Please wear your life vests!
 

Especially when out alone at 0530!! You not only endanger yourself, but also your rescuers!
http://www.wmur.com/news/28064499/detail.html

Yes, kayaking or canoeing without a PFD on is stupid.

We see most paddlers going by with the PFD down in the boat. If you end up in the water most likely it was because the wind and waves suddenly came up. You'll surface and look around to see your kayak blowing away with the PFD in it. Even if you manage to get to the PFD, it is not easy to put one on out there in the waves.

Another thought, if you often kayak alone, consider learning how to self rescue (as in getting back into the kayak and getting the residual water out). Some simple gear is involved; paddle tether, paddle float and a hand pump. If you often paddle longer trips with others, consider having the group learn how to assist a paddler in getting back into their kayak.

5 more
 

There were five of them in Alton Bay yesterday. Three women and two guys and all had their vests tied to the front of their kayaks. Not one of them would put them on. They come in all ages. Stupidity can't be stopped.

I think the solution is spend some money and buy a comfortable PFD that you will not mind wearing for long periods. I couldn't wear one of those orange vests but I have no problem with my SOS inflatable or my kayak vest.

Speaking of kayaks, some meat head was out in the broads yesterday afternoon, dark blue boat, paddle with black paddle ends. There was just enough chop to where you could barely make him/her out bobbing up and down, matter of fact it's a good thing I had somebody in the bow who was keeping an eye peeled or I could have easily hit this person. What on earth these people are thinking is beyond me. It's foolish to venture out into an area like that in the first place middle of the day when there is a fair amount of traffic out there, but then to not have something that is a super bright color so you can be spotted is beyond belief and ignorant. This happens far to often and it's just a matter of time before one of these people get killed.

I thought of and probably should have reported that to MP.

A Vested Interest in Safety?
 

About an hour ago, in a heavy chop, I saw two tandem kayakers dressed in bright red. Powerboats were coming very close to both of them, but no one appeared to offer advice or assistance.

:idea: Then I remembered, I had seen these two tandem kayakers last year—in the exact same spot!

—-> Take a look at Flasher 19 and its companion red buoy <-— They can trick you into thinking they're two kayakers! :eek2: Every kayaker I know, is of a greater size than a Winnipesaukee navigational aid. :emb:

How can you see Winnipesaukee's navigation markers, and not see kayakers? :confused:

Nothing to see here...........

HA- I'm sure if I hit that person at the ~22 MPH I was going they surely would have walked away without a mere scratch. Thanks for pointing that out!

Please stop
 

Can you folks who seem unable to post on this forum without twisting it into something SL related please just stop. Really.

If you think you're winning converts to your point of view by your immature behavior, you're sadly mistaken. I suspect the opposite is true.

So it's summer (well almost). Like it or not there is a speed limit on the lake. Deal with it and stop dragging this site off topic every chance you get.

Thank you.

Well said MI.

This really is getting ridiculous....fortunately (or unfortunately) it's the same handful of members, several of which should know better! :(

There's Rusty, or I mean Bob jumping onto another bandwagon..:rolleye1:

Ok, ok, I pulled it, sorry for hijacking the thread. You're right Skip, I should know better than to poke the warriors on either side of that issue, I'll try to behave in the future. Peace.

I was out today in my Seadoo and I had trouble seeing many kayaker's. In fact I mentioned to Redwing as she was riding with me. I was wondering if kayaks should have flags on the back like some bicyclists have on their bikes? I wouldn't be opposed to it myself. Redwing and I both own kayaks and we paddle often in Green's Basin.

The navigation markers are designed to be seen. A kayaker in a dark colored kayak with a dark colored PFD blend right in to the darker water or the backdrop of the dark green trees.

Not only are the NAV aids meant to be seen but once you know the lake you actually expect to see them. They also stick out of the water higher than a paddler too.

Not wearing a PFD while in a canoe or kayak on the lake is dumb but I also support Darwinism:laugh:

I read the report in the link to WMUR, and it seems that either the reporter got some facts wrong or knows little about the local geography. It said that the kayaker overturned near the Long Island bridge, then stayed with the kayak and swam toward Dow Island. Uhmmm, if he overturned near the bridge, why wouldn't he have swum over toward the beach? Why would he swim, what, a mile and a half downlake to Dow? I speculate that he overturned nearer Dow. Maybe he just put in at the LI beach by the bridge. Does anyone know the real story?

Kayaks are cheap and it is easy to learn the basics, this leads to a false sense of security. It's like when mountain bikes went mainstream, suddenly a bunch of people ended up in emergency rooms with broken bones.

If we want to live in a free society were people can make their own decisions about their own safety, then we have to live with the fact that some people will make the wrong decisions. Obviously we should educate people when we can but what else can we do?

Pointing out the visibility problem is at least a start. No law is going to fix this, but where at all possible stressing the concept of wearing high color contrast clothing or better yet paddle ends would be great.

I thought it was more than just dumb... isn't it illegal? I had always been taught that when on a kayak, like when skiing or boarding, you were required to actually be wearing the vest/jacket. No?

You are required to have one on board a canoe or kayak for each person but they don't have to be worn. Dumb yes but not illegal.

I agree with this statement, unfortunately where I begin to stumble is when you consider that should a boat run over one of these people making their own decisions the legal system invariably will place 100% of the blame on the boat operator. That's troublesome for me, not so much on a clear calm day where the blame would be the boat operator's, but on days such as Maxum describes, with a chop substantial enough to obscure the paddler most of the time, (which happens much more than you would think on the lake) that's an issue without an easy answer.

Well other than voluntary education what else can you do?

Mandatory education, a kayak license. That will never fly and that didn't work all that well for power boats.

Mandatory colors, flags or reflectors? Could work, I guess you could pass the law and most people would find a way to comply. I'm surprised this is not more national and focused on the manufacturers. Insurance companies forced reflectors and similar gear on bicycle makers years ago.

I really think the visibilty issue is a little overblown, how often have actual collisions occured, discounting night time. Sure I've been a little surprised by kayaks where I didn't expect them, but never anywhere near a collision danger.

While in a kayak, I've been startled by a quiet boat passing closer than expected but never dangerously close. Other than wakes, I've never felt endangered by a passing boat.

BTW I don't wear my life jacket while kayaking unless the water is cold or I venture away from shore. On a warm summer day, less than 250' from shore, why do I need to have it on?

The key part of your statement is surprised by seeing them where you didn't expect them. That's pretty much what's happened to me a number of times. You don't expect to see them out in the middle of the broads on a fairly choppy day. I typically try to keep my distance from any other boat and like knowing what's around me so that I have time to anticipate and plot my course. I hate it when all of a sudden I'm bearing down on somebody like that and it appears as thought they just appeared from out of the blue. It's just not a very smart idea. It's a big lake and plenty of room out there for everyone, just would be nice to see some common sense employed in this situation and others like it.

Yes, You don't see many powerboats or sailboats wearing camo or all black!

Seriously, most SUB (sport utility boat, canoes or kayaks) deaths are due to drowning (also ask MP about the open zipper syndrome), generally from lack of PFD use. For some reason PFDs are more comfortable to sit or kneel on!

Consider an self inflating PFD. They are not cheap, but what is your life worth?

I don't want a law to force visibility but I sure hope the jury can take conditions and visibility into account when I don't see them in time.

Boat US says the Coast Guard is considering a law to make adult life jackets mandatory.

Seatbelts too!

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Then we can be sure to go down with the boat, right?

I went out in the kayak all last season with the life vest tucked under the elastic strap on the kayak's bow. This season I will be sport'n an inflatable and feeling better about my choice.

Here are some of the differences between Navigation markers and Kayakers that might answer your question:

• Navigation markers stay in place -- where you expect them. Every day. Same spot.
• You can actually plan around the markers, because they are all mapped out. And there's only a fixed number of them.
• Navigation markers usually follow well-known rules. In fact, I don't know of any markers that don't follow the rules.
• Navigation markers wear distinct, pre-defined colors -- that actually mean something.
• If you hit a Navigation marker, it's always your fault.

And just to be complete, here are some of the similarities between Navigation markers and Kayakers. These similarities are not necessarily all good, though:

• Some Navigation markers are lit up. So are some Kayakers. The first is a good thing; the second not so good.
• When you see them, Navigation markers are so slow that you should have time to avoid them. Same with Kayakers.
• Many Navigation markers are in some dangerous areas of the lake. After reading some of these comments, so are some Kayakers.

So, what do you call a difficult-to-see kayak that has, for example, the color scheme of camoflage woodland forest or some other camo color....like, for example, a blue water-whitecaps-grey sky camo scheme?

Answer; a speedbump!

Can you get inflatable PFDs, that don't auto inflate? When I kayak, I often jump in for swim to cool off or punch through a big wake for fun, getting soaked. Either case I don't want the PFD to inflate. I have a sit-on-top, it's not a dry ride.

Yes
 

West Marine has manual inflatable vests that have a D ring to pull to activate, and also a manual air tube to literally inflate it manually. Blow Blow Blow your boat :laugh:.

As has been noted manual inflate models are available. In fact that is what we use in our kayaks. They are closed boats but still can be wet enough topside to set-off an auto inflate model. Also I like to practice my roll once in a while.

The inflatable models also have a backup provision in case the CO2 inflation fails. There is a pull out tube for inflation by blowing into the tube.

The manual inflate PFDs are so comfortable that we even wear them in the power boats when under way.

I purchased a manual inflatable for exactly this reason. I did not want the unit to auto-inflate from a simple splash or simple kayak roll-over.

The new auto's are much better than the old ones (that used to self-inflate in a light rain or splashing) but still occasionally pop if not protected or stored properly, according to my research.

If kayaking in very cold water, I would go auto though.

life jacket
 

I have a lifrjscket made for kayaking. It is shorter than the standard orange types and works well. I ware it on not zipped. If a problem arises,
a quick zip does it.

...if the life jacket self-inflates while in the kayak...are you "stuck" inside the kayak...:laugh:...I only ask because I have been stuck upside down on a Knee-board before I could release the velcro knee strap...:eek:...

No, that is not an issue. Of course if you wear a spray skirt like we do you should first learn a quick "wet exit" in shallow water with an assistant standing by. You could also do a trial run with the inflatable PFD at the expense of a CO2 cartridge.

'Liked your post anyway!
 

Inflatable Life Jackets
 

I found Cabela's to have very competitive prices on inflatable life jackets.
I purchased one last year, it's comfortable and I wear it all of the time.
Wearing a life jacket is a personal decision similar to wearing a motorcycle helmet.
Live Free or Die!

Common Sense is a Valuable Virtue in all boating??
 

I value my life and practice self defense on water. My kayaks are red or yellow. My MADE FOR KAYAKS LIFEVESTS ARE BRIGHT YELLOW AND IN NO WAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT. I wear my kayak vest zipped and ask guests to do the same. I hug the shore in busy traffic times and venture off in open water only in sight of shore in quiet times. I do miss being able to go across a channel to a small island on a Sunday afternoon but know better just the same. The wakes are too big and there are too many boats. I can do that during the week.

It is not just that I am old enough to have gained some wisdom, it is also that I have always been a bit timid around boats and water. My first boat was a Sunfish. I learned to sail it on Lake Michigan. WE HAD TO TAKE LESSONS; AT THE END WE EACH HAD TO SAIL A TRI ANGULAR COURSE AND TURN TURTLE AND RIGHT THE BOAT ETC TO BE ALLOWED TO SAIL. Maybe we need to have more of that on the lake.

Test Question...
 

:eek2: Can you find one NAV aid, one military helicopter, at least one powerboat—of four—and one kayak in this photo—taken yesterday? :confused:

:look:

Additional points:

Can you describe the color of this NAV aid—in bright sun?

O.k., I'll take the test. :D The kayak is the one up in the sky, right? Whoops, sorry, wrong type of blades. ;)

The helicopter (looks like a Blackhawk) is obvious. The kayak and foremost boat is obvious.

Using the foremost powerboat as the focal point, there appears to be a boat 1/3 of the way to the left, between the foremost boat, and the NAV aid. There is another one to the far right of the picture, heading somewhat towards your position at the time the picture was taken.

Between the foremost boat, and the one to the far right, there appears to be another boat about 2/3rd's of the way to the right from the foremost boat to the far right boat.

Without the ability to look for a corresponding NAV aid, and a picture without a higher resolution, my guess is that the NAV aid is red and white.

To all that posted in this thread, thank you. Many valid points were raised about PFD's, kayak colors, and for lack of a better term, boating defensively.

Trying to kayak across the lake in a dark colored kayak with a dark colored paddle is pretty much foolhardy. Not wearing a PFD out in the middle of the lake isn't any better. Unfortunately, there are many individuals that don't take the time to consider the environment that they are going into, what might happen during their travels, or how their choices might make it more difficult for others to respond in a timely manner.

My own kayak is a bright lime green, in order for there to be contrast between the kayak and water. The kayak has SOLAS reflective tape on the bow, stern, and sides. My PFD is red and black, also having SOLAS tape on the front and back of it. My paddle blades are white, and have the SOLAS tape on the front and back of the paddles as well.

With the appropriate precautions, a kayaker should be able to travel somewhat freely around the lake. Granted, the broads probably wouldn't be the best idea on a busy day. Traveling between the shore and Rattlesnake, I always try to see who's heading my way, and make course corrections accordingly, or simply come to a stop and wait them out. Better to arrive later and alive, than not at all.

YakAttack makes what's called the VISICarbon Pro, which is a collapsible carbon flag pole with a Tek-Tite 360 degree light on top, as well as a high visibility flag and reflective tape around the pole. It might seem a little pricey to some, but it would still be far less than any hospital bills incurred because a kayaker wasn't as visible as they could have been. It would certainly be a good investment for the kayaking folks that venture out across the lake. I'll be ordering one this week.

So if you see a lime green Emotion Glide on the water, you can either use the VISICarbon Pro as an aiming point, or to avoid me. Your choice. :D

Coming back on topic...
 

Here's an article from my seacoast NH paper last week. I've clipped some of the more pertinent info below.

The cause of death was ultimately identified as cardiac arrest but it's tough to tell if that was brought about by struggling to stay afloat/right the kayak - something that would have been made a lot easier had he been wearing a PFD.

This is exactly why I have ceased with the PFD under elastic cords on the kayak bow to an inflatable right where it belongs. I kayak alone.

I read some statics that state (1) 9 out of 10 drownings occur with the victim is not wearing a PFD per CDC, and (2) drowning is the second leading cause of death for kids under 14 in NH, per NHwatersafety, and the one that really grabbed my attention, (3) 90% of drownings die within 30 feet of safety, per NHwatersafety.

I used to feel that no matter what, I can always swim a bit to get to help or safety. I no longer think this way. Despite what you see on TV, the victim almost never cries for help or waves their arms in distress. Help could be a few feet away and not know you are drowning.

http://www.nhwatersafety.com/drowningprevention.htm

Safe boating!

Sometimes, while kayaking, I wear my Sterns belt pack manual inflatable. It is a type 111 with a 24 gram CO2 that provides over 30# of flotation...the same as any other vest.
Kind of funny....I do get a few looks because it is not visible from water level.
Oh...just a little hint if you like inflatables. Jump in and pull the pin to test it and then repack it yourself.....kinda like packing your own parachute. Easy to do and if needed, you know it's going to work.

Parafunalia in Gilford used to sell the swimmers belts, s-m-l-xl, in one buckle & two buckle models, in bright almost flourescent yellow for about twenty five dollars. Parafunalia no longer had any in stock a couple days ago but I was informed they have a shipment of swimmer's belts on order, and it is due to arrive soon.

The swimmers belts is perfect for paddling a kayak, as opposed to wearing a pfd which can get too warm to wear for the summer, plus the swimmer's belt is perfect for swimming, while the pfd is designed more to keep an unconscious person's head above the water, and not really designed for swimming.

Don't like that bright yellow color of the swimmer's belt? Krylon Fusion spray paint in flat gray, or flat camoflage khaki, or any number of other colors will stick very good permanently to the flexible vinyl and turn a bright yellow into a color that is low key. Maybe, match your kayak and swimmer's belt into a fashion statement by matching their colors when you spray paint the swimmer's belt with Krylon Fusion. Other spray paints simply do not stick to flexible vinyl as well as Krylon Fusion! About $4.50/spray can.

The two buckle swimmer's belt has more flotation than the one buckle models, and either one can be removed and reconnected while in the water that is over than one's height with much greater ease than a pfd.

This Morning's Warning of Wearing a Worn PFD...
 

1) The U. S. Coast Guard just called off a search near Wood Island, ME. The search began with the discovery of an orange "kayak-type" boat, which shortly followed the discovery of an inflated PFD! :eek2:
http://bangordailynews.com/2011/07/1...st-called-off/

A suggestion—> also place your contact information on every PFD—including inflatables.

2) For the the U. S. Coast Guard, the expense of ships and aircraft in a search is totally borne by the Federal Government: to cover that expense, the Federal Government just prints more money. :rolleye1:

3) Regarding any efficacy of "lost-kayak-searches" on Lake Winnipesaukee, I doubt the NHMP does any timely searches of this type.
:look:

:confused: Maybe that's what others aren't seeing! :eek2:

Lastly:

For those unfamiliar with "Solas" reflecting panels, here's a photo of one of eight "Solas patches" on my PFD.

(My PFD, which is definitely worn :o). :emb:

Even More Lastly...
 

Sorry to hear about that,......I know that area pretty well and it can be treacherous. Whatever kind of PFD you choose won't do you much good if you don't wear it.

Let me repeat an item from another thread - swimmers' belts do not satisfy the NH PFD laws. They are not USCG approved. They are fine as a supplementary device as described, but cannot be used alone. You still must have the appropriate USCG approved PFD aboard.

It's better to be wearing a swimmer's belt, which is perfectly capable of giving pretty good support in 3-foot waves, than to not wear anything because a standard pfd was too hot or inhibited paddling. A swimmer's belt obviously does not inhibit paddling like a pfd.

Correct me if I am wrong but anyone who is 16 or older is not legally required in New Hampshire to have a pfd on board a kayak without a motor which is what the vast majority of kayaks are; motorless and propelled by a kayak paddle. Legally, anyone 16 and up may have nothing, or a pfd, or a swimmers belts or both a pfd and a swimmers belt and their favorite rubber duckie just for good company! It is nutty to be out on the water without either a pfd or a swimmer's belt, but that's the law, as I understand it.

This was discussed in the thread entitled "kayak incident in yesterday's storm". FLL is incorrect. See my post in that thread.

Ok....looks like you are correct....much to my surprise....that non-motorized kayaks, canoes, rowboats and sailboats are required by NH statute to have one pfd on-board for each person, and persons 12 and under are required to wear them. Could not determine if a throwable flotation device is also required on-board non-motorized boats as well.

Still, there's a lot to be said for wearing a swimmers belt as opposed to not wearing a pfd when paddling a kayak or canoe.

Last August, I got stopped by an MP in a big defender mp boat at about 8:15-pm out by Buoy 3 for rowing my 17' row-canoe without any nav lights, and he just let me off with a warning after taking my name, so he let me off the hook with no fine to pay. At the time I was wearing a swimmer's belt, and I suspect that had I been not wearing that and not having a pfd on-board either, then he probably would have cited me for no lights-no pfd for a double fine, but instead I got to row off with just a warning.

A very wise and knowledgeable MP officer that there MP officer was there, that there night, you betcha, don't you know!:D:coolsm::D

Well FLL, is this an example of the need for boater education for non-power boaters, or is this an example of boater education not working?

I scored a 96 on the 50-question test at the end of the boater course given by MP Officer Dave Learned in Ashland back in 2000, so I just forgot what's what with the pfd law in a row-canoe or a kayak.

Pfd's will ride way up on a person, up around their head, because a pfd is not tight around the arms, while a swimmer's belt is much better for swimming around in the water.

What to do? Keep a pfd in the kayak to comply with the law, but wear a swimmer's belt to be safe and not obstruct arm movement when paddling or rowing.

Is a throwable floatation device like the square cushion with the two long handles required on board a kayak or canoe or sailboat as well as a pfd?

Swimmer's belts are good for swimming! Pfd's are almost good for nothing because they make the wearer very awkward once in the water! If everyone on board the H.M.S. Titantic, back in 1912, had been wearing a swimmer's belt as opposed to a pfd, they could have easily swarm all the way to Saint John, New Brunswick, and nobody would have drowned! 1500 people drowned thanks to those awkward pfd's, and today's modern style pfd's are still very awkward in the water today!

WMUR story
 

Channel 9 carried a story tonight about a capsized kayaker on the Connecticut who was saved by the Walpole chief of police. The kayaker was not wearing his pfd and the first thing the chief did was to retrieve the pfd for the guy and then pulled him to shore. Not wearing a pfd is not a smart thing to do when out by yourself. We've seen several kayakers go by in the last couple of days and none of them were wearing their pfds. We always wear our pfds when kayaking so I'd have to say its not a smart thing to do at any time.

You have GOT to be kidding. I don't even know where to start on this one.

It is a fact that PFDs are safer than swimmers belts, period. They do NOT obstruct arm movement when paddling. I know this because I was wearing my PFD just yesterday when out in my canoe. And yes they can be awkward to swim in, but that is not what they are designed for. They are designed to keep your head out of the water.

And as far as the Titanic goes, I think that PFD technology might have changed a bit in the last 100 years. I am thinking that the PFD I wore yesterday might be a bit safer than the "PFDs" that the people on the Titanic wore. Oh, and if they autopsied 1500 people when the Titanic sank, I would be willing to bet that most of the people died of hypothermia, not from drowning.
Of course we all know that a PFD will not prevent hypothemia, but it will keep you afloat.

And, it's also well known that wearing a swimmer's belt when out paddling a kayak, is better than removing the pfd and placing it within the kayak because it was uncomfortable or too warm to wear while paddling.

When someone gets tossed into the water while wearing a pfd, it will ride up around one's head, and it is not designed for swimming, while the buoyancy of a swimmers belts is centered so it encourages swimming, plus it can easily be moved from one's waist to armpits to adjust the buoyancy. Try doing that with a pfd?

With a swimmer's belt, a 'poor swimmer adult' can jump into the water and swim for 100-yards along the shore in water that's six to ten feet deep, or shallower, or whatever, and feel pretty secure about that. With a pfd, you just go nowhere and no one seems to don a pfd and jump into the water. A pfd is probably considered to be a flotation device and not a swimming tool.

www.parafunalia.com in Gilford, $24.95, s-m-l-xl, one buckle or two buckle and if you do not like the bright yellow color, then a spray can of Krylon Fusion in flat grey or camo khaki will easily change the color permanently. Suggest you get the one buckle model in the largest size!

Regarding the bold:
That is exactly what I am saying. The PFD is designed to keep one afloat. Period. When a kayaker hits the water, it is probably unintentional. A swimmers belt is not the right thing for a kayaker to be wearing. Period.

BTW, many stores are having end-of-season sales right now, and inexpensive PFDs can be bought for under $30.

Pay a little extra
 

When we bought our kayaks we shopped around until we found the pfds that fit best. Can't remember the name but the one's we went with (from EMS) have two buckles inside the zipper. So when its hot you can just use the two buckles and leave the zipper undone. Added about $40 to the cost of each pfd over the low end model but it was worth the money. Not wearing a pfd because it is hot is not an option for us.