No Dogs at Boat Launch
 

:( We went to the boat launch with the dogs today in Alton and they changed the signage to read NO DOGS. Why? Where are we supposed to go with them? No where in town apparently. What was the reason behind this? Does anyone know and what can we do to get this changed? My taxes are going to help pay for this stuff and the only thing we use recreationally is the boat ramp for the dogs.

Just a guess here..but believe it or not there are some people who don't clean up after their dogs do their "doo-dy". I am thinking it is for the pleasantry of walking through the beautiful park-like surroundings without finding an unpleasant surprise on your shoes.
Just a hunch, though. Perhaps the people at the town hall can verify the reason.

Not meaning to sound disrespectful but why is it the town's responsibility to provide a recreational site for your pets? Where are you supposed to go with them? How about home in your yard. If they want water to play in, get a kiddie pool or set up a sprinkler.

There are several dog parks around the state where your dogs can run and enjoy a vast, secure playground dedicated to them. They can be found with a Google Search.

As an afterthought, the recreational purpose of the boat ramps is for the launching and retrieving of boats, not dogs.

I am a dog lover and owner and I keep my pet leashed or crated when I can't supervise him in the house. He is not allowed to run loose at any time. He gets healthy walks and eats excellent food. He has been to obedience school and has good social skills. I love him to death and tend to spoil him. My town has a beautiful park that has facilities for soccer, softball, basketball and a kiddie playground. It also has signs that say NO DOGS. I respect that and realize that the park was built for people and not pets.

Crating
 

Nightwing,

Way off the subject but, I disagree that crating a dog is anyway to show you are a great dog lover or trainer. I do agree you have the right to do so, but I do not think it is in any way a good argument for being a good dog owner.

The boat launch has been a place people who live here can take their dogs to swim for more years than I can remember. This change was not posted anywhere for imput and discussion. As to dog parks I would never take my dogs to such a filthy place where clueless people let their dogs run amok and fights break out at the drop of a hat. Terriers do not belong in dog parks. No thanks.

Do you live in Alton? If not I don't think you have any room to talk. As for the leashing and crating comments, what ever gave you the impression my dogs are ever off lead in public? Here's a news flash THEY AREN'T. As for the boat ramps they aren't busy at the time we go with the dogs which is the point. An as a matter of fact today there wasn't anyone even attempting to use the ramp which is the case most days we go.

A kiddie pool and sprinkler do not allow for water retrival training do they?

Whoa, people!
 

Just have to jump in here as I am wont to do.

First, as for crates. My dog loves hers. When the door is open, she stays there - sometimes for hours. I was opposed to crates and didn't use one for my first dog, but we did for our current pooch. She feels secure and safe in it. When we leave and don't put her in her crate, she often climbs in anyway. If the door is closed and she can get in, she crawls under the kitchen table as it simulates the crate. So, please, do not use the use of a crate as a reason to attack someone about their dogs.

Secondly, as for the boat launch, there must be some valid reason. However, I do agree with the second person who posted that it is a boat launch, not a dog area. Having said that, I can't complain as we have our own beach. My dog, ironically, hates it! Our first one loved the water, but not this one.

So, please, why don't you just give the town hall a call and find out. I would bet my last buck that someone complained and up went the sign. That is how these things work everywhere!

Just my two (or maybe three) cents,

Jersey Girl

P.S. After that Nor'easter, my dog could have gone swimming in my backyard! Ick.

I haven't been in Alton all that long, but I do remember when you could take the dogs to the boat ramp. I think it changed some time last summer. Bummer too, it was a great activity for the dogs and their owners, it gave them access to the lake but away from public swim areas. Not sure why it's changed, perhaps pmj is right and it was because of irresponsible pet owners not doing their "doo-ty." We just keep our wiener dog home now and he plays in the kiddie pool, but he's little (only 10 lbs) so he can get his splash on in pretty well at home, for bigger dogs it's not quite as fun.

Not sure why all the hub-bub over different training techniques. Guess I'm a bad dog owner too, since my Stewie has a crate. :rolleye2: He loves it in there, it's his little "safe zone" he's got his fluffy little bed in there and it's a nice snug den-like environment.

I was not in favor of crating my puppy either, but it was explained to me that it is a natural tendency for canines to seek some sort of den.

My particular dog, an Italian greyhound can never be left unattended and loose, no matter what the situation. He is a gaze hound and will chase after anything that moves if it suits his fancy. His ability to dart into traffic while chasing a leaf or a butterfly is just too great a risk to take.

As a condition of purchase, I had to sign an agreement to keep the dog under my control at all times and never to let him run free. Of course, a fenced yard might be an exception but it would have to be a tall fence because this breed is like an antelope and can jump extremely high.

My dog loves his crate because he can feel comfort and safety. When he is tired, he will go to the crate.

Bananas
 

I got a pet peeve! GET RID OF THE DANCING BANANAS! It's driving me crazy!!! Dog on ramps, in crates, playing crazy eights are fine. Just get rid of these dancing bananas and I'll be glad to donate.:laugh:

Agreed
 

Nightwing,

As you say, in your case a crate it is required to keep you dog safe. As I stated:

"I do agree you have the right to do so, but I do not think it is in any way a good argument for being a good dog owner."

I agree many people crate, but because it is a sensitive subject, I did not think it was a good argument given the context in which it was given. Meaning crating is not a prerequisite of good ownership. I completely agree with you on leashes!


Here is a thought for all the dog owners out there:

I pick up ALL dog potty I come across. I figure there are probably only about 10% of the dog owners out there that are not responsible. If the rest of us responsible owners chip in, we (us and our dogs) won't be kicked out of every place we enjoy going. This is extra work, but you will never get irrespnsible people to be responsible so we all need to help bag that potty! :p

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here - the Alton boat ramp is adjacent to a public swimming area. There are usually a lot of people there, and as has already been mentioned, I'm afraid it is the few irresponsible dog owners who have ruined it for the rest.

Judging by what I see at the Gilford boat launch, it comes down to the few can ruin it for the many. I can't count the number of times I have tried to launch or retrieve and someone and their dog are occupying the ramp as a doggie playground playing fetch in the water and I have actually had to get out and ask them to get their dog out of the water so I can use the ramp. Its these inconsiderate rubes that ruin it for the responsible owner that merely wants a quick splash for the dog and a little walk. If you let the good people do it you have to let the rubes also. And, unfortunately, the only way to stop the rubes is to stop everyone. Life is not fair, but we must all deal with it.

In no way did I mean that it was an indicator of good ownership. I was just stating a fact. Dogs do not need a romp in a lake to have a good life.

I think the real issue here is dog poop in the lake. Most beaches do not allow dogs. When a dog poops near a lake where do you think it ends up? What happens the next time it rains?

The bacteria content of the lake is a serious issue. Many older lake homes are spending up to $50K to upgrade septic systems. The lake is my drinking water supply.

If the State Legislature wants to protect the lakes they should worry less about pine needles and make a law that requires scooping within x number of feet of the lake.

At the risk of running this thread off topic, I have to strongly disagree with this statement. We have 3 dalmations, who we crate when we are not home. It keeps the dogs safe, they can't eat something that could hurt them, and they can't eat the furniture while we are gone. I could train them until I am blue in the face, but if they see something they want to eat, they will.

I crate my dogs. While that alone does not make me a good dog owner, it certainly is part of it.

I think someone needs an attitude adjustment.Boat ramps are for BOATS.Not for DOGS.As Aqua stated,I've had issues with some dogs in the way at the Gilford ramp.It's not the dogs fault but the careless owner.I've also stepped in dog crap twice there. Why is that hard to understand?Actually,on the other side of the fence,I see the same guy at the ramp with his old dog quite often and he is very aware of ramp users and immediately has his dog move out of the way.Not a really big deal.I have more of a problem with kids playing on the ramp in the water with mom saying nothing with she sits right next to the "no swimming at ramp" sign.Oh well!

Yeah well we are the ones that immediately get out of the way the second a boat approached the town dock or a trailer even enters the lot by Shibley's. We also do more than our fair share of picking up peoples' dog crap they leave behind. My dogs have been jumped by loose dogs at the ramp while they have been ON lead.

If the ramp is not in use for boats it is just sitting there vacant. What is needed are ENFORCED rules of conduct. Heck I'd even pay for a pass every summer to be able to bring my old dysplastic dog to swim. She does better with daily swims. Again this is Alton not Gilford.

Earlier, Alton should have put up signs like Vancouver, BC, has:

No that isn't a solution. Have you seen the size of the alligator snapping turtles in that pond and the stream down off it? Turtles that size can handily remove a dog's leg and they have been known to do so. So that's a solution, how?

As a dog owner I agree, if dogs are not allowed they are not allowed.

People claim their dogs are well behaved, and they are not. My dog doesn't bark, meanwhile the dog is barking, I clean up after my pet, you pick up everything? hmm. It is like dog owners (myself included) are sometimes so oblivious to their pets behavior. And of course my dog is not included in this grouping he is a perfect angel ;-)

Alligator snapping turtles are not alligators. They stay away from places where there is a lot of activity as they lie in wait for prey then strike. They have a tongue that acts as a lure. The ponds by the fire station have a hefty population of them we have seen them and photographed them. Even saw a large one killing a smaller one. So the fact they haven't bothered you at Hills Pond doesn't surprise me as they would hang out by less active spots. That's my point. There is all liklihood of a dog or a person even getting bitten by one over at the fire station.

Who says I let the dogs go swimming anyway? Implying that we didn't take the dogs home and forget their swim and that we didn't obey the signage is wrong. And why has it gone far enough? I'm not the only other responsible person in Alton who has lost a spot to take the dogs because of irresponsible people.

Here's an idea, why don't we just take them to your house? You're actually closer to us anyway..............

Here's another idea...........why not entertain them at your home?:rolleye2:

It's a public boat launch. If permits are needed fine I have NO problem doing that at all. As to why the kiddie pool etc. won't work at home I do believe that's been covered a few posts up............

Yes, not a public dog launch.:rolleye2:

Why not pick up the phone and call the town offices and ask of/complain to them?

:confused: So let me get this right, a dog doing his business at the boat ramp near the public beach is worse then your boat leaking god-knows-what at the same spot? Of course I'm sure each of you responsible boat owners make sure you don't have any leaks, but it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone. Maybe we should ban the boat launch all together?

I see no reason why dogs can't use the boat ramp along with the boats. If we're going to outlaw all of the little things that inconvenience us because a few inconsiderate individuals ruin it then there goes driving, boating, vacations, eating out, watching tv, vacations at the lake, tourism....

Holy Cow!! As I read all of this, I can only think .......
The dogs are much smarter than us humans because they can't talk, and unlike us, are easily trained.:rolleye1:

maybe....
 

Maybe we should be put in crates

Karen:
I am curious as well. I would direct my question to the Alton Parks and Recreation Dept by e-mailing them at parksrec@alton.nh.gov

If you hear from them, be sure to let us know what they had to say. Will dogs also be banned from the newly refurbished town beach?

When my "Hooch" and "Lady" were still alive, they would love to take a ride in the Jeep and take a dip at the boat ramp at either Manning Lake or Crystal Lake...right in your neck of the woods. Also the beach at the Boy Scout Camp at Lake Eileen is usually vacant most of the year and is a publicly accessible property. Usually, no one is around and you can let the doggies off the leash to romp around!

McD

They are banned from the other town beach already I went and looked. They can't go anywhere over at the new one not even under the pavillion thing. I was going to call the Boy Scout caretaker and ask about using their property, they already said we can use the trails with the horses.

I don't know where on Crystal Lake the boat ramp is, I'd rather go to an unoccupied spot (without the snappers!) and my kids tend to go to Crystal Lake more than the big one, there is sand and not that many people. I generally don't let them off lead away from home, I'm too worried they'd take off and get lost. They probably wouldn't, but it's one of my phobias ;)

The thing is, both these are in Gilmanton and it's a sad day when Alton has nowhere for pet owners in town to work/play with their dogs in town. I had specifically asked about this too that's what really is upsetting. I asked if they'd close all beaches to dogs after the other park was finished. I guess it was OK as long as the other side was a dump :( We're heading down there tomorrow to inquire the feasability of some sort of permit system or something being set up.

Again, crating is NOT part of good dog ownership! It may be needed for certain dogs but not for most. Especially those who take well to training.

Alton received money from the state that had certain strings or standards or whatever you wish to call them, attached to them. One of them was the "no dogs" issue. I believe it was mainly for health reasons. This issue was addressed at the deliberative session, earlier this year. One town member was concerned that it provided an "unwelcomed" feel to the area, however there were some town members who worked very hard on this project to make sure it was completed.

It's still a huge improvement on the way that beach was before all the hard work was done... I know Pete Bolster was a main player in that. He's now a selectman and could probably address your concerns much better than I can here. (I was just at all the meetings...)

Nonetheless, I would think the sign would more pertain to people hanging out there with Fido more than it would to those who were simply "passing thru" to launch a boat that Fido was going to also ride in.... Wouldn't you think? :-)

I cannot disagree strongly enough. I will leave it at that.

Missed point???
 

I think the point that Knot Droolin' is trying to make is that Chipj29's post seems to imply (though this is may not be their intent) that if one doesn't crate, they're not a good owner. The link you posted, Nightwing, is an excellent reference for when and when not to crate.

In your #5 post you were rather abrasive responding to nightwing that your dogs were not ever off their leases in public and here you say they generally are not.You also say here you would rather go to an unoccupied spot.I can't imagine a more occupied spot than a boat launch at Winnipesaukee.I'm not judging you but these inconsistencies don't help your argument.

I don't. The only one off lead on a stay that is for pictures ONLY is the old hag Cuddles. 99.5% of the time she is on lead as well. So no my dogs are not off lead in public.

IF there was another spot to take them on the lake I would take them there, however there isn't. The boal ramp was it for public access so unless you have another spot in mind on the lake that would allow dogs for all of 20 minutes max at a time, there is no other choice.

As to the unoccupied, sure that would be ideal, wouldn't it? Not having to worry about loose dogs jumping on my intact male and humping him while the owner yells at us for having a female in heat in public........ That was classic and sadly all too common.

So if the choice is boat ramp or no swimming? Boat ramp it is. Ideal? No but when it's the only game in town you deal with it.

This could turn into another speed limit type debate:( . I have cats , who stay in the house , use a litter box and believe water is only for drinking. I'm exempt from this one , so far.
Funny how every new "Law" removes somebodies "Rights":rolleye1:

Yes! Dog poop at the boat ramp is far worse than what comes out of your boat bilge. Each poop contains billions of coliform bacteria that can make humans sick or even kill them. We spend billions of dollars on septic systems for human waste, yet permit dogs, who also have coliform bacteria in their feces, to poop within feet of a drinking water supply.

There is a huge business around the lake in upgrading septic systems. This is a particular problem on the islands due to higher costs and fewer options. This is important work because many unexplained infections and illnesses come from swimming in or drinking contaminated water. Small children the elderly and those with suppressed immune systems can die from this pollution.

The bacteria level of our lake is often very high, especially in the summer. Beaches have been closed many times because of high bacteria counts. When do you hear about beaches closed due to boat bilge?

Here is some reading on the subject

http://www.usatoday.com/news/science...7-dog-usat.htm

http://www.lmvp.org/Waterline/spring2003/scoop.htm