Good post Woodsy
 

Couldn't agree more, that the concerns that caused this speed limit to be proposed can be covered by existing laws. Everyone on both sides of this argument agrees that enforcement is an issue on Winni. But the pro-speed limit crowd keeps repeating that enforcement is a dream because it costs money. I'm tired of hearing that as an excuse for why enforcement can't be increased. If we as a community had pushed for better enforcement of our waterways, instead of a temporary fix, then perhaps things could be better. The speed limit is a way for the government can say that something was done, when in fact it is not going to make much of a difference. Sure there may be a few weeks of boats slowing down, but when you can go most of a day and not see an MP boat, then the speeds will go back up. The law has no teeth without enforcement, and we don't have enough of an MP presence on the lake to enforce the current laws as well as new ones. Also I think that better enforcement of current laws would actually cut down on the congestion. As the pro-speed crowd keeps saying that the speed limit will cause high speed boaters from coming to lake, so will an increased enforcement presence. If you want to come to Winni and party it up and drive like a bonehead, you are going to be stopped and fined. This is going to be more of a deterrent than a speed limit. Winni could get the reputation of being a place that you have to drive carefully, because otherwise you will get stopped. I just feel that we lost a chance to actually make a difference to our waterways. The speed limit is nothing more than a band-aid fix for a bigger problem.

Desperate? I think not. I have no stake in this fight. It won't affect me a bit. I could personally care less at this point however think that enacting a speed limit is wrong and will not solve anything.

I am sick and tired of people making false claims that a speed limit IS necessary. The accident "data" does not support it, the speed limit survey did not support it, the survey here did not support it, the only thing that supports it is the campaign of lies and deceit that the supporters have put together to influence people that do not know better...

It's a speed limit only when you want it to be.
 

Island Lover. Reasonable and safe speed is covered in the regulations. As for the lack of any speed limits on the Lake I'll let Bear Islander answer that one for you :) :

Now let's look at Bear Islander message 134 above responding to chipj29
That's Bear Islander's cabin on Bear Island near the NWZ.

BTW, this is an interesting part but I don't have time to follow it all the way back. chipj29 and BI were talking about BI's observation that when an MP boat is around, boaters seem to behave. And in the above message BI quotes,
Originally Posted by chipj29 View Post
Gilligan stated that now (according to BI) , even without a speed limit, the presence of MP slows boats down. (from that Gilligan concludes) Imagine that...they are somehow enforcing a law that doesn't exist.

Better enforcement of the current laws just makes sense.

Stop trying to blame the paddlers!
 

Well, it could just be me – but this is one of the most confusing posts I have read on the forum. Here’s my interpretation of what you wrote:

1.) You agree that I can see another kayak up to a mile away in good visibility.

2.) You claim that powerboat operators can see further than me, which means that all powerboat owners can plainly see my kayak.

3.) Then you say that I need to increase my visibility (because being visible from a mile away isn’t good enough???) – by installing some silly little flag!!!????

And when that doesn’t help (which it won’t) then what?

Strobe lights?

Balloons?

Radar reflectors?

A fleet of MP to protect me???

The problem is not my lack of visibility – the problem is that some powerboat owners are traveling at speeds that are greater than their ability to see. And it has been my experience, that the number that do so is significant enough to create a real danger to people like me, who use smaller boats on the lake.

Here are the facts:
1.) Visibility has NEVER been a problem for me on Squam Lake – because there is a 40 mph speed limit which apparently keeps powerboat operators from traveling faster than their ability to see. So I’m almost certain that a 45mph speed limit on Winni with have a similar effect (although, personally I think that 40 mph is a better limit).

2.) Those little flags are nothing but gimics. They are not large enough to increase visibility to an significant amount. Go to the site and look at the actual photo of that little streamer mounted on a kayak – it is barely visible. The surface area of one of my bright orange paddle blades is greater then any of those flags you linked to – and my moving paddle blade extends higher above the water! Yet when I stated that the most visible part of a kayak is the moving paddles, people here jumped all over me. The problem is most of you haven’t even been in a sea kayak, yet you and others have all sorts of “good” advice for me.

3.) Almost everything sold on the internet has glowing reviews posted about how good it is. Don’t believe everything that you read on the Internet, because not everyone is being totally honest. If this flag is so good, where are the endorsements from major kayak and paddling organizations? Go to any sea kayak or paddling website and do a search on “flag” and all you’ll find is info on attaching a flag on your long sea kayak when you transport it on the roof of your car. Paddling.net is the largest paddling site – go there and check for yourself if you don’t believe me. No serious paddler uses these little flags because they are useless – and they do hinder rescue procedures – like rolling and self rescues – especially on windy days.

4.) Up in post #220 I wrote: “A flag that would be large enough and tall enough to actually make a difference in my visibility would make my kayak very unstable – and it would make my kayak practically impossible to steer in even a moderate breeze, since it would make my kayak like a weather-vane.” That is the truth. In order to increase my visibility to any meaningful degree, a flag would have to have a significantly larger surface area than my paddle blade and it would have to extend above the water higher than my paddle – such a flag would make my kayak totally unstable in any wind.

Stop trying to blame the dangerous conditions on us paddlers, when it doesn’t take a whole lot of common sense to see that high-speed powerboats are the ones putting us in danger.

Too Subjective...
 

Even I, acting as an MP officer, wouldn't attempt a stop (to give a warning) to an estimated 50' error. That's 'way too subjective a call. :(

It's been the Obvious answer for some time. BI wants the boats gone because they tick him off. Fine. I can't look back through hundreds of posts to see how many times he's complained about the NWZ violation. If it were me, it would be daily.

But the fact that it's there, and not enforced, speaks volumes to those that actually care about the issue. Unfortunately, it will take a major accident someday to awaken them as to the stupidity of their ways, and their wasted time and effort trying to feel good by pushing a cause. It has nothing to do with results.

In the end, Enforcement and funding will become their next cause. It should have been their first. Same old crap. Enjoy the BIG Waves.

Unfortunately because of all the misdirections, lies and down right fear mongering that has been completely unjustified and not backed up with any fact it will be like the little boy who cried wolf as far as Concord is concerned!

1 more try but I am worn out and ready to give up.
 

I'm sorry you are so confused by my post Evenstar. On the other hand, the reason I talk to myself is because I'm the only one that always understands me (and then I'm not always sure :laugh:)

It's been around 30 years since I taught courses as adjunct faculty in Boston (an original Forum person "could" have been a student of mine :)). Maybe I'm out of practice but I'll try to answer so you are able to grasp what I am saying. I'm growing weary of this subject.

Your items # 1 and #2 above are correct. I assume that you agree. From your kayak you can see other kayaks over a mile away. It follows that boaters can see at least as far away as you can (probably further) because their vantage point is much higher above the water than you are. I think you follow that so far.

Your conclusion in item #3 is faulty, illogical and somewhat typical of someone not paying attention.

Your kayak being visible from a mile or more away sure is enough - that's my point. We agree that you can be seen from a mile or more but you still claim some boaters" do NOT see you because they are going over 45 mph causing you to fear for your safety. I disagree with that conclusion. Speed is not the issue. Boaters do see you quite well. You admit you can be seen over a mile away.

Your lament is that boaters going faster than 45 mph can not see you soon enough because of their SPEED. That is a faulty conclusion. However, to be helpful, I suggest trying to be more visible than you are currently. To help you feel more secure. If you are afraid that you can not be seen with your current visibility I suggested using a kayak "safety flag" (you called it a silly little flag) to help you be seen better than you are now. I was trying to be helpful lady.


We disagree. If you can be seen from a mile or more it does not matter how fast (within reason) the viewer is going - they will also see you from a mile or more away. (Speed of light and somewhat slower excepted :laugh: - of course I mean those speeds that are safe for the conditions).

Facts do not usually include words like "apparently" and "I'm almost certain". Those are not facts as far as I can tell. There could be other circumstances that cause you to believe that you have no visibility problem on Squam Lake not just speed. It is a different territory from Lake Winnipesaukee. Your conclusion that SPEED of other boats changes their visibility so it is unsafe for you is not justified. Again, 60 mph allows almost a full minute for a boater to react to you from a mile away. Your visibility does not change if the boater is going 30 mph, 45 mph or 60 mph. Your situation is the same. You are just as easily seen. A minute is more than enough time to react. 2 minutes is more time of course but one minute is more than adequate.

I hope I have made that clear enough for you to understand my meaning and motivation.

Other brief :rolleye2: comments:
You have explained your prowess, athletic ability, great physical shape and strength. All the sporting activities you do to keep you in above average condition. You are on paddling teams and do other sporting. We know you have much more experience as a kayaker than normal paddlers. You've told us how sensitive your sea kayak is - how it may be hard for most of us to even sit in one. You go out for a long hard 20 mile kayak workout.

You ask for someone to go with you to see you not being seen by fast boaters. You wonder why no one wants to volunteer to go with you? Who the heck could keep up with you? I know you have a friend you kayak with, I mean us regular (and even irregular :laugh:) forum members. You tell us we have to rent/borrow a kayak to go with you although I first thought you might have a spare or a 2 person kayak.

Mee-n-Mac mentioned going out with you but you claim it was a joke. I missed where the offer was recanted. I do wish you well even though I believe you are misguided regarding the 45/25 speed limit issue. Enforce current laws and regulations. We don't need new ones.

This is too long and I have no more time to edit. I also am getting too frustrated. I hope you are able to understand what I've said.

http://www.opposehb847.com/opposehb847/antihb847.gif

AL, Skipper of the Sea Que

Kayakers love water - Boaters love people

OK,I took YOUR advice and went and googled flags and got these:
From Austin canoe and kayak:
http://www.austinkayak.com/products/...fety-Flag.html

Another one with the description:
Be Seen! When out on your kayak, you are very low to the water. Add to that any wave or swell action and you are often hidden from other boaters view. The 4' tall safety flag will help other boaters see you. Very important in areas with mixed boating traffic!
http://www.austinkayak.com/products/...fety-Flag.html

One more:
http://kayakfishingstuff.com/Merchan...Code=FAC-sflag

Here's another:
Rispy Kayak Safety Flag

"Possiby the most important piece of equipment beyond your pfd and paddle."
The Rispy on the Water -- Photos from Our Tours * Be Seen With A RISPY™® Today
Kayaks and canoes have an extremely low profile – typically 2 ft or less above water - making them hard to be seen in even the best water conditions. This is clearly a major safety problem for everyone on the water, including operators of powerboats, sailboats, fisherman, sea planes, and even other kayaks and canoes.
http://www.touringkayaks.com/gear.htm

How about one more:

Be Seen Flags are designed for one thing, to help you be seen!. And no where is this more important than in water sport recreation. Kayaking, especially kayak fishing is one of the fastest growing outdoor activities today. Kayakers know that being seen by other boaters is difficult at best. Be Seen Safety Flags are here to help.
http://item.express.ebay.com/Sportin...mdZExpressItem


So I didn't believe you and guess what?You were wrong again.There appears to be many safety flags for visibility ON the water when you said all we'll find is flags for transporting kayaks.This was only the first half of the first page.I'm sure there is plenty more.OK now.tell me how I'm picking on you again by following YOUR challenge?Come on now,spin it up.

I can't wait for the reply.

OK SO... Evanstar please clear something up fo me because I am VERY interested in your response here. Is this or isn't this a direct quote from YOUR experience on SQUAM:

While kayaking on Squam last summer, my friend and I were both swamped by a speeding boat that passed within 40 feet of us and never even slowed down. So enforcement of current boating regulations seems to be the bigger issue here.

Go ahead and tell us that this was years ago and it doesn't matter. Explain this away, I am dying to hear the answer.

FYI-This quote was taken from this post http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...0&postcount=36

This is from an incident 4 years ago. This is more recent than what proponents dig up supporting their claims for a need for speed limits.

Care-free Boating, Once Again
 

It could, depending...

How many boozed-up ocean-racers will be absent from Winnipesaukee's waters in 2009? :confused:


Like, maybe...ten years ago?

We didn't have enforcement, yet boating was safe and fun just ten years ago. :(

I'm not saying that you weren't tryng to be helpful - my point is that I'm plenty visible and I tried to explain yet again why adding a flag is not helpful advice - if it would really increase my visibility without negatively affecting my paddling, than I would add a flag in a heartbeat.

I used the word "apparently" because I have no proof - only that I can't explain it any other way, so it is the apparent reason. Please explain why the "different territory" would make me any more visible.

I used the words "I'm almost certain", because we are talking about two different speed limits. If the bill was for a 40 mph maximum speed on Winni, than I could be much more certain. At some point speed impacts the ablility of powerboat operators to see me - I don't what the exact speed is.


What I posted was: Go to any sea kayak or paddling website and do a search on “flag”. So you do a google search and post some links, and then accuse me of being wrong again. (BTW: show me one time that I have been proven wrong on this forum). Most of your links were the exact same ones that Skipper posted - and all of your links (including the one on ebay) were people or companies who are trying to sell the same litle gimic flags. Where are the endorsements from major kayak and paddling organizations? There aren't any. I posted that "Paddling.net is the largest paddling site – go there and check for yourself if you don’t believe me" - did you go there? No serious paddler uses these little flags because they are useless – and they do hinder rescue procedures – like rolling and self rescues – especially on windy days.

So, next time before you accuse me of being wrong, make sure that you actually understand what I posted.

Again,since YOU asked let me make this simple for even a self professed highly educated person.Go to austinkayak.com and search for safety flag and up will appear the page I linked to in my last post with a,yup you guessed it,a safety flag.So this should put to rest your claim of no flag being found on a kayak website and your last one on NEVER being wrong on this forum.

That pop up flag listed first looks great!

I ordered two.

Haven't you guys got better things to do?
 

This one isn't even worth my time, because now you're just trying to find fault with anything that I have ever posted here - and that is just being argumentive.

But here's the factual explanation, which I've already explained at least one in the last month: I made this post more than 3 years ago - before I had ever kayaked on Winni - which was before high-speed powerboat operators on Winni had violate my 150 foot zone because they were going too fast to see me in time.

Austinkayak.com is a store! It is not a major kayak or paddling organization! Retailers sell gimics as well as good gear - promomiting something to make a sale is not a professional endorcement.

My challenge was: "If this flag is so good, where are the endorsements from major kayak and paddling organizations?"

So where are the endorsements from major kayak and paddling organizations? I still don't see any.

Thank you once again for your colorful posting APS. Could you please provide the statistics which indicate that boating in 1997 on Lake Winnipesaukee was safer than in 2007?

Oops, I hit submit too soon on my last reply
 

This is still 100% true "Visibility has NEVER been a problem for me on Squam Lake – because there is a 40 mph speed limit which apparently keeps powerboat operators from traveling faster than their ability to see."

The guy on Squam back in the summer of 2004 clearly saw us and was just being a jerk. I made that clear in that old thread, but you neglected to include that part. So that was clearly not a case of someone who was traveling too fast to see me. So go try to find something else to use against me - because you failed again. And personally I'm really getting tired of defending myself here all the time.:rolleye2:

No he can't
 

No one has posted the statistics so they can't be quoted and a some little comment made about them.

You seem to have come to this irrefutable conclusion that YOUR visibility is based solely on the actions of others, and that you are all but completely removed from any responsibility here. You arrive at your own conclusion that your visibility is somehow directly related to other vessels speed.

This is an extremely weak argument. There are all kinds of power boaters on the lake, and while there are a sufficient number of boneheads, I would still say that the majority are responsible aware boaters. The only commonality seems to be YOU, as you have apparently had an excessive number of close calls where (by your logic) the reason was because other boats were traveling too fast to see you. This reminds me of a statement I've heard in the past that applies to you in this case: "Who **** my pants???"

Whether you want to admit it or not, the majority of boats on the lake don't travel very fast, and a speed limit will not suddenly make you safer and more visible. You're welcome to hold on to that fantasy as long as you like, but no matter what happens with HB847 your 2009 kayak season won't be any different than your 2007 or 2008 kayak season on Winni. Unless of course YOU take some actions to make yourself more visible when you choose to operate in areas frequented by power boats.

You forgot one incident from four years ago:

So you spoke to him afterwards? He told you he clearly saw you? He told you he was just being a jerk to intimidate you? Oh ok. Wow and all this time I thought Squam was the paradise of considerate boaters. I guess you ran into the one jerk on the lake. :rolleye2:

I am really confused by the statement "traveling faster than their ability to see". The broads is ~5.5 miles across at it's narrowest point. I can see all the way across at just about any point. Granted smaller objects are dots but they get larger as you approach and you can pretty much see any object larger than a football from over 300' away. I know from the nosebleeds at Gilette I can see the football at the other end of the field. And can even see a bird sitting on the water when I am cruising @ ~50MPH on my SeaDoo and have plenty of time to drive around it, and I do. It just doesn't make sense to me to make an unfounded statement like that and keep repeating it, there's no merit to it. Again, the problem is stupid people, and speed limit or not they will still be stupid. If we end up with a speed limit absolutely nothing will change, except a few people here will gloat and that's easily ignored, but the lake itself will be no different this Summer. Didn't Ron White say "You can't fix stupid"? I agree.

My statement, when taken in context, is that some powerboat operators travel at speeds that are greater than their ability to see small, slow moving boats in time to stay out of their 150 foot zone.

The key word here is “some”. I never stated that all powerboat owners travel faster than their ability to see. But I’ve also stated that this number is great enough to make the lake dangerous for paddlers.

You might have 20/20 vision – but many powerboat operators have less than perfect vision.

How well can you see when you are heading directly into the sun?

Can you see around islands? Because not all my close encounters has been out on the main lake – some have happened when high-speed boats have come zipping around an island way too fast, and suddenly realized that I was on the other side.

If you're not kidding I think you made a good decision. If my wife went out more than a few hundred feet from shore in her Dirigo I would get her a flag also.

They should definitely be Mandatory. It's getting dangerous out there with all of these boats you cannot see.

So a flag is an inconvience to you? Are you kidding me? An item that makes you more visible and is meant to keep you safe? Geez, sorry to put you out.

A speed limit which makes YOU feel safe is an inconvenience to many that already feel safe but not to you... I think that if a speed limit does passes maybe some of the opponents should get together and come up with a list of ideas for legislation that will ACTUALLY make a difference in safety, such as mandating flags for kayaks more than 150' from shore, or instituting camp zones, or registrations for non-powered vessels in order to provide extra funding for marine patrol for enforcement of laws to keep everyone safe.

Codeman SO WELL SAID!!!!! I love this sentiment. God forbid we ask Evanstar to increase her visibility for our safety. It might "inconvenience" her. We wouldn't want to do that now would we?:emb:

Let's give this venture a name...

The Evenstar Law for Safe Boating

P.S.- No smiles because this is a serious post...

Another sea kayaker weighs in on flags
 

Pricestavern: Thanks. Nice to see input from a sea kayaker other than Evenstar (please don't take offense Evenstar, I often get a 2nd opinion from experienced people - doctors and mechanics for example) .

Do you Pricestavern have any comments about using a safety flag on a sea kayak?

The sailboats that almost run you down in your sea kayak - are they going close to or over the proposed new speed limits?

AL, Skipper of the Sea Que

Kayakers love water --- Boaters love people

Nice try.Here's what you posted: Go to any sea kayak or paddling website and do a search on “flag”.
Austin kayak is a kayak website and of course they are a store,where else would you buy a flag?So now it has to be an orginization?

From the Forum Rules:

“No "trolling" (trying to start arguments and upset people)!”

If these above 3 posts are not examples of trolling I don’t know what is.

This is not a matter of inconvenience – and you all know it, because I clearly explained my reasons for not using a flag several times. Yet you ignore my actual reasons and just continue to attack me and misrepresent my replies in lame attempts to discredit me and to make fun of me yet again. You are obviously trying to force me off these forums, because you can’t stand anyone who doesn’t agree with your narrow views. I have no idea why these types of posts are being allowed, since they are clearly against the forum rules.

The problem is not my lack of visibility, because I am very visible – the problem is that some powerboat owners are traveling at speeds that are greater than their ability to see smaller boats in time to stay out of their 150 foot zone. And this happens regularly enough to create a real danger to people like me, who use smaller boats on the lake.

Here are the facts:
1.) Visibility has NEVER been a problem for me on Squam Lake – because there is a 40 mph speed limit which apparently keeps powerboat operators from traveling faster than their ability to see. So I’m almost certain that a 45mph speed limit on Winni with have a similar effect (although, personally I think that 40 mph is a better limit).

2.) Those little flags are nothing but gimics. They are not large enough to increase visibility to an significant amount. Go to the site and look at the actual photo of that little streamer mounted on a kayak – it is barely visible. The surface area of one of my bright orange paddle blades is greater then any of those flags you linked to – and my moving paddle blade extends higher above the water! Yet when I stated that the most visible part of a kayak is the moving paddles, people here jumped all over me. The problem is most of you haven’t even been in a sea kayak, yet you and others have all sorts of “good” advice for me.

3.) Almost everything sold on the internet has glowing reviews posted about how good it is. Don’t believe everything that you read on the Internet, because not everyone is being totally honest. If this flag is so good, where are the endorsements from major kayak and paddling organizations? Go to any sea kayak or paddling website and do a search on “flag” and all you’ll find is info on attaching a flag on your long sea kayak when you transport it on the roof of your car. Paddling.net is the largest paddling site – go there and check for yourself if you don’t believe me. No serious paddler uses these little flags because they are useless – and they do hinder rescue procedures – like rolling and self rescues – especially on windy days.

4.) Up in post #220 I wrote: “A flag that would be large enough and tall enough to actually make a difference in my visibility would make my kayak very unstable – and it would make my kayak practically impossible to steer in even a moderate breeze, since it would make my kayak like a weather-vane.” That is the truth. In order to increase my visibility to any meaningful degree, a flag would have to have a significantly larger surface area than my paddle blade and it would have to extend above the water higher than my paddle – such a flag would make my kayak totally unstable in any wind.

Stop trying to blame the dangerous conditions on us paddlers, when it doesn’t take a whole lot of common sense to see that high-speed powerboats are the ones putting us in danger.

I clearly stated that in my original post, yet you keep ignoring that part. See #3 above: that’s exactly what I posted earlier - Did you go to Paddling.net and check for yourself, like I posted? "Where are the endorsements from major kayak and paddling organizations?" And a store that has an internet site is not a kayak or paddling website – it’s a retail store! So get off my case!!!

Why would I be kidding?

A fixed flag will get in the way and slow down a recovery. This pop up is a great idea. I hope they work.

As a paddler who frequently is kayaking on the busy waters of Long Island Sound, I am definitely going to be purchasing a flag for those times I'm in areas where I could be in hazard's way. It's exactly the kind of thing I've been looking for. I've considered crossing the Broads in my kayak but the lack of visibility issue has kept me on the sides. That being said, even with a flag I'm going to assume no one sees me and be on my guard.

As for the boats with those big sails; they're overpowered so what do you expect?

So who's fault is that? These examples could be at any speed including 30MPH. What are YOU doing to avoid these situations? Are you paddling during twilight in the middle of a channel. I'm just not seeing how 30MPH is going to "save you" in these situations.

This is precisely why I am careful to kayak in coves along shores and if I venture across open channels I do so judiciously. I do it for my safety and the safety of the power-boaters. Enough with the "it's everybody else's fault but mine attitude." :rolleye2:

...new Meredith kayak biz!
 

How nice to see a local Meredith business adding kayaks to their line-up. Directly across from Lovering Volvo, the Sunseeker Hottub biz just added about a half dozen kayaks which are prominently seen from the road, as you cruise up or down the 30mph, Daniel Webster Hgwy.

It just shows to go, that Winni speed limit hasn't even been passed into law yet, but already we is a-seeing more kayaks in the area.

Big horsepower is for people who are too lazy to paddle a 'yak!:D

Evenstar's entire arguement frames exactly what is wrong with our country today on so many levels. 1 person doesn't like something and grandstands for a law. I am not picking on her, but her unwillingness to take any responsibility on making sure she does what is needed to be safe is exactly the point. I won't change so we must make a law, get out of my way... :)

Kids in sports all get trophies, which reduces the meaning of what sports and competition is all about.

I hear the word hero so much is has no meaning anymore.

And on, and on, and on....

The good news is shortly my interest in the speed limit bill will be over, I will write to the Govenor expressing my desire to have him veto the bill. Whatever he does, he does. My life will not change, and neither will my boating habits. Kids will still get trophies for being in 422nd place, and useless laws will still get written. 100 years from now I'll be gone, but I'll have spent many great years on the lake and we'll all have that.

Visibility
 

I've been thinking about this visibility issue. As painful as it was, I thought back to trigonometry in high school (the best 6 years of my life). Now, I may have this wrong, but I think that if a boater travelling at 60 mph (or any speed actually) spots an object one mile dead ahead and makes an immediate course change of 5 degrees, a mere flick of the wrist, the boater will pass approximately 460 feet to one side or the other of the object (or at least from the spot where the object was when first seen).

Or if you, like me, lack the visual acuity, mental sharpness and reflexes of a varsity athlete, and it takes your muddled brain another 20 seconds to process the information and transmit the command to your wrist, then you will still pass more than 300 feet to one side or the other of that spot.

Five degrees is all it takes to avoid that spot on the water by well more than 150 feet. In the tradition of seafaring ditties and other pnemonic devices handed down through the years(red sky at morning, right red return - except on Winni, etc), I have composed a rhyme to help all you lawless cowboys out there remember this rule of thumb:

When you spy a lonely kayak,
While on your high speed run,
You know that you'll be tempted to
Swing close and have some "fun."
But please resist temptation,
Be nice don't be a turd.
Five degrees is all you need,
Flick your wrist, and not the bird.

alsadad style
 

That made me laugh :laugh: alsadad - Thanks, we need more laughter.

Interesting math - Now I'll have to get a compass to figure out what 5 degrees really is. It would take me too long to dig out my Boy Scout compass :).

Speaking of math. There seems to some height at which it becomes harder to see low objects like kayaks. I think it was oil tanker pilots and that type/size of vessel that were so high up that they could not see canoes and kayaks that well. Fortunately we don't have such large vessels on the lake.

Any time any water , lets go!!!

Now