Will Your Next Car Be an Old One?
 

● With "The Grid" likely failure to "keep up", is an older car in your future? (The day after California banned fossil-fuel cars, California issued warnings to not charge your EV cars between 4-9PM ! ) :rolleye1:
● With 8.3% inflation, wouldn't a collector's car make financial sense? (In the past, antiques and collectable artwork was the answer to inflation).

● With China manipulating currency, wouldn't a "handy hedge"--that you can drive--make sense?

This morning, two articles appeared relevant to these questions.

1) A humble well-used VW 1988 VW pickup truck sold for $100,000. :eek:

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/s...ad-200107.html

2) Cars from the 60s-onwards are soaring in value. (I already own three of them--two from the mid-60s--another is a 71).

https://www.hotcars.com/everyday-ame...worth-fortune/ (with another link to collectable "hot" cars from overseas).

✔ A video of an EV motorscooter parked inside a house--just inside sliding doors to the porch--shows how difficult it is to approach such a fire.

✔ Last month, a fire in a parking garage near a grouping of motorscooters caused 11 deaths!

✔ It can take 28,000 gallons of water to put out an EV fire. (EV fires must be cooled, as they supply their own oxygen).

✔ Insurors and condominiums are studying ways to distance charging stations away from structures. (EVs being fire hazards).

I have zero interest in a modern car. I travel a fair amount so rent cars a lot. The touch screen stuff is flat out dangerous and over complicates the simple thing of adjusting the radio or the heater without losing focus on the road.

A few years ago I had no idea that cars shutting off at a stop was a thing. My first exposure to it was while in jammed up traffic on the george washington bridge. Such a stupid idea. Sure the car starts right away, but what if it doesn't and what happens when the car has 100,000 miles and is a little sluggish to fire up. Lunacy

Engines and the mechanical part of most cars from the last decade are reliable and last far longer than cars of old but the electronics are the killer. Diagnosing electrical faults can take hours or days and can get so expensive it's not worth doing. My friends car was totaled after a very minor accident because of the cost of replacing the air bags. the sheet metal damage was almost nothing.

I am a software developer and from that perspective I don't trust most of it and find it poorly designed and overly complicated for the user side.

Just bought a slightly used 2021 pickup. Love tech, get every bell and whistle I can.

I like older vehicles more from a mechanical interest than anything else. As jbolty just said the newer vehicles are light years ahead in reliability, with the caveat of the electronics. I buy extended warranties mostly because of the electronics.

In case this comes as a surprise, gasoline vehicles start on fire occasionally too.

My wife and I took a Ford Escape for a test drive a few years back. We pulled out of one end of the dealership and pulled back in the other—less than 1/10th of a mile—because we couldn't figure out how to turn the radio down. It was so complicated!

Give me a Gen 5 4Runner: 10-year history of reliability and ultra-simple everything.

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I just bought a new car in April so with any luck I won’t be in the market for a new car any time soon, but as long as my finances permit it I will 100% buy new with all the safety and other features that come with that.

That said, in my opinion car manufacturers put too many functions in the screens. Often a good old fashioned button or knob is superior.


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Once you've tried electric, you really can't go back to slower, rougher, noisier.

Great new EVs available from Ford, VW, Nissan, Kia, Chevy; and they're more affordable than most folks think, especially after incentives and gas savings

Nonsense. I've driven much faster, smoother, and quieter cars than my 4Runner, but nothing's been even remotely close to its utility and overall usefulness and, as a result, overall joy of ownership.

People put louder exhausts on their machines on purpose and a host of manufacturers inject exhaust/engine noise into their audio systems to mimic bigger engines because electric is blech.

If someone made an electric 4Runner or reasonably priced truck, I might consider it, but I don't think anything but commuter cars are close.

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I want to hear about someone driving an EV from The Lakes Region, NH to Florida. Or cross-country. Share the experience!

World Events May Seal Maverick's End...
 

I'm looking at a year-2006 BMW "Z" sports car/hatchback. Good ones are in the teen$, and they're climbing in value. The most expensive examples are "delete" of electronics. :look:

I'm open to other makes and models, but I don't want an ignition key that can be "hacked"--or when a replacement key is needed--to not cost $500. :eek:

I've been watching Ford Maverick pickup trucks but production is being "paused", since Ford can't find chips anywhere. :rolleye2:

It will be a while before I replace this one.
2016 with less than 53,000 miles that I have owned from day one.
It will be most likely replaced with a new Accent or Elantra based on what is in effect at that time.

This one has shiftronic, but I expect the next will have CVT, as I don't think they make the shiftronic version any more.

The only issues that I have had are brakes and exhaust wearing out over the years that I own them. I think that may be due to the salt on the roads. Brakes we tend to do in the yard (our own shop if too cold) and exhaust depends on what part needs replacement.

California's effect is more on the manufacturers. California residents/business/government buy a lot of vehicles. The State also has about 1.75M b/d of refining capacity.

I guess I should have added "to a comparable gas vehicle.." 4Runner is a great vehicle, and I don't think there is a an EV equivalent yet. Someday, when you try one, I think you'll like it.

I haven't driven any car that far since 1985, so I'm not sure that's meaningful.
My longest EV trip was just a few hundred miles, and I charged the car while eating lunch so there was no incremental time.

Here's a guy who did 2700 miles https://cleantechnica.com/2021/04/14...-ev-road-trip/

I have a 2022 Lincoln Aviator. As an "older" person the electronic features are a learning experience and continue to frustrate me.

I disabled all the "lane keeping" features. I don't want it to vibrate the wheel or auto correct if I choose to fade to the left or right of a lane.

The back up safety feature was on and when I tried to back up a trailer it repeatedly slammed on the brakes. It was so sudden and abrupt that I got out of the car to look and see what I hit.

On a recent long ride a screen kept popping up with a cup of coffee telling me to take a rest.

A few times with the cruise control on when I changed lanes a screen said "trailer swerving, cruise disabled, slow down". It also disabled the cruise control and the accelerator for a short time.

That is actually how people get into trouble and jacknife trailers. When it swerves, if it is safe to do so, you should be accelerating to pull it back to straight. If you step on the brakes it will only swerve more.

Audi e-tron
 

My experience was a disaster! It's fine if you stay close to home.
Audi lent me an e-tron to showcase at last year's Longroof Rally. Picked up vehicle in Hartford CT and drove to Lime Rock CT. to start the rally. Lime Rock has charging stations. We had a slow start as the rally was waiting for the e-Tron to fully charge for the trip to Stratton VT. I told the rally to head out without me as I had to recharge at the closest station I could find near Stratton in Bennington VT.
Arrive in Stratton a couple of hours late due to charging. The rally was staying overnight so it's really not a big deal. The e-Tron was a nice vehicle for travel but I miss the engine noise and the stick. I'm a stick fanatic.
Spent a half hour online trying to find charging stations between Stratton and Jay Peak. Burlington VT was my best bet. I would have to fully charge in Burlington so I can get to Jay Peak and return to Burlington. The rally would need to continue without me. I met up an hour later at Jay Peak. Again an overnighter before heading out to Saddleback Me.
This is where I had to turn back. No charging stations between Jay Peak and Saddleback. The rally continues on without me.
During this transition from gas to electric, I'm going to stick with gas until there are enough charging stations for a meaningful trip. Also, the time to fully charge a vehicle needs to be addressed. An electric vehicle would never win a rally!
BTW the missus won the rally in my 2005 MB wagon. MBs are bulletproof!

Old cars
 

I would love my next car to be old - I'm thinking a 1950s Powerwagon:)

Bummer. I agree that an EV owner needs to understand the charging situation for his particular car. Every owner should get a home charger for their garage or driveway. Tesla has "Superchargers" every 50 miles or so, pretty much everywhere, they will add range at a super fast rate (up to 400 miles/hour), and they are located next to food, so on the occasions when your trip is hundreds of miles, you can get what you need while eating lunch or drinking a cup of coffee. Road trips are easy, and I definitely spend less time charging than I spent buying gas every week or two. But I do not know about highway charging for other brands.

Also a bummer about the stick situation. My last of several sticks was 2001, could not find one after that...

An awesome car! Very rare, almost everyone bought the roadster. I'm pretty sure you can turn off the stability control on all of them.

Sadly, I think the ignition key would be $500. Key to the economics of an old BMW is an experienced non-dealer mechanic. There appears to be a guy in Holderness

Who owns these charging stations? DO they charge $ for the charge? What is the average range in distance between charges? How long does a charge take?

Just recently purchased my 5th...(# 5).. 4-Runner. Will buy nothing other than it. Had to settle on a Certified used one with 14K miles since new ones were very hard to find. I understand, from reading the net, that there MAY be a hybrid 4Runner coming in the next model year. If so, sign me up as long as it has the same performance features like 4 wheel drive and sound trailer pulling. Not interested in any full EV and it seems Toyota is not overreacting to the EV stuff. BTW, will keep watching the market and may buy the 6th one BEFORE all the nonsense of full EV captures the market.

They're Out There!
 

You've got 24 hours to bid on one! :)

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...power-wagon-7/

:look:

Yes, very rare. People are fighting over colors! Their favorite is the glowing Malaga Blue.

My retiring experienced-non-dealer-mechanic says not to buy anything since 1991. :rolleye2:

EDIT: I just checked again: They're fighting over Montego Blue, and paying almost double "book" price!

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...upe-6-speed-3/

IF I get one ;) I'll return to the track and try to catch those Porsche GT3s! :)

I was thinking about a pickup and thought I might as well look at electric. After reading some articles it appeared that I was going to get 75 - 80 miles a charge towing my 4K lb boat. Not quite enough to get from home to the lake so it would turn a 2 hr trip into a 4 - 5 hr trip w/charging. Not some thing I’m ready for.

And for the person who said chargers are everywhere. Not yet their not. If you go off highway into the hinterlands you sometimes need to go 20, 30, or more miles out of your way to find one based on some of the long term tests I’ve read.

So, when they come out with a reasonably priced electric pickup with 200 - 300 miles of towing range and more charging stations, I’m in but, that’s probably several years off.


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On the pickup, the problem is with "reasonably priced". Recent models, not that you can even get them yet, will tow further than that, but the prices are extremely high.

You are right, we've got a ways to go with charging stations being common enough, like gas stations, to make finding them less of a challenge. I'm definitely interested in an electric car but it would be 95% used for days where I didn't have to charge anyplace but home. With even lower priced models getting easily over 200 mile range now that's most days for most of us.

Tesla owns the Tesla charging stations. There are several third parties that own chargers for non-Teslas.

I bought my car 5.5 years ago when they were still including free charging for life, so I may not be fully up to date, but think the cost of electricity per mile is about 1/3 the cost of gasoline.

Understandable--during the 90s and 00s, BMW was adding electronics steadily. They moved away from being a car for great drivers towards a car that drove great for everybody. So the old guard has always maintained that the new cars were not as good as the previous. (Obviously, this is a matter of preference) Porsche 911 is the same in this regard, yes?

That would be perfect!

If only...
 

Back in high school in the 1980s, I had friends with a 1965 GTO, 1962 Corvair, 1970 something Camaro, 1967 Firebird, a couple of VW Bug and a microbus, a BMW 2002, an International Scout, a Barracuda, and more. To have any of those today...

Today everything is electronics - and the screens are way too big. I am more confused by them and long for good old fashion knobs, dials, and switches.

There's a Car Show podcast with Malcolm Gladwell discussing the "last best sports sedan," the BMW M5.

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I think perhaps less so with 911's. The engine improvements were hard to ignore, and never became any less of a driver's car, at least into the 2010's. Not that there isn't, for every brand, a group that longs for the simple old days but I'm not sure that's a majority.

I think about getting an older car at times, '60's/70's era pickup or 70's muscle car. But if I ever do it will be modified, modern brakes, upgraded suspension, a/c, good stereo with bluetooth. I do get it when people want to keep things original though.

Call Ahead...
 

It's especially important nowadays to call ahead--USA and Canada:

https://insideevs.com/news/566070/te...es-cut-stolen/

I can't speak to this. My last Porsche drives were a new rental 1984 Porsche 911 at Nürburgring, and a new 911 Turbo I was tasked to "ferry" 5000 miles to a 1988 competition event. (The owner graciously let me compete in the same event, and came within one-tenth of a second of his time). In ten days, we'd worn-out all four of his new tires!

My two 914/6s had "enough electronics" in 1971... :cool:

My first car was a 1957 Willy's Jeep. Driver's wiper was run by vacuum, passenger was a hand crank. No radio. Manual choke and throttle. About as spartan as it can get. Not exactly your 914's, but I get it.:) Had so much fun in that Jeep!

I am in no way ready for an EV. The battery technology isn't there yet. I am more of a horsepower guy. I don't buy for gas mileage, its never been a concern for me. I drive a 3/4 ton Ram megacab or a 2022 Escalade ESV as my daily commuters, which now is 45 minutes each way as we moved to Gilford 2 weeks ago from Dover.

My next vehicle will be a Ram TRX. 702hp, awd and fun as hell.

My wife's dream is a 1954 Ford F100 pickup, just like the red Hallmark christmas truck.:rolleye2:

I'm with you - no EV's for me. I love fossil fuels, and have zero intention of ever buying into this EV nonsense. I'll buy a horse and buggy if gasoline powered vehicles become a thing of the past.

On the other hand, for those of you that love the EV world, you can now buy an electric pontoon boat. 23 MPH top speed, with a range of 26 miles. Hold on to your hat, Helen!

https://www.purewatercraft.com/produ...-pontoon-boat/

But Inflation-Proof...! Overdrive Available...
 

Today, a nice red 1954 Ford F100 pickup is a $25,000 dream. ;)

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1954-ford-f-100/

I am about to buy a 50s Willys wagon or a pickup.

Regarding newer, I am keeping my 99 F250 diesel with 6 speed but am going to buy a new pickup to replace my daily driver (2011 MB E350 4matic)- will go with a F150 Powerboost (3.5 ecoboost hybrid) with built in 7.2KW generator

Yes--suspension and brakes are amazing today compared to the 70s, and it's very easy to forget that until you drive an old car. I loved the original Charger, and their remake looks great, though I have not driven one. Dodge is rolling out electric versions in another year or two with the goal of keeping the spirit of gas muscle cars

Smart. Real smart. My hat is off to you.

I think he's messing with you.

How could anyone not live fossil fuels? They revolutionized industry and this the world. Plus they’re necessary to produce electricity! [emoji123][emoji3]


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Corrections: love and thus. Sorry.


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I’m not messing with anyone. I stated my opinion, and got a snide remark in return. That’s what happens on here when someone doesn’t march in lock-step with virtual signaling lifestyles and positions that others push.

I thought about getting a Challenger for a while, was looking at 3-6 year old ones, only interested in the 6.4. I test drove a few, ended up deciding on something else. But .... After driving a 6.4 powered SRT, I stopped and literally sat there thinking about how far the tech/engineering has come. 475 hp in a naturally aspirated V8 that idles completely smoothly, you could drive it all day in comfort on the highway, yet is so powerful that coming out of 2nd gear you realize you have to let off or get a ticket. I'd love a '60's/'70's Challenger and the sound and power and feel would be awesome, but you still have to admire what they've been able to do with modern cars.

Kind of like that electric powered seaplane ... not going to happen in our lifetime. :)

I get it. I love fossil fuel too, that's why I have a ski boat and others, powerful truck to plow and tow with, sports car for fun. But I still am intrigued by EV vehicles. I'll own one in the not too distant future, the tech is pretty cool plus for me, not suggesting everyone has to agree or feel this way, I would feel better with some of my 30,000 miles/year of driving being in an EV rather than gas or diesel.

I'd love to catch a ride with you some day, another thing about fossil fuel I love is the sound of engines and hearing a seaplane start up and take off puts a smile on my face!

That will all be replaced with hydrogen.

OPEC+ is proposing to cut 2M b/d out of production.

"Hydrogen 7"...
 

BMW began production fourteen years ago using their standard 12-cylinder V-12 engine in their most luxurious 4-door sedan, the 760
--Wikipedia

The plane will also though.

Can the power grid handle all the electric vehicles we buy in the next few years?

Yes.

The grid is well-equipped to supply energy to EVs at current adoption levels. Over 2.7 million plug-in hybrid and full battery-electric cars and light trucks were sold in the United States by the end of 2021, with the majority of those still on the road.

Begin a thread with an opinion ? LINK

''Sure, when the next electric car rolls onto a neighborhood block already filled with electric cars or a transit agency plans to roll out half dozen electric buses at the depot, the local utility may need to upgrade a local transformer or add extra distribution wires."

Whoops.

''The addition of new transportation and building electrification loads as part of deep decarbonization efforts will shift the grid to a winter-peaking system and require changes to planning processes, the ISO said.

A deep decarbonization scenario with heavy renewable penetration and large electrification load results in the region’s grid “moving to a winter peaking grid, with reliability hours in the pre-dawn winter morning in addition to the evening. As the region transitions, reliability assessments will need to be conducted on a 12-month basis instead of seasonally,” the report said.''

ISO-NE expects the grid to have to be massively upgraded over the next decade. It isn't just vehicles, it is space heating and accompanying water heating.

California uses a billion gallons of gas per month. I'm sure someone smarter than me can do the math to figure out how much electricity it will take to replace that much energy but I'm guessing it's a lot. Meanwhile there is no plan or any activity going on in CA right now to expand generation or distribution of power at that scale and even a ramp up means start now since a power plant takes a decade to get built. They are already not able to keep the lights on dependably. The options are the ones pushing this in government are morons or the real plan is to eliminate private cars.


Oh, and they want to ban gas cooking and heating too.

San Francisco has banned gas appliances from all new construction. I will never live with an electric kitchen.

Gas autos will be banned in 2035. Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E) warns CA residents about electric shut-offs during high winds and overloading the grid during high A/C demands.

When Gavin Newsom comes campaigning in New Hampshire with promises of making all states like Calicornucopia, carefully parse every syllable. The morons have plans not well thought out.

This is from March---a $3 billion before the latest announcements
https://www.edison.com/home/innovati...ia-edison.html

And this more recent site from Edison has a link to the plan for 2045 needs
https://www.edison.com/home/innovati...ia-edison.html

Maybe now you want to move the goalposts and tell us the utilities won't deliver on the plans you said did not exist?

FlyingScot, looks like you posted the same link twice, maybe you can add the one you meant to send.

There are 2 separate infrastructures that need to be updated. One is the electric grid, the other is the natural gas delivery pipelines. I know the comments above were California centric, but they make a good point that applies elsewhere. We can't power more cars, more ductless split HVAC systems, and accommodate more renewable energy sources without upgrading the grid. We know there is a problem in CA. We know there is a problem in TX. The truth is the problem is country wide. NG as well, because you can't bring more power plants on line if you can't fuel them, the winter load on the northeast natural gas delivery pipelines is pretty close to 100% of capacity.

Drug Addiction and Common-Criminality Affects Charging Stations...
 

If they're so good, why must taxpayers subsidize them?

Did you click on my link below that shows brand-new California charging stations are being robbed of every charging cable? :eek:

So far, their roofs haven't been carried away. :rolleye2: