Performance Boats
 

It was great to see all of the performance boats out in force this weekend. Mix that with the antiques running through the broads and it was like old times!

The sound or roaring engines and no blue lights was music to our ears on rattlesnake! I hope they stay around.

I also noticed many smaller boats out in our end of the lake. The boat owners probably thought it would be quiet, but it was heavy boat traffic. There were more bass boats also. I think everyone that had a boat went out for a great ride.

Looks like a bass boat tournament station at Ellacoya Beach. I notice a large number of bass boats this weekend. A great crowd that never to my knowledge cause problems.

Hard to miss all the GFBL boats
 

The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!

As much as the crowds can be irritating at times, it was great to have one last taste of summer. Now comes the wind down and then the long dark wait till spring.

JDeere,

Are you sure the Performance boats where the problem? All boats make noise at some level.... If you are in a busy area of the lake, there is going to be some noise.... People need to learn to live with it.

If you want a peaceful serene lake then you should look for some place where motor boats period are not allowed.

I live between the long Island bridge, and the six pack.... It is very busy, every weekend.... it also gets loud when several boats are in the area.... The so called GFBL boats, don't even have to be present, for it to be loud.

It lasts for about 2 or 3 hours, I figure my serenity can be interrupted for that long, and if it really irritates me, then I go inside and watch a movie. or read a book...

What I don't do is go and look for some group of boaters to blame the problem on.... This is a busy lake, it isn't always going to be peaceful and serene when people are out on a nice day having fun.

The lake was busy and choppy yesterday. The performance boats with 24 degree hulls excel in those conditions and were out. Regarding the noise, LI has a thread going on about testing. It seems the MP have been enforcing the law so those boats you heard were likely legal.

Li
 

It was your post that raised the issue. The GFBL's are loud and yes I can always see the offending boat and it is always the performance boat that can be heard over the regular boat noise AND as you know boats are getting less loud versus more.

I fully support MP and their efforts to make sure that the boats sound level falls within the law. Who wants to listen to that???

I am not denigrating the GFBL people although I might be denigrating their boats and their desire to make the ruckus on what is really a small lake.

Finally no I do not have to move to another section of the lake....the GFBL boats simply need to abide by the rules....some do and some do not. Pretty simple.

Loud boats been here since before you are born! I suppose you want to coral them to a reservation like we did to the American Indians! History repeats itself. My old man will never put anything on his HackerCraft just because someone moved hear and tell him NO!

Did you just compare the treatment of Native Americans to your boat's exhaust? Totally inappropriate.

I enjoy loud and fast boats going by at high speed. It's interesting and fun to watch, and it's also over pretty quickly. I hate loud boats idling at the dock while I'm trying to have a conversation though. If you have a loud boat at a public dock please shut it down as soon as it's tied up and leave ASAP after you fire it up. Trust me, nobody wants to listen it to it for more than a few seconds. Unless your boat is antique, if it's not fast, please don't make it loud. Loud and slow (<60 MPH) boats are as irritating as loud and slow (<80 MPH in first gear) motorcycles (but fortunately, not as common).

"desire to make the rukus"

"offending boat"

Remember, the boats that have been on this lake a lot longer than most of us have were sometimes not well muffled. I was here in the early 70's when the flat bottom Sangers with the big blocks with twin open exhaust pipes over the transom were quite common. 90 MPH with just an in or out transmission, no reverse, and a foot operated throttle. Yes things change and some approve and others complain.

Maybe those you you feel "desire to make a rukus" just enjoy the sound of their boat and taking a ride on the lake. When they go by my house or I see them out on the lake, I enjoy the sight and sound and have no complaints. I am glad that a fellow boater is having a good time.

Life is too short. I don't even care how fast they are going, as long as they are doing it safely.

This is New Hampshire! Live free or die. Fewer rules is a good thing.

The two loudest boats we heard all weekend were two beautiful antiques that were running through the broads on their way to the show. It's too bad that we all can't co exist. Loud performance boats have been on the lake for years, I guess it's too much to ask to be able to live and let live. Live free or die, but do so slowly and quietly!!

I enjoyed the sights and sounds this weekend, no matter how much negativity there is at the lake these days. Enjoy!!!

OMG!! People were actually out on the lake and ENJOYING themselves??

You live next to what is essentially a state park and you complain when people actually use it legally! Oh the Horror! People having fun usually make noise of some sort. Your expectation of peace and quiet does not trump the right of the public to enjoy the lake in any lawful manner.

In fact Merrill Faye is a huge anti-noise guy, as is his right. Yet his business routinely sells new boats with thru hull exhaust... go figure!

I have no problem with the noise laws or their enforcement. The MP do a pretty good job given their resources. I do however have problem with them randomly stopping anyone, just because they "think" the boat may be too loud. Ambient noise has a huge effect on how people perceive noise...


Woodsy

I looked at a boat a few years back and when I found it was through Fay's, I pulled out and went to a non hypocrite dealer. Go Figure ;-)

Great post btw!

"Articulable Suspicion"
 

NHMP officers can't simply "stop" a boat: they need a reason to temporarily stop and detain you. The legal term is "articulable suspicion".

Using the newly-legalized exhaust cut-outs inconsiderately—and in the wrong locations—irks hundreds of peaceable lakeside residents every weekend. Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.

Noise is only one of many reasons to detain an offender.

:cool:

.

.

Performance Boats / Noise
 

I posted about a week ago my thoughts on this. When my family still owned an old Chris Craft (almost identical to the boat filmed in On Golden Pond) the old flat head six with what I remember to be 4" copper exhaust through the transom was indeed loud. My only run in with the MP at that time was skiing inside the raft at Ames early in the morning. They just came and took the plate off the boat for a week! No issues with noise then.....1969, 1970? Look how far we have come.

This is great, hundreds of peaceful lakeside residents? I love the facts and detail, can you send us the link to the facts? And the few minutes of exhaust notes could keep someone in the broads blowing a whistle from being saved?

So lets talk fact, there was a stranded boat in Wolfboro bay Saturday afternoon, over 30 nice and quiet boats drove by and didn't stop or offer help in anyway. I was riding on a louder (legal ;-) ) boat and we saw them waving (yes, we saw them waving over the exhaust note), stopped and then towed them to the docks and helped them load it. While towing them, we were almost hit, had many boats come closer than 150 ft and cause enormous wake, all of these boats were quiet.

They were happy to have a louder boat lend a hand, and didn't care one bit that we were, in your words, a scofflaw.

Personally, I don't really like loud boats BUT they have every right to be on the lake as others and forum members have every right to articulate their opinion. I've been on the lake for over 40 years and I can't really say there has been any appreciable change in traffic or noise. Back in the 70's, large "cabin cruisers" were all the rage and frankly the numbers of large loud boats has decreased over the past few years. Jet skis are clearly dominant now and I suppose there are people who want to bitch and moan about them too. As long as boat operators are legally operating and reasonably courteous, I DON'T CARE!

Just some facts here:

out door wilderness level 30-40 db
Human talking 70 db
Human yelling 88 db
Boat decibel limit at idle 88 db
Referee whistle decibel > 100 db
foghorn >130 db

These levels are all level at source type measurements. So apparently if boat exhaust is to loud, people best not being yelling around the lake either.....

Read up and understand why the levels that where chosen where chosen. They aren't random numbers. I wrote a big long post on this a couple of years ago...

The real issue here, is how sound travels over water.... on quiet nights I hear conversations from across the lake...

There should be absolutely no problem hearing a cry for help, or a distress whistle, over the noise of boat traffic even on the busiest of days, as long as you are in the vicinity of the problem.

If someone yells for help in Center Harbor, of course you not going to hear it in Meredith...

Render Inaudible?
 

Wow! I never thought about noise "rendering inaudible calls for help"

My neighbors kids like to play in the water and they are quite loud. I wonder if I should tell them that they can't play any more, or suggest they get muzzles? I mean, I would hate to have them render inaudible a call for help.

My other neighbor has a dog that barks. I wonder if I should suggest that they get rid of the dog in case someone is calling for help when their dog barks, rendering it inaudible?

Last week the guy next door mowed his lawn. I wonder if I should tell him to get a hand push mower so that the noise of his lawnmower motor does not "render inaudible a call for help"?

Don't know who's boat ..........

But it is sure pretty (to me) to watch these type boats run ....... and envy them for having the money to do so !


Not so much the wanna be's like Baja's ( I pick that brand arbitrarily)




Also to the "noise" whiners .... ever notice that the smaller boats ... Baja, et al (<28') make more "noise" than the true "cigarette" class boats which have more of a powerful rumble than simply exhaust noise ?


(bring the bashing on -- I'm ready not to respond)

Believe that boat burned a few years back.

I don't have a dog in this fight... I'm not back there YET. But I do enjoy reading along. I'm not a huge fan of noise, but it is what it is. And though, in my youth, I had more "boating" events in my life, I am not currently a boat owner. But I have seen a similar trend to another life experience that bugs me personally. Motorcycles. Know, I have NO problem with someone owning, riding, enjoying the fruits of their labors in the form of personal property. The thing that "annoys" me is when they sit and rev. I noticed that was a "thing" for some of the posters here, inasmuch as some "loud" boaters sit at idle at the docks. Same with drivers who feel they must share their car radio with the rest of us. A boat, screaming along at high speed, showing its technological prowess, is awe inspiring. Watching someone cruise away down the road on a big bike speaks to freedom. Ride on... But when you stop, remember the rest of us, just might not enjoy your joy as much as you do.... I believe I would second the poster who asked that they kill the engine as soon as practical after docking. Like I said, no way as informed as the rest of you on the boat side of things. But at some point, while enjoying our personal freedoms, I think it is reasonable to think of others and their enjoyment. (guess I should skip bike week...:D) Thanks for letting me play along.

Engine noise is just one of those things that people won't agree on. For some nothing is loud enough and for some nothing is quiet enough. We passed laws to resolve these conflicts and enforce a compromise. If you think the limits are wrong, talk to your local representative. NH has a huge legislature, you should be able to bend your reps ear.

If you have a limit some one has to enforce it, you can't blame the MP for enforcing the law.

Of course now someone invented the crime of overpowering a whistle, what's next?

Point to Ponder.
 

Somehow Lake Winnipesaukee has more rules and regulations than any other lake that I can think of, yet we have more 'uncivilized' skippers than any other body of water that I have been on. Is there a correlation or is it a coincidence?

You are exactly right. Good post!! Jet skiis can be very annoying when they go round and round and round and round in the same spot.

Moved to boating issues???? Read my original post, no issues, it was the forum members that took it to issues.

lesser of two evils....
 

It could have been locked up...lesser of two evils. You are correct: the original subject was just an observation. Some later posts took it in a whole different direction. :(

This really is just like being at the lake now, a few people ruin it for many. This is like being pulled over by MP for no good reason!

Silly
 

Honestly, what difference does it make if the topic is put here or a couple lines up in the boating section...like people aren't going to read it??

This whole "General Issues / Controversial" section is really quite silly and does nothing to stop people from saying what they will. I wouldn't doubt if more people read whats here than whats posted in the "politically correct" section...

Dan

My Apologies...
 

Sorry, new here. I thought it was ok to follow a line of discussion. I wasn't aware of the etiquette in regards to the original post. Again, my apologies for my part in the discussion.

Marty

Contentious...
 

Anytime the topic of performance Boats comes up here on Winni.com, the outcome is very contentious and usually results in the thread being moved.

IMHO, Ever since the speed limit was proposed, the lake has been a VERY divided place. Some people like APS & JDeere let their extreme dislike of performance boats color their posts. If you want a good read, check out some of the speed limit arguments on this forum... some of the videos & pictures APS posted and his spin on them are hilarious. There were an incredible amount of lies told about performance boats. There still are. They had an agenda, the speed limit got passed. It is what it is.

But not much has changed... thankfully!

Woodsy

While I agree, its perception, anything performance is an issue? There are many people at the lake that enjoy these boats and its only an issue to the vocal few.
We were at Naswa Saturday and there was a 38 topgun there and people onshore and boating up, all stopped and stared at it, I do not think there was one person there that walked past without looking and commenting on how nice it was. So where is the issue?

So my issue with this being move to "issues" is that it wasn't an issue, it was a positive note that a few cranky people made an issue of.

Censorship to control perception.

I agree. Nothing seems to stay on track on this forum. You try and say something nice ( and neutral) and before you know it there is someone lurking and waiting to jump in, turn the subject to the negative and high jack it to promote their own agenda.

I think conversations stray on most forums. That doesn't really bother me. What bothers me is when people criticize (or worse) others.

Totally agree --- seems it is getting much more prevalent (Hijacked threads) than in the past :(


and by virtue of this post-- I just did too.

Performance Boats / Noise
 

Just to add a bit of irony maybe the straying threads need OMERTA.

Your Italian is showing :laugh:

How are you being censored?

By placing a simple boating comment into an issues thread, this was not an issue I had. This was made into an issue by others. There is a perception that anything performance is an issue, this change helps with that perception.

Noise: A Red Flag to Peaceable Boaters...
 

The vocal few can't dismiss the three tragedies that plague this boating "issue".

:(

.

The performance boats did not cause these tragedies, the drunk operators did.

It was the booze not the boats that caused the problems....And the ones that you were referring to were not high speed accidents.

Nice spin though :rolleye2:

Why let the facts get in the way of a good argument!

This discussion about GFBL boats goes down the same path all the time. For the most part it seems to have the same players involved.

No one is posting anything different then what has already been said in many other threads.

Time to move on and enjoy what the Lake has to offer for all of us.

It was a simple post that started to go down hill with the non performance crowd. Enjoying the lake was the theme of my post, I enjoy seeing it, it was a welcomed change for me, I posted it.

Some people like loud noise????
 

So, this whole thread boils down to:

Some people like loud noise while others do not.

Some people feel it totally correct to malign any individual who disagrees.

Some folks like to quote "live free or die" when they feel their "rights" are in any way infringed yet the person disagreeing has no right to enjoy the lake on their terms and if they do not like it then they should move! Yikes!!!

As I have said I do not like the noise but I have never said the culprits should be banned. If the law says they are too loud then I fully support MP enforcing the law. If some of you do not like the law then work to get it changed but I am not sure what your logic would be....louder is better?

Really?

Its funny how you aim this statement at the people liking performance boats when you were the 1st negative post in this thread with "The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!"

For me, my post was about how good I thought it was, and again for me it was about getting away from it all in a way I enjoy. You sir were the one who added the start of the negativity or did you forget that?

Well, to me, it seems like you want to censor JDeere. This is a forum where people are allowed to express their opinions, whether it matches yours or not.

So, did you hear the song from that new Disney movie "Frozen".... it's called "Let it go" :)

I love the sound of boats. The engines, the way hulls sound slapping the waves, and the occasional scream of joy. Maybe it's just me but those sounds seem almost as natural as the Loon calls.

Second that and add my love for the sound of a tuned exhaust.
The roar of a 427 Shelby Cobra,that pleasing crackle of an Aston Martin,even the rumble of a Harley as long as it's not a straight pipe blast.
No matter what I'm doing,I'll always take a peek when a nice performance boat passes my house.
Love the sound of pipes.

Some people can't "hear the song" because the engine roar is too loud. :D

And others can't hear the song because their heads are either stuck in the sand or other places where the sun don't shine. :laugh:

When We COULD "Get Away From it All"...
 

Drunks favor 3½-Ton boats to keep them alive and un-bloodied?

Maybe so:

Weighed together, the dead victims' demolished boats didn't weigh anywhere-close to 3½-Tons.

I (We) "Let it go" when oversized ocean racers got their well-deserved legal knockdown; however, the ocean-racers just returned to Concord to modify an existing law that ultimately legalized their exhaust "cut-out" option to bring to Winnipesaukee their excessive exhaust noise.

I certainly can understand why the NHMP are finding "articulable suspicion" regarding these exhausts.

:look:

Maine's Sebago Lake allows very loud exhaust noises—although ocean-racers can be heard from over 8 miles away. Even the 300-foot height and granite mass of Rattlesnake Island can't block the noise from SW side to NE side. (Also true at Johnson's Cove).

Lake Winnipesaukee has a very different geological history than my family's former Sebago Lake island property—which enhanced its allure to my Grandparents. Thanks to my Grandparents' decision to move to Melvin Village, my Dad and I have spent nearly all of our boating lives on Lake Winnipesaukee. (Mostly on Winter Harbor—which BTW—is not a busy thruway).

Note just received from Winter Harbor:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...psc1571c84.jpg

When I'm on the telephone, I always make it a point to let the caller know how exhaust noise interferes with Lake Winnipesaukee's birding and "quiet-time" pleasures; that is, if the caller can hear me. (!)

With the offender's exhaust in the background, it's especially gratifying when NHMP dispatchers ask me to repeat my phoned-in complaint about speedboat exhaust noise.


.

Are you OK? This is one of the most confusing posts I have read on this forum.

My friend, his wife and 2 passengers are very lucky they were in their 7000 pound Doral when they got hit on their port side on the lake this summer by a bad boater in a smaller vessel.

Too funny
 

Some of the replies really are too funny. The thread starts with how wonderful all the boats were and I opined that is was a bit too loud and frenetic for me. Next thing people start to take personal swipes at me...or at least my screen name. One person starts to talk about the Indians and how what happened to them somehow correlates to his right to live free or die. How sophomoric.

Seems many of you get your panties all in twist if someone sees the world differently than you. That is a sad way to live. You have a right to your opinion and I mine...btw...your opinion's did not carry much credence since we now have new laws to deal with speed and noise.

Lastly "live free or die" was never meant to mean do whatever you want.

The phrase comes from a toast written by General John Stark, New Hampshire's most famous soldier of the American Revolutionary War, on July 31, 1809. Poor health forced Stark to decline an invitation to an anniversary reunion of the Battle of Bennington. Instead, he sent his toast by letter:

Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.
Stark may not have been the original author of the phrase. Vivre Libre ou Mourir ("Live free or die") was a popular motto of the French Revolution, which the politician Antoine Barnave had engraved on his buttons.[2]

What does this post even mean
 

Who wants to coral....eh.... Maybe you mean corral the boats?

Your old man never put anything on his hackercraft. Just because someone moved hear and tell him NO!

What the heck does that mean. :eek:

lol.. So I'm guessing we haven't seen the movie... :rolleye2:

The thread that just won't die !




.

For some reason I visualize you looking like this after the NHMP tell you that your complaint will be looked into and they don't do anything:

Like dogs with a bone....

While keeping under one post per day...
 

So, change the channel...

I can relate to that—even after years at an occupation that has taken away most of my colleagues' sense of hearing.

While I prefer to post information regarding the forum's "winni-wildlife", "lost and found", history, weather, "getting here", and cottage-maintenance forums, what specifically confused you?

:confused:


1) The phrase, "Getting away from it all"?

2) The combined weights of the victims' boats?

3) The State of Maine's exhaust noise regulation?

4) That exhaust noise can be heard on the opposite side of Rattlesnake Island?

5) That exhaust noise on The Broads can be heard in Johnson's Cove?

6) That my family has a long history at Winnipesaukee?

7) That exhaust noise interferes with the simplest of the Lake's enjoyments?

8) That ocean-racers lost "The Big One" in Concord?

9) That ocean-racers can today make more exhaust noise?

10) That using a telephone at the dock becomes impossible due exhaust noise?

11) That NHMP dispatchers get "drowned-out" by exhaust noise?

12) The legal term, "Articulable Suspicion"?

I'll try to use shorter words when possible.

;)


I've made sure that the NHMP has no choice in the matter: I only call when two conditions are met.

1) I see the infraction.

2) I see an NHMP officer is already present.

It's worked out well so far; previously, the NHMP appeared between 20 and 30 minutes later. (Most often, too late for the necessary "articulable suspicion"—or even to halt an underage operator—who sadly died within my view.)

To their credit, NHMP dispatchers have always followed-through.

:coolsm:

.

I think #1 and #10 are a bit contradictory.

I still don't understand how if a boat passed once it can be tested again and not pass. They didn't change the decibel level. Unless someone fooled around with their boat, why would it change?

You answered your own question. Performance boats/cars/motorcycles are rarely not tinkered with to try and extract more performance from them. One of the easiest ways to extract more performance from an engine is to relieve back pressure in the exhaust system. You can do that in three ways, a really big muffler that keeps the noise down, but takes up a lot of space, looks ugly and costs a lot of money, a smaller muffler that trades higher flow for less noise reduction, or a straight through pipe that offers the best flow for the least amount of money and the least noise reduction. Swapping a muffler for a straight pipe can be a 10 minute job, so passing a test once can mean nothing an hour later...

The easiest solution is to keep the boat/car/motorcycle quiet enough to not attract attention. For some, the attention is the sole reason for the loud exhaust.

I had the test done 6 years ago, so things may have changed. There are a number of reasons., aside from mechanical changes.

1 - Equipment, calibration and the MP operator - I had to do 3 passes at WOT. The MP averaged those 3 passes to come up with a final DB number. So there is variability. Each pass was between 2 - 5 DB different.

2 - Proximity to MP boat - For the 3 WOT passes, I was asked to be 25 off of the MP boats transom (scared the &^%& out of me at 70 mph, and a bit dangerous I thought). A few feet either way can mean a difference difference between pass / fail.

3 - Weather - My first test was postponed due to fog. The MP told me that humidity, wind, etc can effect the result.

You know, I moved to south FL 6 years ago. Amazing that this debate is still going strong. Here, no 150 foot rule, most places, no speed limits. Boats of every size, shape and type. Everyone seems to get along (sometimes tolerate) and enjoy boating. There are boneheads of course but's that's another topic :) There are a lot of things I miss about living in NH, but this isn't one of them.

I think we did the test about 6 years ago too, maybe longer. It took us 4 or 5 times before we finally passed and it that was just barely a pass. So
I am a little paranoid now that we might get stopped but don't really want to ask for trouble by asking to be tested. WE haven't changed anything mechanically though.

It took me 2 times, and I think my average just barley squeaked under. My fist pass was at 78 and each one got a little bit higher :eek: We were all stock (HP500s).

I was in the boat with the MP. He was stern but the last time he thanked me for being nice. I asked him if people actually weren't nice to him despite the fact that none of us are happy to be there. He said you wouldn't believe how bad people are. I might not be happy but I was still taught to respect authority. I was sure glad it was finally over after a whole summer of marinas trying to get the boat right, a lot of money, and all those tests. I think we finally passed in Oct. when they did the last test of the year out there.

Funny thing, I had an older MP in my boat when we did the final round of tests (at Timber). It was a little hairy as we had to go WOT by the MP boat that was about 10' offshore, then take a hard turn to port to clear the point and rocks.

When we were done, the officer thanked me, smiled and said "now I know why you guys like these boats" :D

I hear you on losing time, I got stopped on a Saturday, and the test was scheduled for the following weekend. That was postponed due to fog. Next week failed and 3rd week passed. Lost almost a full month of boating.

My boat was stock, as delivered by the dealer in Winni. We had a cracked baffle (due to age). Fortunately, that was it.

We had no idea when we bought ours that it was loud. I just loved the look of the boat and had to have it. We never even tried it out. And the problem was they didn't really know how to fix it. They tried this and then that and then this and then that until it finally passed. I think they were trying to quiet it enough with a major deal. But it didn't work.

The standard used for the exhaust noise test is ISO 14509.:rolleye2: I cant believe that NHMP WOULD PUT a person in danger like that of a mister meaner.the test requires the boat to pass by the sound meter at a distance of 25 meters (82 feet). The boat must be traveling at least 70 kilometers per hour (43.5 mph) or maximum speed. To pass the test the average of the two highest results must not exceed 78 dB(A).

As a point of reference - the sound of water lapping the shore is 75-80 dBA.

Well, despite all the education that was done about the switchable exhaust it appears that some people still don't seem to understand, that the exhaust noise test would be done with the the exhaust going through the hull.... not through the hub. If the Boat passes the noise test, the when the "silent choice" is on it is only going to be quieter.

IN SHORT THIS LAW REVERSAL HAS DONE NOTHING THAT MAKES THE LAKE NOISIER

This law making switchable exhaust illegal had been done with out the proper knowledge originally. Everyone I talked with, once the details where explained, understood, that this could only improve noise level etc. especially around public docks etc.

It funny that all I have is an 18' bow rider, not an oversized ocean racer, yet I still realized that the switchable exhaust law was just plain wrong.

Not at all, I am pointing out that that post was what sent my positive post down a path that moved this to the Issues category giving it a negative tone.

It is a major deal. About a decade ago I receive a quote of about $4,000 to replace the DARPA silencers on my '88 with the newer nonswitchable exhaust. It involves replacing the whole through the hull unit including the headers. For now, it is quiet at WOT as tested a decade ago. Now I am worried about the testing at idle. There is not enough water flowing through the mufflers to quiet the sound.

Oh come on ApS.You love the sound of noisy aircraft.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ghlight=planes
I believe it is the "usual" Saturday Sukhoi acrobatic monoplane that does loops and spirals above Rattlesnake Island nearly every weekend. Yes, you do have to look up--and it helps to hear it first!

It could be a Yak--they're similar planes, even at 100 feet altitude. Both are equipped with the radial (round) engine that won WWII.

It is the Antonov's radial engine that makes the difference.

Like the sound that a Harley-Davidson makes from its own antique design lineage, a radial engine makes a very distinctive sound: If it's flying over Winnipesaukee, you can detect it.

The radial engine sound has even produced a cottage industry in CD recordings. (You can listen on-line!)
http://www.spitcrazy.com/sounds_of_aviation.htm
http://rareaviation.com/raenfrso.html

One recording company has even added music to the sound:
http://sounddogs.com/results.asp? (Vocals!)

I don't know of any similar recordings of any other engine.

Too, it is the sound of our WWII American "Warbird" legacy. These designs produced engines of 3600+HP from a single engine. Here's the radial engine principle.

Like some boats on Winnipesaukee, Harley-Davidson motorcyclists try to project a kind of "Warbird" image. (Paint jobs, graphics, decals, leather jackets and "character"). It's just ridiculous that our Warbird legacy of WWII could be matched or experienced through paint jobs and appearances: think "poseur". All the other engine sounds that strike my ear at Winnipesaukee are projected through noisy Detroit-Iron exhaust pipes, housed in expensive fiberglass jukeboxes.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ghlight=planes
of us lakeside will be treated to the sound of these Warbirds overhead that's been described as "felt", rather than "heard".

These engines are of a "radial" (round) design, and have a distinctive exhaust note. Instead of the "rap" of the related Harley-Davidson motorcycle engine, listen for the "chuh-chuh-chuh" of those big radials.

So the bottom line is if its a noise others like its not ok but if its noise you like its all good.

That sir was the best well researched post I have seen in awhile. The detail is impressive, no matter what side of the debate you are on. Well done!

The "Reduction" Can Be Made Logical, But...
 

While the change was initially presented as a logical solution—that exhaust noise would become "less-loud"—it hasn't worked out. Noise testing is now done at dockside. It was the first step in fooling the Legislature. A widely circulated photo of the Governor about to sign the new noise bill shows the Governor's face as grim. What'd he suspect?

Legalizing the "Captain's Choice" exhaust-cutout allows noisy boats to operate in either quiet or loud mode. For reasons that should be obvious, loud boats still plague Winnipesaukee's bays, harbors, inlets and coves.

Cutouts are widely banned in automobiles, but because noise travels greater distances over water, too many noisy boats have been tolerated on Lake Winnipesaukee for too long.

Lakers have "earned the right" to make the most noise, but they've got even louder competition.

If you've viewed the video of the race (that "wasn't a race") taken over the 2013 Labor Day Weekend, you should be scratching your head. At ½-mile away, the loud rapping exhaust noise of 15 "Performance" boats was recorded with the camera's microphone, which measures only 1.5 millimeters across.

Sorry, I don't.

Every bright summer afternoon, I am drawn upwards to a white Waco biplane (radial engine) that flies over Wolfeboro's little airport, then directly over my Dad's house. The Sukhoi (radial engine) that does weekend acrobatics over Rattlesnake Island can be heard doing Immelmann turns. No Rattlesnake Islander has made mention of that "noise"—and they're missing a show!

It's the sound of the aircraft radial engines that won WWII that I like—they're not "in your face", like a bunch of Harleys blasting up a road with straight pipes.

For now, let's just call loud exhausts "inconsiderate".

:look:

Wrong again APS.... as usual!
 

Lakers have no more right to be loud any other boat unless the boat built was built PRIOR to 1968 and they have been issued a PERMIT. You really need to brush up on the laws BEFORE you state your OPINION as FACT...

NH Boat Noise RSA:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...270/270-37.htm

Switchable Exhaust RSA:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...270/270-25.htm

Read RSA270:25 very carefully especially as it pertains to 270:25-II Note the wording....

II. A boat may be equipped with a switchable device that will reduce the exhaust noise level in compliance with the limits established by RSA 270:37.

By legal definition the switchable exhaust can make a boat already in compliance with RSA 270:37 quieter. It cannot allow a boat to exceed RSA 270:37.

Get your facts straight.... oh wait... facts don't matter to you.

Woodsy

"Ding"...


another Round begins !

:confused:


.

Lake Amphibian
 

I guess I will buzz around APS house and do some short take off and landing out front just to get his goat. Those Lycoming engines with variable pitch pusher props can be quite loud. Oh and I am quite legal by the way!

BroadHopper threatens to harrass
 

So, that is your answer. Someone does not like your noise so you will cruise around the persons house. What a jerk.

Pot calling the kettle black
 

Man, if that's not a personal attack, I don't know what is. :(

Give me a break
 

What else but jerk would you call a person who threatens to harass a forum member BECAUSE their opinion is that they do not like the noise from the performance boats.

You are free to opine as am I...but when someone crosses the line and talks about harassment then we are no longer in the world of opinions are we?

Lordy, Lordy, please send this mess back to the dungeon!

You are most certainly entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else. However, calling someone a "jerk' just because you don't like their post or their position on something is uncalled for in my opinion. If I were allowed to refer to everyone on here that have opinions, positions and agendas that I don't agree with, then the Forum would be loaded with them. However, that's not the case. Agreeing to disagree (respectfully) seems far more pleasant than unnecessary personal attacks and name calling.

On Hiatus to Grumman Thread Tomorrow...
 

"Harassment comes with the territory".

Agreed...Lake amphibians are the loudest single-engine aircraft over Lake Winnipesaukee, but only because stock Republic Seabees have nearly disappeared. :laugh:

What FACT was that? Sure, one can be made legal by shuffling new conditions into the RSAs.

Thanks for the reminder for Lakers; now, how can I tell that the Laker going by has a "PERMIT"? How could it be any louder than ocean-racers? A Cobalt shouldn't be making the same volume of noise as a Laker with a "PERMIT". Compare these two short videos:

http://vid70.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2de4d346.mp4

http://vid70.photobucket.com/albums/...psba384928.mp4

Thank you for the references to the changes to the previous RSA. I see there's a yearly "creep" as to what newer engines may be allowed to create more noise:

Are all the noisy boats in my Labor Day video now in compliance with the newest RSA?

I didn't think so. :rolleye1:

It appears the RSA was deliberately "crafted" to make noisy interruptions legal—beginning with the change from the former (and dangerous) 100+ MPH run-by tests.

Who would fault NHMP for copying New Jersey's recent dockside noise-testing standards? 'No point in risking an officer being run over at the very high speeds that accompanies the vast majority of "performance" boats.

This opinion still stands:

Ummm....
 

APS...

Your last post illustrates my issue with you and others like you. You post your OPINION but state it as FACT. You have a right to your opinion, and I do respect that. However, I will call you out when you state your opinion as FACT...

Its not my fault you cannot comprehend/understand the noise laws... they are VERY specific and VERY enforceable! This is so simple a 5th grader could understand it!

The noise (Db) limits set in RSA 270:35 have not changed in OVER 20 YEARS! So regardless of your opinion, there has been no "yearly creep" or increase in the allowed exhaust noise. Boats manufactured after December 31, 1990 are subject to a STRICTER noise standard than those manufactured prior.

The noise limits for NH are NOT arbitrary numbers. They were derived from noise standards & statutes from both the Federal Gov't, other states & marine manufacturers (NMMA) and the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators (NASBLA). NASBLA are the ones behind the Safe Boater certification standards. To wit, the NH boating noise laws follow the NASBLA noise recommendations from 1989 to the letter! Hard to believe we have had the same noise laws for over 20 years.... the HORROR!

The switchable (Captains Call) exhaust allowed under RSA 270:25-II does not allow for anyone to exceed the noise limits set forth in RSA 270:35. In simpler terms, a boat cannot be in violation of RSA 270:35 regardless of the switchable exhaust. Sorry you are having a hard time understanding this VERY SIMPLE law.

But why let facts get in the way of your anti-performance boats BS??

As to the rest of your post...

You (or I) personally have no way of knowing if an old Laker has a permit allowing an exception to RSA 270:35 short of getting the bow numbers and asking the NHMP. I seriously doubt they have ever issued more than a handful of permits. I would think they tend to be nostalgic and look the other way when it comes to the old boats. (as most people tend to do)

Unfortunately for you, your videos.... they prove nothing. Other than some boats were out enjoying the lake and they annoyed you enough for you to video them. Given your propensity to sensationalize a subject, who is to say those videos are not edited to increase the sound level in order to prove your point?

Are you a qualified sound engineer? What was the ambient noise level (db) prior to those boats running by? What was the actual noise level (db) of the boats? Exactly how far away were you? What was their bearing relative to you? Where is the DB meter showing the readings in your video? When was it last calibrated? Etc etc...

The bottom line is... It is your OPINION that those boats in your videos were too loud. It is not however a FACT.

Woodsy

Oh boy.:eek::eek:

Take it Off Line
 

Good God! Can't this be taken off-line thru PMs rather than subject us all to the finger-pointing, name calling, ridiculing, and down-right nasty tone this has spun down to? Please?

I viewed the video's there is no comparison to make.... The conditions are not the same....

I will give up on trying to reason with you, as both Woodsy and I have tried to explain the reality here...... the lake is no nosier, with the switchable exhaust now legal.

I think that it is crazy that you spend so much time trying to prove your case. I am sorry that you vision of the lake, is not in tune with others. I have tried many times over the years to put Facts out before this forum on maters of noise levels. But the message seems to get lost....

Bottom line in a stationary test dockside the MP will evaluate exhaust noise, on the loudest setting.... if the boat passes, then the switched exhaust setting will only be quieter.... like wise in a at speed test, the boat is monitored to ensure the exhaust switch is appropriately set. Not to mention that muffling the sound will cause damage to the engine at full speed. Once again the limit is the based on the loudest exhaust method. switchable exhaust only makes the lake quieter....

The only thing I will agree with you on, is how are you to know when and if a boat is legal.... If you want to waste the MP time, and call in everytime you think a boat is over the limit that is your choice, and I am sure if possible they will check it out.... But Personally I would rather the MP spend their time looking for serious safety violations... and educating boaters.... not administering noise tests.

I live on a very busy portion of the lake, with boats racing from the LI bridge to the six pack all summer long..... yep once in a while it gets noise, but never in over 25 years, have I not been able to hold a normal conversation and have issue hearing people. Even when the neighbor 4 houses down starts his boat...with it thundering exhaust.

For all of those folks that don't like the arguments here, I offer the disclaimer placed directly below the "LAKE ISSUES" title:

This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into arguments may be moved here.

Not only that, but this is a public (well, semi public) forum. To anybody that feels they don't want to be subjected to all the finger pointing, comments, innuendoes etc, let me just suggest that you don't click on the link and read the threads and posts in this section. Problem solved.

I'll Step Away
 

Never saw that disclaimer before since I usually go to the 'New Posts' section to check out the postings.

I'll leave you all to your cat fight. Enjoy!

Ok, Interested New Guy...
 

Because I'm new and because I'm not a current boater (or even resident till later this year) I'm trying to learn from all of you about all the issues of the lakes and the region. And if there is more to be constructively said, I'm all for reading it. And though it seems to take dives into personal jabs, it does bounce back to interesting facts.I do have one question though. Is ground (or water for that matter) being made in the debate? I will admit that I get lost occasionally, but that could be my newbie ignorance. I have a feeling that there are some more factoids to be learned. Would it be possible to get a recap of where we are at? I mean if the discussion is making progress?

MGWillia, this forum had a very heated debate a few years back when a controversial speed limit was being pushed for Winni and ultimately passed. As Pineedles posted, the Webmaster had to make a special section because of all the members that were sick of the back and forth. It was his way to appeaze both participants and non participants. This thread has a little bit of that left over.FWIW

New Guy
 

As reported in the Weirs Times Flatlander article, and I can't remember the exact words, but basically there are folks that feels there are tooo many boats on the lake. They figured they can 'outlaw' boats. They are effective as the state published every year in the past decade that boat registration on Lake Winnipesaukee has declined. You can also attribute the decline on the current recession. If that's the case why has tourism increased in neighboring states? The Governor has this no brainer idea that the phrase 'Live Free and (fill in the blank)' will be an effective strategy for branding the state. Obviously its not working and is subjected to ridicule.

There are others that would like to turn Lake Winni into the quiet atmosphere of Squam Lake. Due to the commercialism of the big lake, I don't think that will ever happen.

There are talks among 'the chosen few' to claim the lake as a giant reservoir and limit the size of boats and the horsepower. I have not seen this in the legislative halls, but claiming the lake as a reservoir is possible as the surrounding towns get their municipal water from the lake.

What I am seeing is 'When boats are outlawed, only outlaws will have boats!' This forum is a great example of this with all the 'boneheads stories' you read in the past few years. I boat on this lake since the 50's. In the past few years I avoid the weekends between and including Memorial and Labor Day. It is too crazy out there!

There! I open the floodgates!

Save some for me!!
 

Well, keep things safe till I get there. I may not be boating now, but I sure would love to when I get there! Hold the Fort!