Snowbirding vs. Year-Round Retirement
 

As I mentioned on another thread, my wife and I have been talking about what our future might look like in retirement. When we bought our place in Arcadia, we always thought we'd either sell it and our main home to buy waterfront on Winni or sell the main home and buy a winter place in the south.

The former would appear to no longer be possible. Starting mainland waterfront is at least double what our main home and Arcadia camp would bring in.

The latter, however, seems to have a fair amount of considerations as well—both financially and in terms of weather, maintenance, etc.

Keeping the parameter of limited finances, what are people's thoughts on 1. Options, 2. Locations to winter (assuming, of course, that Winni is our home), or 3. Locations to move full-time that offer good weather/boating/lake or water activity year-round?

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i have long considered this as well, as I have long way to go. I have thought of keeping my lake place for 6 months and renting out something for 6 months, either the same place or in different places around the country or even just in the same southern state. Who wants the upkeep and all the extras of owning the place (clothes, maintenance, utility bills, insurance, and everything else) when you can rent it furnished for 6 months and move if you want to the next 6 months
to me that can keep it exciting, renting for the 6 months depending on where could even be cheaper than the 6 months of owning

Snowbirding vs. Year-Round Retirement
 

What about RV life, even if you still keep your Winni residence.?

Interesting idea, though I'm not sure how much driving I'd like to do on the back end. For the early part of retirement, the idea of different places is an interesting one.

I gotta say that I'm also romantically moved by the Great Loop talk that's been here and seeing sandbars in the south/Caribbean in winter.

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It depends on how warm you want it to be of course, but for me the Carolinas would be too cold in the winter. I think a lot of golfers do go there because they like it cool. If you were going to move there year round you might not mind as much as the summers are so hot and humid and they seem to like the cool winters. I know lots of native Floridians and I don't find them to be different at all. If anything I think it might be some of the snobs from the NE that are different, not the natives.

Perhaps consider a place not on Winni? There are many lakes in the area with lower prices and taxes. A place that is winterized would afford the opportunity to rent it out in the months when you go south and would pay for the costs of maintaining the place year round.

What about lakes down South, say Carolina lakes? Anyone have any experience with them, lived there or visited?

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Rv?
 

Thinkxingu, you ask questions that have no easy answers and the answers may be different 10, 15, and 20 years from now. If you don't know where "down south" you want to go, that's an added issue. For true year round boating and water activities, you have to go way south. Mid-Atlantic isn't going to cut it. Maybe an RV so you can sample some places? We have friends who just bought one, and they love it, even for nearby weekend trips. Big deal is, the dog can come along so no need to make kennel arrangements way ahead.
Without knowing, I'd expect the 100% fixture would be to keep the camp. It will be sooner than you think when L'il Buddy will be starting to take over some of the routine duties.
The other approach, if you have ideas where you want to be, down south, is to buy something now that is largely rented/self supporting so you're building equity in the market you want to be in. Think of real estate investment as part of a diversified portfolio. Manage it as a business, not as a vacation home that you rent once in a while.

Lake Norman
 

My friends sold their neighborhood house (no lake) in so. NH and bought shorefront on Lake Norman, near Charlotte, NC. The shorefront house was twice the price of their old home, about the same as a place on Wiinipesaukee, over $1MM. This was November 2020. The NC house was on the market for only a couple of days and they bought without seeing it in person. Sold the NH house in a few days too, with an 8% overbid.

Distance
 

I think a large piece of the 'snowbird' option is how far away from the lake you will be living the rest of the year especially if you are an islander. The further the distance, the more the logistics of making it work become exponentially difficult. If you have to fly to NH (Logan or whatever), how do you get to the lake? Where do you keep your vehicle? What if you arrive at the marina and your boat isn't working right? What if your dock got destroyed by the ice?

If you live within driving distance (say < 8 hours) you can always return home should something catastrophic occur that prevents you from being at your lake house. If not - what do you do? Where do you stay while things are fixed?

These were the concerns we grappled with. Our though was to spend the winter in Spain and the summer on Rattlesnake. Sure - if you've got tons of cash you can always pay for someone to set everything up and let you know when it's ready. That ain't us. We ended up selling or cabin on Rattlesnake (more's the pity). Just keep Distance in mind when doing your Snowbird Calculus.

This might not matter to you, but as a point of interest, I think most, if not all, the lakes in the Carolinas are man made. Lake Norman is the largest one.

So what do they think about the lake and the weather there?Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Cardboard b oxes
 

Very happy. After a couple of moths, still unpacking. He stilt has to go to work, international travel, so it is a slow process.

Sirens and "Jake-Brakes" for the Hearing-Impaired...
 

Before I bought my Florida lakefront place, I checked for traffic noise. Only a northeast wind would allow traffic noise to carry. So, shortly after I'd my ideal place in 1977, I was awakened at daybreak by a loud whistle; fortunately, the train only runs on Sundays! :o

Daybreak also brings out the duck hunters, but their hunting season dates don't overlap my stayovers. :)

Did they know Interstate I-77 runs through the middle of Lake Norman. Y'know, the "truck route"? :eek2:

I would also consider state income taxes on pensions, 401ks etc. If you are a NH resident you do not have to pay income tax ( currently ) but if your main residency is a state that has it you would have to pay that.

I googled that lake, not the cleanest. But I'm thinking most of those lakes down south aren't going to be as clean as NH lakes or as pretty.

Southern Lakes
 

There are a couple of threads from a few years ago discussing Winni vs lakes in the south:

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ht=Lake+Norman

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ht=Lake+Norman

I have a neighbor across the street from me, log cabin on the lake, that moved to Tenn. He now comes back for the month of July every year.
I asked him this past summer why he just doesn't sell and buy a lake front home there. He said, "the water is brown and full of snakes". :laugh::laugh::laugh:

My wife and I just retired this past year and are going though the same thought process. But we have different visions of retired life. :D
My thinking is move to our NH home and just rent down south every year for 3 or 4 months.
My wife wants to sell out Waltham home, which I want to do also, and buy a home at the Cape.
So my question is to her, why would I want to own 2 summer destinations? :confused:

One of your biggest issues post retirement is Estate Taxes for your beneficiaries. Without going into the whole topic, MA has a terrible and regressive Estate Tax situation that taxes everything world wide unless you pay taxes elsewhere. What that means if you die a MA resident and have property in NH, the State of MA will tax that NH property. NH and FL are two states that have NO Estate Taxes. So buying anything in MA makes no sense to me. Make NH your permanent home, rent in the south, and be HAPPY to throw your winter clothes away !!! You have to think hard about the estate tax situation. It is a big deal and cost. Also, sell your MA property BEFORE becoming a NH resident and you can claim the one time Federal capital gains tax exclusion of $500,000 if married and filing jointly. If you become a NH resident first, your MA property becomes your second home and capital gains is fully taxable. I am no tax professional, so get real guidance, but this is what I have learned over the years.

Helpful tax info...
 

Tummy, you may not be a tax professional, but you provided useful information on estate taxes MA vs other states. Thanks. We bought the condo in Florida so our daughter would have a decent place to live, and now she isn’t living there. We had never considered owning 2 places, so my advice would be to be very deliberate in your planning before purchasing a second property. You might want to vary destinations from year to year. It’s just a thought...

It's difficult to avoid the extremes...Cold in the winter. Hot in the summer.

I think the best year-round weather in the USA is the southern coast of California between San Diego and Los Angeles. And, therefore it is crowded and expensive. I don't think it's possible to have-it-all at a reasonable cost.

I have a long commute from San Francisco to Meredith. I'd love to have an aquarium...I can't. I'd love to have a dog...Difficult. Even live plants become a problem.

To further complicate any decisions on my part, there is no other lake, like Lake Winni, in my opinion. In California everyone marvels about Lake Tahoe...A lake I find boring. Nice colors, brilliant blues, etc. Only one island and hardly anywhere to go by boat except around in circles. And it is extremely crowded and expensive.

Winni-snob
 

Absolutely agree. I've always referred to myself as a 'lake snob' because it's either Winni or it's just some pond somewhere. It is the gold-standard. We sold and will not buy a place on another lake anywhere. We'd always be comparing it (poorly) to beautiful Lake Winnipesaukee. Spoiled ourselves, we did.

I don't believe that fed estate capital gains is a one time exclusion. I've already taken it once and I believe I can take it again after living in my new residence for at least 2 years.

If Winni waterfront doesn't work with the budget, don't discount non-waterfront homes, especially if you can get convenient access via an owned ( or long-term rental slip ). You could get a decent home off lake + purchase a slip for less than half what a waterfront would cost you. Property taxes will be considerably less going that route as well.

Gary, I have a friend who lives in San Diego and it is cool- very often 60s- in the winter. It depends on what you like of course.

Something else to think about if it 's relevant to you is that besides the other tax advantages of NH and Fl, Fl does not have interest and dividends tax but NH does.

I’d take 60s all winter long.

And that's what some people like. To me that's too cold and if I am going to be in the house most of the time with the heat on, I might as well have snow and ice outside and one place to live.

In Florida my brother said it got into the 30's a few nights ago. He had a citrus that died from frost.

I could deal with 50's and 60's. I like to walk, hike, and bike so that's perfect weather for those activities.Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

We purchased on a canal with Gulf access down here in FL 3 years ago for very reasonable price. They are going up, probably due to Covid related moves, but still very reasonable, as compared to the lake anyway. It' not Winni, for sure, but we do 6/6 and are able to enjoy nice weather and boating all year. Don't miss those winters.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jpcole...posted-public/

Interest and Dividends tax
 

House Bill 568 has been filed by Rep. Norm Silber (r-Gilford) to phase out and repeal the I & D tax. Call your reps and senators.

What are the chances?

The lakes in the low country Carolinas are nice but are generally shallow, and due to the soil makeup in the area, get muddy- red/ orange muddy easily. Lake Norman and Wylie were both created by Duke Power (now Duke Energy) to cool their nuclear plants. Norman has some naturally deep areas, but it is amazing to ride around just off shore- the depth finder is spot on at 10', no rocks!

Lake Keowee in the mountains is also Duke made but is much more similar to what we are used to. Rocky, with inconsistent depth and obstacles. It is beautiful.

January was a little colder in Florida than it usually is. However the next 7 days look pretty good! When they say showers it usually rains for about 1/2 hour and then the sun comes out.

I am fortunate to be able to spend 6 months at the lake and 6 months in Florida. I love Winnipesaukee, and have been on the lake some part or all of every summer for over 50 years, but when it turns cloudy and gray I head south.

There are additional real estate tax benefits, not available to non residents, when you claim the Florida house as your primary residence and you can still avoid the income taxes.

IF I read this right, if successful this wipes out and estimated 113 million per year flowing into the state's general fund by the time it takes full effect. Now what is the likelihood that the state whacks that much in annual spending out of the budget? Exactly.... not much of a chance that will happen so where do they think they are going to make it up? I'd like to hear some ideas on that.

With only republicans signing on to this which is no surprise the democrats will do their best to thwart it's passing because any tax cut is a bad idea. In particular this one because those that would benefit actually have some savings paying out D&I to qualify and therefore must be, ya know "rich". Remember your elected officials knows better what to do with your money than you do anyway.

With things the way they are right now I don't see a serious conversation going on to consider the possibility of how it could happen. Just the old mantra of tax cuts for the "rich" and kids will starve, the elderly will suffer (ironically even though the elderly\retired are the ones most likely to BENEFIT from this), and of course the world as we know it will come to an end. Heck maybe even add to global warming more than John Kerry's private jetting all over the world.

Snowbirding?
 

Repeal of the I & D Tax isn't directly related to Snowbirding and it was not my intent to steal Think's thread. Happy to discuss if someone wants to start a fresh thread.

The usual suspects are derailing this thread to push their political agenda. :( It was informative while it stayed on track.

Back on track....
 

So.......Biggd, feel free to put it back on track.....be a hero. 😎

Anyone here have a "tropical" place for winters?

The issue with having Arcadia as our summer place is that we'd need a reliable winter place as there's no flexibility with the open/close dates of the season. Renting, therefore, may be a challenge, though maybe a similar type association might work.

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