Hi all forum learkers:D ,

Heading over to Wolfeboro on Saturday with some guests for their first time, wanted to know if anyone ever cleared the air on the restrictions on the docks I have not been over there this year yet myself.
Thank you

There was a picture in the Grunter with a guy standing in front of two restricted (handicapped) docking spots. The sad thing about this is that there will be one boat there a week, if that. Otherwise they will sit empty. Given the heavy requirements on that docking facilty, it is too bad this got through. Couldn't we have lived with one spot? If one is handicapped and spent the entire day on the lake, would it hurt for them to spend another 10 minutes waiting for a spot? And aren't all the spots relatively equal in that the handicapped person will have to get into a wheel chair when exiting a boat anyway so does it really matter where the spots are located on the dock? After given this some thought, I have come out against this change. I understand the concept and intent and I'm all for helping out handicapped people; if I saw someone having trouble I'd be the first one to help or offer my spot. I just don't think Wolfeboro should have tied up this many resources for the very occasional need.

I gotta agree with secondcurve. The idea may have been good but the exectution is awful. Handicapped spots should be closest to the parking lot. It looks like the town reserved spots that are convenient to boating but terribly inconvenient to anyone that struggle with walking. I suspect that if walking was difficult, one would not mind a tight squeeze going into an "inside" spot to get that much closer to land.

What are the requirements to use the handicapped spots? Do you need a placard, a dock-specific permit, or just some visible impairment to be eligible?

Wolfeboro Docks question
 

The gentleman standing by the sign in the paper in this week's issue of the Granite State News has been on a campaign to get handicapped spaces all over Town. Fine, maybe, if there was a need, but when you sit and watch the general population you just do not see all that many (if any) truly handicapped people. And with respect to boating, this is an excess interpretation of the law. This particular gentleman is correct in his knowledge of the ADA, and he is connected to the upper level ADA people, but his efforts at implementation are excessive.

The spaces do seem to be picked for ease of docking. That was one of my favorite spots.

The number of spots is always a question, many stores seem to have way more spots than they need. But it's probably better than not enough.

Don't you wish we lived in a society that didn't need these spots? People with extra needs would just be waved to the front of the line.

I went by the Wolfeboro town docks today and of course the two handicapped spots were open and space was very tight with boats waiting to dock. Why couldn't the state have issued special flags to handicapped boaters (I'm assuming there are more than one on the lake, but I'm not all that sure) that could be used to move them to the front of the line for docking? Too simple a solution, I guess!

I thought the last time this subject came up it was not enforced by police or MP thus no ticket such as with legit HC parking spots. This man who "oversees" this is purely just an overzealous advocate for ADA and has no business harassing people. Is this still true?

On this subject of handicap parking: I have no problem with specific parking spots on city streets being designated as handicap parking spots. What kills me is in Manchester for example, all the parking spaces downtown have parking meters, except for the handicap parking spaces. Why should the people using these spaces get free parking? Never understood this.

spots
 

I agree seaplane, just because handicapped does not mean they should not pay, they already have preferred parking, My father was impaired for very long time and had a placard for the car window. He never drove because he could not but was allowed a placard, which is in a lot of cases. It was great to always have a parking spot up close for him when needed or when he was in the car, but never understood why you did not have to pay meter, in MA if you have a placard you can park in any metered spot and not pay the meter.

I am all for a handicap spot on the docks, but that does not mean I want them to move to the front of the line to get to the dock before anyone else. If they are on the lake they should wait like everyone else. It is a lot different than the streets. If the spot is open for them then yes go in front of me and take the handicapped spot, if it is not though have to wait in line for another on or until that spot is available, which ever you prefer.

Good thought, but very poor execution and life is all about execution, however.

I actually invited 'this guy" onboard a few weeks ago and had a lengthy discussion regarding his objectives and offered him many suggestions on how to better approach his efforts. He was very appreciative and thanked me for my suggestions and left. As he was leaving (after about 30 minutes of discussions) he told me he had my bow numbers and was turning them into the NHMP. Nice guy I thought!!

Somehow it doesn't surprise me that this guy would do this. The world has gone crazy with political correctness!

Seriously? This is the guy who is responsible for the signs? Sounds like a Sienfeld character.

I believe the rational is that a mobility impaired person may have trouble getting back and forth to feed the meter. I dont disagre with you but it's such a small thing I'm not going to worry about it.

Actually SP,you can park at any meter in Manchester for free if you have a HC plate or placard.It says it right on the meter.

HC and parking meters.
 

I didn't know if that was just a local or national deal.

Thank you for helping me check that one off.
 

Kamper, that is the first logical reason I have ever heard. It is nice to have one of life's mysteries checked off the list.

I was at the Weirs yesterday and right at the train station cross walk I observed a handicap parking spot with no meter. It had a 15 minute time limit. I could not help but think that it was strange to offer free parking to someone who needs a little help but then give them a deadline to move the car or else.

15 minute time limit parking
 

Going back to feed a parking meter is illegal. When a meter has a two hour limit, that means you must leave within two hours. Putting more money in may prevent a ticket, but you are breaking the law. Also any time on the meter when you park is not yours. If you are parking for an hour you must put in an hours fee not matter how much is on the meter.

Last time I went to Wolfeboro I parked in the handicapped spaces. I was looking for someone to say something but nobody did.

I still dont get it!
 

I really do not get the concept of handicapped boat docks. I get that handicapped folks need that advantage in a parking lot - or on the street. To be closer to the shops, condos, restaurants, etc... that all makes sense.

BUT what I do not understand is the true purpose of a handicap boat dock? Its not set up for an advantage on proximity - it seems to me to be set up for advantage on not having to queue up for a spot? Why does the handicapped boater get to "pass go and collect 200" while the rest of us sit and wait our turns for a dock space? There seems not to be equity in that situation in Wolfeboro.

Where did handicapped boaters dock in Wolfeboro before the spaces were reserved this season?

I just do not get it?:confused:

These spots are clearly not intended to be the shortest walk. So they may be chosen as the easiest to dock at. Or they are just reserved so handicapped boaters don't have to wait. It seems like a reasonable kindness for people needing extra help. But, it should be a law or not at all. You can't have a zealot making up their own rules, it's no way to run a town.

Things like this start out well but can snowball. A family member lives in senior housing, where almost all the parking spots are labeled handicapped. There have been fist fights over who was handicapped enough to get close spots.

Get used to this type of thing, the baby boomers are getting older. The "Me" generation all think they are entitled to special treatment, and they'll sue to get it. Once everyone gets handicapped plates, then what do you do? Have different levels of handicapped?

"Civil disobedience" is a time honored method of protesting laws that are wrong. I'm not Rosa Parks, but the principal is the same. Ms Parks certainly "knew better".

However my actions were not even civil disobedience since I didn't violate anything and could not have been ticketed or fined even if you were there!

The best way to protest what is happening is to go to Wolfeboro and park in the spaces. It does a lot more than posting here.

Before the issue of reserving handicapped boat spaces got underway, I think the state should have had a box on its registration renewal form asking if the the registrant was handicapped. If enough folks checked the box, then the need could have been estimated. If it was great (which I still doubt for obvious reasons) then the following year the state could have required a doctors note with the renewal application to determine who was handicapped.
These folks could then be issued special handicapped plates or bow numbers.

Even in my system there would be no need for handicapped docking spots since the special bow number would move the boater to the front of the docking line for the next acceptable available spot.

RLW maybe you should try to pursue the implemenation of this system rather than hanging around the town docks looking for trouble. My guess is that most, if not all forum members, would embrace such a system as it would not waste limited docking resources while meeting the needs of those few who truly need some help.

I docked in the spots...
 

I docked in the handicapped spot yesterday around noon and was happy to see one available. The folks waiting to dock were numerous and were like vultures waiting for a bite of a new carcass. I was happy to be able to cut the whole line and avoid that nonsense. Can folks just back off a little bit when waiting for spots -- it makes it a heck of a lot easier for you to dock if you'll actually let folks OUT of the dock first. It made Christmas parking at the mall look good, but I digress...

We pulled in, tied up and cleaned up the boat a bit when a gentleman approached my wife and me to note that the spots were intended for the handicapped, which we clearly are not. I still have no idea how we are supposed to identify "legitimate" handicapped boaters, but the honor system certainly doesn't do it as the three other boaters I saw use the spaces had no visible or otherwise apparent disability.

That being said, about five minutes before the gentleman approached us we had helped my father-in-law off the boat. The victim of a massive stroke, he has a very visible physical impairment, walks (slowly) with a cane, and needs a lot of help off and on the boat. Short of having a wheelchair, if there's a definition of a handicapped boater, he fits it. And we were happy to be able to cut in line yesterday to dock...because we were hungry and didn't want to wait for lunch. :rolleye2:

That's really the sum total benefit of the handicapped spaces in our eyes -- they're a time saver. They're no closer to the parking lot or restaurants. They're still subject to the same wake and fluctuating water levels as the other spaces. (Note: His boating season is almost over this year because it's too hard to get in/out with the lower water levels). And if you ask me if the handicapped spots are a good idea -- as we discussed at dinner last night -- we agreed that they are not, for the very reasons I just noted. What's the other tangible benefit for the impaired? Especially when there's no established protocol or apparent enforcement for their use/misuse.

This is one view from legitimate users of the handicapped spaces: We just don't get it.

What would be a real solution?
 

Most of us are confused about the implementation of the current handicap spots.

I wonder if the collective brain power in this group could actually come up with a dock modification that would allow people easier access to and from the boat as the water level moves 18 inches during the year.

Any good ideas that would actually help. I know that my elderly parents have to time their annual visit to my island so that the water is at a reasonable height for getting in and out of the boat at both ends.

Let me start by saying I sympathize with your handicap, But, and this is a huge but, if there isn't actually a RSA: addressing these new handicap spots down there @ these docks, where do you or anyone else have the right to tell someone you can or cannot dock there. You can't just come up with an idea, and this one is just not needed, and shove it down our throats. I can tell you this I won't have any of your comments or looks when I do dock my boat at these docks I can tell you that. ps, careful who you challenge the next time at these dock, you never know who your dealing with.

Floating dock
 

You do what people with tides do ... you float the dock. The deck then stays the same height above the water. Generally a ramp, hinged at both ends, connects the floating part to any fixed (non-floating) part. The ramp then telescopes to account for the different length needed at high and low tides. Another more common method is to have the ramp (gangway) hinged at the fixed end and on wheels at the floating end so it rolls over the floater as it rises and falls.

I guess another method would be a "high" dock with a boat lift the picks the boat up and brings it to the dock's level, no matter the water level. So it's a lot of extra effort (and $$s) for the small "tide" we get each season.

Perhaps something a little less elaborate could be done for Winni ? The only idea that jumps to mind is to build a "low" dock and when the boat floats "high" above the dock early in the season ... use some steps to get up to the boat. Change the steps to lower ones as the "tide goes out" during the season.

As for the handicapped docks ... kjbathe pretty much summed up my thoughts.

I don't think special registrations is the answer. Boats are not like cars which are essential transportation. I doubt very many handicapped own boats. More likely they catch a ride on someone else's. I have had several people on my boat that have handicapped placards.

The best boating answer is a pontoon boat. You can open the side gate and just step or roll on-board. Much easier than trying to climb up and down over the gunwale.

Boaters are Boaters!
 

Boaters are boaters and that is it. If you are handicapped then you are, and if I am not I am not. Boating has and will always be a recreation ACTIVITY! I was reading the thread as always and noticed that someone had a handicapped Father-in-law from a massive stroke that cut the line to the dock and docked up at the handicap marked dock. WHY? that person that was impaired was a passenger on the vessel not the owner, and those docks are not even the closest to get to the shore. I do not think it is fair for others to have to wait in line, now if the person was a vetran then yes they should always have the right of way for putting their lives in danger for ours so we should return the favor. I just do not get it if you are able to get on the water in a boat then you are able to dock the boat anywhere like the rest of us and therefore wait in line like the rest of us. I think the line was "We did not want to wait for lunch," So doesn't the 15 other boats in line waiting to dock because they do not have a handicapped person on board. I am all for handicapped benefits on land, do not get me wrong, and I have expereince with it but on the water it is different esepcially when there is limited dock space to begin with and when the dock itself is not truely set up to be a handicapped dock. If they were to change the docks out there and made some handicapped friendly and made them the closest to the parking lot or stores then I can agree.

The only one on land I do not understand is how come a super store like Lowe's has abput 20 handicapped spots in one row that goes halfway down the parking lot yet there are much closer spots that are not handicapped at the beginning of other rows wouldn't make sense to make the first 2 or 4 spots in every row closest to the store handicapped instead of one whole row?

The meters in Manchester say handicap parking is free - limit 4 hours.

Handicap Docking
 

I talked to the official walking the docks in Wolfboro regarding the handicap docking. I believe he also keeps track of autos in the parking lot at the town docks(he has the tool marking the tires to keep track of how long they are parked there) There is no statute to cover handicap docking. If you dock there you can not be given a ticket. It is only a suggestion. There is nothing at that dock that makes it any easier than any other dock at the Wolfboro town docks for an individual who is physically impaired to disembark from their boat. If I am in Wolfboro and there is no other space to dock, I will dock at the area with painted blue posts if no one else wants to dock there and I am next in line.

If someone is boating and they are physically impaired then they were somehow able to enter the boat where they started from and they can disembark in Wolfboro at the town dock the same way. They should wait like everyone else.

The official I talked to was very angry that this dock was designated for handicap docking. He told me that over the winter without telling him the entire dock was taken for handicap docking. He protested to the authorities citing there is no statute to allow this and they relented agreed to what it is now presently. He all but outright told me to dock there if I wished.

I suggest every one else do the same. What fair is fair and this is not. This is nothing more than allowing someone to cut line.

Incorrect information
 

Taz, unfortunately whoever gave you that information is incorrect. Anyone who has noticed the blue posts go halfway down on the outermost dock. Also the blue handicapped signs coincide with the blue posts. Two weekends ago I docked in the spot closest to shore on the outermost dock. this was after the blue posts and there were no handicapped signs going up that far on the dock. We ran to the hardware store and rite-aid and when we came back I had a nice bright orange ticket on my windshield for $250 for parking in a handicapped spot. The ticket also said if I had a handicapped tag it had to be displayed. Every boat on the outside dock had a ticket on their windshield.

We were a little upset!! We pulled out and started to leave when we saw the marine patrol guy walking the docks. I turned the boat around and went back to my same parking spot (as no one had taken it yet). We proceeded to call the officer over and point out to him the blue posts only go 1/2 way down and we were clearly way past them. He said "well there is a sign right here" (at the end of the dock), however it is facing inland and you can't see it when pulling up in the boat. He explained that the whole outside of the dock was for handicapped parking and it was a serious offense and hence the ticket for $250, but he understood our argument and kindly decided to give us a warning and ripped up the ticket! But said next time we must diplay our handicapped tag if we had one. I told him I never heard of anyone getting one with thier boat. He didn't really have an answer for that.

At anyrate they can and will ticket you. I have a ticket to prove it, however it is now ripped in half and "warning" is written over it in black marker.

Must Display the Placard?
 

This is really a mess, isn't it? Following up on my earlier post when we "legitimately" used the spaces, I also thought we should be hanging the handicapped placard. But then I realized it was going to be hard to hang the placard on the boat at the same time it was hanging in the car. :rolleye2:

Perhaps we all need handicapped license plates instead of the placard, and then we can place one of the plates on the windshield of the boat???

And the whole side of the dock is restricted even though the few spots are clearly marked with blue and individual signs that DO face the water? With that logic one could argue that the whole row of parking spaces at Wal-Mart is for handicapped use even though only some of spaces are blue and the remainder are white because there's a sign at the end of the row??? Did they run out of blue paint in Wolfeboro and we're just supposed to know the intent was to keep painting the whole side? :laugh:

It's clear to me that few, if any, know what the rules are for the use of these spots or how their mis/use should be enforced. I'm still seeing the only benefit as time savings for handicapped boaters. And to AC2717's point above, I don't think the time of disabled individuals is any more valuable than the rest of ours. Unless/until a coherent and enforceable policy can be developed and communicated, the spaces should be opened up for everyone to use.

What law does the ticket say you violated?

Wolfeboro Docks Question
 

The whole situation at the Wolfeboro Town docks regarding handicapped boat parking can be summed up in very plain, simple language: The local selectman don't have the @#%%s to tell Mr Hanson to stop being such a pain in the backside. Mr Hanson is only doing this to continually prove his point. Okay, we get it. Now quit it. In all my time around the Wolfeboro docks I have NEVER seen him boating. He was upset with the boat show a few years ago because he couldn't park his car in the designated handicapped space; however, the boat show committee had made other, more generous arrangements for handicapped parking during the show, but he wanted the originally designated space. Somebody needs to tell the Emperor his new clothes are inappropriate.

marine patrol?
 

olivernh - Yes, this is really confusing. I assume the guy you talked to about the ticket was a Wolfeboro officer of some sort, perhaps one of their traffic control people, and not a Marine Patrol officer. As a former NHMP officer, I can tell you that the Marine Patrol does not have jurisdiction over docks or docking. It's up to individual towns to enforce their own rules concerning docks.

I spoke this morning to the Wolfeboro PD. The dispatcher was even uncertain about what was going on, but it's developing. The chief called me back promptly with the following useful information:

Although the docks are marked, there is presently no ordinance governing the parking. An ordinance is being worked on, but until one is passed, no formal enforcement action can be taken. In other words, you cannot be cited for violation of a non-existent rule. No ordinance = no violation. You should not have received a ticket of any sort, and the chief would like to hear from anyone who does receive one so he can straighten out his enforcement. Until an ordinance is passed, the use of the handicapped dock is an "honor system" proposition.

I hope this clears up at least some of the confusion.

BTW - camp guy - You're absolutely right. Mr. Hanson is apparently another example of the ADA gone crazy. Like many other examples, the ADA was a perfectly good and necessary law which has been corrupted to ridiculous extremes such as this. Here we go again!

City & Town ordinances/docking
 

Skprbob is correct. New Hampshire State law empowers cities and towns within the State to regulate docking within their particular jurisdictions by city or town ordinance. The Town of Wolfeboro therefore can declare certain docks "Handicap Access Only" but must do so by passing an applicable town ordinance in compliance with their respective town charter.

When & if such a town ordinance were passed, it would only be enforceable by the Town itself. The NHMP would have no jurisdiction to enforce a town ordinance.

Enforcement officer of some type?
 

Skprbob and Skip, I'm sure you're correct and I misspoke regarding a "marine patrol" officer. He was some type of enforcement officer but I guess I'm not sure from where. I assume Wolfeboro enforcement. As far as cited offense, it was for docking/parking in a handicapped spot. I wish I had the ticket with me (then I might post a copy here) but it is at the lake. I will look at it this weekend when I get up there and see what other information is on it. I don't want to get anyone in trouble as the officer was very nice and understanding once we pleaded our case to him. I was glad to get it taken care of there because I was definately going to fight it but of course that would have meant missed work and hassle etc.