Bad economy/speed limit=bad news for lake businesses
 

with the already bad economy and the new speed limit on the lake. I think the local restaurants and gas stations on the lake will def suffer huge losses this summer. I know lots of people that wont be going to dinner by boat any more do to the 25mph limit set at night. there is also a large group of people that are boycotting the lake do to this new law.

I hope the next two years fly by so we can get a more realistic law in place like speed limits in bays like Alton Bay, Paugus bay Ect. weekends only

I heard/believe that the law is only being active for the 2009 season only. After this year, it is going back to no speed limit on the lake. This year is a probationary/ trial time to see how affective the "law" is to boaters

Agree or disagree with the law, I haven't heard of anyone that will be boycotting going to dinner because they can't go faster than 25 mph at night. Even at that speed, which I will not exceed after dark anyway, the lake is only a 30-35 minute cruise from one end to the other.

While I'm against the speed limit, I suspect the general economy will have the biggest impact on the local lake economy, and the the speed limit will hardly have any affect. I always felt that the economic arguments against a speed limit were silly.

That said, I have a list of the businesses that support a speed limit, and do avoid spending my money with them.

I for one would love that list so that my family can make sure we don't support those businesses.

My family plans to go out to dinner more, not less. We feel the experience will be more enjoyable than in the past. Maybe others will return as well.

I too seriously doubt there are many, if any, folks that won't go out to dinner because they can't go over 25 mph at night. Yes, it's a silly law but that would be like biting off your nose to spite your face. What's the point?

I would, however, be interested in seeing that list, Dave. Can you you share it?

Well I for one will do a lot more boating this season. Speed limit can only enhance the quality of the lake.

I would like to see the list also, You have to remember some people have boats that will not plain at 25 making the trip at night unsafe and in our mind will make even more of an impact on erosion

OH my.. sorry to disagree.. I have talked to numerous people that said they will not be coming up because they do not want the hassel. It's a shame really....

I will certainly be usung my boat as much if not more than usual. I to have heard a number of people that due to economic conditions will be boating alot less. It's a shame but should open up and ease congestion which will be fantastic. Heading to the boat shortlt for the day.

I probably won't be going out to dinner much by boat, and certainly not to Wolfeboro or Alton (I live in the Weirs). I know of several people who feel the same way...

The problem is @ 25MPH my 26' boat is in transition... its not on plane, the nose is high, stern is squatted and I am pushing some serious water causing a monster wake. The boat absolutely GUZZLES gas at this speed....

I ran some tests last year with GPS, and the SLOWEST I could go without wallowing and coming off plane was 28MPH (GPS)... but this required me to first accellerate up to 34 MPH (GPS), drop the trim tabs, then throttle off to get down to 28 MPH. I doubt I will get a ticket using this method, but technically I would be in violation. If the MP witness me accelerate, they might hit the blues before I get a chance to get the tabs dropped and back off the throttle...

I dont really mind a night time speed limit, but 25 is just too low. My thoughts on the daytime limit are well documented! :rolleye1::rolleye1:

Might be time to invest in radar detector.....

Woodsy

It seems that the problem with the law, especially the nighttime speed limit, is that it was written by NON-BOATERS who do not boat on Winnipesaukee. That is absolutely absolutely ludicrous. If anyone of the nimwits who wrote the law IS a boater than they are a very BAD boater that had no business writing the law in the first place. 25 MPH sounds so warm and fuzzy but for most boats including runabouts such as mine it is almost impossible to do 25 MPH without falling off plane and causing and enormous wake! So are we all to plow around the lake all night causing monster swells? :rolleye2:

This is going to be an interesting summer. I am looking forward to all the observations by forum members this summer. ;)

However, I also feel that from an economey standpoint there won't be much of an impact... other then maybe slightly on the gas pumps.. For all those people not coming there will be others that will come to support local businesses. They will still have to camp, eat etc. But I bet more people with smaller boats, kayaks, canoes etc will come where those spending hundreds if not thousands in gas won't be coming.

I am there either way... so see you out there!

Publicity
 

I don't think bad economy or the speed limit is the problem we are facing. I spent winters in CO and I spent the last 2 months on Lake Norman in NC. It is the publicity everyone is hearing that is destroying the reputation of the lake.

I definitely think the bad economy is going to hurt the lake worse than the speed limit, although there will be some impact at the gas pumps and restaurants. When was the last time you saw a bunch of kayakers pull up to the town docks, go drop $500 on dinner then leave... I suspect the big charity poker runs will also be down in revenue because the big boys arent welcome here anymore. There is already an abundance of boat slips for rent and sale...

The average family boaters doesnt have (or will not spend) the money to come stay on Winni as they had in the past. Several families that I know of who would come for the summer are now coming for a month (and trying to rent out thier cottage when they arent using it), others who would come for 2 weeks are down to 1 week, and others are just going to day trip... All in all everyone is cutting back, and that impact will be felt here on Winni.

I suspect a very non-congested boating season, with business down all around...

Woodsy

The cruise speed on my boat is about 26-27 mph. Anything less than that, I have to trim down, use more gas, and create a large wake(more erosion). More gas means less often going out to spend money at night. Usually I would go out during daylight, and return after dark. I keep my boat on Long Island so anywhere that serves dinner is a long cruise to be intentionally using more fuel than necessary.

I'd hope they wouldn't go after me for the little bit over, but if they are looking for a reason to pull someone over, well..............

well the good news is that I hear they are cutting MP force in half do to the bad times. there wont be many around to enforce the speed limit..... My radar detector will make its way to the boat every time I go out just to give me the heads up...

I'm no supporter of the speed limit law, but I would also point out that 25MPH is the LIMIT. You can, in fact, go slower than this speed. And every hull design I've ever seen is more efficient at right around displacement speed than even when on plane (baring hydrofoils and the like).

If you can't get/stay on plane at 25MPH, then go slower, or stay home.

This sky-is-falling attitude about the speed limit law is really pathetic (sorry). And just like a speedlimit law on the streets, I would *highly* doubt that anyone is going to get a ticket for going 28 or 32MPH at night. These tickets, if any are actually written, are going to be very hard to enforce, with boat speedometers generally being very inaccurate.

Brk...

You prove my point.... If i go at displacement speed say 6-8 MPH, a round trip from the Weirs to Meredith will be approximately 1 1/2-2 hours... add in an hour or so for dinner.... it turns into a 3 hour tour! While some nights this might be enjoyable, on others less so.

At displacement speed you can forget about going to Center Harbor, Wolfeboro or Alton!! I would have to leave at noon and hope to be back at midnight!

At this point it just becomes easier to take the car... and thats a shame!

Woodsy

Since the MP opposed the speed limit law I doubt that they'll be aggressively enforcing it. No one is going to be out there with a radar gun looking to bag people going 5 MPH over.

We are now in a 2 year test period for the law. Let's see how it goes. Let's see what the level of enforcement is and how it really effects the economy. After 2 years we can let our thoughts be known to the legislature.

There is one huge problem. The NH legislature is now more Liberal than the Massachusetts legislature. Nanny state laws are flooding out of Concord almost faster than we can keep track. With this kind of thinking in the State House a continuation of the speed limit seems likely. What were NH voters thinking when they completely reversed course and discarded the small government, Conservative principles that served the state so well for so long?

Yup, so the real question is going to be will the potentially lost revenue from people who feel they can no longer take their boat to dinner someplace be offset by the people who now (supposedly) feel less endangered on the lake?

And, if you take the car instead of the boat, the economic impact becomes a zero-sum game...

I am in complete agreement with Woodsy on this. I can't go 15 MPH to 28 MPH in my 29' boat without a huge wake and huge fuel comsumption. I can go 25 MPH, but I have to plane first and I need to go 28 MPH to 30 MPH to get on plane. Therefore, there might be a night or two where a very slow ride to Meredith might make sense, but if there is any chance of thunderstorms or if it is cold, forget it. We will either stay home or take the car.

I do not pay the high taxes and property costs to live on the lake and take the car to dinner in the summer months. It just does not make sense to me. Therefore, we are much more likely to eat at home this summer than to take the car to dinner. We might eat more locally and walk.

R2B

I did not support the limit either but always thought projecting economic effects of a limit or lack of one was ridiculous. The economy is too complex. Some fast power boaters might stay away, some people who like to putt around might come. There were no provable economic declines because of the faster boats on the lake. Everything was just speculation to support an agenda.

On the other hand I expect the economy to have a big effect. People may come to the lake but they will be looking for bargains. Cooking more of their own meals, dining at less expensive restaurants. That's why Walmart's profits are up while other retailers are down. People that can buy are being much more frugal. In a vacation area where people tend to splurge that will have a big effect. Someone walking into a craft shop who used to have the discretionary income to drop a couple hundred on some neat trinket will decide they can't afford it this year. They will set limits like only one day at the water slides or Funspot. Where they can they will be downscaling their activities. Shopping trips will be more for necessities and they will be looking for bargains. There may be just as many boats on the lake, gas after all is about half the price as last year. However it will be the activities after getting off the boat that will suffer.

Both post in this thread from you are argumentative and contain ignorance. People including myself, Woodsy, R2B and others are posting factual statements considering the FACT that if we follow the law we can not enjoy our boats at night. FACT! No embellishment, no hearsay, no wild accusation just plain fact. We are merely pointing out a fact that as a bi-product of this law we can not obey the law and enjoy it. We can go 6-8 MPH at night and take several hours to do our trip or as YOU SAY we can break the law and go 32MPH and be looking over our shoulder the entire ride worrying that the MP doesn't pull us over. Well that sucks in OUR opinion. You are entitled to yours but I'd appreciate if you didn't dismiss our concerns as "pathetic."

Let me make something else VERY clear. I own a 26 foot BOWRIDER capable of a top speed of 47MPH. At night this boat will not stay on plane at 25MPH. So this law affects the Bow Rider family boat crowd just as much.

Very well said. I believe you hit the nail on the head that not only one group of people (I now being part of that group) are adversley effected. But as long as the kayakers and canoers can go out in the middle of the broads at night all good.. :eek:

This is the list of speed limit supporting entities that Winnfabs published a few years ago during the HB162 days. It may be inaccurate today, but I still use it. Thank Winnfabs for putting it toghether, I'm just passing it along.

The Common Man
Ashalnd Insurance
Strictly Rentals
Wild Meadow Canoes and Kayaks
Centre Harbor Cellars
Center Harbor Inn
AMC (Appalachian Mountain Club)
NH Audubon
New Hampshire Lakes Association (NHLA)
Decker Machinery Company
The Architectural Studio
Fay’s Boat Yard
Birch Island Camp Association
Gilford Islands Association (GIA)
Jolly Island Association
Lockes Island Association
Belknap Landscaping Company
Design Quest
DK Net Design
E&S Insurance LLC
The Hair Factory
Mike’s Ala Carte Catering
Pepi Herrmann Crystal, Inc.
Glendale Marine
River Edge Marina
Squam Lakes Association (SLA)
Cottage Place on Squam Lake
Squam Lake Inn
Me Designs
Barrons Billiards
Blooms Vanity
J&J Printing
LaBelles Shoe Store
Central & Northern Title
Haughey, Philpot & Laurent
Lakeside Hotel Assoc.
Sundial Shops
Paugus Bay Marina
Best Western Silver Fox Inn
Griffin Bodi Krause
Municipal Resources, Inc.
Great Northern Trading Co
Meredith Marina
Y-Landing
Bear Island Conservation Association (BICA)
East Bear Island Conservation Association
AMC- 3 Mile Island
Winnipesaukee Rowing Club
Alexandria Lamp Shop
Case N’ Keg
Chris Dupont Painting
Christopher P. Williams, Architects
Eisenberg Chiropractic
Hawkins Photography
Hobo Railroad
Landscapes By Tom
League of NH Craftsmen
Mastiff Builders
Omni Signs
Patricia’s “Specially for You”
Pemi Glass Company
Pretty Petunias Garden Center
Remax Bay Side Real Estate
Remcon/North
Sagecliff Software, Inc.
The Village Perk
Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad
GASCO Realty, LLC
51 Main Street, LLc
Inns & Spa at Mill Falls
Meredith Bay Painting
The Lake House Grille
Lago
Camp
Town Docks Restaurant
Mame's
The Gallery at Mill Falls
Oglethorp
Guiseppies Resturant
Northern Air Trading
Lady of the Lake Clothing
Adorments
Creative Clothing
Christopher P. Williams, Architect
Oak Street Associates
Old Mill Insurance
Innisfree Bookstore
Phoenix Leasing, Inc.
Silver Top Ventures
Minuteman Plumbing & Heating
Sava Designs
Horn Insurance
Harts Restaurant
Fermentation Station LLC
Hunter's
Waukewan Antiques
Village Greenery
Etcetera Shop
Associated Surveyors
Moulton Farm
Barber Pole Association
Trexler’s Marina
Land’s End
Wyman Trail Association
Loon Preservation Committee
1st T Development Corporation
The Woodshed Restaurant
Castle in the Clouds
Amoskeg Insurance
EPTAM Plastics
The Common Man Inn
Corner House Inn
Seacoast Kayak
Tilton Veterinary Hospital
Waterville Valley Condo Rental
Thurston’s Marina
Lighthouse Inn
Weirs Beach Motel and Cottages
Van's Hotel Enterprises
Wolfboro Inn
Island Real Estate of New Hampshire
LB Boat Restoration
Millie B
Wolfeboro Trolley Company
Wolfetrap Restaurant

You CAN enjoy your boat at night, although perhaps not in the manner you might be accustomed to. Perhaps this will change your desire to do things on the lake where you would have previously taken your boat out at night if you feel the only way your boat has any utility is at planing speed. If this is true, and you (and the others) spend a statistically significant amount of revenue in scenarios that involve your boat use after-hours, then I would encourage you to not partake in those activities this year by car OR boat so that the realistic economic impact of the speed limit law can be properly measured.

I did not dismiss your concerns as pathetic, I said that the approach to voicing them is pathetic (and I stand by that statement). Trying to predict some horrible doom and gloom scenario 2 days after ice-out is just a bit, IMO.

You take issue with my comments around going at 32MPH... Are you going to tell me that you do exactly the speed limit on all the roadways as well? Because you'd be the first person I've met that suddenly believes speed limits are both strictly followed, and strictly enforced, items.

So far you have not posted any FACTs that you cannot "enjoy" your boat at night. You have posted much opinion though. If you cannot see the distinction between these two things, there is little need to respond.

I have a 25 foot boat, with a single-stepped hull, 24 degrees of deadrise at the transom, and terrible weight distribution due to the big block engine option. It's obviously a pretty bad combination for slow speed planing, but it'll easily plane out at 19 MPH with the tabs down, and 24 MPH (speeds measured with GPS, not the OEM speedometer) with the tabs retracted. I have a Bravo 3 drive, so I suppose that helps a lot, but I find it hard to believe there's many boats out there that really won't plane at 25 MPH.

Mine does get substantially better gas mileage from 28 MPH to 40 MPH compared to 25 MPH though (as measured with a Lowrance LMF-200). Literally, 40% better.

All good points here.. Again, I don't think we will be able to judge, if at all, the limits will have effected the economy. Those in favor will say "The limits had no effect, the down turn was the economy in general". Those opposed will say "the business is down due to the limits etc etc" But when all is said and done there will be really no way to prove the economic impact what so ever. Most likely it will balance itself out.

As for the arguements concerning gas consumption.......... I will refer back to what my father and others have told me.... "If you are asking what you boat gets for MPG... You shouldn't buy a boat"

As you may have guessed or seen from prior threads I am Dead set against the limits. I think it is another law instituted on our freedoms. If current laws were enforced these never would have been instituted or needed (and still isn't IMO). Now the state has just another reason to ruin your good time.

The biggest mistake made was linking them to your MVR. I believe even the 150 foot rule is now linked as well as a moving violtation (don't quote me on that). Before, these infractions were money makers for the state. Out of staters and most in staters would normally just pay the fine for it wasn't in their best interests to fight it. Pay it and get it over with.. That is what I always did even when it was a bogus charge. A day off from work would cost a whole lot more then the simple fine. Now by linking them people will have to fight them. So this will flood our courts and cost the tax payers (not the out of staters) huge court fees. Plus as we have all read how it will be so difficult to prove. The 150 is an arbitrary "he said she said" law and the radars have proven to be inaccurate at best.

So with that said, This is going to be a very interesting year!

Thats quite the list
 

I had a boat and loved it but did not have the time to use it anymore and I enjoy paddling more, you would not catch me on the big lakes anyway before or after the limits, I enjoy my nature a little more remote and quiet.

But.., that list has some organizations that do a considerable amount of good on and off the lake. The AMC for example has done more to protect the accessibility of and the pretection of, forests around the lakes region as well as the rest of New England. To say that you will not patronize anyone on that list is quite a leap into the deep end. I am not trying to get into it, just pointing out that not everyone on that list is "Evil", but by the same token that would mean you will not be stepping foot on any of the trails in New England this year because you would have a difficult time finding one that has not had AMC members working to make them better or keep them clean.;)

Like I said not trying to start anything, just wanting to point out the broader scope of your statement. I do not support the speed limit in anyway. End of disclaimer.:)

Here we go again.Help.

I agree. I don't think the list is "evil" either. I still will go to dinner at many of the resturants. However, I will give those on the list credit for at least standing up for what they believe and advertising it. So many people hide their views and are willing to give support only if it is anonomous.

I absolutely do not support the limits, but I will not change where I am a patron because of these either. That will not solve anything.

It doesn't mean you can't mention it to the owner of the establishment if you have the chance to speak with them however.

Correct
 

Posted by OCDACTIVE
"It doesn't mean you can't mention it to the owner of the establishment if you have the chance to speak with them however."

That is correct.

Conspiracy?
 

It's like they were all waiting around the corner! :eek:

Dave...

That Bravo 3 Dual prop drive is the key.... it pushes alot of water very efficiently at lower speeds.... nothing pops a boat on plane better or quicker than the Merc Bravo 3 or Volvo Duoprop setup...

But like everything... there is a tradeoff to be made!

The dual props become less efficient at higher speeds... thats alot of blade area to spin and it requires sustantially more HP to spin the faster it goes... and water does not compress. All things being equal thats why the huge difference in gasoline consumption.

A high performance boat such as my 26' Donzi is setup (weighted, balanced, propped) to go fast... 67-69 MPH. But like everything else there is a tradeoff. The boat doesnt like 25 MPH... even with the tabs down! The propeller is cavitating, the stern squatting and the nose is high.. and the wake rivals a Carver! I am sure its compounded on the larger heavier high performance boats.

Its funny but everything settles down smoothly at 30-32 MPH. You wouldnt think 5-6 MPH would make a big difference but it does.

For the record.. I seriously doubt the MP is going to pull you over for going 30 MPH... but you never know.

Woodsy

I am 100% in agreement with you. I moved to NH to get away from Mass... But it seems we have been over run.

The testing period is an absolute joke.... The had the intial testing last year. The winfabs pushed for the testing zones to prove how many "fast boats" are out there going at ludicris speed (any spaceballs fans out there?)... Anyway, once the data started coming in where there were almost no one going over 50mph they changed their tactics. They asked for the test to be called off for it wasn't showing accurate data (so they claimed) and started saying things like "see the limits do work. Because people knew they were being gunned they didnt go fast"

No matter what people will use data to show support of their cause.

I am just so fed up with the state and its liberal legislature that I feel nothing can be done. Logic and reason have been thrown right out the window.

OMG!!!! They have gone PLAID!!!! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I thought it was law that you need bow and stern lights at night?

Who in their "right " mind would be in the broads with a kayak or canoe?
Maybe some drunk or crackhead!


Why is it that the large boat owners that reside on and use the Lake, think the lake belongs only to them!!!

Everyone has the right to be safe on the lake, the lack of respect that I've experienced by those big boats while fishing is unbelievable.

The bottom line is, if everyone showed the respect to one another as they maintain, there would be NO need for any additional laws!

I also don't think anyone will be stopped for going 10mph over in a safe way, but just the passing of the law will undoubtably make people more aware of what they're doing and will make the lake safer for all.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!! nice Woodsy!!!! So when does the naswa open?