Just voting it down one year doesn't stop it.
As long as enough registered voting residents sign the petition, it would be on for the next town meeting.

I find it interesting that Tuftonboro sent out a survey asking if people would like a pool in town. One of the options was to have a pool with other towns. One of my fears is that these towns are going to tax people right out of their homes. Or maybe you're right, they think the lake people will pay for all their toys.

So I continue to loosely follow this.... While I think the idea is good an sound, in theory, as someone has pointed out some of the facts are misleading, and some of the money will be a waste.

The biggest waste I see is on the "competition pool".... My wife is a swim coach, 5 lane pools are not at all desirable for any purpose other then training.
They aren't big enough for water polo and even dual meets between high schools find them hard to utilize.... If the idea is for the pool to be a competition pool capable of handing even high school dual meets it needs to have a minimum of 6 lanes and preferable 8... To be able to hold bigger meets such as state meets or district level meets 8 will just barely cover it, and ideal the pool should be 10 lanes wide, with an addition warm up / cool down pool......

If Moultonborough wants to build a decent facility they should do the research and make sure they have the correct parameters.. a 5 lane pool is a joke
Correctly built, I believe they could make a very usable facility, that could be used to generate some level of income for the town.... But what I see is simply a rec. center that will benefit the year round residents at some level, but likely will not even meet their needs in some aspects....

One big problem I have with the proposal is how it has the town so divided between proponents and opponents, with the high and uncertain cost having the potential to impose a significant tax burden on many. We ought to keep in mind that when it comes to legislative matters at the local, state, or federal level, having the votes to enact something doesn't necessarily mean that we ought to. The impact of passing something on a great segment of voters must be considered. We can't always have what we'd like.

see Borin lost

While Borrin lost, Tolman's win is being viewed by the HUB proponents as a win for them on the theory that both Tolman and Borin are of one mind with respect to the HUB. That is probably true, as evidenced by the post on Borrin's Facebook page updating his profile picture, see attached. Colby and Beadle are rabid HUB supporters and Crawford is always a question, so even if Crawford remains opposed to the HUB it looks like it will be 3 to 2 in favor of the HUB on the Selectboard. I believe that Quinlan will reamain opposed. Note Borrin's congratulatory note to Tolman, with no mention of Kevin Quinlan.

Attachment 18131

Selectboard doesn't matter on the issue.
They have more than enough registered signatures to keep putting the issue up for a vote.

So the voters overall attitude toward the proposal is what will be the deciding factor each time.

Correct.

The voters that are there, and vote, will determine outcome. Need at least 60% (3/5ths) of ballots cast of the secret ballots to prevail.

Only takes 25 registered voters to petition and place on the town meeting warrant for a vote.

Hub
 

From looking at the documentation on the Hub, it will be a facility that will be paid out of my taxes, yet will require me to pay more to use it. It also looks like it will add 400 to 500k a year in additional taxes to be collected to make up for the loss the facility will generate.

If this is such a good idea, how about the people who put in on the ballot, use their own money to bring a business like this to Moultonborough.

Clermont has a similar facility that loses several hundred thousand each year that must be made up by the tax payers.

The Pool / Aquatics Center needs to go. Never was part of what town set money aside for a study in 2021. It is the main driver of long term costs and what is sinking Claremont and Dover already.

If this is such a need...I do not agree that it is....then let the HUB gang fund raise for it, get a 99 year lease of land from the town, build and then operate it. People need to wake up and not be snowed by a few !

Some years ago, we had a commercial "club", pool, gym, indoor tennis, track, weights, etc plus meeting rooms, and a night club area, drinks, music, dancing. It lasted a couple of years and failed. The YMCA was able to take it over at a huge discount. The fitness stuff is still operating, the nightclub is now an after school childcare facility. It requires a large population base to work, maybe 100,000(?) from 4 cities/towns. No tax support except for whatever they get as a non-profit.
2 points:
1. You need to buy something at bankruptcy prices
2. You need a large, year-round, population base.

The pool/aquatics center is also the irony underlying the whole thing--the town is already blessed with one of the country's greatest aquatic centers

Irony until you consider the greatest aquatic center is only above 60 degrees about half the year.


I was leaning against the hub for a while, but I'm slowly leaning toward it. My biggest reservation about it is that there are 10 other pork type expenditures waiting for the up vote on this to bring them to town meeting and say this got through, now it's our turn.

Tough question.

Vote against HUB at town meeting
 

Tonight at 6. Go! There are no valid excuses! If you care about excess spending, do not stay at home watching tv! We need your vote! No to HUB!

its a lot of money and operating cost based on like centers is understated

Aquatic center = pool.


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I don’t live in Moultonborough, but I am following this. It seems to me that the population of the Town of Moultonborough is just too small to support such a monstrosity.


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At Town Meeting now. Huge crowd. Long lines of people still waiting to check in. Supposed to start at 6:00 PM sharp. Not going to happen.

Today's meeting was rescheduled, people were in line from the high school out to the road, waiting in line, auditorium full.
It just says something about Our Town leader ship, no pre planning
Just call a vote for $17 million in a building that does not have the capacity of the voters,



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Fastfury is 100% correct. The worst managed meeting I have ever seen, or more accurately, a non meeting, since it never started. After waiting for 35 minutes for the meeting to start (promptly at 6:00 per the Town Moderator), it did not take place and will have to be re-noticed and rescheduled. So a Town which cannot plan for and manage a meeting is going to run a monstrosity of a Community Center? I have it on good authority that a person in Town who knows what is going on went to the Town a week or so ago and told them that the turnout would be huge and to make contingency plans for overflow space in the gym and cafeteria, with remote screens, mikes, ballot boxes and assistant moderators. I am told that the Town dismissed her recommendations with a laugh. The Town did remote meeting rooms during Covid and while there were a few minor problems, that process worked. If this disaster of an attempted meeting did nothing but show the need for the Town to adopt the provisions of SB2, then the wasted evening was worth it.

The Town Moderator, Paul Punturieri, should resign his office since he is clearly responsible for much of this debacle this evening.

From the Facebook page run by Paul Punturieri:

"Please arrive early for check in for tomorrow's Town Meeting at the Academy auditorium. Check in will begin shortly after 5pm. We expect a large crowd and we will begin the meeting at 6pm sharp."

Well said, winni83
 

The whole fiasco was a disgrace, and we are wondering how they will manage the rerun, given the fact that town management skills are lacking. I am hoping that
HUB fails and that the voters see the need for SB2 this time around.

Town Meeting
 

I was there as well, got there early and still had to wait. Why would they set up the registration in the auditorium when they have a whole school to use? As mentioned before, if this doesn't validate the need for SB2, I don't what will.

Next question, is where or what are they going to do, to accommodate this many people. I also hope it is scheduled on a Saturday, so even more can attend.

Its like pre counting and suspending if you don't get your answer

I made it to the entrance at 6:30
Watched many older people waited with Canes and walkers
Waiting
They had 4 handicap parking spaces , the Town shuttle bus was stuck in traffic,
The entrance is down the hill for away from parking,
no traffic control at the entrance.

Only 1272 people showed up for the general election, I think that's the problem.
The selectmen will probably have a closed
meeting to figure out what to do



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As i understand it, it is not the selectman's responsibility. It is up to the Moderator to figure things out with the help of the Town Administrator. Total disaster. Just another example of poor planning.

Another post by our clueless Town Moderator. We we are all human, but that does not excuse incompetence.. His attempt to redeem himself is pathetic.

‘“The largest crowd we ever had at town meeting prior to tonight was in 2019 when we had around 650 people check in. The expected attendance tonight was thought to be closer to 800 which with the use of the lobby and the aisles without blocking the exit doors was just enough to safely accommodate that number.
The moderator, selectmen, town clerk, town administrator, facilities, public works, school personnel and many town employees all work together to plan and conduct these meetings. Decisions are not made without a great deal of thought and effort, but at the end of the day the buck stops with us. This was an unfortunate situation, and we will do the best we can to avoid a recurrence.
Hindsight is always 20-20, but unfortunately it doesn't change the outcome. It is also not particularly helpful to be unnecessarily critical of people who are essentially volunteers working on your behalf. We are human and not omniscient.”

They would just place it on next year's meeting agenda.

I waited in line, I could see probably half of it from where I was, this line was after the space was filled with people. Honestly every town meeting should have that many voters at it. I think the right decision was made to postpone the meeting. I also think that there was no way for the powers that be to predict that large of a turnout to the meeting. I think they acted properly in deciding not to go ahead with the meeting. I can't wait for the rescheduled meeting.


Too late to figure out how to rotate this file, it displays properly in my editor.

They are probably hoping less will attend.

As someone who likes to say that I write off my Moultonborough bill as a charitable donation on my taxes since I can't vote there, I would love to say this is hilarious except for the fact that a lot of people wasted their time last night. The Moultonborough Speaks explanation is pretty lame. They expected 800 people? I think I saw more Hub signs (pro and con) on my route up to the lake last weekend. They drastically underestimated the number of people that have strong feelings on both sides of this.

I'm pretty sure as I type this there's a group in town drafting a 5,000 seat stadium proposal to raise at the rescheduled town meeting. This will accommodate everyone for future town meetings. The stadium will be funded by local minor league teams in the area. Just like all those local swim clubs will fund the Hub.

Last night at 10:18 PM I received the following message from member breathe easy:
“Hey Winni83 – who are you? Stop hiding behind a pseudonym”.

To answer the question posed directly: It is none of your business. If Don thinks that any of my posts crossed some kind of line, he would delete them. Now why would you want to know who I am? Are you thinking about some kind of retaliation or pay back?

I really don’t care who breathe easy is and have no idea as to his or her identity. But some interesting facts. . Now I am no detective, but breathe easy’s avatar is a picture of a person’s lungs. Paul Punturieri, our town moderator, has a blog called Moultonborough Speaks, but he now only posts under that blog on Facebook. The about section on Moultonborough Speaks describes Paul Punturieri as a “Respiratory Care Practitioner”. Draw your own inferences.

I will post any additional private messages I receive.

Paul P hid his name behind his blog for quite sometime, I recall! Tell him to pound sand.

Idea for voters already registered
 

A friend of mine came up with an idea whereby voters, already signed in to vote last night, could go to town hall and cast their votes. Sounds simple….right? What could possibly go wrong? After mulling it over, my solution would be to allow those voters, already signed in, to go to the town clerk’s office during specific days and times, and complete the ballot, much the same way as an absentee ballot, and then all votes would be SEALED, not to be counted until town meeting day, under well supervised circumstances. This would avoid “irregularities “ in the count, if you get my drift. Legal feedback, anyone? I should amend that to say that anyone already registered to vote last night could forget my suggestion and just go to the newly scheduled town meeting, whenever that is.

After I got home from the aborted meeting, I sent some suggestions for the next attempt to have a meeting to the Town Administrator, via the town's website.

I suggested quadrupling the number of check-in tables, with a shorter range of alphabet letters for each. I also suggested moving the tables out of the auditorium, to alleviate the congestion there.

The long corridor adjacent to the auditorium entrance would be better and also be positioned better between the auditorium, cafeteria, and gymnasium, all of which may be needed to handle the large crowd expected. Better signs for the tables would help, placed where they could be seen from a distance down the corridor.

Finally, it would be useful to have people enter the building from more doors than just the one by the auditorium. Some of that was happening anyway, but the long line to get to the check-in tables inside the auditorium led to the long line out the nearby door and back up the driveway.

More complaints about last night's failure won't help. Let's be constructive and help the town's officials with good ideas to make things work more smoothly next time.

The beest recommendation is to vote YES for SB2.
As stated above. ALL can vote at their leisure on voting day.

Problem solved.

Moultonborough would need to vote to adopt the SB2 standard before the format could be used.

Yes. BUT this recreation circus is going to come back and back and back.

So for future debacles of voting - SB2 would solve current issue of delay.

I would imagine when the SB2 vote comes up at the rescheduled meeting someone will point out that last night's craziness wouldn't have happened if SB2 was in place.

I don't believe this would be the case. I think for a hot item like this the same crowd would have happened SB2 or not, and if the venue had been able to accommodate all the people there would have been a lot of hollering and screaming when people realized their ability to debate and question was severely limited by SB2. I'm voting against SB2.

The video of the non meeting is up on Town Hall Streams, look at it beginning at about 29 minutes. Our Town Moderator basically threw the Fire Chief under the bus and put the blame on him for doing his duty. When in fact the reason that the meeting did not take place was lack of planning by the Town Moderator. Does anyone think that even if the capacity of the auditorium had been exceeded by a mere 100 people or so that there were plans in place to deal with that?

See:

https://townhallstreams.com/stream.p...id=51&id=52862