Marina slip fee increases
 

Has anyone else seen substantial marina slip fee increases for 2022? I have a 10% increase over last year in my Moultonborough marina. I guess it makes sense given the lack of available slips and long waiting lists these days, but it still hurts.

Marina fees have been increasing significantly as demand has increased over the past 5 years.


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Substantial
 

Been paying for a decade around $1800. Last year increase to 2400. Just got the bill for this year $3300! Yeap, prices increase substantially.

I also notice a significant increase in buildings for valet storage. Doesn't help me!

That. Is. Crazy. I'm all for marinas making money, but that's gouging. There's no way costs have doubled in two years.

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Gilford went through property reassessments this year and boat slips went up about 50% to march huge increases in sales prices. As the taxes go up, so do the rents. There was a $500 increase at MVYC a few years ago when the board of directors raised the dues $500. I'd guess the average there is now approaching $6000 for 12 months. They don 't do seasonal. Also, mostly larger slips/boats.

One way to think about marinas is that they are real estate businesses. Just as the price of waterfront homes has skyrocketed over the past 5 years or so, the value of slips has surged

While costs are a factor in pricing, marinas, and most businesses, sell at whatever the market will bear. Business do not exist to meet their costs and make a slight profit. It is all about supply and demand.

The supply of boat slips on Winnipesaukee will always be limited, only the demand will change with the economy.

If prices increase to the point where there are no takers, then they will start to come down. It is just the free market at work.

Slip Rental
 

ye

Our slip rental also topped $3300 for the 2022 season

When we forego the large, unjustified markups of our home prices if we had chosen to sell recently, the marinas may choose to limit their slip prices to to what their "costs" are.

When commodities are scarce, prices go up until enough buyers are driven out of the market because they cannot afford it and that causes prices to level off. For some commodities, more can be manufactured thus reducing scarcity. In the case of land, especially docking space around the lake, there is a permanent limit on availability. The only fix to such scarcity is to force some buyers out of the market.

I am sympathetic, my valet prices have been going up as well. However, boating by it's nature is an expensive activity. I have been dreaming about replacing my 22 ft. bow rider and the cost would be well over $100K. Ouch.

our fees significantly increased this year by 64% for our 22' bowrider, quite the jump.

Now that’s a good point.

Is it? I'm trying to figure out the math, and it would seem that the homeowner selling at a markup benefits once whereas the marina will benefit in perpetuity. I mean, sure, prices *might* come down a bit in the following years, but there's no way it'll ever be matched to the declines in value.

I mean, if my house was being rented, I wouldn't be doubling the rent just because the value of the home went up 50%, right? It might happen over a decade or so, but in two years?

That's like Dave Ramsey trying to justify tenants moving out after he raised the rents solely to match the *market*.

Just thinking out loud here, but it reeks of gouging.

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Marina Fees
 

Does anybody else on the islands feel they're being held hostage by the marinas?

Understandable thought. We went through thios in a sense 40 years ago when some marinas went condo and islanders were afraid they'd have no place available on the mainland. Part of the result was a lot more valet, but even that is limited by parking and land space needs. It won't get any easier. In the "early years", islanders did not always have an easy access power boat--they took a taxi to the island and left a message for pickup at some future time. Remember, no phones then. When Gilford Marina (MVYC) went condo in 1983, slips sold for 20-25K. A house in those days sold for <150K. The slip now sells for $160K (8X) and the House for only $360K.(2.4x). In some respects, the marinas have been slow to raise rates, but now, they can't get boats to sell, and they can't sell boats if they don't have slips. They still have fixed overhead and a short season, for things like service and gas, which can't fully support a business.
It looks like islanders need to find long term solutions, either for the next generation or for the next buyer. If you can't sell a boat without a slip, you certainly can't sell ah island camp. Wolfeboro Corinthian Yacht Club may have an example; I think it is mostly Wolfeboro islanders.

Depends. The rent would go up 50% if the rental market was willing to pay it based on the supply of rentals available.

Also thinking out loud on a complicated topic. I agree 64% in a year is gouging for a returning slip renter. Just outrageous. But are you sure you would rent to a new renter at below market rates?

I also think there's a difference between renting a luxury good compared to an apartment housing somebody on a relatively fixed income. If I owned an apartment building, I would not increase a current tenant by more than the CPI or my costs. But if you're a lake local and your only asset is your dock space, what's your obligation to hold prices down for a guy with a $50-100K toy?

I hope that is not what the elderly think is going to happen.
If it is... we are going to have a supply run on blue tarps for their ''real estate'' out on the WOW trail.

There are so many variables. A smart business person will consider them all and select a rate reflective of the market less the risks including those associated with being perceived as someone who's gouging. But I bet a vast majority of people that are renting slips, bikes, AirBnbs or whatever don't consider all those variables and simply go for the highest dollar value the market will bear. Sadly, that's the way of the world today. Customer care is a dying art. It's all about me, not about you. But, as Jeffk points out, when the shoe is on the other foot...

Regarding the marinas, I doubt many of them are too worried about business not being there in the future. I mean, maybe they need to respond to market declines at some point by lowering prices but do any of them really think they aren't going to be able to fill up all those slips in the future at the highest possible price point? Yes, they'll anger some people but I'm betting in most case that's second fiddle to the almighty dollar.

I will respectfully disagree with your business strategy. Your business expenses should have nothing to do with what is charged for a service other than knowing that you need a certain amount to keep the business prosperous.

If the market rate rent for an apartment was $1,500 per month but you had tenants paying $1,000 and the CPI went up 3% you would only raise their rent to $1,030? You would not ask for the other $470 per month you could get? So if it was a 100 unit apartment building you would leave behind an additional $47,000 per month that you could have collected?

I had tenants once, that complained when I raised their rent to the fair market value, saying I should only collect what my expenses were and make a profit when I sold the building. I responded that if I was using their thought process, if I was a wealthy man and had paid cash for the building, should I let them live in it for free and run a home for little wanderers?​

Any business owner is entitled to charge what the market will bear. Putting away reserves when times are good, for the low income years, market slumps, and assorted other expenses is just good business.

I care a lot about customers. But the ones that want luxuries should expect to pay for those luxuries.

Transparency
 

Transparency is a word we hear a lot and mostly ignore. Let's be transparent here and state our position. In my case, I own a rental residence and I own a rental boat slip. It's hard to raise the rents on a residence because, if the tenant leaves, I may have to re-paint, replace carpet, advertise and have vacant times with no rent. The goal is to keep the tenant in place, right? In the case of a boat slip, there is no expense to turnover, except perhaps vacancy. There is a wait list of tenants who will, pay a higher rent, if that's the market. That's the way it is today. In some years, there is no wait list, and I get no rent at all, or I reduce the price to find a way to cover some, if not all of my expenses, mortgage, dues, taxes. In that case, I can't sell, no buyers, or the price is a loss if I sell. This is all pretty basic, but posters on this topic should indicate their perspective, not just a position from Economics 101.

Wouldn't that just be you deciding that the extra cost is not worth the possible increased return?

No one has mentioned the endless moratorium on rents and evictions.The majority of the nation’s landlords are individual investors.many who bought two.three or 4 family homes to live in as well as an investment for the future.They still have to pay mortgages, perform repairs and maintenance while not collecting rent and it's caused many to lose their homes or file bankrupcty

I agree with you on business strategy. What you describe maximizes profits, at least short term. I do this regularly.

But having grown up in a town with a lot of people who were just scraping by--if I owned an apartment building and property values were roaring while costs were pretty much flat, I would not raise rates in a way that would squeeze (good) tenants who were barely making it. Keep in mind that if a person is paying 30-50% of their income on rent, and prices go up by 50%, as you suggest, they cannot possibly afford the jump--you'll turn over the entire building at once. But that's just me making a personal choice. Maybe it's why I don't own an apartment building? (haha)

Back on topic-- can I infer from your post that you and all the folks who thanked you are cool with slip prices jumping by 64% in a single year?

Maybe not so much 'cool' as 'accepting' or 'resigned'.

I think the difference is pricing between a basic commodity and a luxury.
People need a place to live... they don't need a boat.

Every investment has risks. When a realtor tries to sell you home with the idea that it is an income property were you will live for free while the rentals will cover some or all the bills... you are making an investment in a business, not a shelter for you and your family.

i am storing my boat for the first time when i called it was $40 per foot and few days later i brought it in and it was $45.

details?
 

It would be interesting to know what you get for that price. Indoor? Outdoor? Shrinkwrap? Heated or unheated building? Launch and retrieve? Are you on a trailer? What marina?

Island access is something the Meredith Islands Association has been working on since it's beginning. With the expansion of rental fleets and the general increase in boat sales, the number of available rental slips has decreased. Most marinas are also not taking on new valet customers so access to the islands is becoming more difficult. Trailering to the lake is not an option for many who live far away and parking for a trailer for extended time periods is also limited. Many island properties have been passed down through generations and are not owned by what might consider rich people so increasing costs are putting pressure on many to consider selling. The state and towns have not allowed new marinas or expansion of existing marinas.
All of these factors are creating a bubble of sorts that if it breaks will have a negative impact on both island property owners and the local economy. If you can not reasonably access island property you can't sell it for market value. The price of island property will decrease dramatically as will the tax base of the towns with islands. The effect of a drop in tax base is magnified on a town's budget since an island property only adds to the revenue side of the town's budget, not the expense side, ie. little services, no school children. All of the towns would maintain their fire boats to provide fire protection for mainland homes and businesses that are on the water and sometime difficult for fire apparatus to access. They would also maintain their public launch ramps and parking for the large number of town residents that day boat.
Many will say the islands have been there for a long time and access has always been an issue and yet prices go up and there have always been buyers. That would be a correct statement except the current business model for marinas is to have rental boats available in water which generate 30K of revenue vs 6k for slip rental and to hold slips open so boat buyers can be offered a slip on purchase of a new boat.
The towns and state need to decide if they want tourism and property values to continue to increase or have it stagnate and possibly decline due to people feeling it is just too much trouble to have an island property on the lake. If they are fine with the status quo ok. If not than they need to allow for expansion of existing marinas or creation of new marinas on the lake, and expansion of town provided parking and docking to ease island access.

I wish Meredith valued islanders as much as Gilford does. When I was an islander in Gilford having full use of Glendale was a huge benefit. Although we are on Bear now, we are still Gilford taxpayers for another property so we still have partial use of the facility (car parking and launch privileges but no island only dock use).

We bought a slip a few years ago because of the growing uncertainty of slip availability. I highly recommend others do the same. Rental slips always seem to pop up out there though.

As mentioned by bilproject, those who have an island camp that has been passed down may have difficulty buying a mainland slip.
Some in Gilford rely 100% on Glendale and it is very busy on weekends. Also Gilford has three full service marinas as well as three condo slip operations. Many of the condo slips are rentals.
Island residents can get together and develop their own facility (e.g. Diamond Island, and I think, Rattlesnake).
There are group solutions but probably nothing that can be accomplished in just one season.

And then there's this! :D

https://winnipesaukee.com/forums/vbc...do=ad&id=12186

$15k for a the season? It had better come with a boat to use!

I have 3 slips, I'd happily rent them if they are bringing that much!

WOW! Just WOW! I would doubt they will get anywhere near that. I have a 54 foot slip in Laconia that I rent out for less than half that amount. Maybe I am the dummy!

The tourism card isn't going to hold much water. If a magic wand was waved and no one was allowed to own any property on any island that was not accessible by road, I doubt that it would have more than a modest impact.
The number of people staying on the non-access islands is small relative to the number of people in the area during those summer months. They are just as likely to eat at the home as someone staying on the mainland... and many on the mainland do not have children. Property values are also a double edged sword... high property values can lead to low rates - a positive perception - but they can also make residents feel left out and disconnected.

I think a better argument is that it would change the social dynamics creating a loss of heritage. Residents, at least from my perception, tend toward nostalgia of simpler times.

I got this email from Lake Winni Association

This is state wide. But still, we know where most of them went.

We know increased demand causes price inflation, but I just do not see how you lower demand in that case.

Agreed, we have been boating on Winni for many years and laughed at the purchase of a slip for many years, 2 years ago the handwriting was clearly on the wall, buy a slip or perhaps have no slip. For those who haven't noticed several Marina's over the past few years have tossed renters for space for new boat sales.
Now, the cost of slips has risen sharply many in excess of a 100K, on Lake Sunpaee they sell for over 250K.
Supply and Demand, that is applicable to buying or renting, as the saying goes you must pay to play and boating isn't for the financially challenged.

No wonder it's gotten so scary out there!

Must be I'm missing something. A 36' slip at MVYC is probably half that amount, depending on bulkhead or finger dock, and it includes winter storage. One can argue about the various amentias at YC's all around the lake, and which is "premier".

Someone dreaming...Nobody will pay that. Even the unlimited length and width slips aren't bringing that. I am not sure who owns it but wonder if its the same person that wants $168k to sell one. None have ever gone close to that in GYC.

I had a boat at Gilford Yacht Club a long time ago and I have been there several times in recent years. I owned a slip at Mountain View for over 20 years. Mountain View is by far superior for everything from the beaches to the view.

But, if you are trying to get $15,000 for a season you have to say something to make people think it is worth it. It's all about marketing!

54' slip?
 

Let me know when it's available. Maybe I'll get a bigger boat. LOL

Newbie
 

Newbie to the forum but thought I would chirp in. Paying $10,300 for my slip this year. Just to give a prospective of prices out there. This is for a 30 ft sea ray, no amenities. Just happy to have a spot, in scheme of things it isn't a lot compared to the rest of boating, but yeah wish it was cheaper, wish boating in general was less expensive but you know what they...

..... paddle a SUP: no big-money boat slip needed!
 

Ok, so's just a little off-topic, here, but still on-topic, here, on the high, high, high price for your boat slip at a marina! ..... :laugh:

How to beat the high price for a boat slip and still hit the Lake Winnipesaukee, big lake, waters. Don't want to pay the big bucks for a boat slip, but still want to hit the waters in/on beautiful Lake Winnipesaukee!

Well ...... did you know that a stand-up paddle board is considered by the U.S. Coast Guard to be a paddle "vessel" just like a 30' Sea Ray for example is a "vessel", and is a low price vessel for hitting this big lake, Lake Winnipesaukee.

All you need is a roof rack on your car and it costs $2.00, 8-quarters/hours, to park, unload, and launch your sup from a paid parking spot at the beach parking lot at Weirs Beach, on the Weirs channel, and very close to the open water and outer swim rope, out front the swim area and over towards the Mount Washington cruise vessel at the sandy beach at Weirs Beach. ...... :D:banana::D

Is even cheaper at $1.00, 4-quarters/hour when you park it a short distance away at a parking space on the nearby Lakeside Ave. So ..... one dollar/hour or even two dollar/hours is way, way, way cheaper than a boat slip at a marina ...... plus the sup is a great paddle and balance, aerobic workout and a good way to keep from getting too FAT because it involves exercise while YOU is out in a vessel on the big lake, sharing the water with all the other vessels, out there. .... :laugh:

Welcome to the CForums
 

Welcome, searaylife.
I'm curious where your slip is, if it is for the season or 12 months? One just came on the market at MVYC for $170K. B14, I heard.

Thanks

I would rather not say where, maybe they read this forum and didn't want it posted. I really am happy to have the slip. It is perfect for me. I am able to use the slip for the summer I don't have much use for it in the winter. 😂 It does not include winterizing if that is what you mean.

Thanks for pointing that out, I have no interest in a condo slip, buy it and keep paying fees, dealing with HOAs, their costs and all that fun.

I wouldn't be so quick to reject the idea of a condo slip. I had a slip at Mountain View for over 20 years. When I didn't need it anymore I rented it out because it was in a great location, out front between Mountain View and Silver Sands, backed up to the beach.

The taxes were in the $1,000 neighborhood and the condo fee was $2,000. $3,000 per year looks like a bargain now based on today's slip rental prices. And, no additional cost for winter storage was a part of that. Once you own a slip you will always have access to it if you choose to use it.

I had a 34 foot boat in it (37 OAL) with a 12.5 foot beam. At this time renting a slip for that would probably run somewhere above $8,000. In my opinion, if you plan on boating on the lake for the foreseeable future, and you can do it, owning a slip is well worth it.

Well said. In other threads, it appears winter storage can be several thousand dollars, so year round is a big bonus.

Just wondering for comparison purposes the going rate per linear foot is this coming season around the lake.

Any information would be greatly appreciated


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Mine is priced by the slip, the size of my boat I don't think matters, the slip was said to hold a 32 ft boat, max 11 ft wide. So depending on how you wanna look at it I am paying roughly 340 or 320. I think that is why companies/people rent by the slip not the foot, they would be leaving money on table potentially. So I guess I am saying by the foot doesn't really matter. I should mention I am not new to the lake and renting/owning slips, just the forum. 😊

Most marinas here on the lake charge by the foot, but in your case which Marina are you located and what do they charge for your slip, if you don’t mind.

My reason for this is I am on an advisory board of an HOA and we are compiling some information for our members.


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Many places on the lake do charge by the slip, not by the foot. Whatever fits, without your boat being a hazard to navigation or within the listed limits for the slip, is usually OK.

If you go to the ocean, it is usually by the foot. I have stayed in Oak Bluffs, Martha's Vineyard many times. They charge by the foot, with a 30 foot minimum. A lot of places will rent you the slip with added fees if you want power or cable.

Exactly right, the ocean is generally by the ft. I was more answering Joey's questions because the lake is more by the slip not the foot. Sorry I was not clear. Yeah as I am sure you all know, definitely pay more for somethings on the ocean even fresh water.

My docking experience
 

My docking experience is this.

Parker Marine did "boat area", L X W. (Yeah, I know) essentially length.

West Alton was LOA, and for the type slip I had, minimum length 20 ft. .25 ft was 25 X $$$/ ft. A 19 ft was 20 X $$$/ ft.

One year at a private dock in Smith Cove was $$$ for the season, max length 20 ft.


Dave

Services?
 

Rates depend a lot on what you're offering. Electrical hook ups? Wi-Fi? Bath House? This is a tough thing to quantify. Big boats? Little Boats? Etc. My guess is, as an HOA, mostly runabouts, no services. You need to let us know what you're really trying to compare. When I owned a condo, the dock was included, no servicers. Period. I was an early owner so I got to pick the place I wanted that fit my boat. Others took their place in line. The slips were all "about the same size" so no reason to differentiate by boat size.

Anyone know of slips available in Wolfeboro?
 

Anyone know of slips available in Wolfeboro? I tried Goodhue nothing..

The $15k slip is now down to $7500 and still not rented.

We've had a couple marketplace posts here for slips, one of which never responded to me—I've gotta think that was a last-ditch effort by a non-forum-member looking for any place to potentially rent.

The crash is near, methinks, so y'all please keep an eye out for a used '20-'22 Sea-Doo GTX170 someone bought and can no longer afford for me?!

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So basically you're ok with price gouging.

Not sure who you're referring to here...Gouging to me applies to necessities, toilet paper and baby formula. Even islanders can get to/from without a boat slip as they did decades ago before they even owned power boats. So, slips are very desirable, but not a necessity and owners charge what the market will bear. In a few years, you'll see some go up for auction as we did in 2010. Whether boat slips or housing, renters are in a difficult spot. Cost of buying is very high, cost of renting is very high. Recession is coming and we'll all be poor, and happy with lower prices.

Wait...What???
 

Blasphemer!!! :)

My Smith Cove experience
 

I have been renting the same finger pier on Smith Cove for 20-some years and have rented it from 3 different owners. Each based the rent on the length of the boat, but they never stated a max length. However, I'm sure they'd balk at anything much longer the 24 feet because it would crowd out the other boats.

Slip rental - Wolfeboro
 

You might have to start looking for a slip for 2023 now.

No. Just Old New Hampshire.
Boating was more noticeable from people that came here from elsewhere.