise inserting himself into a matter that was none of his business for the sole purpose of attacking me. And I'm also still waiting for this "bigger man" to apologize to me for earlier calling me a liar. I won't hold my breath.

Sam was apologized to. I wasn't.

No offense DTM, but I take my life lessons from a higher source. Your group makes a habit of lecturing as if you are a group of social elites. Every now and then, one of you climbs up on the lecturn and starts preaching to me about how I am "swarmy" and what I need to do to improve myself. No thanks. If I want a lesson, I'll take it from someone who I admire and respect. I have found little reason to respect or want to emulate the social skills of a single one of you. And even if I did, I don't come to this forum for counseling. I'm sure you are not interested in my opinions about what you need to do to be a better person, right? This is an Anti Speed Limit thread. If a single one of you would limit your input to your reasons for opposing the speed limit and stop the insulting, and stop giving me cause to insult back, then we could have the civil debate you all claim to seek. But as long as the bunch of you keep lobbing grenades and then crying "foul" when I throw one back, this debate is never going to climb out of the gutter.

What? Here we go again. Where did you get this one? This is exactly what I mean. You guys are a bunch of phonies. You don't want to debate the speed limit, you want to fight...so long as no one fights back.

Oh, then never mind. I guess a teenager hitting me in his mother's boat can't hurt...especially if he didn't have permission to use it.

Please put me on ignore. PLEASE.

Here is another high speed accident that happened on Winnipesaukee before we had a speed limit;
Laconia Citizen
Laconia, NH
Wednesday, July 21, 2004
Two escape injury after being thrown from boat
By RICH BERGERON
Staff Writer
GILFORD — Two occupants of a boat were thrown from the craft but were unhurt when the boat hit a submerged object and flipped over on Lake Winnipesaukee near Carr Point in Gilford.
According to Marine Patrol officials, the boat being driven by Thomas Madden of Salem was traveling at a high rate of speed when it hit the object and overturned Sunday night. The accident caused both the driver and passenger to be ejected from the boat.
A passing boater arrived on the scene to assist the victims and also helped tow the boat to shore. There were no injuries.

Now someone please tell me how this one is not relevant to a discussion about the need for a speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee (or lack thereof).

Perhaps it wouldn't matter if it were a smaller boat right El? Nothing to worry about as long as it's not a five-ton craft?

If you could put your intellect to good use instead of games, it would be well-served.

And yes, that's a compliment :)

El, whatzamatter with you...of course there is no relevance here...the driver was from Salem for cryin' out loud. We've already established a couple of weeks ago that people from Salem don't count! Get with it!:laugh:

Job for elchase?
 

In todays GSN there is a want ad for a Marine Patrol officier Traninee.
I think they have the date a little screwed up...it states "effect January 2, 2009. Maybe it should say 2010.
This would be a good job for elchase...Yes or No?? :D

How fast was the boat going? What was considered to be a high rate of speed in 2004? And the most important question is this: would a speed limit have prevented this accident?

Way too fast. You guys say 60 is slow enough to ensure that stuff like this can't happen, so I guess that suggests he was going way over 60. You tell me.

Even if the lake was more crowded today than in 2004 (the only thing I can think of that would change the definition of "too fast") I think an impartial viewer of even minimal intelligence would conclude that he was going at a speed that would be too fast in any year.

No, the most important question (in my opinion) is this: would a speed limit have been more likely to reduce or increase the chances of such accidents on our lake?
Remember, there was not a single accident on Lake Winnipesaukee last summer that anyone can say even might have been caused in whole or in part by excessive speed. So the SL is batting 1000 so far. It is not going to stop all speeding or eliminate all accidents, but it is surely not going to increase either.


Here's a bass boat going too fast and crashing; http://www.break.com/index/painful-bass-boat-crash.html
It does not tell us his exact speed, his age, or whether he had his mother's permission, but impartial viewers of the video can draw their own conclusions about whether he was speeding and whether things like this are more or less likely to happen on a lake with a 45MPH speed limit.
While some will say "he was violating the safe passage law anyway", as if that forgives his speed, we used to see the bass boats fly by in such proximity to each other at such speeds every time one of the tourneys started. This summer I'd see them go by in the same tight groupings, but much slower. It is my opinion (might not be yours) that these two boats in the video would not have been flying around filming each other at such high speeds in the first place on a lake with a 45 MPH speed limit, and that this is therefore another accident that our speed limit would have prevented from happening on Winnipesaukee.
Please don't respond with questions to me about the video. It speaks for itself. My posting is moderated and my opportunities to answer are limited. And please don't respond with insults. If you want to avoid the bickering as you all claim, just reply with statements telling us why you think this is more or less likely to happen on a lake with a 45MPH speed limit.

ED, The operator was breaking at least 4 laws before the crash. Why would a 5th law change the outcome?

This is what I have been saying all along. Where is the improved safety? why would one more law have changed either of the tragic accidents that the SL supporters continously use as examples? It doesn't make sense just to add another law on top of multiple other laws that are being broken.

Because he might have been going slower?:rolleye1:Sure glad it's illegal for a guy like that to go faster than 45 MPH on our lake. And jeez, the noise those things make. Just one more thing contributing to Winnipesaukee's bad rep, IMHO.

I guess you forgot about the Treasure Island accident, clear case of excessive speed.

You are joking right?

Treasure Island...!? Which one was that?

Haven't seen an update as of yet.

"According to a Marine Patrol report, the two were were in a boat being piloted by Robin Pyburn, 50, of Alton, that was attempting to return to the West Alton Marina. Those onboard apparently became disoriented in the dark and spent several hours trying to find the marina. At about 8:15 p.m., the boat traveled inside a buoy and became grounded on the rocks it hit. Sapier and and Panella were thrown forward at impact, when the sustained their non-life threatening injuries. The Alton Fire Boat responded to a subsequent 911 call and transported everyone to shore. Treasure Island — also known as Redhead Island— is a small island located just east of Sleepers Island.

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/Lacon...2009/10/8L.pdf "

So imagine this, a smaller boat was traveling around for "several hours" , become disoriented, then went aground at 8:25 PM. At the very least, it's a good example of not knowing where you are and poor navigation. They probably should have been going slower due to their Disorientation, but given the injuries, they probably weren't going that fast. If they had been traveling around for hours, it would have been daylight for most of their cruise. So if they were disoriented, it surely wasn't caused by darkness.

Some people didn't like this accident, because it looked like operator error in navigation, and it wasn't a GFBL boat.

I don't think it matters to the SL supporters. Any accident is a speed accident. :rolleye2: