CFL Light Bulbs
 

All;

In an effort to conserve energy, over the past couple years we replaced every incandescent bulb in our camp to a Compact Fluorescent or "CFL" bulb.

I was amazed at how many light bulbs we had inside and outside our camp as we changed out almost 50 light bulbs! Many fixtures in our kitchen and bathroom utilize three or more bulbs so it does not take long to add up.

Besides the 75% less energy these bulbs use, one of the other advantages really shined through during tropical storm Irene. When we were on generator power for four days, the low power consumption of these bulbs really made a difference and allowed me to power other electronics. I was able to keep my outdoor CFL spotlights and dock lights on during the night to watch the boats and ensure the lines did not break. Turning the switch on and off to these bulbs was even noticed by the generator.

While I am not sure if these bulbs will pay for themselves, they certainly do have their benefits. Besides knowing you are conserving energy for future generations, they also seem to last forever and are very durable.

They have come a long way with CFL lighting and I just wanted to let everyone know how I found them very beneficial during the recent storm.

Dan

I Don't Like The Mercury Implications
 

I have a lot of concern about breakage and cleanup.

cfl
 

Wait until you try them this winter.

I have been using them for a few winters now in my main home. I like them!! Yes they take about 30 or so seconds to warm up and achieve their full brightness but other than that they give off a better light and I have yet to replace one in a few years now.

Dan

cfl
 

how do they work in the workshed when it's zero degree's?

From the "Energy Star Fact Sheet"... "CFLs contain a very small amount of mercury sealed within the glass tubing – an average of 5 milligrams, which is roughly equivalent to an amount that would cover the tip of a ball-point pen. No mercury is released when the bulbs are intact or in use. By comparison, older thermometers contain about 500 milligrams of mercury. It would take 100 CFLs to equal that amount."

Obviously they should be recycled and handled carefully with gloves when broken.

Dan

Slightly dim at first then 30 seconds later fully bright.

SO: Let me try to understand this..With these new nifty CFL lightbulbs..you use LESS Power..Right...?? This is Good. So because you are using LESS Power with these new light bulbs in the lights you already have...you are actually able to TURN ON MORE light bulbs..NO..?? This is Good. More is better.

SO: You are using MORE light bulbs than before.....BUT..you are actually using the SAME Power you used Before you had the new bulbs. SO where is the savings to the environment...?? Just wondering,. :D NB

No, you should have read my original post more carefully... I said that when on generator power during the storm I was able to utilize more electronics because of the low power consumption of the bulbs. I was also able to keep my dock lights on to view my boats and ensure they were safe.

If you want savings here ya go... I have a 40,000 sq. ft. work facility where we changed all of the incandescent lighting last year to fluorescent. We have saved $200.00 per month on average on our electric bill thus far and PSNH paid for 50% of the change out cost!!

I'm not trying to make anybody a believer, just spreading what I thought was helpful information. Do with it what you wish...

Dan

Over the past two years we have changed over all our bulbs to CFL at home and here at camp. Today's CFL bulbs are a big improvement over a few years ago and use 1/4 the energy of incandescent for the same light output.

Of course if you want 90% of the electricity to generate heat, say to keep the chicken coop warm in the winter or to operate one of those old kids toy ovens, than incandescent is the way to go.

We switched over almost a year ago.
 

The lights are fine, and my electric bill is down. Like Dan, I haven't figured out the "pay back" for the more expensive bulbs, but if they last the way they advertise, it's a better deal all around.

I even went with the "dimable" ones for our pocket lights and in the kitchen. And the ice cream doesn't melt under the higher heat incandescent bulbs. Took a little getting use to, but they produce a very pleasant light with almost no heat output.

I'm sold... and like I said, the electric bill is down.

Sorry, couldn't resist the "Go Green" font color! :laugh:

CFL Alternative
 

CFLs do have their drawbacks. Their long life is affected by the number of on-off cycles. I have only one light that stays on for any length of time. The rest of the lights go on and off as I enter and leave rooms; which is frequent. I find that under those conditions the life of CFLs are reduced considerably.

I think, for the long term, LEDs will be the solution. While they are still an expensive alternative, they do have a much longer life (upwards of 100,000 hours), turn on instantly and are even more efficient than CFLs. The fact that they have made their way into our TVs indicates that the price is coming down and that there is good color control.

One thing I would not suggest, is outdoor CFL floodlights. In the winter they take forever to warm up and give of a respectable amount of light. Honestly I wish I had not made the switch to the CFL floodlights. They were expensive, and now I am stuck with them because I don't want to throw them out.

Some don't work well
 

As Belkin said some work well some do not. We have had terrible luck with 3 way lights and dimmable ones, also those that go on and off regularly don’t last long either.
They make special ones for outdoors. The regular in home ones are not made for cold weather applications.

I did just the opposite.....when I heard they were not producing more incanescent bulbs,I went right to Lowes and bought a big supply.
They are expensive,do not pay back in the long term and are ugly.
If you break one,cleanup is very risky because of the mercury vapor.
Last....I really don't think it's the governments role to tell us what kind of light bulbs to use in our own homes.

CFL are on the way out!
 

CFL's are being phased out by LED. A 10watt LED is evivelent to a 60 watt bulb and they have a use life of over 25 years and at that point are showing only a percentage drop in lumens, meaning the bulb still works.

I have a good customer that is a lead design chemist for the company that produced the testing instruments for this competition:

http://www.innovationnewsdaily.com/p...t-winner-2169/

Most hardware stores will not take the CFL's or any Flourecense for that matter anymore. The cost to recycle simply did not outweigh the potential profit on the new sale.

LED's have been available to market for a few years now, but was advised a year ago to wait till this competition showed some results as the current selection is not as efficient as what was coming.

I agree that EVENTUALLY LED's will be the way to go, just not now. I tried a few different types last year and the light emitted was absolutely awful. It was a bluish green light that we just could not get used to. They do last forever and cost pennies to run even compared to CFL's!! I look forward to the day when they are a viable alternative. Hopefully that day will be soon!

Dan

Same here. I tried a couple of LED's in the kitchen... terrible. If they get them fixed I'll switch away from the CFL's.

We've been using mostly cfl's for about 3 years now. Besides the fact that it takes a short time before they burn bright, you wont notice much difference between them and the old bulbs. We changed out every light that stayed on longest and/or was used the most first. As the rest of the incandescents burnt out we replaced them with cfls. It took about a year to switch all the bulbs over. I said I use mostly cfl's because in the winter I switch out the outdoors porch and deck cfl's for 60 w incandescents. I still use 4, 90 w halogen spot lights. Two are on a motion detecter and two switch controlled inside. When it's time to change them out I'll probably switch to LEDs. We try to only leave on the lights we need and turn off everything else. We live in a relatively dark house. You just have to trust that there's no monster lurking in the next room.

Dan, that is why I was told to wait as well. This series of bulb that was the winner of this competition will be the start we are looking for.

Due to the competition details the company that created the testing equipment was not permitted to sell any part of the LED designed to calibrate the equipment to any manufacturering company entered into the competition. They had a design that met the standards in order to test it out and she stated that it is the closest to what we are using than anything produced to date.

They are also working on the next generation of LED, that they will be creating similar testing equipment for, that is even more efficient and smaller than current LED's. These will be used in even greater things and have working test models of the clear tablets that you saw if you watched the movie Avatar that use this next generation LED Tech.

I was given the information to bypass the CFL's (due to the time to release of the next gen of LED), the LED lights will be very expensive (as lightbulbs go), but when she calculated the number of lights I have to output was able to approximate a $40.00 per month savings on my electric bill. That is without changing anything. That will pay for about 1 bulb per month. The initial investment is huge but will be paid for in a 3 year span if everything gets changed at once.

If I could get my full spectrum T-5s in the fish tank hood down to something that uses less energy than I would be able to save even more, but after the initial investment of $400 for the head now the replacement wouldn't be worth it, it's only a year old.

The problem with LEDs to-date has been their unappealing color spectrum, intertwined with the fact that the run very hot.

LEDs were traditionally known for their low-power and cool operation, but this was for use as very localized light sources, or as various kinds of indicator lights.

Compared to traditional bulbs, for a long time the LEDs output lumens to input watts ratio was pretty poor.

Latest generation LED bulbs going into production now have solved the color temp issues, but not the heat issues, so they are using various forms of liquid cooling gels to dissipate the heat within the bulb and into the room.

From what I've heard, in about 1 year we'll have a decent selection of affordable LEDs bulbs. I personally wouldn't buy any of the first-gen LED bulbs coming out shortly, as they are basically the first-pass at employing some of these new technologies to a rather difficult problem, and that usually doesn't work well, or happen cheaply. Let those issues bear out for a year and then look at LED bulbs.

I do not like the CFLs in general, but mostly because it's hard to find a good dimmable CFL. 90% of the lights in our house are on automation, so they have .5 second soft ON/OFF ramps and few CFLs (that I've tried) play well with that.

CFL problems
 

CFLs do some things well, but....there are some important problems with certain applications. They are a bad idea for any situation in which you need instant light, like a closet or cellar stairs.

Those stairs are a big deal. I've treated two patients with broken hips sustained falling down stairs - and in both circumstances the family was conceived that they fell from poor lightly when turning on a CFL light to go down the stairs. Something to think about...

http://www.ledlights.org/FAQ/Do-LED-Lights-Get-Hot.html

Not exactly an unbiased source, but it's a pretty unequivocal statement that LED lights do not "run very hot." What experience do you have with LED lights that run very hot? I can't see how they can be so energy efficient if so much heat is generated, as you claim.

LEDs run cooler than incandescent bulbs, but when you are trying to produce several hundred or 1000+ lumens, you have to drive the diodes with a pretty decent current. They will get warm to hotish, and this decreases the lifespan of the diode.

Look at some of the current LED bulbs on the market, and you will usually see some metal cooling fins or heat dissipation devices.

There is a tech startup called 'Switch' working on bringing a better LED bulb to market. Google 'switch led bulb cooling' or something like that and you should find some articles.

Is "warm to hotish" the same thing as "very hot"? I'm not trying to be difficult, but if you want to back up your claim, you might want to provide your own substantiation, as opposed to asking others to find it for you.

I'm not particularly concerned if you believe me or not. I was trying to provide helpful information based on my own knowledge. You posted a link to a site with very vague information, and even that site really only says that the LED bulbs run cooler than incandescent bulbs.

If you do any research on LED bulbs beyond the basics you will find the same things out.

Part of the problems encountered with bringing LED bulbs to market as a viable incandescent replacement has been related to getting sufficient light output for a palatable price, and doing so in a manner that didn't overheat the diodes and cause premature failure.

If you want to learn something, do some actual homework, I gave you some ideas to start a search with. If you simply want to argue with me, you are coming unprepared.

Your earlier statement that LED bulbs "run very hot" struck me as strange, given that they are supposedly so much more energy efficient than standard incandescent bulbs. I commented on this, and you then said that LED bulbs "will get warm to hotish." Does this change in language mean that you have also changed your position?

Support your own argument with verifiable facts, otherwise I'm leaving the BS flag lying on the field.

LED bulbs in current, and upcoming products, run the diode at a high temperature relative to where it would be optimally. This is a problem that is being solved with various approaches to cooling the diode/diode junction so that enough light output can be achieved to make the bulb useful without also dramatically shortening it's useful life.

Save your 'BS flag' for a topic that you have some knowledge to actually make a call on.

Again, if you did some research of your own instead of making stupid forum arguments you would understand what I was describing without needing more clarification. Most people enjoy researching things they have an interest in. You seem to want others to do your homework.

This is my last response to you on this topic, as you have not contributed anything of value whatsoever.

CFL Light Bulbs
 

I tried them in the kitchen and had very bad luck for a while. They kept blowing.Then I came across a place called Neptun. I bought 24W - Helix Dimmable which are designed for totally enclosed fixtures. They have been fine for over a year now. Except for startup time, they are great.

We had 60 Halogen bulbs in our motorhome that were replace by LED's. In the past LED's had a color temperature far different then sunlight. The LED's that were used in our motorhome very closely approximate the color temperature of sunlight. They are very pleasing.

The LED's run very very cool. You can't feel anyn temperature rise with the. Our's was also one of the first motorhomes in which you could dim the LED's. The LED's used in our motorhome are not your fathers LED's and are much better then CFL's or standard light bulbs.

“Relative” may be the important word here, as well as with your earlier statement that LED bulbs “run very hot.” Without quantifying what “run very hot” means (or your later description of “warm to hotish”), there is no basis for comparison. Perhaps when you wrote “run very hot” you meant in comparison to the normal operating temperature of a diode. As a lay person, I took it to mean in comparison to a traditional incandescent bulb, which in my opinion runs very hot; too hot to grab a 100 watt bulb without being burned after it’s been on for more than several seconds. Unfortunately, you’ve refused to clarify your statement or provide any kind of substantiation. I have no idea at what temperature a diode normally operates or how warm a diode in an LED bulb gets. You appear to be the expert and one would think that you would therefore have much easier access to the information than I, and yet you insist that I should be doing the research to prove your point for you.

I have some knowledge of basic physics. If an LED bulb puts out approximately the same amount of light and a lot of heat (“runs very hot”) at 20% of the energy required for an incandescent light, something doesn’t add up.

My “research” to refute your claim that LED bulbs “run very hot” (whatever that means) is below. I haven’t found anything that would lead me to believe that LED bulbs “run very hot,” especially as compared to incandescent bulbs and even CFLs. If you think that I’ve made “stupid” arguments, than I suggest that you counter them with your own arguments, based on supportable facts. And please, there’s no reason to get nasty. Doing so only makes it clearer to me that you’re unable to defend your statements and therefore you feel the need to make it personal. You’re entitled to your opinion that LED bulbs “run very hot,” but until you quantify this statement and support it with facts, that’s all it is, an opinion. It’s not my job to do your homework.

Ah, the taking-my-ball-and-going-home ending, usually included because the poster is unable to make a reply that supports his position and that is based in reality. I’ve already provided one link; below are four more that I think add some value.

I have an open mind, and I was and continue to be willing to consider verifiable facts (not opinion) that support your position. But since it’s your position, they also have to be facts that you present.



http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-20...ed-lightbulbs/

http://greenliving.about.com/od/scie..._choices_4.htm

http://www.gizmag.com/ge-40-watt-replacement-led/14765/

http://blog.nularis.com/2011/05/how-...ulbs-work.html

Great thread ...
 

... in the beginning, until it was turned into a p***ing match.

This is from the forum FAQ ,

If you don't agree with something expressed on the Forum respond with your opinion, don't get personal! Your comments and opinions are welcome, personal attacks, insults or flames are not.

Agree, and time to get back on track
 

Well said, Jonas Pilot.

We have had cfl bulbs for a few years, and have found that the multi-wattage (3 way) just haven't worked that well. Single wattage just take a little getting used to with the "warm up" aspects. We do have outside CFL's in a motion detector fixture on our garage. Again, a warm up feature, but it does throw enough light to see where you are going even early on. Just can't read the newspaper for a few minutes:D.

Care of bulbs is not any different than the regular flourescent bulbs we have in our house. We exercise extra care to ensure we do not break them.

When it's really cold, mid winter cold, do you get enough light from the garage cfl, before it warms up, to "get to the house"?

It's obvious from my first post in this thread that what I take issue with is your statement that LED bulbs "run very hot." You haven't explained or clarified what you mean by that, although in a later post you did modify your description to "warm to hotish."

Without quantifying the term "very hot" (more than 200' F? more than 300' F?) or comparing it to something else that operates at a relatively high temperature (like a standard incandescent bulb), your statement makes no sense.

It's my opinion that a standard incandescent bulb runs very hot. You can easily burn yourself if you touch one. To me, it sounds like you're saying that an LED bulb gets just as hot as an incandescent bulb. That's what I'm taking issue with, because that is false.

Your link to the article on Switch Lighting says nothing about how hot their LED bulb gets. It talks about their use of new liquid-cooling technology to cool the LEDs, but nothing about what kind of temperatures are present.

Hard to say
 

The garage faces the street, and when we come out of the garage, we turn to the right and cross the front of the garage. We will be picking up light from the garage door opener as the door closes, and if we take stuff out of the car and take a minute or so to do that, it probably does. Once we clear the front of the garage, the motion detector spot on the front of the house (not CFL) usually kicks on and we have a well lit path.

I would say that there is no doubt that the colder it is, the longer it takes to get to full brightness.

The "runs very hot" contest is getting very old. I understood what Bkr-Int meant when he said the present LEDs run very hot. This is an issue for the long term reliability and could possibly be a safety issue as these "bulbs" incorporate plastics in their design as opposed to an incandescent bulb that is made mainly from glass and metal. It's important to remember that even at 20 watts, that amount of power concentrated in a small area can produce high temperatures. Designers can work to keep those temperatures away from skin, but it can still be an issue as I mentioned above.


Personally I am livid about incandescent bulbs being forcibly removed from shelves at the end of this year. I don't like the light from CFLs and haven't seen an LED light I've liked yet. The federal government is granted a very specific range of powers in the constitution and deciding which type of light bulb we should buy is not one of them. Our freedoms are slowly being taken from us........

Thank you; that explanation makes sense.

You don't want to get into a debate about interpreting the Constitution, do you?;) (The Commerce Clause, the Necessary and Proper Clause, etc.)

Just kidding. This is neither the time nor the place.

You're right, this is neither the time nor the place...... but regulation of commerce between states should never have evolved into banning lightbulbs or anything else for that matter by the federal government. There are very clear remedies in the constitution for Federal government run amok, it is up to us, the citizens of this country, to see to it our elected officials respect us and those remedies. Due to apathy, indifference and acquiescence we have allowed DC to get away with too much and our economy and citizens are paying the price. Time to wake up.

All these bulbs are reviewed and assessed in this months Consumer Reports magazine.

Anybody out there have any experience with LED night lights?

Yes, that is a perfect application for LEDs.

We have a sensor model:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_141426-53058...ght&facetInfo=

The 3 LED light is fine but the motion sensor on this specific model is a little touchy, too many false turn-on events but that is not a fault of the LEDs.

Thanks Slick, Do you know how many watts they burn? I couldn't find it in that link. All the night lights I have, and it's a bunch, burn a 4 w. I have used 7 w and they threw a lot of light but burned out quickly. Using nite lites is an important safety tool.

The packaging is gone but the back of the device says 0.3W and it gives out a good amount of light.

Imo
 

LED night lights and book lights are great.

CFLs are great for inside applications without dimmers. Unfortunately, looking up at my kitchen ceiling, we have 10 flood lights in cans on dimmers!

LEDs will take over at some point. I have several clients that are looking at LED lighting. My take so far is that you need to get all of your lights switched to LED or the "color of light" differences will drive you nuts.

BRK, have you tested security cameras with LED lighting yet? I have not, but it is on my agenda!

Incandescent bulb extension
 

Read today that the Feds pushed the light bulb extintion (that they passed in 2007) back from 1/2012 to 1/2013. Don't know how much longer the big box stores will keep those classic bulbs will be around.....

Incandescent Light Bulbs
 

"Congressional negotiators struck a deal Thursday that overturns the new rules that were to have banned sales of traditional incandescent light bulbs beginning next year.

That agreement is tucked inside the massive 1,200-page spending bill that funds the government through the rest of this fiscal year, and which both houses of Congress will vote on Friday. Mr. Obama is expected to sign the bill, which heads off a looming government shutdown."

LINK

Today I read in newspaper that the ban is still in effect. Beginning with the ban on 100 watt bulbs.

I buy 40, 60 and 75 watt incandescent light bulbs. Mostly 60s. They pop often enough that I keep a good supply. Just bought a six pack of 60s the other day.

I have wondered if the recent incandescent bulbs (last 2-3 years or so) are of lesser quality than in the past. After all, the manufacturers know that they are on the chopping block and need to produce the NEW and Wonderful ....OH Wait: I lost my train of thought..what IS the latest GREEN BULB..? I think the CFB (w/mercury) bulbs are falling from favor...and maybe it's now LED...........

Whenever you figure you have it figured out...Voila ...NEW Rules. :D NB

Here's the latest stuff from Washington:

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-...se-in-on-jan-1

What about those small refrigerator light bulbs?

Unintended consquenses.

mths. ago, i changed every light bulb In the house to those bulbs that look like a corkscrew.

:D

I don't get it...
 

We seem to be able to make car headlights that look like blue super novas. Why can't we make an energy efficient bulb that mimics the same spectral output as a glowing tungsten filament at about 2900 degrees kelvin. Maybe they do, and I haven't got the memo.

how efficient are they??
 

When I had a bulb burn out a while back, I looked at the three (?) bulbs that would fit. I looked at the Standard, which lasted the longest but aren't the brightest, but were the least expensive. I then looked at the middle brightness, which were the middle expense and middle brightness. I then looked at the brightest, which were the most expensive and lasted the shortest period of time.
Thinking of the pain of installation, I opted for the cheapest, and will use the high beams more:).