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Speed limit proponents
FYI I just got an email from someone on this board letting me know the speed limit people are at it again. They are trying to push the new bill HB162 through by organizing together. I got an email asking me to join their cause when its clear from my posts on this matter that im against it. Just want to let those who are against it that "they" are up to no good again.
This is the message: Sir, There is a group gathering to support HB162 and get a speed limit on Winni. We were the ones who convinced the RR&D committee to retain it for further review. We are gaining members and momentum and are very optimistic about the chance for success, despite what you may be reading on the forum. Although the opposition is well-funded, we are finding that we clearly have the numbers on our side. "Regular folk" are tired of being afraid to use the lake. It seems that you might be in agreement with us. Please visit www.winnfabs.com. Hope you are willing to pitch in. |
Is it just me
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1'st thx for the notice rickstr66. I suspected as much when I saw APS's post. Because I think Webmaster Don would rather not have another discussion on the speed limits (SL) I'll refrain from commenting on that matter until I think he thinks it's OK. (reread it 3x, I think that makes sense ;) ) 2'nd - I just have to comment on 1 thing the proponents mention that bothers me more than the SL concept itself. To paraphrase one of the points I think is being used to justify passage of the 45/25 SL ... whether or not there's proof that the lake is actually unsafe, even if it's just the perception of a growing danger, their right to use the lake is effectively being taken away because of their fear... Have I understood this correctly ? That even if the fear is unfounded, the fear is enough, in and of itself, to restrict other peoples actions. Shouldn't the facts matter ? Shouldn't perception be based upon the facts ? I really am hoping I'm not reading it the way the author intended it :confused: |
Funny
Look at the Coast Guard statistics on www.winnfab.com (pages 8-9). According to this "Since 1991, recreational boating fatalities have continued along a downward trend even though the number of registered boats has increased by 15%". Also PWC accidents have had a similar downward trend of incidents since 1996. In NH, accidents are down over 50% since 1999 (page 32). Boats in the 26-40' (the size range where most boats considered "go fast boats" would be) range made up only 10% of accidents, a 1/3 were under 16 feet and over a third were between 16-26 feet. And my final statistic, "Nearly 80% of all reported fatailities occurred on boats where the operator had not received boating safety instruction".
Was this the smartest thing to link to their website proposing a speed limit? I think not. Define excessive speed. Excessive speed could be going too fast in a 16 foot skiff (not coming close to the proposed speed limit but exceeding recommended handling for a boat of its size) with an outboard, or taking a fast turn in a pontoon boat or family cruiser putting its occupants in an unsafe condition. Education and enforcement of current laws is the key, not a speed limit. I would rather see the MP chasing boating law infractions such as 150' safe passage than sitting in the broads with a radar gun. |
Is this a registered group or PAC?
Not sure how I feel aobut the whole topic, but I did take time to check the website. Curious, but not a single name to be found as to who or what controls this group. Also, if you make a donation, who or where is the money going? I checked the Secretary of State's website and could find no record of this group as either a business or non-profit entity. Has this group filed the appropriate paperwork to receive funds, operate legally as a PAC or non-profit in this State? I would think that with all the ethics scandals going on at the Statehouse that most legislators would steer clear of any group with money that has not followed the appropriate rules. Hopefully this anonymous group has or is filing all the necessary paperwork to accomplish their stated goals. Wouldn't it be ironic if they are breaking the law to create new law? :confused:
Just food for thought..... :) |
Lake Restrictions
I viewed the site & restauranteer is correct, I did not see any names either. However, from what richstr66 posted earlier we know Frank M is somehow associated with that group. Frank M is Frank M on this forum ****. He spearheaded the effort to designate Black Cove a NRZ last fall & there is a thread covering that issue.
There is no doubt in my mind that there are several people who use Winni & I believe many may be property owners, who wish to eliminate any activity on the lake they do not like or agree with. There is a certain arrogance among people who support various restrictions on the lake that they know best & how dare any of us who do not agree question them. I have witnessed the arrogance first hand. And they justify their position by saying they are doing it in the name of safety, the environment, the Loons etc. When in fact, I believe(just my opinion)they are doing it just because they do not like it & in their OPINION its not right. Who are these people to say its not right to raft, to operate a GFB at speeds they deem excessive, to operate a cruiser they deem too big, to set horsepower limits they deem excessive. Rafting, speed limits, horsepower limits etc are all separate threads on this forum but I beleive they all have one thing in common, the individuals who are behind the support of these restrictions. The speed limit & no rafting bills are just the start, next will be horsepower limits & beyond that who knows. I also agree with the sentiments stated earlier that some users of the lake may have a perception that is not true or unfounded. I use the lake every weekend from ice out to mid October & I do not see many of the things that supporters of these restrictions claim exist. I am sure that most if not all of the complaints have occurred at one time or other but not to the extent & frequency that they claim. Many of the complaints(I believe) are exaggerated. I have not witnessed rafters littering, playing loud music, blocking passage to ones property, anchoring too close to ones property & partying in general making a nuisance of themselves. I have not witnessed GFB'S going too fast in a certain situation or area, creating an unsafe or dangerous situation for other boaters. I have not witnessed large cruisers creating a dangerous situation for smaller boaters with their wake, creating too big a wake too close to shore so as to perpetuate erosion. One thing I have witnessed with disturbing frequency is violation of the 150' rule & 90% of the time or more it is committed by someone in a small or smaller boat, bowrider, with family on the boat & they will even smile & wave to you as if they have no clue what they are doing & I believe they do not have any clue about boating safety or regulations. Now I know this was longwinded & maybe I am on a soapbox but I felt it had to be said. Frank M & his organization WinnFABS is correct about one thing, we should all e-mail, write, call etc our legislators, the Governor etc to let them know our position & I and many of my boating friends have been doing that & will continue too as long as there are people who wish to restrict activity on Winni. I think the supporters of these restrictions will be surprised to see that there are just as many if not more Winni users & boaters who are not in support of these restrictions. |
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frank m. |
Will the real Frank M. please fess up?
Geesh Frank, are you confused? Here's your post from 9/27/04 on the subject of Black Cove;
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Rick,
Thanks for the heads-up. As you should recall, I too was a huge opponent to the speed limit. In fact, I was one of the speakers against the bill at the January hearing. I saw the speed limit as another restriction on personal freedom. But my visit to the link you provided, www.winnfabs.com, really opened my eyes to this issue. I now recognize that my earlier opinion was based on a lot of disinformation being presented as fact by those whose profits would be impacted by this bill, and by my ignorance of the much broader impact that a lack of such a limit has been having on the freedoms of the public at large. I guess the marinas and cigarette boaters had successfully tricked many of us into believing that it was their "right" to buzz around the lake at dangerously fast speeds, and that it was the general public that was being selfish. The lack of "statistics" was used to prove that speed is not dangerous, when in fact, there were no statistics even being recorded about speed, so how could there be any proof. The fallibility of the "statistics" argument became very apparent when I saw that the two boats that flipped over on the lake last summer while speeding very fast and all alone, one going 90MPH in a straight line on the Broads, and another going over 70MPH in Alton, were recorded "statistically" as reckless operation. I also so that Director Barrett had testified that NO speed was too fast for the lake, and had earlier testified that a no-wake zone in Center Harbor would actually create danger (?). In consideration of this, how could I take any of his January testimony seriously? I just felt so foolish after researching this a bit more, and wanted to make sure that others, who were tricked like me, take a more serious look at the facts before taking too firm a stance on the wrong side of this issue. |
Wow, a lot of confused people today!
Ski man,
But when a young lady asked in a poll back in October "how could anyone not enjoy boating" you replied with the following: Quote:
Hmmmm, where was your concern for "personal freedoms" then? I'm just "starvin'" for the answer :liplick: |
Afraid of using the lake?
I notice in the message to rickstr66 from WinnFABS that "Regular Folk" are tired of being afraid to use the lake. Well, myself and all my boating friends are "Regular Folk" who do not own GFB's or large Carver type cruisers and we are not afraid to use the lake. We do not feel threatened by other users of the lake. We welcome all kinds of boaters and users alike as long as they abide by the laws and use common sense and courtesy. This sounds like the same kind of scare tactic the liberal left media used several times prior to the most recent presidential election to help elect Senator Kerry and discredit President Bush. Of course we all know the outcome, it didn't work.
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It's interesting that the exact same small group who felt then that the most important loon sanctuary in the state should have been left open to unlimited partying seems to band together at every opportunity to oppose even the most reasonable limits on even the most outageous types of behavior. I think that one could start a thread on this forum about drunk driving and this same small group would start yapping about how DWI laws are a restriction on their personal freedoms and just a ploy by the poster to further his own agenda. I can't imagine what it would be like to live in the lawless world that you guys seem to want. Luckily, there are some of us who stand up for ourselves. |
Restaraunt,
I understand that you take pride in your ability to search through posts, but I don't see how that previous statement conflicts with what I just said. |
restauranter,
Since we are quoting, didn't you just say this morning; Quote:
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Propeller,
You may want to adjust your foil hat, you wouldn't want the "liberal media" to find out that you're on to their conspiracies. |
Ridiculous
Geesh Frank, now you are being downright ridiculous to suggest that anyone on this Forum would condone drunk driving. Again the ridiculous unfounded scare tactic.
Reasonable limits? Again, reasonable by whose definition. You are exhibiting the arrogance I alluded to in my earlier post. How dare anyone question the righteous Frank M who knows better than all of us whats best. By the way, we who are opposed to the restrictions that have been discussed previously are doing what you suggest. WE ARE STANDING UP FOR OURSELVES. |
Thanks for the compliment Ski Man!
But I really think you and Frank need to go and read your own commnets on boating and Black Cove over the past year. It is not me, or Propellor or anyone else putting words in your mouths, or taking you out of context. Your true thoughts on this matter are published comments of record of this site....it only took but a few minutes of searching to flush that out.
Of course you and Frank are entitled to your opinions on the matter, and your comments and posts are, I am sure, just as welcome as the opposing views. Just don't cheapen your position by trying to hide from your past posts, that's all! Bon appetit! :liplick: |
Restaraunt,
I didn't attempt to hide from my posts, in fact, quite the opposite, I said that the posts don't contradict anything, and that I have no need to hide from anything. You've failed, once again, to explain to me why I would. |
"Reasonable limits? Again, reasonable by whose definition. You are exhibiting the arrogance I alluded to in my earlier post. How dare anyone question the righteous Frank M who knows better than all of us whats best."
I don't know where you're getting that. His point still holds. Who defines drunk driving to be past a resonable limit? Obvously, different people will have different tollerances for what they consider destructive behavior, but since when is voicing your opinion arrogant? How is the righteous? We live in a democracy, and as such, everyone should voice their opinions, we shouldn't let the vocal minority lead us. |
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Please don't try to make this into a liberal/conservative issue. In fact, up here there is equal support for this bill from both sides, but I see that most of the opponents on this forum are from the more liberal south, as seem to be most of the members of this forum (not that there is anything wrong with that). Generally, when you look out on the lake and see a typical American family cruising along leisurely in their 21-footer and then see a young well-tanned city-slicker in a 40-foot Baja flying past at full throttle with the stereo blasting, you don't presuppose that, of the two, it was the family guy that voted for Kerry. The recent evolution of Winnipesaukee into a playground for the rich was not perpetrated by the conservatives. The average resident of this region, whether Republican or Democrat, and is being denied full use of this lake by many non-residents from a much more liberal state. So if you are going to make this a liberal/conservative issue, it seems to me that you are twisting the argument in the wrong direction. But as I said, it has nothing to do with the candidate you voted for. Nice try though. |
Not to be a nit picker....
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But anyway, this stuff is way to heady for me. I am heading to 51 Mill Street..to eat, drink & be merry, my true calling! Look for my review soon....and just to leave you all with a thought, while you battle it out here on your keyboards, I'll be enjoying my favorite cocktail at a nice new restaurant by the beautiful Winni thinking about anything but this debate! Salute! :cheers: |
Propeller hits it right on the head.Liberal scare tactics.46 Mph is too fast and unsafe on Winni? Give me a break.The propagander that is on that website is exactly that.They don't feel safe to go out on Winni anymore?I'm on the lake every weekend on a 10 foot PWC,going to all parts of the lake.The only place I'm a little uneasy is coming into the Weirs towards Paugus Bay.Now that's a little hairy granted but it's the volume of traffic in that one area.Put a speed limit there maybe but the whole lake?Come on.Some of the people who support this bill either don't boat at all of probably dont have a boat capable of going 45 mph or dont care to go more than 45 mph.It's "the whats good for me is what is what you should do also"mentality.My little 10 foot pwc goes 60 mph but I hardly think I would be cutting docks in half as one of our more vocal big boat bashers likes to say.Ok,Im off the soapbox.Let me have it. SS
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Frank, I am not trying to do anything other than stand up for my opinions as you are. I never stated this was a liberal/conservative issue. You have the wrong impression. I simply used what I believe(in my opinion) were scare tactics by what I believe(in my opinion) is a biased liberal media as a comparison to what I believe(in my opinion) are scare tactics being used by WinnFABS and any other supporters of lake restrictions.
Just to set the record straight, I live up here, am registered to vote up here and spend 99% of my time on Winni in the summer and skiing in the North Conway region in the winter. I am not a liberal southerner and many of my boating friends live and are registered to vote in NH. Although many who use the lake maybe rich, many of us are ordinary, middle class folk enjoying the lake. Nobody that I am aware of is denying anyone access to the lake. If you can't afford a lakefront property or slip you can still trailer an affordable boat to the many pay and free public launches. When you say denied access, if you are referring to people afraid to use the lake, that is not the same thing. They are not being denied access. Please do not twist being afraid into denied access. How am I or any of my boating friends or anyone else for that matter denying access? Again, another scare tactic that is unfounded. You are welcome to state your opinion or stand on any issue but please do not twist my opinions as I am entitled to them just as you are. |
Propeller hits it right on the HEAD...?
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"APS post" was a quoted letter to the editor -- authored by a NH Representative. http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...2&postcount=48 Shoot the messenger. :( Quote:
I will not have had boating safety instruction -- and I stand an excellent chance of becoming what the GFBLs call "a speed bump". Quote:
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A 45MPH speed limit will keep away the thrill-seekers banned from the other lakes because they can't risk a ticket against their insurance premiums. They'll end up in the open salt water for which they were designed, where they can see over their bows, and where they can actually achieve higher speeds due to salt water's density. __________________________ If you're afraid of the lake -- stay off the dock! |
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I have an undersized overpowered Formula and I can't tell you the number of times I've had that typical American family in their 21 footer(rental perhaps)come up from behind , and pass me like we were on a TWO LANE ROAD , just because I was going slow and their 125 hp outboard is going to beat the Formula. I almost wish you would get your speed limit , just so you could see that speed is not the problem. It's people who are clueless or drive like they have blinders on and they are in their own little world. |
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Here is an example of a boating activity that is to fast and to dangerous for Lake Winnipesaukee.
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I smiled when I saw the reference on the "winnfabs" website about effective enforcement on Lake George & Saratoga Lake in upstate NY. Most of Lake George is very narrow with quite a few islands that channel traffic into a small navigation area, pretty much like Alton Bay from Echo Point to Little Mark (for width---maybe a little wider. Saratoga Lake isn't much bigger than Wolfeboro Bay as seen from shore...haven't been on it.
Enforcement...use relatively inexpensive radar guns (is that website going to fund the cost???? ) or even better is the use of the trained eye of experienced patrol officers in estimating speed (who's funding the use of experienced officers to estimate the speed). From their own link to a a USCG report on accidents 2003 (pg37 or so I think): they show the causes of accidents: total accidents operation of vessel 3105 operator inattention 703 careless reckless oper 486 operator inexperience 477 excessive speed 446 no proper lookout 326 alcohol 289 rules of the road infraction 199 these seven causes contribute to 2926 of the accidents. The first 3 plus the last cause totals 1865 accidents or almost 64% of the accidents. speed is 15%. The speed cause is of concern to me because there is no quantitative data here. Was it 50 MPH, 60, 90, 100+???? or was it 15 MPH while docking at the Alton Docks??? Lake George and Saratoga Lake are not Winnipesaukee. Nor is our Marine Patrol funded for this type of enforcement. We have adequate regulation and simply need enforcement of the existing laws and education education education. Some of that education will come in the form of fines and operating privilege suspension, but let's not over legislate. I am more concerned with the 64% accidents than I am with the speed related, and with the 64% I didn't even include the improper lookout. Speed is not the major factor here. Hope the bill fails!!!! |
How odd, my gun never left the safe
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Well I had read the whole thread just after Don had closed it and I've just gone back and re-read it now. Actually except for some name calling it was tamer than some of the stuff above re: the SLs. I don't find any threats, veiled or unveiled, nor any intimidation. I only mention this because you seem to think there's some, I dunno, "slight" (inferred from the :( ), aimed at you in the above transactions. I don't see this either. |
Is the proof in the pudding?
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And yes, the on the weekends Winni gets quite crowded! But your quote intrigues me, as does many of your posts. Could you please supply some relevant data on how, in your own words, you could become a speed bump? If you have that information readily available and documentable, I would be surprised as to why you would not be willing to share that immediately with all of us, in the name of safety! Strong definitive statements deserve strong definitive proof....please enlighten us! Bon apetit! :liplick: |
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http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...8&postcount=91 Everybody should be offended at intimidation -- surprised it "wasn't found". |
He who views that as intimidation should really get a spine replacement. Gimme a break! :sleeping:
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A Fool's Errand
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"GFBL" stands for Go Fast Be Loud ('Tip-o-the-hat to BoaterEd) "Speed Bump" is what the oversized GFBL boaters call any smaller boat. "Lake Lice" -- is what the oversized GFBL boaters call...well, you'll just have to guess. :rolleye2: "Blow Boat" -- or Snail Boat -- a sail-powered vessel. "Poker Run" is a loosely organized race of scores of GFBLs, generating large numbers of complaints from "Speed Bumps" and a token contribution to a needy local governmental agency. All of my boats (Winnipesaukee-traditional: sail/paddle/power) are smaller than the GFBLs. Moreover, none have more than 25HP, and are NH exam-exempt. Quote:
All the time, moving...listening...observing :look: ...moving...looking...watching. :look: You see a lot of mischievous, reckless, negligent, drunken -- and sometimes lewd -- boating activities in six hours of active boating in a day. Quote:
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Illinois and Missouri are excellent. Florida, with ten-times the number of registered boats as New Hampshire, is just "fair". http://www.mswp.state.mo.us/news/NRD...ct=2&ID=040114 http://dnr.state.il.us/law3/report/04/June04.htm http://www.floridaconservation.org/l...ts/summary.htm There are many jurisdictions reporting in these states (municipal, wildlife, sheriff, state, conservation, water patrol), but all have decent reports available on-line. Ever try to find a New Hampshire boating accident report? All you'll find is "Boating Accident Attorneys". http://www.attorneylawyernetwork.com...hire/state.htm 2) In a state without a boating speed limit, a police report can't show "EXCESS SPEED" as a causative action. (Preferring "reckless operation" instead). In the last official NH site I could find to visit -- possibly hosting the data you request, the MPs stated that "One source has estimated New Hampshire leads the nation in accidents per acre of water per 1,000 boats registered." http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/lba/...ine_1997p.html (I'd gather the remaining dearth of data is due to NH insisting on tourist-friendly information at its official websites). 3) At this forum, there are the occasional requests for information about "a boat accident". Those end up becoming "orphan" threads. There's just no information available -- and probably won't ever be until the MPs get a decent police-report website put up. (And probably not then). 4) Had our lake's most famous GFBL boater not run from the scene, the "incident" would have been "below the fold" in the newspapers. Regarding such hit&runs, I've archived four such GFBL fatal incidents. Running from the scene has to do with insurance premiums, as most of those boats are listed as "RESTRICTED" or "CAUTION" in American Modern Insurance data: http://www.sullivan-sullivan.com/pdf...T_LIST2004.pdf So!...the short answer is, there's no way "...to share that immediately with all of us, in the name of safety!..." New Hampshire has left us with heuristics. You want stats? Go to the "Official Winnipesaukee Lake Depth Gauge" website. Or look at where the water's height is on your dock. |
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The speed limit will not keep away the "thrill - seekers. They will still come. I know of no "thril - seekers" that have been banned from other lakes excpept if they do not pass noise restrictions. This "see over their bow's" comment interests me. Why is it that you think that we have a hard time seeing over our bows? I never have a hard time seeing over my bow from a slow speed to wide open. Some boats, not only speed boats, have a blocked view while they plane off however once on plane they are fine. I would suggest that most "go fasts" actually have better view then the majority of boats out there. Have you ever driven one? If not then please do not comment on it. As for salt water being faster.... Well since salt water in denser there is more drag so most boats do not see a increase in speed. Some claim 2 mph at most..... The statistics just are not there to show that this will have any effect on the lake as far as safty. All my close calls on the lake have been at slow speeds with other boaters not paying attention. Jon AKA CITY SLICKER FROM MA :rolleye2: :rolleye2: |
I would like to see statistics because I've seen tidbits of information out there, guess I might have to look myself. I did find this, flies in the face of what the proponents of a speed limit say, from an insurance company also. Other people have posted in insurance info. so it MUST be true.....
Congestion levels: Are the waters quiet (like Lake Winnipesaukee) or are they crowded with traffic (like Long Island Sound)? Guess it depends on your frame of reference...... (Quotation taken from http://www.premierins.com/premierIns...ceBoatCost.asp) |
I do not apologize for the amount of space in this letter I intend to devote to telling you about Speed Limits. What follows is a call to action for those of us who care -- a large enough number to perform noble deeds. You are, I'm sure, well aware that Speed Limits's canards are attributable to an ignorance born of fear. But did you know that if we submit to Speed Limits's definition of "magnetohydrodynamics" and become sinister, we have lost the war for self-preservation? Speed Limits is locked into its present course of destruction. It does not have the interest or the will to change its fundamentally lackluster orations. And there you have it. Speed Limits expresses a disgusting nostalgia for a uniform, unchallenging, homogeneous society that never really existed.
And thats all I have to say about that! |
Speed limits on the water are for tree hugging conservatives (these people usually own sail boats, right Acres Per Second??). I was considering a vacation to Lake Winnie this year... I have now changed my mind and will be going to Lake Champlain or Lake George instead. I would have brought a family of 4 (two growing and very hungry kids), one 24' GFBL that gets one mile to the gallon at 70 mph, one gas hog V-8 truck (how much gas do you think I might have bought at a local station?), and an appetite for all things touristy. But it seems that me and my family would not be welcome on Winnie due to the seemingly overstressed and underinformed general public (A.P.S. again??) I will not bring my hundreds, perhaps $1000's of tourist dollars to your area knowing that I am not welcome.
Oh, and Acres Per Second, if Betty Cook knew someone like you was using her race boat as an avatar, I'm sure she'd be dissapointed. You should be ashamed of yourself... hippocrite. I've been boating for 35 years, both sail and power. I choose to own a powerboat simply because it's more fun for me and my family. I am Coast Gaurd Certified in safety and navigation. I know the "rules of the road" for recreational and commercial boating. I'll bet most boaters on your lake don't. Yet you single out the boater with the fast, loud boat as the offenders in every case. I have to call BS on that. I know PLENTY of sailboaters like yourself who don't have the first clue about navigation. My 14 year old is probably a better boater than most simply because I've taught him to be. Also, you seem to be very good at pulling skewed statistics from the internet... congratulations!! You are the type of boater that gives the rest of us a bad reputation. Single minded. Closed minded. As one of my fast boating friends put it, a woosie. I came to this site looking for information on Lake Winnipesaukee, where to stay, where to eat, where to have some fun. But all I find is threads like this one and another on banning rafting? Come on, get a life people!! Share the lake, contrary to what seems to be popular belief in your community, you do NOT own the lake and a public access is just that, public. If I want to put my fast, loud boat in Winnie, I can. But, I won't. If you want to look me up, come to Lake Champlain in June.... that's where I'll be buying my gas, food, and hotel accomodations. Maybe the occasional stuffed animal moose for the kids too.... afterall, aren't our kids what it's all about??? Wizard of Oz |
Why just Winni?
I'm just wondering why Lake Winnipesaukee is being singled out for a bill to impose a limit on speed. Why not a state speed limit for all lakes? After all, aren't high speeds likely to be even more dangerous on smaller lakes?
I haven't kayaked on Winni yet, but I have been on other NH lakes enough to comment on high speeds. Yes, I have felt very unsafe at times, wondering if that speeding boat even sees me. In a sit in kayak, you actually sit below the water line and your top speed is maybe 5 MPH. While kayaking on Squam last summer, my friend and I were both swamped by a speeding boat that passed within 40 feet of us and never even slowed down. So enforcement of current boating regulations seems to be the bigger issue here. |
Speed Limit
If you didn't already know, Squam already has a speed limit. I think its 40mph. That speeding boat you mentioned may not have exceeded that limit as I am sure a boat going 35 mph may seem fast to someone sitting in a kayak.
Its become an issue on Winni because the proponents & supporters of the speed limit say that the high performance boats are taking over the lake, scare people & are too fast for the lake. These high performance boats probably do not use the other lakes like they do Winni so that could be why Winni is singled out. As a powerboater I agree that kayaks are difficult to see sometimes, especially when there is a good size chop & some are blue & blend in with the color of the water. It would be very helpful if kayaks had a flag like kids bikes started using a few years back. |
[QUOTE=Acres per Second]It's a little unclear what is being asked here. How about these definitions?
"GFBL" stands for Go Fast Be Loud ('Tip-o-the-hat to BoaterEd) "Speed Bump" is what the oversized GFBL boaters call any smaller boat. "Lake Lice" -- is what the oversized GFBL boaters call...well, you'll just have to guess. :rolleye2: "Poker Run" is a loosely organized race of scores of GFBLs, generating large numbers of complaints from "Speed Bumps" and a token contribution to a needy local governmental agency. All of my boats (Winnipesaukee-traditional: sail/paddle/power) are smaller than the GFBLs. Moreover, none have more than 25HP, and are NH exam-exempt. Thank you for defining those terms for me. As a member of "the other site", with over 5,000 posts, I had never heard of the first three terms you refer to. As someone who has organized five Poker Runs, and participated in many many more, I can assure you your definition of Poker Run is out the window. Are there fast boats involved? Sure. There are also slow boats involved. There are cabin cruisers involved. The ones I've personally produced had different categories for different styles of boats, thus making it attractive to all types of boaters. As far as the purpose of a Poker Run: First, it's about boaters having fun. Then there is the boost to the local economy. And most important, the vast majority of them benefit charities. There is the "SCOPE" Poker Run in southern California that generates up to half a million dollars for the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation, in one run. No matter how hard you try to "paint" us GFLB owners as evil, we simply do too much "good" for you to ever paint over. If your boat only has 25 horsepower, good for you. It doesn't concern me what you own, how fast you go, or what you do AS LONG as you do it responsibly. And thusly, a responsible GFBL boat owner (which the VAST VAST majority are) should be no concern of yours. It has been nine years since I last boated on "the Lake". So I may be out of touch with the conditions up there now. I can tell you this, down here that has so many more boats than your area has, the "Offshore Crowd" is without question the most courteous group on the water, bar none. Want to take a guess who the most discourteous group is????? Without a doubt, the sailboat crowd. Now there are exceptions to every rule. I even get the occasional wave (I always wave first) from a sailboat, but more often than that I get "flipped off". I just laugh at them, blow them a kiss, and I'm on my way. One thing you also might want to consider. There is a lot of money in the GFLB groups. And that group is very passionate about their interest. And what you and your kind are doing is so simple to understand, a tree stump can see it. You want to get the GFBL's off of "your" lake. Well here's a reality check. It's not your lake. It's everyone's lake. And the lake is certainly big enough to accomodate everyone. If you put one tenth of your energy and focus into boater education, rather than trying to rid the lake of us evildooers, you might actually accomplish something positive. Oh, one more thing. I apologized to Bear Lover for what was considered a bad joke, which by the way was not posted by me in THIS forum. Nothing more. I have never posted a single statement that by any definition could ever be considered as intimidating or threatening. It's just that you feel threatened when someone calls it straight. That's your problem, not mine. |
People with dark (water) colored kayaks wearing dark (water) colored clothing are just asking for trouble. Would you go biking in the dark wearing all black or dark blue? Not me. Seems to me that kayakers (I like kayaking... though I prefer rivers) should take some self-preservation responsibility and use a bright colored flag, patch, shirt, etc... to help ANY boater (even those people with a 25 mph Boston Whaler 13' skiff or 12 mph Hobie Cat) see them better. Seems like common sense.
Wow, I think I just hit the nail on the head. Common Sense. Everyone has it, but some just can't seem to use it. |
Quote:
Jon |
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