Lakeport Landing business
 

From an article in today's Laconia Citizen, it sounds like the City of Laconia will be taking possession of the one-acre lot, and the Lakeport Landing's primary showroom/repair/office building in November, 2015 which has been home to www.lakeportlanding.com for the last 29-years for the very low price of zero dollars as per their 30-year lease agreement.

Considering all the real jobs and people involved, it is a super-duper catastrophe that an agreement which continues the business cannot be worked out.....seems like a major disaster for the business, owners, and employees...if they .... the City of Laconia and the business ...... cannot re-do the lease agreement to keep a very viable business going strong???? Twenty-nine years of selling boats, running a successful marina biz.....and employing many people ....and it sounds like they are not getting the treatment they deserve from the City of Laconia.

The boy who cried wolf.
 

Hey FLL

Someone needs to say it so it might as well be me. Don't you think your words might carry more weight if ANY of your other 4426 posts were sincere????? You may or may not have a valid point in this case but I don't think most on this forum that have read and put up with your nonsense over the years put a lot of faith in what you have to say.

"Don't ya know"

My opinion only, everyone else's mileage may vary.

Charlie T

Some more info about the lease expiration:

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/index...keport-landing

It would be nice to see this handled "peacefully" and practically. Give Lakeport Landing a fair shot at outright acquiring the property instead of getting into some kind of a bidding war with Irwin/etc. However, given the way Laconia seems to handle most of its business, I doubt this process will end resembling anything at all dignified.

You are correct, the current council act like a bunch of bumbling idiots. With the David Gammon case, the Hathaway House, building a new high school, building the new athletic field, etc. etc. they are crying for money. Good thing Straight Arrow Party in the 80's put a cap on annual spending. This cap even make the county be careful with spending.

So with the cap, they consider the strip mall as income, and the one lot as money to burn!

The council has already been told to be careful with the Lakeport Landing fiasco. Losing the business will be disastrous to the city's coffin. Problem is the council don't care about the future, just what they can do now. Let the future worry about the future.

Your comment is un-called for and down right nasty!

Not to get off topic, but I disagree. 99% of what FLL posts is non-constructive gibberish. I have him blocked for exactly that reason, I got tired of reading his 'contributions'.

Do you think that what FLL said in this thread is "gibberish"?

If you do, please point out what part that you don't like.

IMO FLL contributes more to this forum then 99% of you regulars.

I agree with FLL on this one. Laconia is notorious for throwing roadblocks up to business. Too bad because there was a group wanting to restore the Hathaway house until it was realized that the bureaucratic red tape would not allow for a workable budget.
Lakeport Landing is long established business that has contributed much to the lakes region......shameful that the city is not willing to help them.

To a degree, yes. He's previously used a fair amount of hyperbole in his posts, and he posts without citing any sources, references, or other information. Given some of his previous posts I'd say someone would have to be a bit "generous" to take any of his posts at face value. So, in a way, his post is indeed gibberish since you can't really trust any of the information provided in it.

If you take the time to read some of the other news articles circulating on this issue, it sounds as if what to do with the property is still in question/in the process of being decided by the city. They may take possession of the property, yes, but they are also in process of seeking public input on the matter.

It's a semi-serious matter as far as the overall business is concerned and the tax base and such for the city. If he wanted to foster a genuine discussion on the matter, his post was a less than ideal way to go about doing that.

I disagree
 

I disagree Rusty. There was nothing "nasty" about my post. FLL has admitted his main reason for being here is to stir the pot. My post was to point out to him that "The boy who cried wolf too much wasn't believed when the wolf actually appeared". If you always act as the court jester don't expect to be taken seriously on that rare occasion that you don't act like a fool.

I stand by my post. It was not meant to be nasty or offensive, it was simply a truthful statement.

So what!! Why do you care what FLL posts, the Admin is the one who will make a decision as to when it gets to be too much.

Don't read his posts if you dislike them so much.

I enjoy his comments and think it would be a shame if he ever decided to stop posting or the Admin took action against him.

I agree.....
 

others have blocked him, so you do it if you don't like his posts....personally, I think he is funny, witty and one of the very reasons that I come here everyday!!

Why waste time with bashing FLL, he can't help himself. Thanksgiving is coming, we all have that special relative.

Back to the topic. In my opinion, assuming the city does not need the lot for city purposes, it should sell or lease to the highest bidder. Anything else would smell of corruption.

90 More Days Until it Comes Up Again
 

Laconia Daily Sun

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/index...keport-landing

So lets think about this some. What has Lakeport Landing gotten out of this deal....

1. Free use of public property
2. extra room to help them run their business.

What has the City of Laconia gotten from this:

1. A successful business with in the Town.

What would seem reasonable at this point?

1. For Lakeport Landing be given the chance to buy the lot at market value
2. For Lakeport Landing to get the first right of refusal
3. For Lakeport Landing to create a new lease for the land with the Town, that incorporates a market value rent for the Town.

At the end of the day the Town will do what it wants.....I suggest that those of you that Live in Laconia, and have an opinion on this to get involved and give your opinion to the City Council....

I also think that Ms. Blizzard needs to be careful and more truthful about what she says. Loosing the use of the property will have a negative effect on the business, however I don't believe it will be detrimental to the business. I do believe it will have an effect on the operating costs of the business but certainly nothing that will impair the ability of the business to be profitable.

Why should Lakeport Landing get a concession like the use of the land for free? For the first 30 years the rent was the cost of putting up a building, and developing it, while cultivating their business... I am actually ok with that. Now the building is up, the land developed to their needs..... So now it is time to pay the piper and buy the land from the Town.

As Irwin would undoubtedly want to buy the lot, the Town seems to be doing what the should be doing and acting in their own best interest. I am sure Lakeport Landing, is acting in their best interest as well....Unfortunately it has to play out in a way that will make everyone comfortable... Because the town can't simply put a new lease into place or directly sell the lot to Lakeport.... There is red tape involved.....

My Hope is the following:

The town puts the lot and building up for Sale, with Lakeport Landing having the first right of refusal. Why you may ask, because it allows their to be no argument between the two parties on the value of the land. Then as the sale price also includes the building, Lakeport should get credit towards the purchase price for sum of money they invested into the building that they previously put up.

Unfortunately I don't live or own property in Laconia, so I have no ability to influence the outcome of this issue. But As I stated earlier those of you that are residents should speak to the Town council, and help influence the outcome.

Don't really see a problem here. Lakeport "leased" the property for the last 30 years at $0 dollars.
So what if they did do improvements to the area.
The City charter, according to this last article, demands the city to put it out for bid to ALL interested parties.
Sounds more to me like someone got a sweetheart deal 30 years ago.
Wish I could get that kind of lease to run my business. I could use 30 years of making a profit with no lease.

So what??
 

I didn't see where Lakeport Landing leased the property for $0... but who cares if they did? I doubt there $0 dollar lease only because it would smack of the very favoritism that Irwin Marine sued the city over when the city originally sold the contested property to Lakeport Landing. I think a $0 lease would have been cause for another lawsuit. Though back then I suppose anything was possible.

Anyway, Lakeport Landing has 30 years of paying the taxes on the property, 30 years of maintaining and improving the property and they have 30 years of being a good business in the city. They employ a lot of people and this will negatively affect them one way or another.

As a Laconia resident I would like to see what is best for the City, and Lakeport Landing within the constraints of the law... I do not need to see my tax dollars being spent defending a silly lawsuit brought by Irwin Marine or Lakeport Landing.

That being said, I think the only real course of action is to declare the property surplus, then sell the property.. Unfortunately for Lakeport, I don't think there is an easy way out other than buying the property. I don't think the City can legally give Lakeport the first right of refusal. But if they can, they should. If not, then let the bidding process begin and be open and transparent.

Woodsy

That is exactly what the city did with the D. Gammon case. Dave contested the $538 that was owed to him in challenging a case the city lost. Instead the city balked and the city lost again spending 10 times that in Superior Court. This is one of many. When it comes to the Lakeport Landing case, well history will repeats itself. No wonder the lawyers in town are living well. And on our dime!

As for FLL
 

I did have serious contention during the SL debate. But it is to the proponent advantage when he was making accusations that was false.

I do admire his wits and every forum has a 'character'. Normally I ignore his remarks and others can either take it at face value or do your homework and the truth will speak.

Well Woodsy, the good news is we agree....

The question is can they legally give first right of refusal.... I don't know why they couldn't, but I also don't know if the could.

The other possibility is that it be Auction off to have the same effect... Once again if it is allowable within the governing laws....

And that is what this is really about, what legally can be done...... I am sure the Town could release the land to Lakeport as well... But what does that do... it just puts the same situation in play again sometime in the future.

Aren't many of the buildings at the Weirs and some other locations on leased land? What happens when those leases expire?

It is a tricky situation....
 

The way most laws governing the disposal of public property are written, I think the city has a fiduciary and legal duty to the citizens of Laconia to sell the property for fair market value.

I don't think the public property disposal laws allow for the City to be able to legally "gift" the property to a "For Profit" business.

The City can show any favoritism towards Lakeport Landing, and I think the right of first refusal might be considered favoritism by Irwin Marine and result in another lawsuit. But I have not seen the lease agreement either.

How the City goes about the sale of the property will mostly be semantics. In the end a sale will occur, and the property will belong to someone other than the City of Laconia. I personally would like to see Lakeport Landing retain the property. IMHO I think it would be extremely detrimental to their business to lose that location.

Woodsy

Woodsy

Railroad right of way
 

I believe the land between the railroad track and the lake are considered leased land. Gov Hassan, in order to raise revenue, passed a law back in 2007 that anyone using that land must pay lease to the state. Not sure if it is really happening, but I do know they are looking into a development of land between the lake and track off Paugus Bay. The state is determining whether the developer/association must pay a lease fee.

Can you imagine what would become of LB/SD, Channel and Thurston Marine? How about Irwin Gardens? Hassan open Pandora's box!

Hassan wasn't Governor in 2007.

Happy...

The State of NH has been leasing the waterfront (mostly on property that the railroad originally owned) to property owners for decades... It used to be be for pretty short $$. During the last building boom, developers were taking advantage. As a result, the State looked at getting more $$$ for those leases.

For example... Southdown is a property with LOTS of leased waterfront. They could be very negatively affected if the State decided not to renew their lease.


Woodsy

You are correct Woodsy
 

http://laconiadailysun.com/index.php...orefront-lease

After reading this article, the state was leasing the land, however the state is reviewing all properties as there are those who have not been paying a lease. As the last paragraph states, its all about revenue.

lakeport landing
 

Is anyone sure taxes were paid by LL. If I lease property from someone, they generally are responsible for taxes. Since a municipal entity does not incur taxes, moot dollars abound.

No idea, but it wouldn't be at all surprising if they didn't pay *property* taxes. They would have likely paid other taxes to the city though.

What other taxes are there? No sales or income taxes in NH.

R2B

You're right, I was thinking of the state taxes that businesses pay. Not sure what other taxes, if any, would have gone to the city of Laconia.

State business profits and enterprise taxes. But those are not Laconia taxes of course.

"The way most laws governing the disposal of public property are written, I think the city has a fiduciary and legal duty to the citizens of Laconia to sell the property for fair market value."


Woodsy, I can't say it better than that

I don't really follow the part about LL getting a credit for the building.
From the Laconia Sun: The lease expires on November 1, 2015 and the tenant has no right to extend it further. At the termination of the lease all buildings and improvements on the lot become the property of the city.
To me that would seem that the improvements made (the building) were instead of rent and should belong to the city or the city should gain from the improvements. I wouldn't think that LL would get a credit if they or anyone else buys it.

They built no mansion over there. 29 years later, any storage building turned showroom/ office has had a good life!

Not good news for Lakeport Landing
 

Lakeport Landing has had a rough go of it over the last few years. They lost their Formula franchise and now they might lose their high visibility show room too. Those are a couple of tough hurdles to over come.

The Breeze
Wave 'cuz i'll be wavin' back

I don't disagree... My reasoning is the following LL could have made no improvements to the land, and just used it as a storage yard.... Why make them pay for the building twice, that is all....LL new what they where doing and involved in... so they caused this situation all on their own.... from that regard I have now sympathy for them.... I expect the city to be fair, but do what is best for them city, and allowable in the confines of the laws that govern them..

While I don't disagree that these hurdles are tough on a business, I think that they put themselves in this position.....Certainly Erica's high profile legal troubles didn't help either... Why a successful Marina was aligned only with one boat MFG, is mind boggling... They should have had a better portfolio of products... but that was their choice.... The chose to build upon land they didn't own, and which had a lease with a definite end point, and conditions. Once again the marina entered into this by choice...Therefore they caused this situation...

Now that isn't to say that I think the city should simply screw the company... I think they need to understand what is allowable within the laws that govern the town and try to come to a mutually beneficial solution, that would help LL keep using the land, and building....

Time will tell...

Does anybody know how much they paid to Laconia to lease this land? Some posts make it sound like they used the property for 30 years for nothing. This whole situation is not a "first". I'd be surprised if there are not procedures in place to deal with this situation that is fair to all parties.

I agree.....actions have consequences. I wonder if Irwin's has been approached by the city of Laconia? They being the closest abutter.

The Breeze
wave 'cuz I'll be wavin' back

It could be that the City of Laconia is seeing a big big purchase price if they sell off the very hi-visibility Lakeport Landing marina home building to the next door neighbor, Irwin Marine, plus to sub-divide the one acre lot and keep one half-acre for the city for either a small park, or a parking lot, or for the Lakeport fire station, or some city use. U-know......split the property in half......keep half the land for the city....and sell the marina building on a half-acre for some big big bucks to Irwin. After thirty years, that chain link fence topped with three lines of barbed wire, that seperates Irwins and Lakeport will be a-coming down?

With three locations; in Hudson, Alton, and Laconia, and being New England's one and only five-star Sea Ray dealer..... Irwin ... www.irwinmarine.com ...definately has the big money to pay the big-bucks, and seems like an automatic, made-to-order BUYER ....with no broker needed!

As for creating more local Laconia jobs with the addition of the Lakeport Landing property over to Irwin Marine......it ain't necessarily so. About two or three months ago, an article in the LaDaSun mentioned that Irwin's had cut their number of employees from about 78 down to 49 ......something to do with having fewer than 50 employees.....and health insurance.....and the Affordable Health Care Act of 2010....and...oh well.....November 1, 2015 is about 49-weeks from now.....which is when this 30-year lease agreement expires.....so who knows what will happen?......maybe Carnac the Magnificent could foresee how this scenario will unwind? ......yes, I see a lot of money.....mucho mucho mucho mega green-stuff.....some very big money for the city here?

Irwin's could be using the Lakeport Landing building for selling and servicing jetskis and snowmobiles; items that have been sold from Alton but not from Laconia, and finance the building purchase with a low-interest, 30-year loan, or something? That seems like a good, strong Irwin use for that huge two-story marina designed, service building with its huge visibility from Union Ave; jetskis and snowmobiles; sales and service ..... certainly MUCHO more major MOJO for their retail biz than kayaks, and Sunfish sailboats!

The City has the land and building assessed for something like $375,000, so if Irwin pays double that at $750,000 for half the land, a one-half acre, and the very nice marina service building; over a 30-year loan, that works out to $750,000 divided by 30 years = $25,000/year plus the interest. Now, is it worth $25,000/year+interest to Irwin to have ownership of the hi-visibility two-story marina building for selling and servicing jetskis and snowmobiles which are two items not currently sold from Irwin's-Laconia? Only Irwin's know's what Irwin's wants to do ..... but it seems like a good business move to me for them to purchase the building.... IF they can beat out Lakeport Landing's price offer....

If Carnac the Magnificent was still on tv ... he'd be riding a new snowmobile... that he bought at Irwin's on Union Ave .... come the winter of 2016!!! ..... go....Carnac.....go.....definately magnificent!

.....say-hey....how's about the City using that new money to build on city land somewhere a $750,000, Laconia community tennis center with six courts inside an inflatable structure ... www.arizonstructures.com ; all air-conditioned and heated.....that's what Laconia really wants ..... plus maybe the City could name it the Stephanie Beaudoin memorial tennis courts as a way to remember her! Unlike football, basketball, and baseball; tennis is a sport that one can play till you are 99!

Fll
 

Surprised at the criticism of FLL. I've always found him very entertaining. Hang in there, pal!

.... City Council defers decision
 

"Alternative for Lakeport Landing? City Council defers decision"

Today's November 27 Laconia Daily Sun has a nuts and bolts report on the latest "what's happening" at Lakeport Landing. Some interesting stuff!

The Laconia City Council voted unanimously to wait at least 90-days before making any decisions on how to proceed with the Lakeport Landing property.

You'll see a familiar name in this article
 

Laconia Daily Sun

its only worth what people are willing to pay for it
$480k is a ridiculous amount for that strip of property especially the amount of work anyone other than Lakeport or Irwin would have to do with it

I cant believe I am asking (cause I Know the answer) what is wrong with these people:(

Reading between the lines
 

The city appraised value of 480K is for the land and building. After the sale, the buyer is to relinquish a third of the lot to the city. The city did not specify that piece if the property. Also the buyer would need to provide an easement to the city regarding the retaining wall along Union Ave. Having all that, the 330 and some change is a fair value for the property.

Obviously to Brenda Baer, its all about the revenue. She doesn't care about the what will become of the future. I hope to God someone replace that woman. During her tenure she has done more harm than good in the city.

Is this the person that had an 'event' that eventually led to the creating of a speed limit on the lake? Or am I mistaken? I'm not a local.

Don't know that it "Led to the Speed Limit" being placed into affect ..... but yes, she had a horrific boating accident

.

They should . . .
 

sell it to The State of NH. The state pays top dollar for real estate. But, that's another thread.

There are two interested buyers who opened the bidding at $331,400 and $335,000. Based upon this and the fact that the seller is a city (read stupid government entity and God knows Laconia has proven this time and time again) I'm fairly certain that the fair value of the property is closer to the appraised value. Obviously, the bidders started the process low hoping to attain the property at a discount. The city should move to install a parking lot and I'm sure the offers will substantially increase.

Exposure
 

It is all about the exposure for sales but it comes with the benefit of additional space to operate your business. It just has to make financial sense.

The building and land are situated so that everyone that drives by sees their boats on display. I always look in when I go by to see the boats that are there. That is "free" advertising for them.

Since the markup on boats from wholesale to retail is about 30% the sale of one $300,000 boat, even at a negotiated price, will generate $50,000 to $90,000 for the seller. That income will more than offset the purchase price.

Now if that lot and the exposure helps to initiate the sale of 2 or 3 or more boats per year even a purchase price of $1,000,000 could make financial sense to the buyer.

don't disagree here, but in the end it comes down to what someone is willing to pay

Agreed with that.

This is also, IMO, a very interesting case. The property has a relatively high prospective value to Lakeport Landing and Irwin's. However, given the fact that it's pretty much boxed in, it would be a poor location for many other businesses. It has no direct water access, so it's diminished value for any other kind of boat brokerage. Parking would appear to be a significant issue if it were to become independently owned.

This appears to be another in a long chain of poor decisions from the Laconia city planners.

Laconia Daily Sun

so then who else but Lakeport or Irwin would buy it if they have the wait 2 years to do anything with it

value just went even lower in my opinion

either release it to Lakeport, open a leasing war or sell it to them or Irwin on fair market value -what someone is willing to pay for it

Some little birdy like a honking, canada goose needs to quietly whisper a message to Irwin Marine; the property in discussion here would make a super-duper venue building for Irwin's personal watercraft, aka jetskis, and snowmobile business. While pwc's and snow-mo's are sold at the Alton and Hudson Irwin's, they are not sold at the Laconia Irwin's. Business at the Laconia Irwin pretty much slows down for the winter, so's having a big-visibility, snowmobile business at the Union Ave corner lot would give Irwin's a big boost up to an all-year-around business that could compete big-time with the nearby H K Motorsports.

So's, how much is that worth to Irwin's when it could re-pay this new property acquisition with a thirty year, commercial mortgage?

I do not want to see Lakeport Landing lose out on purchasing the property. I do think its vital for their business. They pay a ton of property taxes on their other properties. If they went under that would truly be a loss for Laconia & the Lake Winni community.

That being said, as a Laconia taxpayer, I think the city should get as close as possible to fair market value for the property purchase. I am not sure the assessed value is accurate. The city should have an appraisal done by an independent firm. Give Lakeport Landing the right of first refusal. If they decline... then let the games begin!

Woodsy

This parcel is in a very high traffic area and would enhance both Lakeport and Irwin. The City has a duty to the taxpayers of Laconia to get the highest price possible for the property and ensure that its use will be in the best benefit of the City. The City should put the property up for a sealed bid with a minimum reserve and also have the bidders submit formal proposals as to what there plans for development of the property will be.

not a bad idea at all

but it still all comes down to what someone is willing to pay for it, maybe that might perk up the offers a little

anything is worth anything you want it to be, but when you are selling it, it is only worth what another person will pay for it

Lakeport does pay taxes on several properties that they own in Laconia BUT Irwin also pays taxes on several properties that they own as well.

Why should a 2-year notice be given at the end of a 10-year lease? The city and certaintly the tenant knew the expiration date of the lease 10-years ago. Shouldn't the tenant have been planning for the expiration date? If I rent an apartment do I wait untill the lease expires before I start thinking about where I will live in the future? I don't think so. I can see offering it to the exisiting tenant exclusively if they are willing to pay fair market (appraised) value. Otherwise, put the proerty up for auction and get the highest price. Then invest the proceeds in the dump down the street called Weirs Beach.

Woodsy: The article says that the city did commission an appraisal from an outside appraisal firm earlier in the month and the value was determined to be $480,000.....................Show me the money if you want to stay!

Weekender...

Yes Irwins pays taxes... but where will the $$$ come from if Lakeport goes under?

Secondcurve....

You are a bit out of line calling the Weirs a dump! I did miss in the article where the property had already been appraised. If tis appraised at $480 then the city needs to get as close as they can to that. It still boils down to what someone is willing to pay. Lots of properties appraise higher than the selling price for a variety of reasons. (Although $150K off is a bit much). The city needs to deal with Lakeport and Irwin's in good faith. It needs to be an open process. The city cannot show favoritism either way...

Woodsy

Woodsy, It is highly unlikely that Lakeport would go out due to losing their current showroom and display area. If for some reason they did go out, I am sure that any of the successful marinas and boat storage facilities would be interested in in their properties as there is only limited areas for docking and storage on the lake.

it will be a tough battle for the marina
 

Brenda Baer is known to be anti-boater. Supports the speed limits and turned down a proposal for a public dock in the Lakeport area that was proposed and OK by the 1953 city council.

She usually do not answer my calls and emails so I would not see an 'honest solution to the problem.

IN reality . . .
 

if either parties need to go the bank, the bank will decide on its value based on income (capitalization rate). I'm certain both parties have accountants who have done the math and know how much cash they have on hand for such a transaction. If current tenant gets those two extra years, they have the advantage . . . and I could go on.

Secondcurve....

You are a bit out of line calling the Weirs a dump!

Woodsy[/QUOTE]

Sorry. Perhaps a bit harsh but it is frustrating to see the city leaders unable to stop the downward spiral of the area. I remember what it was and it has been a long painful slide.

I don't think the city council care less what the bank believe the value of the property is or how much capital a business can raise. Whatever the appraised value is, someone has the cash, even if its the syndicate and they will take the money. Good example is state surplus land such as Laconia State School, the politicians want millions for land that has been appraised for far less. Meanwhile the buildings are rotting away. :(

Sorry. Perhaps a bit harsh but it is frustrating to see the city leaders unable to stop the downward spiral of the area. I remember what it was and it has been a long painful slide.[/QUOTE]

That's not calling it a DUMP! :) I live in the Weirs, I love it there. And to be truthful there are really cool bright spots right now....

They have cleaned up the old saloon lot... prob paving it today

Christmas Island is not only reopening, but they are spending tons of money on upgrades...

Nothin Fancy opened a bar & Grille with a deck on Weirs Blvd

Faro seems to be knocking it out of the park businesswise...

All wee need to do is get some re-investment $$$ on Lakeside ave....


Woodsy

That's not calling it a DUMP! :) I live in the Weirs, I love it there. And to be truthful there are really cool bright spots right now....

They have cleaned up the old saloon lot... prob paving it today

Christmas Island is not only reopening, but they are spending tons of money on upgrades...

Nothin Fancy opened a bar & Grille with a deck on Weirs Blvd

Faro seems to be knocking it out of the park businesswise...

All wee need to do is get some re-investment $$$ on Lakeside ave....


Woodsy[/QUOTE]

And the business owners along Weirs Blvd. spoke up and squashed proposed zoning that would have prevented any new business in the area. Hopefully this trend continues. Langley Cove will have 290 new homes very soon.
Progress.

I know its part of the lease agreement but its seems weird to have to pay again for a building you built.

Lakeport Landing
 

A "horrific accident" is an understatement. One person was killed and another severely injured in the incident- the press reported that the driver was DWI and got off very lightly in the criminal justice system. But that's a story for another day.

Land Lease Customs
 

It is very common (based on 40+ years of real estate law practice) for a land lease to provide that anything built on the land during the term of the lease becomes the property of the land owner when the lease term expires. Otherwise, the tenant might be required to remove, at the tenant's expense (which could be substantial), anything that was built on the land and restore the land to its condition at the beginning of the lease.

It all depends on what the lease payments have been for the past 30 years. This information is notably absent. My guess is the payments have been below market. Thus, the marina may still be ahead even if they have to tear down the building in the end.

Fully understand . . .
 

just basing my comment on reality. If rent only makes a commercial piece of property a certain value they could be sitting on it for a while, I assume.

From my experience with the town of Laconia and what I've read over the past 10 years, it's all about the quick buck even if you have been a business owner for decades.

The State of NH purchased the marina behind marine patrol for $1.1 maybe that guy can go buy that land and re-establish his business with his windfall. The church in Laconia sold for $280k (or something close) far less than "town appraised" value.

I totally understand the lease agreement and have no issue.With my commercial property some tenants do many costly imrovement worth 10's to even $100,000 dollars worth.Those stay with my building.It would be odd to have them pay for that again if they purchased that space but thats how it works.

Irwin wins the prize....
 

From today's Citizen.....

LACONIA — After more than eight months of attempting to reach a consensus about what to do with the Lakeport Landing Marina property at 21 Elm. St., the Laconia City Council has agreed to sell the site to Irwin Marine.

Coming out of a nonpublic session in which councilors discussed offers received for the .81 acre parcel and 9,000-square-foot showroom at the site, Mayor Edward Engler said that bids were received and unsealed Monday evening.

The first bid was $331,400 from Lakeport Landing Marina owner Erica Blizzard and she asked the city to defer taking any action on the matter until July so a second appraisal of the property could be conducted.

The second bid was by Irwin Marine and was for $528,000.

In May, the Capital Appraisal Company of Concord valued the property and existing building at $480,000.

The city originally bought the strip of land from the Boston Maine Railroad in 1958 and then sold the property to Lakeport Landing Marina in the mid-1980s. But that purchase agreement was nullified by the New Hampshire Supreme Court after a series of lawsuits filed by Irwin Marine claiming fair and open bidding on the property had not been followed.

Following the Supreme Court's guidance and approval under the terms of settling the lawsuits, the city signed a 10-year lease with the business, which was renewed for 10 years in 1995 and again for 10 years in 2005.

However, under the terms of lease approved by the New Hampshire Supreme Court, the original lease could not be extended beyond the 30-year point and Lakeport Landing Marina's current lease expires Nov. 1.

Councilors voted unanimously in February to declare the property as surplus, opening the door to a potential sale.

Mayor Edward Engler said both bids contained provisions agreeing to allow the city an easement for inspection and repair of a retaining wall adjacent to the property along Union Avenue, granting the city access to public parking space close to Elm Street, to retain the existing building on the site so the city would not lose taxable value and if the property was sold to any party other than Lakeport Landing Marina, the business would not have to relocate for two years.

Ward 3 Councilor Henry Lipman made a motion to accept the offer to sell the property to Irwin Marine and instruct City Manager Scott Myers to finalize the agreement.

By a vote of 4-2, the council voted to sell the site and building to Irwin Marine.

Councilors Ava Doyle, David Bownes, Robert Hamel and Lipman voted for the motion, with Councilor Brenda Baer and Armand Bolduc voting against it.

Prior to the meeting, Rod Dyer, former Laconia mayor and the attorney representing Erica Blizzard, shared a letter he sent last week to the city manager and city councilors about why the city should sell the site to Blizzard.

In the letter, he said that through the years since Lakeport Landing Marina has been on the property, it has rendered to Laconia rental payments, tax payments and improvements of more than $560,000.

"That investment in the premises is now on the verge of being lost as the city considers whether 'fairness' requires wiping the slate clean and viewing both interested parties as identical, event though one has invested literally hundreds of thousands of dollars into the property and the other has invested nothing," Dyer wrote in his letter.

Baer said she was dejected by the outcome of the situation.

"I've been beaten many times, but tonight I am truly disappointed," she said.

Bolduc said he agreed with Baer.

"I still say I'm disappointed, but we'll have to live with it," he said

She should have ponied up... Can't feel bad about this. Irwin stepped up big time over her number.

I agree with Codeman.... LakePort Landing had 30 years to figure this out, with the city... the lease ended and it was time to pay the piper...

I continue to wonder financially how well LakePort Landing is really doing....

While I agree with Woodsy that it would be a lose for the community... maybe it is time for some new blood in the Marina industry around the lake.

So's .....what will Irwin's do with their new, high-visibilty addition.....will it be used for more boats.....or will it be used for pwc's, sno-mos, and maybe atv's? Maybe a canoe and kayak center.....no? .....hmmmm....probably not?

Oh well.....wait & see .... 24-months from now? Will Irwin Marine still be there ..... very similar to today......in the year 2065 when everyone is about 120-years old and still boating ...... ho-ho-ho?

Yes, but in my mind some of the money invested in the property should have been taken into consideration. Sometimes it's not just about the money.

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

Technically, no. Typical lease terms (and I have no insight about this particular deal) are that any improvements revert to the landlord/property owner at lease end unless other arrangements have been made.

I'm not sure how I feel about the outcome of this. On one side, yes, LL had a long time to plan for this. But 30 years of runway does not mean they should be taken to the cleaners by the city either, IMO the property was way overvalued.

Does Irwins really *need* that parcel? They seem to have plenty of land, this whole thing almost seems mildly confrontational on Irwins part.

I hope Lakeport Landing continues to thrive in the area, we don't need any businesses going away.

Codeman hit the nail on the head. If Lakeport landing really wanted the parcel and if it really meant something to them they would have given their best offer up front.

With the loss of the Formula Line and the attitude in the sales department they probably don't need the exposure and display space.

Congrats to Irwin
 

It's nice to see the good guys win.

The Breeze
Wave 'cuz I'll be wavin' back

Unfortunately in business it usually is...

I have never done business with Lakeport Landing so I have no issue with them there. As far as my non-business related opinion, I was quite disgusted with Erica's actions a few years back and the overall entitlement, arrogance and disregard for others safety related to it. Sounds to me like they thought they could steal the property and got caught with their pants down. Irwin paid a few hundred grand more, obviously seeing the potential and won.

Although some may not think the property was worth much, commercial property can't be compared to residential. The opportunity value was high, high being that Irwin is next door and now can expand further. Also, high in that it will cost Lakeport plenty to relocate. As an owner of commercial/industrial property, prices out there are not cheap especially when it comes to specialized properties.

It is nice to see a family owned business that has been established in the area for what seems to be an eternity to keep investing in the area. The Irwin name is a staple in the lakes region and they are in it for the long haul.

Why don't you throw salt on it too??
 

Are you seriously saying that the Irwin family is a great family business?? A great family business that just forced their neighbors out of their place of business?? The Blizzards BOUGHT the property thirty years ago, but the great family business Irwin SUED the City all the way to Supreme Court. They forced the Blizzards to have to lease the land not buy it. Now that they have been neighbors for over thirty years, the great family business Irwin, has pulled the rug out from under Lakeport by over paying for the property. The Blizzard family worked just as hard the Irwin family for the last thirty years building their business. Lakeport invested alot of money on the property, maintained it, and paid property taxes on it for thirty years.

It appears that the Irwin business has won the battle. I think that really small people will rejoice in watching a hard working successful area business, get forced out of their business home.

Don't you have any appreciation at all for what has happened to a "family owned business that has been established in the area for what seems to be an eternity" ?????? And I am not talking about IRWIN

I have and I do. I'm not going to elaborate on my experience there.....but .....Irwin's has my business and always will. Class act, stem to stern.

The Breeze
Wave 'cuz I'll be wavin' Back

Laconia Daily sun

Both the city and Irwins should be ashamed. I hope it backfires on Irwin's, and also hope that people are disgusted with their actions and will both boycott Irwin's and support Lakeport. Hopefully Lakeport can secure another location somewhere on Union Ave, close to their current location. Too bad they didn't grab that building where Paugus Bay Marina just opened their showroom. I don't do business with either marina, but I can assure you that I will never spend a dime at Irwin's. I used to get gas at Mountain view, but since that's operated by Irwin's, I will now go elsewhere.

Maybe Irwin's will do the right thing and lease the building back to Lakeport?

The city gave them both opportunities to ante up. Lakeport made no attempt to raise their bid, they submitted the same bid twice and tried to discredit the appraisal thinking they could work the system. Irwin played by the rules and went up almost $200k!

Lakeport has sold single boats worth more than they offered for the real estate.

What comes around goes around. In this case I feel that she got what's coming to her.

Heck, for $331k I would have bought it and leased it out....

I've heard many people say the appraisal was much higher than it should be, and Irwin's paid a lot more than THAT.

I think it was fair to expect at least one other appraisal and then have both parties go from there.

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

Appraisal value
 

The appraisal was based before the fact that the city wants most of the parcel converted to public parking. So I think it is fair that the current appraisal is very high. LL was gambling on the appraisal in the July time frame showing a much lower value.

Also LL made over $500,000 in improvements that should have been calculated in the value. I agree with Codeman but as a financial analyst, Irwin Marine's bid is way over the value, and I believe shows a power grab. I wish them the best of luck recuperating the money.

City of Laconia is 'hungry for money'. Hamel has to pay for his huge mistake, the High school sport complex. He was hoping it will pay for itself by renting out to sport teams etc. It is not panning out and will get worst due to the changing demographics. Predicted even before his folly.

Kudos to Baer, although I am not a fan, I will give her a pat on the back to stand up for what is right for Lakeport sector of the city.

I strongly believe Irwin Marine is upset as the city been leasing waterfront to Paugus Bay Marina and LL for dock space. I will not be surprise Irwin will go after PBM.

Irwins has a huge amount of frontage on Union Avenue.
To deprive Lakeport Landing of that little strip in such an underhanded way seems spiteful.
The intention seems to be not to help their business,but to hurt LL

Those are my thoughts exactly. I simply don't see that plot of land doing anything significant to affect Irwin's ability to run a successful business. It does however negatively affect Lakeport Landing.

I don't think Irwin's in bidding a market price, I believe they are attempting to use their resources to ultimately reduce competition and viability of boating in the area.

.... only time will tell?
 

So, what will Irwin do with their new high-visibility addition, the former Lakeport Landing property, starting maybe in 24-months from now?

Will it be more boats?

Will it be pwc's/sno-mo's?

Will it be atv's?

Will it be kayaks, canoes, small sailboats?
................

I have no clue, but my best so-called educated guess would be to use it for pwc's/sno-mo's, since that seems like a good all-year around fit for what they already have for a boats inventory, and I don't think Irwin's currently has any pwc's at Union Ave, Laconia.
................

If Irwin's gets a thirty year commercial mortgage, the $528,000 purchase price divided by 30 years equals $17600/year for thirty years plus the interest, and the entire amount is a deductible business expense against any profits.

So, the question is .... is this new addition worth paying $17,600 plus bank interest per year for 30 years plus property taxes. After 30 years, they would own it if they choose to go this mortgage route? That's like $2000/month or something, total?

Was purchasing this property from the City of Laconia for $528,000 a good business decision for Irwin's?

Your math is a bit flawed. Commercial loans are typically 20 years, not 30. Assuming 25% down which is a standard in commercial, you are looking more like $2600 per month plus taxes. Not sure what the tax bill is there. Still, a small price to pay for convenience and expandability. Granted I am sure they could afford to stroke a check and pay it outright.

here it is period point blank!

THERE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE FEELINGS IN BUSINESS. what would someone not want to take out their competitor to generate more business for themselves

Now not saying this situation at hand is ethical, but if it is legal, then there is nothing to say about it, you choose where you want to spend your money. Everyone had a right to bid on the property and this is what happened. You cannot punish the winner because the others feelings were hurt. Someone might have chosen to over pay and only time will tell if it works out, someone might have tried to pay actual value and because they did not over pay will have that money in their pocket, who knows.

the beauty of Economics and Capitalism.:)
- it is apart of what makes this country great!

Do you want to talk ethics? Have a conversation with Kevin from Paugus Bay Marine about what was done to him by the Blizzards. I said it before on this forum and I will say it again. My old Italian grandmother used to warn me in broken English...."If you do bad things then bad things will happen to you." Business is business...leave your "feelings" at the door. Good business practices are rewarded and bad ones come back to bite you in the a$$

The Breeze
Wave 'cuz I'll be wavin' back

My observation is that Lakeport Landing did not make a reasonable offer using the conditions put forth by the City Council. They tried to alter the conditions and that move blew up in their face. They lost fair and square to the higher bidder. That is what happens in any real estate deal be it commercial or residential. Erica Blizzard and Lakeport Landing made their bed and they have to sleep in it.

Of course everyone is assuming they had infinite financial resources to engage in a bidding war.