Groton Wind Farm
 

I don't know if this is on point as it isn't directly a "Lakes Region" issue but I'll give it a try. I am totally opposed to the Northern Pass project which continues to move sideways as an issue for now, but if you happen to be in the Plymouth area on Tenney Mountain Highway and look just beyond Tenney Mountain over to the town of Groton, what you'll see on the horizon may surprise you as it did me and my wife. A 24 wind turbine farm is being constructed in the town of Groton. I believe 12 of the turbines are now up. The project is scheduled to be completed in the January 2013 time frame.

My unerstanding is that the power generated from the wind turbines will be dumped into the new england power grid, and the town of groton will receive significant tax money.

It's a stunning site as it changes forever the view of Tenney Mountain. I guess residents of the area were opposed to the farm going forward, but the NH court system threw their case out.

Just wondering if anyone has seen the turbines on the horizone and what your thoughts are. Is this the future?

Wind Farm
 

To top things off, the wind farm is foreign owned and the power is actually going to the southern states. While everyone is focusing on the Northern Pass, this issue snuck through. Now that it is taking notice everyone in the region is p.o.

What other projects came through under the Northern Pass smoke screen?

I actually like the looks of these...think they are a great feat of engineering.

Looks like the 24 turbines are up on a ridge just to the west of the Plymouth Wal-Mart, just beyond the closed Tenney Mt ski area, and close to the Rumney Rocks rock climbing area in the White Mountain National Forest.

Wonder if the turbines can be seen from the Wal-Mart parking lot? COuld be very scenic what with the sun setting behind the turbines as seen from Wal-Mart?

Anyone seen the big, new, huge wood utility poles running along Tenney Mountain Highway, and Highland Ave in Plymouth recently installed to carry the electro-magnetic energy from the turbines to the power line close to Route 93?

eye sore
 

Funny, I just noticed them yesterday. What an eyesore.

Same here - just noticed them yesterday (Monday). Never saw them before. Maybe it is because the air was unusually clear, and it was a very nice sunset.

Quite visible from the West side of the Rattlesnake Island Peninsula.

I don't know why, but...cell towers bother me...windmills don't. There are a bunch of windmills that have gone up in the Bethel/Rangely ME area, and they looked good to me...

www.town-of-groton.com/grotonwind/Groton...

Paying for half the town's yearly budget probably goes a long way to enhance the view of the wind turbines as viewed from the town!

Windmills or oil rigs......make mine windmills, please.

I agree, I don't know why everyone complains about them. If I had to choose between a ridge covered in wind turbines or a big smokestack, that's not much of a choice...

Windturbines are great when they work. The BIG ones are very difficult to maintain because they are way up there on a tower. We have a Three Year Old ($3M) town owned 1.5 MW turbine. The nacelle is 188 feet above ground. Two months ago the gear box failed.

To fix it, the rotor disc has to be taken down, then the nacelle. The crane cost is about $10,000 a day+ set up costs, because it's a special crane for big heights and weights. The quickest way to fix it is to replace the large gearbox (30,000 pounds) with the nacelle on the ground. The gear box is rumored to cost +/- $450,000.

The Canadian company that built it went bankrupt two years ago..the 10 year warranty went "PooF". The town has no Spare Change so the turbine sits there doing nothing. It WAS a sight to see when it was running.

There is No Free Lunch :look: NB

From our place on Rattlesnake
 

They are quite visible from Rattlesnake Island. Here's what things looked like this (Tuesday) evening in the sunset.

The first picture is a normal view. The 2nd is zoomed in.

Beautiful sunset with Diamond Island in the foreground.

Windmills raze hell with the bird population which is all ready in severe decline .

Energy
 

With gasoline prices so high....we need to " drill Baby drill"...anywhere, everywhere, ....then sell to the highest bidder...great profits for the oil companies and gas prices will go down....Won't they??:emb: Get that oil pipeline finished...will produce zillions of new jobs. Or we can just put up some more of those great big windmills...

Really? Where's all the frigging Canadian Geese coming from?

Actually, the wind farm is owned by the Canadians, and they are running them like giant fans, sucking the geese from Canada and blowing them our way :eek: :eek: :eek:



:laugh:

I am no expert, but around here in southern NH, the bird population seems to be thriving/exploding/diversifying. I'm seeing huge numbers of a huge variety of birds lately.

Saco, Maine put up a windmill maybe three years ago and it didn't do what it was supposed to do so now it is for sale.

Is THAT where the geese are coming from, Wifi?????:laugh:

From the photos above, it seems like the wind turbines are so far away and so relatively small that they can hardly be seen except through a long distance lens, and besides that, they turn a totally undeveloped, wooded mountain ridgeline high up in Groton, NH, into a wind farm that makes electro-magnetic energy that goes straight into the national grid system. What's not to need about that?

Wind turbines seem to work just like a sailboat as both put the wind to work.


Locals used to laugh and say something like " ..... Groton......what's in Groton ......there ain't nuth'n in old Groton because everything is rotten in Groton ........."

That Groton wind farm is a pretty good, amazing energy engine if you ask me, and I hope it works out good!

I have seen these turbines and I really have mixed thoughts about them...If they work, and continue to work ...then I guess, it will be ok for many...

I spend time each year back home in N.H. and this year the max so far at five months...in the Lincoln area....What really upsets me is, each year I come north and I see more and more cell phone towers on tops of mtns...A beautiful picturesque view, ruined by cell phone towers...Are they really necessary...People seemed to be adjusting to the lack of service when they weren't there...
I travel through Franconia several times per week..NO, AT&T service in that area...soooo, if I really need to use the cell phone, I wait a few miles ...and of course, I always get calls while in the dead area...so it goes into my list to call back later....I adjust....! Why couldn't these towers be built in the area of the present power lines...or on the edge...the view is already blighted there...All I can figure is, there must be money involved...follow the money trail...as the saying goes...
They can always use fake tree branches on them to make them look like fake hugh trees...that's what they do in sunny Fla....What a rediculous sight that is...

Leaving aesthetics aside, the scary thing about wind farms is economics. It's impossible to tell if they are viable as a long term econonic investment. Today's politics and goverment cloud the real math with magic money, rainbows and unicorns.

Why does the math matter? Because if they don't make enough money to cover their ongoing maintenance, eventually we will all be left looking at broken dangerous hulks owned by long bankrupt investors.

THere is one like this in Louden on Route 106, I almost did not see it, they did a decent job of hiding it but could have been better, it was right on the eds of a tree line - a cell tower that is

Windmills are a farce
 

Windmills are a farce. They don’t supply consistent power. I own almost 100 acres in Groton. The natural beauty of the area was its attraction before the windmills started. Now, it's destroyed for our lifetime. My property abuts the Cockermouth State Forest, in which you can hike to Bald Knob and Mount Crosby and view the surrounding mountains and Newfound Lake. Now when you hike to the summit, you look at windmills on Fletcher and Tenney Ridge. Some of the windmills are located on land leased from Green Acres Land Company. Jane Difley, president of the Society For The Protection Of NH Forests worked on an easement funded through the state of NH and the Forest Society to secure 3.6 million dollars in federal funding to buy a conservation easement on land owned by Green Acres Woodlands, a private timberland owner. She took no stance on the issue of windmills when it was being fought, even though the Cockermouth State Forest is a Society property, which abuts the Green Acres land, and the windmills directly impact the Cockermouth view shed. William Wadsworth, who donated this beloved 1003 acres to the Forest Society, is rolling in his grave. She is fighting Northern Pass tooth and nail and lobbied to protect the view shed surrounding Mount Monadnock in Jaffrey. She has no problem with 24 - 398 foot wind turbines, but is fighting 130 to 185 foot electrical poles. The Newfound Audubon Center has a sanctuary located on the northern end of Newfound Lake in Hebron, within a short distance from these turbines. Propellers chop birds.

I attended the final state Site Plan Review Meeting for the project in Concord last spring. The review committee spent most of the meeting questioning their lawyer to cover their butts and quizzing if any repercussions could be thrown back at them for approving the project. The only condition the committee upheld was a bird mitigation study. Only one Selectmen from Groton attended and he showed up late.

Iberdrola Renewables LLC is a division of parent company Iberdrola, SA, Spain’s #1 energy group, which received several million dollars from our government to construct this wind farm. They prey on small towns, with simple-minded officials, with small budgets. Just ask the residents of Fairfield, NY where the same company built the wind farm known as Hardscrabble Wind Farm. Windmills are literally in resident's back yards and they experience shadow flicker through their windows and interference with electronic devices. Iberdrola refused to pay a cement company they hired in construction due to issues with product quality. In turn, the cement company placed liens on property owners in Fairfield leasing land to Iberdrola for the windmills. Now, their real estate is frozen and they can't sell it.

It's a win win for Iberdrola at the expense of quality of life for humans. Groton didn’t need the tax revenue. We have little infrastructure. The supposed 20,000 homes this will supply power to don't care where their power comes from. Wind power can't be stored, so it's unreliable. After the wind farm was approved by the state, Iberdrola brought up doubt if the power lines were adequate enough to handle the load. That is why the very large poles are now being installed on Tenney Mountain Highway, much to people’s surprise. Not only are they large and imposing, there are two for every old one. The company plays games and hid this fact during the approval process.

There is a history of windmills causing severe fires. The roads to maintain the windmills are accessed from the Plymouth side, not Groton, so the burden of fire danger falls on the town of Plymouth. The land is rugged in the surrounding area and the potential for a devastating forest fire exists. I am worried about my property because I am so close.

Probably the largest tragedy of all is the visibility of these eyesores from pristine Newfound Lake. And now, I’m reading they can be viewed from Rattlesnake Island. Don't think it can't happen in your backyard. Consider lobbying your town to adopt an ordinance against windmills.

I couldn't agree more!

I've never heard of a windmill causing a fire...hmmmm

I guess they happen...

http://www.australianclimatemadness....rbine_fire.jpg

There are a lot of YouTube videos showing various windmill failures and fires. When they do fail, the results are often spectacular. Many times the result of brake system failures - high wind puts the windmill out of control and eventually the whole thing blows apart.

Of course, conventional electrical systems fail all the time. Heck, there was just a fire on Sleepers Island earlier this year (or last year, I can't remember) caused by an electrical distribution system failing. I also had a similar problem at my own house about 5 years ago. Transformers explode, etc. It's just the way it is. Nothing is completely foolproof or failproof.

Wind Mills
 

It will be years before we know the cost effectiveness of wind power and if it is not fiscally positive the companies will be bankrupt and we will have the eye sores standing for decades.

Todays modern computer controlled wind turbines "Feather" their blades as wind speed increases, and fully feather at about 45 MPH of wind speed. When fully feathered the blades will not spin..only idle this way or that in the gusts. The computer keeps the fan disc/nacelle facing into the wind.

A typical 1.5 MW turbine will have a max rotation of 18-19 RPM. The gearbox will Step Up that RPM at a ratio of 1:100..or 1900 RPM at the generator. Smaller turbines spin faster and larger ones spin slower. A 2.0 MW turbine might spin at 14-15 RPM.

An important factor in RPM is limiting "Tip Speed" of the blades. A 1.5 MW turbine applys about 2000 HP to the generator at max load. :) NB

Good deal for the town?
 

I do not know what the fiscal situation is in Groten but I have a feeling that is is a bad deal for a tourist town.

I picture this...

A company builds some wind turbines on Red Hill. (If the land were available) The land is in the middle of nowhere and is cheap. Not much of a tax gain for the town.

After construction there are very few jobs generated (no pun intended) and I can see no spin off jobs generated in the town either.

The value of homes on Lake Kanasaka would have to drop. Most are there for the lake and the view. A drop in property values means more taxes for everyone in town.

I could be way off here but I can't see working in a place that depends on tourist trade.

BTW...I work for a company that is the largest producer of wind power in the world and as an engineer I have to admit that I think that they are kind of cool. Me bad.

Misty Blue

We have a 675 Kw Vestas in town on the grounds of a private school. It was there years before our "Town Owned" turbine and still runs every day without any issues that anyone is aware of.

The Town elected to go for the low bid. We got a $4M turbine for $3M. BTW the siting of our Town turbine is excellent. It's on the highest hill on the island and can be seen for Miles through 360 degrees in ANY direction. Frank...? "How come that thang don't RUN"..? :D NB

Rattlesnake Mtn and Newfound Lake
 

I hear folks over at NewFound Lake can see the turbines and the town is asking why they weren't involved in the preliminary hearings.

I also hear you can see the turbines from Rattlesnake Mountain in Holderness. The folks there are upset too!

My guess is that there was p*** poor planning up front. If there were plans to spoil the horizon as far south as Winni and the Paul Bunyan poles on Tenney Mountain highway and it was not given, they should be stop before anything further developed.

What ever happen to the first wind farm on Crotched Mountain? I was told the feds and state bankrolled that project and it was eventually bankrupted. I was told the towers and equipment were vandalized and eventually taken down at the state expense. Concrete posts are the only thing left.

Driving north or south on Rt 93 just south of Exit 26 in Plymouth, as well as when you get off at Exit 26 and drive west onto Rt 25-Tenney Mountain Highway, you get a good look-see at about a dozen of the 200' high towers and the lengthy three-blade propellers attached to each tower as viewed from aproximately five to ten miles away.

I have always thought that NH has incredibly expensive monthly electric bills and supposedly none of the wind turbine electricity is being used in NH, with it all gong to down south somewhere. .......oh well.......
.

Didn't want to bring this up. FLL made me do it. NH already EXPORTS Power. NB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_po..._New_Hampshire

Correct
 

NH generates 100% of it's own power, all while having some if not the highest electric rates in the nation.
So any attempt by power companies to bring wind or towers to our state is just a means to bring cheaper power to the southern states, it does nothing at all for NH. And all those tax savings eventually go away when they apply to the Federal Government for a tax abatement and usually get it.

This how screwed up N-star is, they sell electricity to their customers in Canada at say .10 per unit, if they get the power lines to go through NH they are promising to sell power to the US at .08 per unit. the Canadians are up in arms over this and against the northern Pass project as well.
The numbers are only used for example.

Oh and good ol boy Romney has a personal interest in the Northern pass project.

Is this thread now becoming another political advertisement ?

Wind farms are an ugly scar on our beautiful mountains.A total waste of money,as was Obama's billions wasted on bankrupt solar power.
Natural gas is clean and plentiful.Wind and solar power never got a plane off the ground

Wind farms are an ugly scar on our beautiful mountains.A total waste of money,as was Obama's billions wasted on bankrupt solar power.
Natural gas is clean and plentiful.Wind and solar power never got a plane off the ground

To really really really understand and comprehend the need and use for electro-magnetic energy ......aka......"electricity" ...... you must go for one day, 24-hours, with absolutely no electricity in your home or business by turning off the power at your main panel.......just to experience the importance and use of electricity in your daily life. It will give you a very serious appreciation for electricity.


If the Groton wind farm proves out good, then maybe similar wind turbines could be built in the very nearby mountains in the White Mountain National Forest in some of the less visited spots like Mt Isolation or Mt Tecumseh. Mt Tecumseh already has many ski lift towers so why not build some wind turbine towers too?

Wind Farm
 

Does shovelling up all the dead birds count as a green job?