Boston Globe Article
 

I have not been in Lake water for about a year, I miss it and could not ever imagine not being able to plunge.
Front page news felt like a bomb going off.

What are you talking about?

Outside of Rockingham County, not many people read the Boston Globe. Perhaps a hint? No links- they have a pay wall.

The online link to "today's paper" has the second article on Lake Winni:

NH upgraded a bunch of laws in January.
I think it will take time to see any results from those.

I'm not aware of any new state laws that will help with the cyanobacteria situation, and I watch pretty closely. We need to push our towns and the state to enforce development codes near the lake, maintain septic systems, get rid of phosphorous fertilizer, and invest in projects to reduce runoff into the lake. Lake Winnipesaukee Alliance is doing all those things, but everybody has to help or, as the article says, we'll lose the lake

Very well said. Septic systems are a huge part of the problem in my opinion and a lot times the only time they get looked at is when a home sells.

HB1113 and HB1139 for septic systems.
HB1293-FN for the fertilizer.

Also this was in the budget bill HB2:

485-A:61 Cyanobacteria Mitigation Loan and Grant Fund Established. There is hereby established in the department of environmental services the cyanobacteria mitigation loan and grant fund which shall be maintained by the state treasurer in distinct and separate custody from all other funds. The state treasurer may invest the fund in accordance with RSA 6:8. Any earnings on fund moneys shall be added to the fund. All moneys in the fund shall be nonlapsing and continually appropriated to the department of environmental services. The cyanobacteria mitigation loan and grant fund shall be used to fund loans, grants, and reimbursements in accordance with this subdivision. Funds from any bond proceeds, grants, loan repayments, legislative appropriations, donations, "Love NH Lakes" number plates under RSA 261:97-g and RSA 261:97-i, and other funds shall be credited to this fund.

168 Water Management and Protection; Water Pollution and Waste Disposal; Sewage Disposal Systems; Fees. Amend RSA 485-A:30 to read as follows:

485-A:30 Fees.

I. Any person submitting plans and specifications for a subdivision of land shall pay to the department a fee of [$300] $450 per lot. Said fee shall be for reviewing such plans and specifications and making site inspections. Any person submitting plans and specifications or an application for a permit by rule as provided in RSA 485-A:33, IV for sewage or waste disposal systems shall pay to the department a fee of [$290] $450 for each system. Said fee shall be for reviewing such plans and specifications or application for permit by rule, making site inspections, the administration of sludge and septage management programs, and establishing a system for electronic permitting for waste disposal systems, subdivision plans, and permits and approvals under the department's land regulation authority. The fees required by this paragraph shall be paid at the time said plans and specifications or application for permit by rule are submitted and shall be deposited in the subsurface systems fund established in paragraph I-b. For the purposes of this paragraph, the term "lot" shall not include tent sites or travel trailer sites in recreational parks which are operated on a seasonal basis for not more than 9 months per year.

I-a. In addition to fees required under paragraph I, any person submitting plans and specifications or an application for a permit by rule as provided in RSA 485-A:33, IV for sewage or waste disposal systems shall pay to the department a fee of [$10] $25 for each system for use in the septage handling and treatment facilities grant program to municipalities under RSA 486:3, III. The fees required by this paragraph shall be paid at the time said plans and specifications or application for permit by rule are submitted and shall be deposited in the septage management fund established in paragraph I-c.

I-b. The fees collected under paragraph I shall be deposited in the water resources fund established in RSA 482-A:3, III for the purpose of paying all costs and salaries associated with the subsurface systems program and other land resources management programs.

I-c. There is hereby established the septage management fund into which the fees collected under paragraph I-a shall be deposited. The fund shall be a separate, nonlapsing fund, continually appropriated to the department for the purpose of paying costs associated with the septage handling and treatment facilities grant program or for research, engineering analysis, or septage sampling and analysis by the department to advance septage management in the state of New Hampshire.

What's really, REALLY crazy to me is everytime sentiments like this get posted on the iboat Winnipesaukee Facebook page, there are more comments attacking the posters/"hippies"/"Karens" than supporters of the lake.

This shouldn't be political given the clear source of the issues, but it totally is.

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How does this impact building on lots that are on municipal sewer?

If the fee is paid with every application, do they refund your money if the building or project is rejected for other reasons, say zoning?

Both good. But both small compared to the problem

There is probably a lot more than I posted as HB2 is a catch-all in the budget for changes in costs.

Anything that can be done hopefully helps. IMO there are all kinds of issues the point to the problem but in reality there’s just to many people, development in the form of houses as well as commercialization, runoff and to many boats etc enjoying the lake. You can only wash so many dishes in the dish pan before the water gets dirty.

If people would have payed a little more attention to NITROVANDAM on 6/21/19's thread about " Moving out of New Hampshire " Lake pollution (Fertilizer ) was one of his concerns, However he called it in 2019 and all it turned out to be was everyone calling him a " Karen " . If people would have just listen then, Maybe, just maybe the Lake would not be in this condition.


Nitrovandam, must have seen the Lake from a different perspective.



This was written June 21, 2019


Moving out of New Hampshire.
Just want to Thank all of you out of Stater's for coming up here and ruining this once great State we once had. Thank you for bringing up you Crap political believes and changing the State from Red to Blue. Thank you for your ****ty attitudes and bad driving skills. Thank you for you Phoney love for people, and please keep the attitude of " as long as I am not inconvenienced, everything is good ". Thank you for ruining Winnie with a speed limit. Thank you for polluting it with all the Lawn fertilizers and claiming ' It's not ME ". Thank you for Driving prices thru the roof, You guys are awesome. Just wish you'd have stayed in your own state and continued to bring it all the way down the toilet. Trust me when I say, Local's, Really don't and never did want you here.

Anyone that writes something like this, all I can say is, I'm glad he left.
That's not someone I want to associate with, JMO. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
I've only blocked 2 or 3 people on this forum and he was one of them. He sent me a nasty PM.

Were you one of the people he was referring to? I noticed you mention Waltham.

I live in Ma and have a home on Waukewan. I don't have a McMansion and I bought on Waukewan because I like the cleaner quieter lake. I've been coming up to the lakes region for over 50 years and have owned 3 homes up here over that time.
Just because I live in Waltham is no reason to send me a trashy PM! If you don't like my views or posts, block me, but don't send me a trashy PM.
I do my part to be part of the solution not part of the problem.
I feel bad for his new neighbors, wherever he moved too!
IMO, he made NH a better place by moving out!

Boston Globe
 

I did not intend to turn this into a **** sling. I absolutely disdain the Boston Globe and its ideology, chief thundercloud likes the paper so we still get it. I was a kid when my family owned property on the lake in West Alton wicked early 60's . By the time my uncle sold in 2008 water quality to the untrained seemed visibly different. My initial foray was a thread on crayfish many years ago. I hope we can turn it around. Look what they did for the Merrimack. It will always be pristine to me!

I think it will be education and enforcement at the retail levels.

Scotts Starter for 5000 square feet is 15lbs.
So roughly administering 3lbs per 1000 square feet.

It has an advertised N-P-K of 24-25-4.
So roughly 24% Nitrogen, 25% Phosphorus, 4% Potassium, and 47% inert filler.

3lbs would contain .75 lbs of Phosphorus, if my math is correct.

That would violate the .5 lbs annually allowed by the new law.

Other than new lawn, repair, or one tested and found to be deficient in phosphorus is to use Starter; and the remainder is supposed to be no phosphate.

We also have application restrictions based on conditions.

Not sure how much tighter they could go.

Whoa Pony rider. I didn't send you ANYTHING.. You may reconsider your thoughts. Nitro said it back in 2019, and no one listen then. Now , look what the conversation is.


This was your response to Nitrovandam back in 2019, everybody can scan back and look at your response.

I liken this OP to a terrorist dropping a back pack bomb in a crowd and making a quick exit so as not to get injured in the mayhem. It must be tough going through life with so much hate for his fellow man.

Sounds just like a Liberal describing our President of the United States, Donald J. Trump. I guess you have not changed your stripes. Very Sad...

I didn't say you sent me a trashy PM, that's what he did! He mentioned me living in Waltham in his trashy PM.
At the time I pegged him as just a troll. Forums are full of young kids trolling to get under people's skin and start trouble.
That's exactly what trolls do. He had just joined the forum and came here to light a fire; he had a total of 7 posts. What's sad is people that fall for it.
I stand by what I said, you don't like me or my views then block me!
Anyway, if you can relate to this guy then you should block me because we have absolutely nothing in common.
No need to respond anymore because I won't see it, have a nice day.

Lake Winnipesaukee Alliance had a brochure a year or two ago advising zero phosphorous, the middle number, anywhere near the lake. That's good with me. I think 11 or 12 states have already banned it

Too many people , too many Geese ! If steps are not taken soon the lake is TOAST !

I'm 99.9% sure Tofu and Nitro are the same (miserable) people. The syntax is identical and there's no way anyone would remember Nitro unless they were the same person. Add the mistaken "you," and you've got a forum troll.

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Are you referring to his post at the bottom of the page in the closed section? It's right there for everyone in the world to read. Was he wrong?

General Issues

Moving out of New Hampshire. 6/21/19

Ideas to get rid of people and geese?

The brochure is good. But I don't think widely read.
This new system, once enforced (State sent someone to me, so I know they are checking) should bear greater results.

About two weeks ago, I saw a lake home with artificial turf and a special drainage bed under it. Not sure what that cost, but I found it interesting.

You're probably right, returned after 5 years to light another fire.

Some in our group celebrate Canadian Thanksgiving. Maybe we should serve Canada Goose instead of American Turkey. Same for Boxing Day.

It isn't the eating.
It is the acquiring.

They outlawed hunting in most of the watershed.

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There is no enforcement of fertilizer use. Check out Tuftonboro neck on the broads & entrance to Winter Harbor. There’s no way lawns are that green without nitrogen & phosphorus. The smell is obvious when it’s being applied.


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Non Phosphorus
 

I know the houses you are speaking of but there are a lot of non phosphorus fertilizers out there that work quite well! They could be using one of those could they not??….

Dan

The enforcement of the new law will be at the retailer.

For the most part, we will be able to sell organic fertilizer with higher levels of phosphorus and sell chemical fertilizer with a P-rating of approximately 15 for starter. Turfgrass maintenance chemical fertilizer should be no phosphorus versions.

10-10-10 is common among farmers developing or reclaiming new pasture.

There is no legal status other than the education of when not to apply that will be invoked to the land owner.

If the retail sells 10-10-10, but the landowner applies double the recommended quantity, the law does not cover that; nor does it cover a landowner doing so on established turfgrass.

So all the ''enforcement'' should be at the wholesale/retail level currently.

We could always abdicate our responsibility and blame it on climate change.

Getting rid of geese is easy , people not so ! Perhaps I should have said too much money .

If getting rid of geese was easy they wouldn’t be here lol.

Not sure that too much money is really the issue.
Lawn is pretty basic from a landscaping standpoint.

While a more luxurious landscape usually involves time and money to achieve.
Time and money being somewhat fungible, as the property owner can hire a gardener or choose to invest their own time in achieving the results.

Storm-water runoff is problem #1
 

Watershed research led by the Lake Winnipesaukee Association shows that big storms are the big problem. The damage is done in only 5-6 events a year, when gully-washers act like Mother Nature yanking a giant toilet handle. All the built-up gunk—leaky septics, phosphorus laden fertilizer, leaves, goose (and dog) poop and road salt flush downhill and straight into Lake Winnipesaukee.

Regulations can’t fix the problem – it has to be a community-wide project.

First step is to reduce the buildup by fixing septic systems, skipping the phosphorus fertilizer near the water, keeping 70% of shoreline properties porous and not cutting down trees that move over 100 gallons of water a day into the air.

But, the real solution is based in reducing storm-water runoff by convincing the those water gushes to absorb into the ground.

During the next gully-washer, toss on a raincoat and check the shoreline. If you see water racing to the lake, add a rain garden, small berm, or trench it into the woods so that it soaks in before reaching the lake.

Lakegeezer makes good points about storm water runoff. In many instances, where regulations don't address soil types and slopes the runoff impact may come from 500 or 1000 feet, not the 250' we now pay attention to. Especially in a year like this one where the watershed has been saturated all through the spring, big storms carry a lot of junk into the lakes, all lakes, not just Winnipesaukee.
In the 60's and 70's we built the Winnipesaukee River drainage project bringing sewer to Lake Winnipesaukee's west side and taking it all to the Franklin Wastewater Treatment Facility. Lots of federal funding. A project like this for the east side of Lake Winnipesaukee would be a great bonus for lake water quality.

Center Harbor Sewage dumped in Lake
 

Sewage treatment is important but it doesn't help when your infrastructure fails.

Read the below report and it will give pause.

https://www.centerharbornh.gov/sites...se_1152024.pdf

In addition the town of Wolfeboro added sewer capacity by adding to their existing spray irrigation fields what they called rapid infiltration basins near 19 mile brook. These basins very quickly failed causing nitrate levels to rise in the brook which leads to 19 mile bay.

Center Harbors sewage lagoons are also located above Lake Kanasatka.

It makes one wonder if there is leakage that is escaping notice. Blooms are being noticed in these specific areas.

Idk if it’s still the case but when I went to the Lakes Region Watershed meeting in Wolfeboro it was stated in that meeting the town of Wolfeboro catching basins all along Main Street drained directly into the lake.

Good catch
 

Thanks for pointing this out. The good part is, the system is monitored electronically and the release was caught in short order. Thus, no negative impacts. A failed septic could leach into the lake for an extended time before it is detected.

This is an unfortunate situation in many areas. Combining storm water and sewer water in many instances will overload the ability to handle that volume and the result is overflow into the river or lake. Nationally, there is a "Municipal storm sewer separation system (MS4) requirement to remedy that situation. As you would expect, this is not something that many places can fix quickly or at reasonable expense.

electronic monitoring
 

This particular report said nothing about electronic monitoring. The spill was noticed by a neighboring towns public works director as he happened to be driving home from work. The pump was started the previous day. The pump has a capacity of 300 gallons per minute. When these kinds of pumps start-up it is not uncommon for water hammer to cause a failure at a fitting or break a pipe.
It is entirely possible that the breach occurred at startup which would mean that it could have been flowing for 24 hours or more. This would mean that
400000 to 500000 gallon of untreated sewage flowed directly into Winni. The report also said that this happened previously on November 10th 2023, January 16 2024 and November 4th and 5th of 2024. The scale of this event
is not comparable to a failed septic. Take a look at the photos in the report!

This. And anybody can do this on their property at little/no cost. Another issue is roof run off: boat houses, sheds, etc that are close to the shore should have gutter to direct water away from lakes.

Last year I believe we had several blooms that appeared in Cary Beach area of Wolfeboro and also around 19 mile Bay Area in Tuftonboro. So far I have not seen notice of Cyanobacteria this year. Can’t help but think the good ice cover we had this winter played a part in that, especially with the rain we had May thru early June.

Loose your lawn, geese love to graze on green grass !

Ice Eaters
 

Lose all the ice eaters along the shore and docks and allow the ice form in the winter! It’s a proven fact that without ice the sun causes more weed and algae growth!

Dan

I often wonder about the effect of the ice eaters. My gut says it’s a small part but I’m not an expert. They are annoying though. Some places it’s tough to get onto the ice to fish or snowmobile because of them. I put that directly on the State though. They are to blame for allowing all the permanent docks, boathouses and breakwaters where people use them. Can’t blame the people who have them, it’s legal and they are protecting their assets. Crazy and you still see them being built.

The State Budget gets a lot of revenue from boating.
They just have to be careful what they expense, because we are near a peak.

Easy answer but not too factual.

It is these mcmansion owned by B holes that over fertilize their green lawns.

How about some laws regulating these landscape companies. And what chemicals that these landscape companies dump onto these overly green lawns.

Probably should be laws that every boat put into the lake be monitored. Cost would be quite high. And no one wants more taxes to pay for such.
Each boat that comes from another body of water is bringing any and all contaminants from the previous body of water.

There is a law on lawns.
I posted it in the thread.

Professor: There is a Lake Host program that has run for many years inspecting boats as they move in and out of launch ramps, supported by DES with funds from boat registrations. Some paid staff, some volunteers, managed by NHLAKES. They also run a program to evaluate lake side residences and award a "Lake Smart" certification. Only so much can be done with legislation. One bill this year outlawed dumping (blowing) leaves and yard debris into the lake. How many people really do that if they also want to swim near their home? It's getting pretty small. I think most landscapers who are licensed to apply chemicals are careful. Recall, a few years ago there was a lot of "careless" development and developers just paid the fine and added it onto the bill. To me, if it is really contractors (I'm not so sure) A fine that gets passed on doesn't matter. You really need to impound the back hoes and the chainsaws. The subcontractors know the rules but as long as somebody else pays the fine...
Like many other things, when we pass laws controlling phosphorus for example, a substitute fertilizer comes on the market and the same lawn still looks nice. Storm water runoff with silt and other contaminants is still a problem.
There was a short lived effort some years ago to give "current use status" to undeveloped shorefront lots, especially important for small lakes. The selectmen in the legislature balked because it would reduce tax income from (overdeveloped) lake front land. The governing bodies love to see big homes on the shore with no school children.

Nitrogen is what makes it green.
Even though I don't think I posted that portion, that law covers nitrogen application in another section of it.

The only thing in our fertilizer that isn't currently regulated is the Potassium. Which is generally pretty low on most turfgrass applications, even lower than pasture applications.

One general problem, and not pointing the finger at any one person here, is that there is no silver bullet, there are about a thousand small things that need to be done, a few by each of us. That makes it easy to shrug and say "it isn't me, it's the other guy".

Guys with green lawns say it's the old septic systems; guys with old septic systems say it's the bubblers; guys with bubblers say it's the green lawns....Everyone says the government should do something, and also says the government should leave me alone.

All of the above statements are at least kind of true. But if we want to stop cyanobacteria and this other stuff, all of us need to make some sacrifices

Excellent point.

Mandate that the government do something.
But.
The hate for the government is pervasive by some.

So the needle on that record player is stuck. Going round and round on the same track.

And sadly. The lake gets poisoned.

You missed the rafters are causing it by using the lake as a bathroom.

This.
We are not on Winni but are involved in our lake’s health organization. It is true every little bit helps, run off, fertilizer, etc. Any little bit you can do to protect your lake will help.
Keep in mind: why did you come to the lakes in the first place?!

All individuals concerned about waste water run off and pollution should focus your attention to the Laconia State School project. The current plan is extremely flawed as noted by Laconia Public Works Department just a few weeks ago.


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I see Nate all the time.
He didn't seem overly concerned with it.

Boston Globe Article
 

That’s not what was noted in the LDS news article. Snow melt and where piles of snow will be found was a strong concern of his. Any runoff from the northern end of the property would flood Eastman Rd properties and then overwhelm the original dirt catch basins from the [emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]’s on Eastman Road South that drain into Winnisquam


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The only way these lake health issues can be successfully addressed is via stepped-up governmental intervention, regulation and enforcement. I know this isn't a popular sentiment.

While I don't want the government in my pants (or wallet) any more than anyone else, I just don't see any other way given the scope of effort at hand. Education/grass roots movements are an important part of the effort but IMO reach a relatively small audience and an even smaller audience of people that care enough to do something.

Anything less than outright regulation may be more effective at smaller lakes/communities but not so much at a large lake surrounded by increasing development, countless absentee property owners and a need for quick and coordinated action.

It was brought up at the planning board.

Linked is the documentation...


https://www.laconianh.gov/AgendaCent...0?fileID=51434

Very well said. I’ll add that grass roots and education effort only are heard by those that care and regulation from government is needed. Along with high costly fines for violations.

Last summer's early cyanobacteria warnings came after an almost non-existent ice-in during the 2024 winter. According to what I've read, climate change IS a factor, and we need to address that also. Obviously the issues with fertilizer, poor septic systems, etc can be addressed more immediately. But there's no doubt the recent winters, on the whole, have been warmer making a solid ice-in more rare. We can approach this problem from many levels.

That's a political "hot potato", not something to be discussed here!

Slowing climate change or the aging of the lake is a daunting task.
We live in a world were people no longer relax.

There's nothing political about recognizing what factors are contributing to the increase in cyanobacteria warnings. I mean, is it political to acknowledge that there have been more winters recently with an incomplete or shorter ice-in period? That's just fact. And apparently it contributes to cyanobacteria, along with other factors.

Jeesh.

If the climate never changed, then none of us would be participating in this Winnipesaukee forum. 10,000 years ago, the climate changed, a glacier melted and created Lake Winnipesaukee. Here is an article that describes this:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/boat...3a8814057.html

Now rather than focusing on climate change as the primary cause of the lakeÂ’s current problems (which may or may not be true), your efforts would be much better served to hold the local towns and DES responsible to be better stewards of protecting the lake. Pulling back the curtain on the town of Alton and how they have addressed a major development project in West Alton would be a good start. We used to live there but we now moved to Virginia because of this. People need to wake up and protect the valuable resource called Lake Winnipesaukee.

Completely agree. We should do all we can here and now to try to combat this problem. My point is that we can do several things at once, both short term and long term. Yes, of course the climate has changed over time. But I don't see how anyone can doubt that human pollution of the air has been contributing to more rapid changes than would ordinarily take place. I mean, no-one argues that spewing pollution into bodies of water causes all kind of problems. Why is there an argument about the need to reduce emissions into the atmosphere? Who doesn't want cleaner air? Sorry- I don't get it. But yes, local education and efforts are of crucial importance.

These new projects will not have a dramatic impact on the lake.
Even new lakefront construction is done with tighter regulations than just a few years ago.

This spring when Ctr Harbor Beach was closed due to e coli everybody was posting about people's septic systems running into the lake etc. The Ctr Harbor Fire Dept posted a release saying it wasn't from all that. They said there are no septic systems there, they are all on the pipeline to Franklin.

I think the new law is as far as they are going on septic or lawn fertilizer.

They will keep looking at surface run-off. But the newest development has more of that being figured into the planning stages than we might have done in the past.

Locally, we had an issue for a while, I solved it on my property for the entire neighborhood. Now during a rainstorm, everything drains into my retention pit.

I get the benefit of any excess from my neighbors free.

Nonsense, Mr. Mercier. Perhaps if the various local boards and state agencies actually followed the rules, your statement might be valid, but as someone who lived near a big development project in West Alton I can tell you that the rules were not enforced. As I had mentioned before, anyone who is concerned about the health and wellbeing of Lake Winnipesaukee should take the time to research the project. It was the primary reason we decided to leave Alton. Start asking questions.

There is not going to be septic run-off from the Grimm property down and across the highway into the lake.
There will also not be septic run-off from the LSS property into the lake.

There will also be no phosphate in the fertilizers sold for any turfgrass for either project or to any homeowner per the new law.

The State has been around twice already to verify that signage, and procurement procedures are changing at retail locations.
Just last year, we did not have that law.

More info?
 

For those of us who aren't next door, it would be of interest and helpful to know more about the alleged violations, location, remedies, etc. Were there no protests/questions at the time? What about the local conservation commission? They're usually paying attention. Did you ask them? Local CC's are great protectors for us all.

There were protests in the meetings.
The Grimm's were hoping to do something commercial in a residential area.

They pulled that.

On the Mount recently, we had contractor appreciation night.
We spent some time discussing the original proposal and what we expect will be the new one.

New one is still a guess, but the consensus on the guess is house, barn and orchard.
The consensus guess is about avoiding the need to change the zoning or get abatements.