Snowbirding vs. Year-Round Retirement
 

As I mentioned on another thread, my wife and I have been talking about what our future might look like in retirement. When we bought our place in Arcadia, we always thought we'd either sell it and our main home to buy waterfront on Winni or sell the main home and buy a winter place in the south.

The former would appear to no longer be possible. Starting mainland waterfront is at least double what our main home and Arcadia camp would bring in.

The latter, however, seems to have a fair amount of considerations as well—both financially and in terms of weather, maintenance, etc.

Keeping the parameter of limited finances, what are people's thoughts on 1. Options, 2. Locations to winter (assuming, of course, that Winni is our home), or 3. Locations to move full-time that offer good weather/boating/lake or water activity year-round?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

i have long considered this as well, as I have long way to go. I have thought of keeping my lake place for 6 months and renting out something for 6 months, either the same place or in different places around the country or even just in the same southern state. Who wants the upkeep and all the extras of owning the place (clothes, maintenance, utility bills, insurance, and everything else) when you can rent it furnished for 6 months and move if you want to the next 6 months
to me that can keep it exciting, renting for the 6 months depending on where could even be cheaper than the 6 months of owning

Snowbirding vs. Year-Round Retirement
 

What about RV life, even if you still keep your Winni residence.?

Interesting idea, though I'm not sure how much driving I'd like to do on the back end. For the early part of retirement, the idea of different places is an interesting one.

I gotta say that I'm also romantically moved by the Great Loop talk that's been here and seeing sandbars in the south/Caribbean in winter.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

It depends on how warm you want it to be of course, but for me the Carolinas would be too cold in the winter. I think a lot of golfers do go there because they like it cool. If you were going to move there year round you might not mind as much as the summers are so hot and humid and they seem to like the cool winters. I know lots of native Floridians and I don't find them to be different at all. If anything I think it might be some of the snobs from the NE that are different, not the natives.

Perhaps consider a place not on Winni? There are many lakes in the area with lower prices and taxes. A place that is winterized would afford the opportunity to rent it out in the months when you go south and would pay for the costs of maintaining the place year round.

What about lakes down South, say Carolina lakes? Anyone have any experience with them, lived there or visited?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Rv?
 

Thinkxingu, you ask questions that have no easy answers and the answers may be different 10, 15, and 20 years from now. If you don't know where "down south" you want to go, that's an added issue. For true year round boating and water activities, you have to go way south. Mid-Atlantic isn't going to cut it. Maybe an RV so you can sample some places? We have friends who just bought one, and they love it, even for nearby weekend trips. Big deal is, the dog can come along so no need to make kennel arrangements way ahead.
Without knowing, I'd expect the 100% fixture would be to keep the camp. It will be sooner than you think when L'il Buddy will be starting to take over some of the routine duties.
The other approach, if you have ideas where you want to be, down south, is to buy something now that is largely rented/self supporting so you're building equity in the market you want to be in. Think of real estate investment as part of a diversified portfolio. Manage it as a business, not as a vacation home that you rent once in a while.

Lake Norman
 

My friends sold their neighborhood house (no lake) in so. NH and bought shorefront on Lake Norman, near Charlotte, NC. The shorefront house was twice the price of their old home, about the same as a place on Wiinipesaukee, over $1MM. This was November 2020. The NC house was on the market for only a couple of days and they bought without seeing it in person. Sold the NH house in a few days too, with an 8% overbid.

Distance
 

I think a large piece of the 'snowbird' option is how far away from the lake you will be living the rest of the year especially if you are an islander. The further the distance, the more the logistics of making it work become exponentially difficult. If you have to fly to NH (Logan or whatever), how do you get to the lake? Where do you keep your vehicle? What if you arrive at the marina and your boat isn't working right? What if your dock got destroyed by the ice?

If you live within driving distance (say < 8 hours) you can always return home should something catastrophic occur that prevents you from being at your lake house. If not - what do you do? Where do you stay while things are fixed?

These were the concerns we grappled with. Our though was to spend the winter in Spain and the summer on Rattlesnake. Sure - if you've got tons of cash you can always pay for someone to set everything up and let you know when it's ready. That ain't us. We ended up selling or cabin on Rattlesnake (more's the pity). Just keep Distance in mind when doing your Snowbird Calculus.

This might not matter to you, but as a point of interest, I think most, if not all, the lakes in the Carolinas are man made. Lake Norman is the largest one.

So what do they think about the lake and the weather there?Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Cardboard b oxes
 

Very happy. After a couple of moths, still unpacking. He stilt has to go to work, international travel, so it is a slow process.

Sirens and "Jake-Brakes" for the Hearing-Impaired...
 

Before I bought my Florida lakefront place, I checked for traffic noise. Only a northeast wind would allow traffic noise to carry. So, shortly after I'd my ideal place in 1977, I was awakened at daybreak by a loud whistle; fortunately, the train only runs on Sundays! :o

Daybreak also brings out the duck hunters, but their hunting season dates don't overlap my stayovers. :)

Did they know Interstate I-77 runs through the middle of Lake Norman. Y'know, the "truck route"? :eek2:

I would also consider state income taxes on pensions, 401ks etc. If you are a NH resident you do not have to pay income tax ( currently ) but if your main residency is a state that has it you would have to pay that.

I googled that lake, not the cleanest. But I'm thinking most of those lakes down south aren't going to be as clean as NH lakes or as pretty.

Southern Lakes
 

There are a couple of threads from a few years ago discussing Winni vs lakes in the south:

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ht=Lake+Norman

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ht=Lake+Norman

I have a neighbor across the street from me, log cabin on the lake, that moved to Tenn. He now comes back for the month of July every year.
I asked him this past summer why he just doesn't sell and buy a lake front home there. He said, "the water is brown and full of snakes". :laugh::laugh::laugh:

My wife and I just retired this past year and are going though the same thought process. But we have different visions of retired life. :D
My thinking is move to our NH home and just rent down south every year for 3 or 4 months.
My wife wants to sell out Waltham home, which I want to do also, and buy a home at the Cape.
So my question is to her, why would I want to own 2 summer destinations? :confused:

One of your biggest issues post retirement is Estate Taxes for your beneficiaries. Without going into the whole topic, MA has a terrible and regressive Estate Tax situation that taxes everything world wide unless you pay taxes elsewhere. What that means if you die a MA resident and have property in NH, the State of MA will tax that NH property. NH and FL are two states that have NO Estate Taxes. So buying anything in MA makes no sense to me. Make NH your permanent home, rent in the south, and be HAPPY to throw your winter clothes away !!! You have to think hard about the estate tax situation. It is a big deal and cost. Also, sell your MA property BEFORE becoming a NH resident and you can claim the one time Federal capital gains tax exclusion of $500,000 if married and filing jointly. If you become a NH resident first, your MA property becomes your second home and capital gains is fully taxable. I am no tax professional, so get real guidance, but this is what I have learned over the years.

Helpful tax info...
 

Tummy, you may not be a tax professional, but you provided useful information on estate taxes MA vs other states. Thanks. We bought the condo in Florida so our daughter would have a decent place to live, and now she isn’t living there. We had never considered owning 2 places, so my advice would be to be very deliberate in your planning before purchasing a second property. You might want to vary destinations from year to year. It’s just a thought...

It's difficult to avoid the extremes...Cold in the winter. Hot in the summer.

I think the best year-round weather in the USA is the southern coast of California between San Diego and Los Angeles. And, therefore it is crowded and expensive. I don't think it's possible to have-it-all at a reasonable cost.

I have a long commute from San Francisco to Meredith. I'd love to have an aquarium...I can't. I'd love to have a dog...Difficult. Even live plants become a problem.

To further complicate any decisions on my part, there is no other lake, like Lake Winni, in my opinion. In California everyone marvels about Lake Tahoe...A lake I find boring. Nice colors, brilliant blues, etc. Only one island and hardly anywhere to go by boat except around in circles. And it is extremely crowded and expensive.

Winni-snob
 

Absolutely agree. I've always referred to myself as a 'lake snob' because it's either Winni or it's just some pond somewhere. It is the gold-standard. We sold and will not buy a place on another lake anywhere. We'd always be comparing it (poorly) to beautiful Lake Winnipesaukee. Spoiled ourselves, we did.

I don't believe that fed estate capital gains is a one time exclusion. I've already taken it once and I believe I can take it again after living in my new residence for at least 2 years.

If Winni waterfront doesn't work with the budget, don't discount non-waterfront homes, especially if you can get convenient access via an owned ( or long-term rental slip ). You could get a decent home off lake + purchase a slip for less than half what a waterfront would cost you. Property taxes will be considerably less going that route as well.

Gary, I have a friend who lives in San Diego and it is cool- very often 60s- in the winter. It depends on what you like of course.

Something else to think about if it 's relevant to you is that besides the other tax advantages of NH and Fl, Fl does not have interest and dividends tax but NH does.

I’d take 60s all winter long.

And that's what some people like. To me that's too cold and if I am going to be in the house most of the time with the heat on, I might as well have snow and ice outside and one place to live.

In Florida my brother said it got into the 30's a few nights ago. He had a citrus that died from frost.

I could deal with 50's and 60's. I like to walk, hike, and bike so that's perfect weather for those activities.Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

We purchased on a canal with Gulf access down here in FL 3 years ago for very reasonable price. They are going up, probably due to Covid related moves, but still very reasonable, as compared to the lake anyway. It' not Winni, for sure, but we do 6/6 and are able to enjoy nice weather and boating all year. Don't miss those winters.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jpcole...posted-public/

Interest and Dividends tax
 

House Bill 568 has been filed by Rep. Norm Silber (r-Gilford) to phase out and repeal the I & D tax. Call your reps and senators.

What are the chances?

The lakes in the low country Carolinas are nice but are generally shallow, and due to the soil makeup in the area, get muddy- red/ orange muddy easily. Lake Norman and Wylie were both created by Duke Power (now Duke Energy) to cool their nuclear plants. Norman has some naturally deep areas, but it is amazing to ride around just off shore- the depth finder is spot on at 10', no rocks!

Lake Keowee in the mountains is also Duke made but is much more similar to what we are used to. Rocky, with inconsistent depth and obstacles. It is beautiful.

January was a little colder in Florida than it usually is. However the next 7 days look pretty good! When they say showers it usually rains for about 1/2 hour and then the sun comes out.

I am fortunate to be able to spend 6 months at the lake and 6 months in Florida. I love Winnipesaukee, and have been on the lake some part or all of every summer for over 50 years, but when it turns cloudy and gray I head south.

There are additional real estate tax benefits, not available to non residents, when you claim the Florida house as your primary residence and you can still avoid the income taxes.

IF I read this right, if successful this wipes out and estimated 113 million per year flowing into the state's general fund by the time it takes full effect. Now what is the likelihood that the state whacks that much in annual spending out of the budget? Exactly.... not much of a chance that will happen so where do they think they are going to make it up? I'd like to hear some ideas on that.

With only republicans signing on to this which is no surprise the democrats will do their best to thwart it's passing because any tax cut is a bad idea. In particular this one because those that would benefit actually have some savings paying out D&I to qualify and therefore must be, ya know "rich". Remember your elected officials knows better what to do with your money than you do anyway.

With things the way they are right now I don't see a serious conversation going on to consider the possibility of how it could happen. Just the old mantra of tax cuts for the "rich" and kids will starve, the elderly will suffer (ironically even though the elderly\retired are the ones most likely to BENEFIT from this), and of course the world as we know it will come to an end. Heck maybe even add to global warming more than John Kerry's private jetting all over the world.

Snowbirding?
 

Repeal of the I & D Tax isn't directly related to Snowbirding and it was not my intent to steal Think's thread. Happy to discuss if someone wants to start a fresh thread.

The usual suspects are derailing this thread to push their political agenda. :( It was informative while it stayed on track.

Back on track....
 

So.......Biggd, feel free to put it back on track.....be a hero. 😎

Anyone here have a "tropical" place for winters?

The issue with having Arcadia as our summer place is that we'd need a reliable winter place as there's no flexibility with the open/close dates of the season. Renting, therefore, may be a challenge, though maybe a similar type association might work.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Mexico...
 

I have spent quite a few winter months in Barra de Navidad, Jalisco, Mexico (and other parts of Mx). Not many Americans. Popular with Canadians. I usually rent an entire 2 bdrm house with a pool for around $1,600/month. If you eat at the best restaurants in town (and they are good) you'll pay about $12 including good wine. A beer in a bar, like Negro Modelo, will be about $1. Not necessary to speak Espanol, but it makes the experience a whole lot better if you can speak a little...And during the summer you can hablar un poco de Español at El Jimador in Laconia. It impresses the wait staff!

And just an aside, it used to be difficult to get a burrito in Mexico. Not anymore. Their origin was in Texas.

Gary pointed out the desirability of the San Diego area; for something less expensive and on the water consider getting something on the Colorado River in So. Cal / Arizona / Nevada.

Snowbirds in the Pac NW flock south in winter, usually roosting near Yuma, Arizona on the Mexican border.

Basically focus on the Colorado River from Bullhead City, Arizona south to the border.

Needles has a lot of hot boats: love those V-drives!

see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4hAe0g5tHw

Anyone have experience with coastal SC or GA?
 

We've been wrestling with where to do our southern months of the year as we glide into that phase of our lives in a couple years. Neither of us like FL. We have friends in Daniel, (or Daniels'?), Island, SC, and they love it. We have also heard second hand that coastal GA is very nice as well, but GA has a big coast, so that's a lot of towns. Would love to hear any SC or GA recommendations. (I should also add that while we both play golf, we don't want to be in a golf community...ideally would like to be on some sort of coastal waterway, bay, etc) Thanks!

Puerra vida
 

When we were in Costa Rica, we learned that more Social Security checks go to Costa Rica than any other foreign country. My friend, sort of retired but won't admit it, bought a condo there a few years ago, west coast overlooking the ocean, pool, not direct shorefront, but close. He goes there a couple of times a year and the management company rents it out for him when he isn't there.
I hear Belize is nice for snowbirds, but I've never been there.

I do 6 on Lake Winnipesaukee and 6 in FL, best of both worlds!

but you gotta pick one
 

We chose FL. 7 mos there and 5 in NH BUT we still call NH "home".

Weird question, but has anyone read Tim Dorsey or Randy Wayne White? When I read these guys, I find myself longing for a small cove with access to open water or something. I think Sanibel Flats was the book that sounded amazing. Do places like that exist without giant marinas, overpopulated areas?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

They do!

Just have to get out of New England and off the East Coast. Precisely my plan for early retirement.

One of my best friends that I've know for 50 years is a sales rep and travels the world. He said his favorite place to unwind is Captiva. He goes there every April.

If you want to go to Captiva we have some good friends that sell RE there.

http://resortpropertiesinternationale.com

Would love to wander through there, but it's an endless loop with no listings?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Try this:

http://northcaptiva.net

I've been to Captiva and loved it. Expensive...Because lots of people have discovered before us. Very hot in summer.

Sanibel & Captiva
 

Both are very nice. There is that aspect that they are like southern NH--everybody there is from a Boston suburb. Great beaches and weather, minimal tourist traps. Good bicycling. When we had the grandchildren at Sanibel, a local company rented us a wagon full of beach toys; dropped off at the condo and picked up when we left.

Some best memories in my brain...

When I worked for Litton Industries, we had a President's Club reward meeting at Captiva. All toys were paid for...Boston Whalers, jet skis, food, booze, etc. Other people (all male group) brought their wives. I brought my girlfriend and we all had an incredible time. I brought about 50 Lbs. of shells back to San Francisco that I found on a tiny island with the whaler.

This could be a good 6 months destination away from the BIG LAKE. Small lots and expensive though.

However, I'm starting to feel an urge to move "back east", and escape California before Nevada becomes ocean-front property in it's stead. Even thinking positive of snow and ice. Been watching the live cam from Portsmouth's Strawbery Banke skating rink with some envy, I'm not sure I understand.

You can dress for the cold, but can only undress for the heat to a certain limit.:)

I'd like to flood the ice in front of my place on Lake Winni, make a rink and ice skate.

Not enough years in life to do it all, just enough to make a dent.

Florida Has 1,300 Golf Courses...
 

It's kind of in the boonies, but there's an Arcadia in Florida. The Peace River runs nearby, the plentiful source of large fossilized bones—and Megalodon shark teeth! :eek:

Driving from Key West to Pensacola, it takes 13 hours to drive across Florida—if you don't stop. :(

Surely, there's some places that would appeal to you. :confused: A reminder...in Winter, the difference in temperatures can be 30 degrees between Miami and Orlando. :eek2:

Many times, a couple of Florida beaches make "The World's 10 Best Beaches" list. :coolsm:

We are in a condo with a dock in Tiera Verdi (St Pete ) and love it. Captiva is a dream location, small island, one main road, laid back. We take our fishing boat down a few times a year and stay at Tween the Waters or South Seas. Doc Ford books are fun and there ARE places in his books that exist. The island is Uber expensive real estate, however Venice Fl south on the intercostal is loaded with great spots that might be affordable, fyi the Gulf waters are clear and Carib like with no snakes or other stuff that will attempt to kill you other than a few sharks

30 degrees??? Night time lows?

Hey neighbor! We are on Tierra Verde too.

The boating there is great with access to the Gulf of Mexico, Tampa Bay and the Gulf ICW.

There are several great beaches nearby.

Going north into St Pete it gets busy with lots of traffic but one can hide out on TV and avoid all that.

Wifey and I took a ride down to Captiva and Sanibel Islands and it was beautiful.

The traffic in and out of there was crazy and took forever.

Once there it was worth it but going off island to get stuff would be tedious.

For reference, distance from Orlando to Miami is approximately the same as between the New Hampshire borders of Massachusetts and Canada. It then follows* that, just as weather is colder in northern NH than southern, it would also be appreciably colder in northern FL than in southern.

Here's some data from last month, that shows from north FL to Miami was up to high 20's degrees different, both in day and night temperatures... and some days were the same.


*Yes, I recognize the factors of weather, such as jet stream, are different in FL vs NH, and so I concede the comparison isn't just as simple as subtracting relative latitude.

We've lived in Florida for over 20 years and would come up "home" to NH for a few scattered weeks-months every year.

Florida is nice. Used to be nicer.

Florida is hot. Very hot. It gets old. We lived in Southwest Florida and I can tell you that there were windows in our house that had never been opened....ever since the house was built. Not to mention the ANXIETY every time a hurricane passes through and you have to get things fixed or rebuilt.

I hated the thought of losing everything as result of a storm; and no, insurance doesn't pay out like it used to. You can thank Hurricane Andrew (1992) for that.

The flat scenery gets old. As does the beach and the same strip shopping centers one right after the other. You can only shop so much.

If you're into fishing, it's great. Everyone has a boat. Everyone.

If you enjoy boating on Lake Winni on a 4th of July weekend, you’ll love boating in Florida year round.

If you're a golfer and not willing to join a club, be ok with golfing in the summer; winter is for those with money to waste. Public courses as well. Tee times are crowded as is the course....move along and play fast.

We couldn't wait to get back to NH for good. We can actually enjoy Florida now that we only "visit" for 5 or 6 weeks every year. We go when and where we want and enjoy the different parts of the state.

That's my two cents. Good luck!

Winni isn’t crowded and expensive?

It is yes but a quick search of Lake Tahoe lakefront properties show multiple for sale over 40 million. Winni is not that expensive.

Culture and Life in the Winter
 

So, my wife and I are now doing the two-house thing: waterfront in NH in the summers, winters in town, which is for us is Baltimore, DC, and occasional trips to NY and Chicago to visit kids (pre-COVID and ideally post). We love the Lake in the summer, but what to do in the winters if we decide to consolidate to one home in West Alton? Of course we can still get to NY and Chicago, but does anyone run to Boston for theatre, concerts, art and food? Overnights or roundtrips? How about Portsmouth and Portland? We love the small town feel of Winnipesauke, but wondering what folks do to keep things interesting over the winter.

Take Concord Coach or Lakes Region Limousine to North Station, Boston. A couple of nights at the Boxer Hotel. Dinner in The North End. Maybe a show or sports event (some day). Shopping in Chinatown for baby octopus to take home. Walk down Newbury St. Have a drink at one of the great hotels.

As a Granite Stater, I'm insulted by this post. I hope you will take my response in that understanding. Don't be such a prima donna. If you come to NH in the winter, learn to snow shoe, and ice fish, to ski and snowmobile. If you can't give up being a flauntcy, join the AMC and hike year round. There are so many other things in life beyond big city stuff where you sit in a seat with 1000 others and somebody "entertains" you. Come on up, sit with 250 and be entertained if you don't have it within you to join a theater group or an orchestra and be part of the program. From W. Alton, its an easy jog to Durham and UNH where there is an endless offering of concerts, plays, top quality sports, and you might take a class or two. To paraphrase Elon Musk, "Come here, but leave your culture/politics in the old place."

I love the winters in NH. It's beautiful. The snow remains pristine longer. It's not crowded. The ice is gorgeous and adventurous. It's getting too crowded during the summer, let's not encourage more of that in the winter also! Please!

Good advice, we've considered this. You suggestions are appreciated.

My dream is 30 or so acres up in NH, with a nice shop that I can build and sell a few hot rods out of during the year, a tractor that I can use maintaining the property, cutting trees for firewood, and just slowing things down. I can't get that with a property on the lake in my price range, but could slip a boat there and be much closer to drive there than from Mass!

I'm 37, really hoping I can retire around 58/59 or so when my wife hits her 35 years in the teaching system down here in Mass so I guess we'll see what life brings then! In the meantime I'm building my dream shop at least here in Mass and enjoying it while I'm here with a few weekly vacations at the lake!

Snowbirding?
 

This isn't really about snowbirding, but it's a nice dream. I think you need a longer horizon, i.e. start buying land now. I suggest contacting the NH Timberland Owners Association. Jason Stock is the Executive Director. It s not infrequent for somebody who owns land to do a harvest just before sale, so it could be another 20-25 years before the next harvest. You might get a few cord each year as you do some clean-up and maintenance. If you want to plant a crop of hardwood, it's not for you, it's for your grandchildren. Balsam
Frasier or Fralsam Christmas trees might get a crop in 8-10 years, but a lot of work each year. Along with a committee, I co-manage 130 acres in suburban Nashua/Manchester. We use Bay State Forestry for our experts. They may be able to help. Last I heard, they manage about 30,000 acres in MA and NH.
Whatever you do, start now. Good luck.

I guess it was more my idea for year round retirement. I don't see myself ever being a snowbird, I enjoy the seasons too much.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure I want to be a snowbird, either, but I'm also not sure I want to be in a remote cabin in the woods full-time. My wife and I looked at land, almost buying a parcel just a few miles from Lost River, but then we got to thinking about what it would take to keep the kids entertained, etc.

Being near the lake changes so much—places to walk, ice skate, snowmobile, shop, etc. that I think I'd much rather be in that type of area for retirement.

I'm thinking/hoping as we grow older we'll end up doing something like above—a "regular" home in the Lakes Region or north (I love winter hiking) and Arcadia or selling Arcadia and finding a small association of houses that has close enough lake access to walk there easily. If so, maybe we'd only spend a few weeks in warmer weather.

Looking at my teacher retirement schedule, it looks like I've got 16 years to make a decision, so plenty of time to enjoy the ride first!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Just imagine if you were snow birding in TX right now. Go there to get away for the winter and it is colder there than it is here.

Yeah, it's not good right now. My cousin is a head nurse and her hospital's been on emergency since Sunday and another friend's worried he's gonna lose his home and pool piping. [emoji1696] Things work out.

Over lunch, my wife and I were discussing seaside condos 1.5-3 hours from Arcadia as an option. We love the ocean on the off-season, and it'd be nice to be there midweek here and there in the summer...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Sand Fleas...Worse than Black Flies?
 

I've lived in tropical or sub-tropical climates most of my life. I wouldn't have picked SW Florida to live. In a discussion with then-Governor Claude R. Kirk, I learned that the SW Florida coast wouldn't be developed because of "the sand fleas". Even today, sand fleas are a good reason to stay indoors all day--every month--in the A/C!

IMHO, Florida's best weather is found in Miami. (But it might be crowded there). :rolleye2:

Hurricane Andrew struck well south of Miami, in an area of heavy residential development.

From the 1970s, new houses were built "to code"; alas, individual builders kept defeating efforts to keep its code strong. One fatality (caused to a next-door neighbor :eek2: ) was blamed on a weak, but rebar-strengthened concrete roofing sill.

Following Hurricane Andrew's much-copied building codes, the same problems can be traced to SE Florida's municipal code inspectors! :eek:

After Hurricane Irma, I asked a neighbor why she was already replacing her new metal roof. She replied, "Because it had been struck by a chunk of her neighbor's metal roof".

From Rhode Island to West Texas, coastal hurricanes have been a fact of coastal life since the 1500s.

Since my birth, the US' population has more than doubled. Guess to which Eastern states that new population growth has been gravitating?

WOW ! A lot of Florida negativity. I don't see it that way.

This is my 14th winter in SWFL and I have yet to see a sand flea! I am fortunate to be able to do this and have Winnipesaukee to look forward to in the summer. After over 50 years north of Boston I have seen enough snow to last a lifetime.

Maybe I'll change my tune someday, but the thought of moving south and missing out on the winter doesn't work for me. Something pretty satisfying about dressing for the cold and getting outside, making syrup as spring arrives, and heading out to the island as soon as the ice is gone.

For me, a place in the south is like a snowmobile or a jet ski. It's a great thing for a friend to have so I can borrow it, but I'm not interested in owning any of the three. Retirement is a long way away, though. Maybe I'll change my mind.

I do enjoy reading this thread.

Sand Fleas...that's it!
 

From their 60's to their 80's, my in-laws had a condo in Bonita Springs, (in between Ft Myers and Naples, for those not familiar with the area), and we would go down for a week on either the Feb or April kids' school vacations. I would always come home with my legs bitten to sh** from my ankles to my mid-shins...itchy as could be. I could never understand where I got the bites, because I never saw or felt anything on my legs. That, coupled with the smelly, warm water out of the faucet and the endless strip malls, soured me on SW FL

This is where I find my thinking goes—I like New England in the winter, but I'm so...enchanted by the aqua-water-Caribbean-boating-sandbar lifestyle.

I wonder how long it would take me to "get my fill" of that. Like, could we road trip/rent a month in the keys and have that be enough?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

So, the family has been on the lake since just after the war, built on Welch Island ~1960. Nobody would ever consider selling, even though total use might be 30-40 days a season. From 1970-2005, we had a condo in Pompano Beach. Although everybody had enjoyable visits there, when my folks moved to a retirement community in NH, nobody wanted it, and, Bang!. Sold without a second thought. If we could have done rentals, we might have held it for awhile, but the condo rules allowed only long term leases.

Although we might use it only 30-40 days a year, same a the camp, I feel ike if I had a southern place, I want it rentable when I wasn't there. That eliminates a lot o\f south FL where summers are hot, and leads to the panhandle or maybe Georgia, whee there is a summer rental market.
BTW, I mentioned earlier about my buddy who owns a condo in Costa Rica. He can fly in because he's a homeowner, but others aren't allowed in and getting back into the states this year is difficult at best. January and February, the best rental months, have been vacant.

At a minimum I am surprised with the negativity and the tales of how bad Florida is.

I am in the next town north of Bonita Springs, Estero, and after 14 years I have not experienced the negatives that people have mentioned. Fleas? Haven't seen any. Smelly water? My tap water is great and it makes excellent ice cubes for cocktails!

Strip malls? Yes, there are areas with a concentration of commercial activity and most anything I need can be found within 10 miles of the house. At the Gilford house, the lake makes up for the fact that there is limited shopping for some items and a drive to Concord or Manchester may be necessary when I need something.

When I have company in Florida I take them to waterfront restaurants in Sanibel, Marco Island, and Fort Myers Beach. Many great places to go all within 20 to 40 minutes of the house. There are numerous beaches that are not too crowded, especially when you go by boat.

That is just what I have found in the winters I have spent in Florida, and any negatives are minimal.

I will stop writing now. It is 7:30, still light out, and the solar has the pool water temperature at 88 degrees. Time for a swim! :)

Lots of Space Left in Florida, But Be Aware...
 

To see a Sand Flea, you're gonna need your reading glasses. ;) (Also known as "Flying Jaws", sand flies, beach fleas, sand gnats, hop-a-longs, punkies, or the very appropriate "no-see-ums.) ;)

The Pensacola Panhandle also has a sand flea, but it's a harmless surf-loving crustacean.

My delightful neighbors (sadly) just moved away to assisted-living in Pompano, which was just listed as the highest crime rate in Florida, and the highest rate of Florida's Covid-19 cases. :eek:

Massachusetts readers will recognize the name, John "Zip" Connolly, the hero of the film "The Departed". Convicted of murder, he's just been released from a 40-year prison sentence on medical grounds, and has moved--yep--to Pompano! :rolleye1:

With all due respect to MeredithMan, his bites are likely due to [URL]Trombicula_alfreddugesihttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trombicula_alfreddugesi, found mostly among tall moist grasses.

Sand fleas usually bite at the ankles, but can be mistaken for a mosquito bite on any exposed skin. They're just as wary as mosquitoes, and hard to swat. Early mornings and dusk are favored party-time for sand fleas. (Most severe, logically, on the coasts).

Florida is only "guilty" of being in the middle of hurricane strikes. Ask the citizens of Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, the Carolinas, New Jersey, Long Island, Vermont, and even Ontario.

I see the present temperature difference between north- and south- Florida is 40 degrees! :eek2:

SW Florida had a groundwater emergency about 15 years ago. The US Navy hooked up a warship that delivered desalinated seawater to the area. Such desalination was later replaced by a permanent plant. About 10% of drinking water is desalinated.

Much of SW Florida's fresh water escapes to the sea through Florida's many canals. Municipal wells nearest Florida coasts suffer from saltwater intrusion, and are permanently capped.

As APS suggests sand fleas,flies, no-see-ums, etc are tiny. Generally speaking, the bites trigger an allergic reaction to them and Florida residents usually become immune and are not bothered by them. Newcomers can have severe reactions including large blisters.

It is also true that there is a geographic variation even in Florida and not all “sand fleas” are the same.

I had no idea Florida entomology was so fascinating in the Lakes Region.

Now, about duck itch and black flies....:):)

To be fair...
 

I know there are many many folks that love FL in the winter. My in-laws loved going there for more than 20 years. They were both avid golfers and they really enjoyed being in a golf community. They had many friends in their condo development and my father-in-law used to say, "every night is like New Year's Eve!" Like a lot of folks, they rented for a few years and then ultimately bought a place. I think the biggest take-away/learning experience from watching their situation over the years, is that when you get a retirement place, make sure it meets your needs not only now, but 20 years from now. My in-laws' condo was a 2nd floor unit, with two big stairways, (10 steps up, a landing, 10 more steps up). There was no elevator. This was not an issue when they were in their early 60's, but by the time they were in their 80's, it was a major problem.

I agree. The current Florida house is one level and it is an easy walk in from the garage with groceries Etc. That should definitely be a top priority when someone chooses to buy a retirement home, anywhere.

As we get older (and more forgetful) it is a lot easier to run from the car back into the house when you forget your sunglasses with a one level home! Sometimes when I am out on Winnipesaukee I notice the houses with very long stairways to the lake (Rattlesnake Island) and think how ticked off I would be if I hiked down to the boat and realized I forgot something at the house and needed to go back up.

I have friends who rented a third floor condo in Naples Florida for the month of February. Their biggest complaint is how difficult it is to bring suitcases and groceries from the parking garage, to the elevator, to the condo. They aren't making those cases of bottled water any lighter!

I've vacationed in N. Georgia a few times and I have to say if I was in the market for a winter or full time retirement location, that would be it. Within the Chattahoochee National Forest are Lakes Burton, Nottely and Chatuge as well as others. Very nice lakes for boating without the hazards we deal with here. The Smokey's aren't too far either for great hiking and even trout fishing. I found the area to be very "Lakes region" like except for the winter. The winters are typically in the 50 - 60 degree range but can also get into the 70's and some light snow is possible from time to time but doesn't hang around for long. Summers are beautiful but not nearly as humid as Atlanta. The state does have an income tax but does not tax social security earnings. Can't comment on the real estate as we haven't seriously looked into it but we've seen some beautiful waterfront homes similar to Winni. Unfortunately, the SC coast is 4 - 5 hours away but if you're looking for a Winni like area I would recommend having a look.

Twenty USA Party Lakes Mentioned...
 

Lake Kenowee, along with Lake Winnipesaukee, gets a mention here:

https://www-thrillist-com.cdn.amppro...ity-charlevoix

Top 20
 

Interesting reading Aps. But Wolfeboro got scr***d. Most other towns had nice pics of lakes and beaches. Wolfeboro got a pic of Main St. traffic, and not very good pic at that. And when is this "Lobster Day" they talk about? New to me.

They advertise it. It's not any special day that I know of.

Lobster Day at the 2 supermarkets is advertised in the Granite newspaper for the following week. I want to say it's in August, but it could be July.

I typically buy 4-6 lobsters for dinner and lobster rolls- they're no bigger than
1- 1 1/4 lbs and priced at around $5.80-$5.99/lb

The line can be long if you get there later than 11AM, but everyone is in a good mood with the lobstermen reaching into the crates and bagging them for sale.

Would've preferred a photo of the lake instead of downtown as well...

Thanks, and a request
 

Good info. Id be pl;eased if somebody here would post "Lobster Day" for those of us who don't always get the local info.

The South Carolina recon mission...
 

So we just did Thurs - Sun in South Carolina to see if we might like it for the winter months of the next phase of life. I think the answer is "no". We did two nights in Hilton Head and 1 night in Charleston. We found Hilton Head to be "Florida North". A main drag where people drive like crazy, (William Hilton Parkway), with gated communities that you can't get into to check out unless you're visiting someone or are going in with a realtor. We did visit some friends there in their development which was ok.

We also have friends in the Daniels Island section of Charleston, whom we saw on our 1 night there, but they were running late to meet up with us and we weren't able to see their house/neighborhood, so all we saw was 1 section of the city itself, which was underwhelming.

It didn't help that almost the entire time we were there, it was pouring and 47 degrees...it was warmer and nicer in NH this past weekend than it was in SC! The locals told us that that is typical January weather, so we thought might have to go the FL route after all to get shorts & t-shirt weather in Jan/Feb/Mar.

On to planning the next recon mission....

I searched other options to but I found North Carolina South Carolina even in Georgia the weather just isn’t that great in January and February so I did end up choosing Florida but on the West Coast I preferred much over the East Coast I think it’s a little more laid-back and relaxed


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Hilton Head Fun Fact....
 

....perhaps some of you that have been there before, or have played the Harbour Town golf course know this already, but....

For many years, I've watched the golf tournament, (I can't remember the name of it), on TV that is played at the Harbour Town golf course. The broadcast always shows the iconic Harbour Town lighthouse as the players walk up to the 18th green. We went to Harbour Town for lunch on one of the days and I was shocked to find that the lighthouse is in an area of tourist shops and not on the golf course itself. When I saw the lighthouse, I said to my wife, "where the hell is the 18th green?" And there it was...several hundred yards across the water and marina!

Now I know what Dorothy felt like when she learned that the Wizard of Oz was some old guy behind a curtain....:laugh::eek:

If the goal is nice weather during the winter you have two choices:

1) Go to Florida and just deal with the crowding that exists.

2) Buy something closer to the equator.

Pick your poison but winter sucks!

Couple of other choices. I have friends that love Arizona and San Diego for the winter.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

All that glitters isn’t gold…
 

Speaking of Arizona, our friends who retired there are quite unnerved now by their proximity to the southern border and the mayhem there. I would imagine that current circumstances might be hindering people from settling there.

I've also heard reports that when the snow birds arrive it's tough to get good medical care; many oldsters bring quite a few tanks of oxygen with them due to difficulty getting same.

My friends are more north near Gilbert and Scottsdale but you are correct especially down near Tucson


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I have had a winter home in Southwest Florida for many years. Although I occasionally go the the Miami area, the Fort Myers/Naples is much quieter and more "civilized". One thing that stands out as different than the lake area is more convenient access to any type of retail store you could want. Within 10 miles there is everything from car dealers to Publix, Target, Marshalls, and Costco. The biggest negative I see is Florida drivers. No signals, and tailgating constantly. A Florida Sheriff told me that over 90% of the car accidents are rear-end collisions.

In my opinion, if you are going to move because of weather there is no sense stopping in the Carolina's, you may as well continue south. It seems as if every day in Florida, from November through April, is sunny and in the 80's. Almost every day is a good boating day!

I am glad to have given up the snow shovel! I have friends who winter in Alabama and it looks like it is raining 50% of the time.